The Passion of the Christ, a question on counselling.
Bj rn B. Larsen
counsellor (trans?) in your church that is great.
The Passion of the Christ has not made it to Europe yet. I think it will
come to Norway late March.
Is this a film that touches people? Not in the way that it is a good or bad
film, but such that they feel this passion is about them?
Do they say: "He did this for me, I need to get saved, NOW!"?
Should we as a church, or maybe som of the churches in the city, prepare a
possibility for people to talk to a counsellor after the movie, on their way
home?
The film is out there, please keep the discusisions about the film in their
respective threads, and leave this thread for this specific question.
-----------------
Have a nice day,
God bless you all!
Bj rn B. Larsen
Joseph T. Adams
> Is this a film that touches people? Not in the way that it is a good or bad
> film, but such that they feel this passion is about them?
> Do they say: "He did this for me, I need to get saved, NOW!"?
What I've observed so far is that it definitely touches people on many
levels, but the extent to which it is "personal" and convicting for
them depends largely on whether they are familiar with the Gospel
message.
Many non-Christians will not be familiar with this message, and will
need some help to understand *why* Jesus chose to suffer as He did for
our redemption.
The movie does provoke a much greater degree of openness - it is
something that people who normally would not talk about "religion" are
talking about, whether they have seen it or not.
> Should we as a church, or maybe som of the churches in the city, prepare a
> possibility for people to talk to a counsellor after the movie, on their way
> home?
A lot of people here in the U.S. are doing this, and I think it is a
good idea.
> -----------------
> Have a nice day,
> God bless you all!
And you too!
Joe
William
kind of movie but at the screening I saw there was a referral to local
churches at the beginning.
I also know of people who are advertising discussion groups after the
screening.
William.
B. Larsen" <bjorn.b...@fysel.ntnu.no> wrote in message news:<PeT0c.19141$qX5....@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>...
dave jung
scripture. I amd also a registered minister with UCMI. The movie
certinly spoke to me, in a very affirming way. At one point (dont want
to give anything away) when satan is put in his place so to speak, the
person who was with me and I gave a small cheer, no one else did. I
heard some people weeping, others (most others) did not. I noted there
were a number of church groups present with a number of children, some
as young as 8 or 9. Was this movie to much for a person that age? I
really cant say, it was VERY intense in places and more violent than
many "slasher type movies" (Im NOT comparing it to a horror movie
here!)
To answer your question I think its the rare emotion, seeing what you
know but for the first time in a way thats not candy coated. I read
one reviewer here in the states for a main newspaper who did not like
the movie dur to the violence actualy say; "From the way Christ is
beaten, you would think he was being beaten for the sins of all
theworld". DUH !!!!!! Kind of the point here!
Personaly I think it better that people be left alone to think and let
it soke in after seeing the movie instead of rushing up to them for
counsuling or any other reason. Its the kind of film that stays in
your mind for a while and forces you to reflect on it.
Dave Jung, I.H.O.P.E. http://www/staffminitries.org
"Bj rn B. Larsen" <bjorn.b...@fysel.ntnu.no> wrote in message news:<PeT0c.19141$qX5....@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>...
Edward Reiss
I saw the movie with my wife Friday evening. During the movie I heard a lot
of weeping etc. I was touched myself in a few scenes. It is very moving but
i am not sure I would say it was enjoyable. After the movie everyone
silently left the theater. My wife and I did not say a word for 10 to 15
minutes. So yes, based on my unscientific study the movie moves people.
I do not think it is an evangelism tool though. Quite a few reviews said
that there was no context supplied. This is true as far as it goes but i
think it only works if one has at least a basic understanding of the
bacgrund of Jesus' life. I do not think people will necessarily repent of
and become Christians because of the movie, but their faith may be deepened
some.
Regarding councilors etc. I do not think you need them. There have been
movies that are more violent than this one and no one assumed people would
need counciling. I think it is wise if someone can explain to those who have
questions why Jesus' suffering was necessary, i.e. supply the context for
those who do not understand.
I hope this helps.
Ed
Cunneen
>film, but such that they feel this passion is about them?
>Do they say: "He did this for me, I need to get saved, NOW!"?
Any exposure to our loving Jesus, even a movie Jesus, can potentially touch
lives. It wouldn't hurt to have ministers ready to counsel those seeing the
movie.
BUT this is less about fear of hell than about coming to appreciate the
tremendous love of God for us sinners. If they are touched, they are touched
by love, not fear.
Bj rn B. Larsen
news:<PeT0c.19141$qX5....@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>...
(Sorry for cutting your reply William.) ;.)
The original post has been dropped from my newsfeed, but I use William's to
reply.
Thank you all for your kind advice. They were as diverse as I might have
expected.
So far we have ended up trying to buy a show at one of the movie theaters
where we may bring whoever we want. And maybe also give them a copy of a
gospel.
--
Have a nice day
Bj rn BL.
M.Swihart
> Hello Bjorn,
>
> I saw the movie with my wife Friday evening. During the movie I heard a lot
> of weeping etc. I was touched myself in a few scenes. It is very moving but
> i am not sure I would say it was enjoyable. After the movie everyone
> silently left the theater. My wife and I did not say a word for 10 to 15
> minutes. So yes, based on my unscientific study the movie moves people.
IMO it is NOT enjoyable. It IS very worthwhile. From seeing it and
those I've talked to the universal reaction seems to be silence
immediately after. I know I didn't feel like talking to anyone for an
hour.
>From the reviews that I've seen, and the people I've talked with
(mostly Xians) it is profoundly moving for Xians. Non-Xians may not
"get it" without help (and even with help it may not resonate). At the
least I'm hoping that non-Xians will understand the passion that Xians
have about Jesus. I do suspect that the movie undermines any talk of
Jesus merely being a "good teacher" and a nice guy that we should
moderately commit to.
M.Swihart
Dr Nancy's Sweetie
the Christ":
> Quite a few reviews said that there was no context supplied. This is
> true as far as it goes but i think it only works if one has at least a
> basic understanding of the bacgrund of Jesus' life.
Many people who have seen this movie seem to want it to be something
else. They might understand better if they knew what Mel Gibson meant
by saying it was a "moving Caravaggio" (assuming they know who
Caravaggio was).
Here's a still Caravaggio:
http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/cas/romlang/art/stthomas.jpg
To someone who doesn't know the story of St. Thomas, this painting is
probably just weird. To someone who does, it's obvious what's going on.
(Someone who doesn't know the story may still express admiration for the
amazingly lifelike wrinkles in Thomas's forehead and the realism in the
folds of clothing.)
For another example, consider this statue:
http://www.artchive.com/artchive/B/bernini/bernini_apollo_and_daphne.jpg
This is a famous sculpture by Bernini; but seeing it cold, it doesn't
make much sense. Why are there leaves coming out of her hands? We can
see the alarm in her face, but it's not clear why.
The statue is based on the story from Greek mythology of Apollo and
Daphne, who was turned into a laurel tree rather than submit to Apollo's
unwelcome amorous advances. The alarm she is feeling isn't worry that
she's turning into a tree -- it's worry that she might not turn into a
tree fast enough.
To someone who knows the story, the statue brings to life Daphne's
desperation to escape Apollo. To someone who doesn't know the story,
the leaves coming out of her fingers are so distracting that the statue
cannot convey anything about what Daphne is feeling. (One may still
marvel at the skill required to carve thin leaves out of solid stone.)
Another example, somewhat closer to the movie, is this statue:
http://www.christusrex.org/www1/citta/0-Pieta.jpg
Here's a woman holding a man; so what? Well, "so what" is that it's
the Virgin Mary holding Jesus' body, after he's been taken off the
Cross. (Again, whatever your religious beliefs or cultural literacy,
looking closely at this work should make it apparent how much skill and
dedication were required to produce it.)
Mel Gibson is not a sculptor or a painter. He doesn't make statues or
paintings. He makes movies. "The Passion of the Christ" is not really
a narrative; it's not about all of what Jesus said and did; it's not
propaganda or documentary. It's the movie version of classical painting
or sculpture; it presents one scene from a longer story, to focus on and
bring to life one particular facet of the story.
The movie has essentially no introduction: no backplot is presented,
the characters are not introduced, the story up until this point is
left untold. But it's not that kind of movie.
Nobody looks at La Pieta and says "Oh, this is an awful retelling of the
New Testament; Jesus is just *lying there*, doing nothing. There's no
*context* which explains it!" Such a criticism would be incredibly
stupid, even for someone who doesn't know much about classical art.
But people have said exactly that about of "The Passion of The Christ",
a bit of criticism which is just as stupid as if it were made of a
statue.
If you don't know the story of Apollo and Daphne, Bernini's statue may
not be of interest to you. Bernini didn't make it to be an introduction
to Greek mythology, so if you aren't already reasonably literate in the
subject matter, the statue is not for you. If you don't know the New
Testament, many of Caravaggio's paintings will likely seem odd. They
aren't supposed to be an introduction, so if you don't know the story,
his paintings aren't for you. If you don't want to admire them as art,
or learn about the subject so as to better appreciate them, it may be
better to go look at some other statues and other paintings on subjects
you do know about.
"The Passion of The Christ" assumes you know the basics of the story;
those who don't, and aren't willing to learn more so as to appreciate
the film as a work of art (and it is well made), probably won't like it.
Darren Provine ! kil...@elvis.rowan.edu ! http://www.rowan.edu/~kilroy
"[W]e preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness
to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks,
Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God."
-- 1 Corinthians 1:22-24
bushbadee
> those I've talked to the universal reaction seems to be silence
> immediately after. I know I didn't feel like talking to anyone for an
hour.
I read the book.
In general the book is much better than subsequent movies they make from it.
It is not my intention of seeing the movie.
I feel it may be a letdown after the book.