Wa Alaikum Asselam WarUhmatullah,

It was predicated on your classification of other's position as
"narrow-minded
practitioners". There is only one way of reading the Qur'an - based on
the truth
and not based on an outcome that one desires.

It is human nature to act this way - (Muslims, Christians, and
others). This is no
a popular voting matter. As Muslims, we are required to abide by the
command:

"And let not your hatred of a folk who (once) stopped your going to
the Inviolable Place
of Worship seduce you to transgress; but help ye one another unto
righteousness and pious
duty. Help not one another unto sin and transgression, but keep your
duty to Allah. Lo!
Allah is severe in punishment" - Surah Al-MAidah 2.

"O ye who believe ! Be ye staunch in justice, witnesses for Allah,
even though it be
against yourselves or (your) parents or (your) kindred, whether (the
case be of) a rich
man or a poor man, for Allah is nearer unto both (than ye are) . So
follow not passion
lest ye lapse ( from truth ) and if ye lapse or fall away, then lo!
Allah is ever Informed
of what ye do."- Surah An-Nisa' 135.

I wasn't trying to provide a convincing argument. It is upto you to
actually provide
a convincing evidence supporting your position. I was trying to remind
you of other
relavant texual evidence that your post failed to consider. I did not
assume you knew
about them - I said, "Gilberto seems to have missed". If that was not
the case, why
would you ignore the most cogent evidence given your desired
conclusion is far reaching.

There are many Ayahs in the Qur'an that address the issue. Students of
Ibn Abbas (RadiAllahu 'anhu)
asked him, "Were these not revealed for the Jews and Christians?" He
said, "Subhan Allah! Are all
the glad tidings in the Qur'an for us and all the admonitions for
them? If we do what they did, our
end will be their end."

The Messenegr of Allah (sallalahu 'alayhi wa sallam) said: "You will
follow the wrong
ways, of your predecessors to the extent that if they should go into
the hole of a lizard,
you too will go there." We said, "O Allah's Apostle! Do you mean the
Jews and the Christians?"
He replied, "Whom else?" - Sahih Bukhari.

Allah (subhanehu wata'alaa) is addressing a specific issue relavant to
the "the
Christians and the Jews". There are other clear ayahs which speak
about the
Kufr of the Jews and Christians. Avoid far-fetched interpretations.  I
would recomend
that you reflect on, "submits himself entirely to Allah". Can a person
reject one of the
Messengers and yet be considered one who "submits himself entirely to
Allah"? Consider
the case of Shaitan. What was his sin? He questioned the command of
Allah (subhanehu wata'alaa):

"When thy Lord said unto the angels: lo! I am about to create a mortal
out of mire,
And when I have fashioned him and breathed into him of My spirit, then
fall down before him prostrate,
The angels fell down prostrate, every one.
Saving Iblis, he was scornful and became one of the disbelievers.
He said: O Iblis! What hindereth thee from falling prostrate before
that
which I have created with both My hands? Art thou too proud or art
thou of the high
He said: I am better than him. Thou createdst me off fire, whilst him
Thou didst
create of clay.
He said: Go forth from hence, for lo! thou art outcast, " - Surah Saad
71 - 77.

I do not believe you read my conclusion. I did not "generalize and say
that all of the
People of the Book of this time are categorically damned". I said,

"And Whoever dies without having heard the message, then his case
is in the hands of Allah who is just. Be assured that Allah's justice
and mercy is complete and hence it is impossible for Him (subhanehu
wata'alaa)
to punish those who do not deserve punishment."

Allah (subhanehu wata'alaa) says:

"Whosoever goeth right, it is only for (the good of) his own soul that
he goeth right, and whosoever erreth, erreth only to its hurt. No
laden soul can bear another's load. We never punish until We have sent
a messenger." - Surah Al-Isra' 15.

It applies to the Jews and Christians of His time. But what would be
their
status if they rejected the Message of the Qura'an, after receiving
it?

True, it is very clear that it was praising some of those who profess
to
be Jews, and  mostly those who profess to be Christians. The
Christians of Habasha
(Abysinia or Ethiopia) in particular.   Among the Jews you have
Abdullahi
Ibn Salaam,  and An-Najashi among the Christians of Habasha.

But once the message of Islam was communicated to them, they have no
choice
but to accept it. Consider the case of the Christians of Najraan (in
Yeman) at
the time of the Messenger of Allah (sallahu 'alaihi wasallam): Here is
the Ayah
related to them:

"(This is) the truth from thy Lord (O Muhammad), so be not thou of
those who waver.

And whoso disputeth with thee concerning him (Isa (allaihi asselaam),
after the
knowledge which hath come unto thee, say (unto him): Come! We will
summon our sons
and your sons, and our women and your women, and ourselves and
yourselves, then we
will pray humbly (to our Lord) and (solemnly) invoke the curse of
Allah upon those who lie.

Lo! This verily is the true narrative. There is no God save Allah, and
lo! Allah is the
Mighty,, the Wise. " - Surah Al-Imran 60 - 62.

...

read more »

Excuse me, but someone apparently part of Yahoo! system said that
Islam has very little of Judeo-Christian in it. THe QGor'an of the
holy Elohistic prophet Mohammad the descendant of Sem and "eber and
Abraham is a very Semitic and Biblical book, with the words Ya and Hu
and Howa and Haway, the Elohistic name Elah (Ilah) and Adam and his
wife and Noah and Abraham, Ishma"EL, Isaac and his mother, Ya"qob
IsraEL and his son Yoseph, Moses and Aharon, and Moses'es mother and
sister, the prophet who said Saul would be king (SamuEL), Dawid,
Solomon, Job, Jonah, ELiYAHW (ELiJAH), ELisha", "ezra, a ZekharIAH dad
of John the Baptist, Maryam, Yeshw"a Mashyqha, MiKaEL, GabriEL, and
the box treasure chest of the promise agreement, this QGor'an book, of
Semitic Biblical prophet Mohammad, is certainly monotheistic
ELAHistic, YAistic, HWistic, Jew-Christian.

Let see... Islam is:

- Semitic

- Hebrew

- Abrahamic

These are correct.

In Islam, Abraham is recognized as the father of the Nabis. Abraham is
a descendant of Eber (Hebrew), who is a descendant of Shem (Semitic).

It's correct that Islam have similiarities with Judaism and
Christianity.

However... It should be noted that Moses never proclaimed that he was
a Jew, and the teachings he teached weren't refered to as Judaism,
instead it was refered as God's teachings.

And also Jesus never proclaim as a Christian, he only refered that the
teachings he bring were the teachings from the Father/God.

That's why when ever there's a dispute, the Qur'an said to always go
back to Abraham, since he's kinda the common denominator. This provide
a link to the other monotheistic religion, including Hinduism.

COLORADO BILL STIGMATIZES MUSLIMS
Proposed student visa legislation refers to "Islamic terrorism"

(WASHINGTON, D.C., 5/5/03) - A prominent national Islamic civil rights
and advocacy group today called on the Colorado General Assembly to
modify proposed legislation that it says stigmatizes Muslim students in
that state and falsely links the faith of Islam to terrorism.

The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) said Bill 03-322, which
passed through the state Senate last week, requires state-sponsored
institutions of higher learning to verify the visa status of foreign
students from countries with links to "Islamic terrorism." The bill now
goes to the Education Committee in the House for final approval.

GO TO:
http://www.leg.state.co.us/2003a/inetcbill.nsf/ExtendedSearchScreen
Search using the term "Islamic."

The bill has garnered criticism from state representatives like Sen. Ken
Gordon (D-Denver), who described the legislation as "needlessly
slanderous of a religion." (AP)

"It is unfortunate that the Colorado General Assembly would link the
faith of Islam, followed by millions of Americans and one-fifth of the
world's population, to terrorism. If passed, this legislation will
stigmatize all Muslim students in Colorado's universities and will
further harm America's image in the Islamic world," said CAIR Executive
Director Nihad Awad.

Awad added that if the bill moves forward toward a signature by the
governor, any references to Islam or Muslims should be removed.

G. Waleed Kavalec
--------------------
"Evil is just plain bad! You don't cotton to it. You gotta smack it on
the nose with the rolled-up newspaper of goodness! Bad dog! Bad dog!"
  -The Tick

Terrorism is a political term used to describe actions tending to bring
about political change.  Differences in terrorist's objectives are broad
enough to allow a descriptive modifier in the term.  "Islamic Terrorism" is
predicated on a different basis than, say, IRA Terrorism and / or Tamil
Tiger Terrorism and / or some kind of weird Japanese cult terrorism.  Why
not have a term for all of them?  The Oklahoma bombing is an act of
"Domestic Terrorism", but no one hears of the maids and butlers of America
being offended at having their profession so maligned ;).

Islamic Terrorism is a real thing, different and disctinct from other forms
of terrorism we see around the world.  As long as there are Muslims who
continue to use their religion to justify their actions and later state;
'God almighty hit the United States at its most vulnerable spot' and 'They
came out to fight Islam in the name of terrorism.' (10/7/01) then the term
'Islamic Terrorism' applies.

However just because a term has geo political signifigance does not mean it
needs to be included in the language of a bill.  The unfortunate thing is
the intent and effect of the bill won't change anyway.  People coming to
America to study, learn, and develop intellectually might be made to feel
less welcome.  (I wonder if they really are?)  I'm of the opinion that if
the Saudis spent their money on sending people to universities in America
and Britain the overall state of Islamic - Western relations would be much
better today than it is.  Intercultural connections and exchanges are the
best way to overcome prejudices.

news:b98ise$gjk29$1@ID-130993.news.dfncis.de...

As we have discussed numerous times Count, reality is not in the labels
people wear or the banners they wave.

Islam is defined by the Qur'an, not by demagogues, and not by the media.
And by that CORRECT definition the term 'Islamic Terrorism' is as meaningful
as 'snowy flames' or 'the aroma of  the vacuum of space'.

Oh, yes we all know what is MEANT in the former case; but we also know that
it FEEDS the false dichotomies and hatreds between Islam and 'the West'.

In my humble opinion real-word pending legislation like this, clearly
spitting in
the face of both the US constition AND 7+ million Americans, doesn't get
worded such by accident.

  G.

"G. Waleed Kavalec" <G.Wal...@kavalec.com> wrote in message <news:EPqdnXE4FrRk9yWjXTWcpw@intertex.net>...

"Peaceful Terrorism"

Yes. It sounded like "snowy flames".

But then again, we got people like this calling "Freedom Fries"
(formerly known as "French Fries"). So we can't really expect much,
other than to inform them the error of their ways, politely and
subtly.

That's what the devil planned. To create a division and hatred between
people. One of the devil recent works is "Freedom Fries", it created a
gap between the people of the USoA and the French people.

Personally, I found that the devil is quite tricky in adding extra
meanings to a word or term that the originial meanings become lost or
obscured. One of the common methods used is to take a word that is
foreign to a particular community then insert some new meanings into
it.

For example, the word "Aryan", where we get the word "Iran", used to
mean the following:

"
1. Indo-Iranian. No longer in technical use.
2. A member of the people who spoke the parent language of the
Indo-European languages. No longer in technical use.
3. A member of any people speaking an Indo-European language. No
longer in technical use.
"

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=aryan

Now those things are 'no longer in technical use'.

Instead we get this below:

"
4. In Nazism and neo-Nazism, a non-Jewish Caucasian, especially one of
Nordic type, supposed to be part of a master race.
"

The devil sure is quite tricky in putting new meanings to a word or
term.

And by the way, do you know what "Nazi" is short for? "National
Socialist" ("Nationalsozialist").

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=national%20socialist

Now when you think about it, "National Socialist" (Nazi) doesn't look
so 'scary' at all, doesn't it?

Then there's "communism", which basically involves the community.

Socialist, community. These are nice words, but the devil are
diverting the originial meaning of the word.

If you are calling a person that he's a national social person and a
community person, that sounded positive.

But if you called a person as a Nazi and a Communist, it kinda sounded
negative, at least toward the 'brainwashed' community.

Then there's "Muslims". The meaning of this term as we know is too
already being perverted.

In its originial meaning, "Muslims" means "those who are peaceful",
and that includes a lot of people.

Now. Some people are claiming that people who are "National Socialist"
and "Communist" don't believe in God.

Is that true? I don't think so. A national social person and a
community person can believe in God, though there are also a national
social person and a community who doesn't believe in GOd.

In relation to that, even "Muslims" can include atheists, if an
atheist adopt peace as his religion.

What? An atheist has no religion? Does this mean he has nothing to
rely on? Don't you think that it's kinda odd a person has nothing to
rely on? Nothing to believe on? Remember, atheist is too a religion, a
religion that doesn't acknowledge the existence of God.

There... You got another word or term that the devil has perverted,
"religion", it means "something that you rely on", but instead it has
narrow down to a "belief in God".

So... As you can see, the devil is trickery in the master of word
play.

MISSION IS TO TEACH TOLERANCE
Altaf Ali, Florida Sun-Sentinel, 5/5/03

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/opinion/sfl-28forum28may05,0,2227177...

In his April 23 column, political writer Buddy Nevins quoted the lies and
distortions put forward by those who seek the marginalization of the
American Muslim community, while leaving out CAIR's history of working at
many levels to benefit the people of our state...

Our Florida office works closely with the FBI, Florida Department of Law
Enforcement, Immigration and Naturalization Service, U.S. Attorney's Office,
Florida Commission on Human Relations, Center for Advancement of Human
Rights at Florida State University, Florida Immigration Advocacy Group,
American Civil Liberties Union and the governor's office.

We also understand the need to strike a balance between liberty and
security.

On March 24, CAIR-FL stood side-by-side with the state and federal officials
to call on members of the Muslim community to offer help in locating a man
on the FBI's most wanted list. Despite our concerns with the FBI's
"voluntary interviews" of Arabs and Muslim, we did not hesitate to help when
help was sought...

It is particularly disturbing that a group such as the Anti-Defamation
League, which claims to fight stereotyping, would indulge in the religious
and ethnic scare-mongering quoted by Nevins on April 23 when he cited an ADL
spokesman who said CAIR is reluctant "to condemn attacks on innocent
Israelis."...

CAIR has been consistent in its repeated condemnation of terrorism in all
its forms. We do not support, either directly or indirectly, any terrorist
group, anywhere in the world...

Altaf Ali is executive director of the Florida office of the Council on
American-Islamic Relations, a Washington-based Islamic advocacy group.

I think its absolutely wonderful that the executive director of an
organization is so willing to jump to its defense.

Wonderful, if a little uninformative or unconvincing.

http://www.hvk.org/articles/0303/105.html

<I didn't take the time to bother verifying the facts in this piece.  There
is an interesting number quoted regarding funding of Mosques in the US.
Pure yellow journalism and condemnation by innuendo, IMHO, I link to it as
an illustration of the kind of communication breakdowns which lead to
misunderstandings>

I've actually come around to your line of thinking on CAIR Greg.  Although
there have been some 'interesting' comments coming from Mr. Hooper and a few
others, I doubt CAIR has a an agenda other than its stated one of increasing
awareness of Islam in America.

Assalamu 'alaikum,

What does 'holy' mean in Islam, and is Zam Zam water considered holy?

Was-salaam

malik