Ecclesiastes
**Rowland Croucher**
http://www.biblesociety.ca/free_scriptures/escriptures/ecclesiastes3/ecclesiastes3.html
Shalom/Salaam/Pax! Rowland Croucher
Justice for Dawn Rowan - http://dawnrowansaga.blogspot.com/
Helmut Richter
> A beautiful video... but are you entirely comfortable looking at it?
>
> http://www.biblesociety.ca/free_scriptures/escriptures/ecclesiastes3/ecclesiastes3.html
I am not sure what you allude to. If there is anything in the video I am
not comfortable with, it is already in the text.
--
Helmut Richter
**Rowland Croucher**
What about 'a time for war'? Could Jesus have written that?
--
Shalom/Salaam/Pax! Rowland Croucher
Justice for Dawn Rowan - http://dawnrowansaga.blogspot.com/
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shegeek72
away with. Beautiful video.
Tara's Transgender Resources
http://tarasresources.net
Metropolitan Community Churches
http://www.mccchurch.org/
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Helmut Richter
> Helmut Richter wrote:
> > On Tue, 25 Aug 2009, **Rowland Croucher** wrote:
> >
> >> A beautiful video... but are you entirely comfortable looking at it?
> >>
> >> http://www.biblesociety.ca/free_scriptures/escriptures/ecclesiastes3/ecclesiastes3.html
> >
> > I am not sure what you allude to. If there is anything in the video I am
> > not comfortable with, it is already in the text.
>
> What about 'a time for war'? Could Jesus have written that?
I wrote "If there is anything in the video I am not comfortable with ["a
time for war"], it is already in the text [Qoh.3:8]".
Would you have found it better to modify the Bible text so that it does no
longer contain these words?
--
Helmut Richter
darylgene2003
<rccrouc...@contactemailonwebsite.rutgers.edu> wrote:
> Helmut Richter wrote:
> > On Tue, 25 Aug 2009, **Rowland Croucher** wrote:
>
> >> A beautiful video... but are you entirely comfortable looking at it?
>
.
>
> > I am not sure what you allude to. If there is anything in the video I a=
m
> > not comfortable with, it is already in the text.
>
> What about 'a time for war'? Could Jesus have written that?
You bet !!!!! There are times when a person must be willing to combat
evil, and yes even times when it must be done on that scale. You are
very foolish if you think the world would be a better place without
the wars that have taken place. When evil controls the government war
is sometimes the only recourse. Do you intend to be a conscientious
objector at Armageddon?
-
>
> Shalom/Salaam/Pax! =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Rowland Croucher
>
a...@joe.net
>> What about 'a time for war'? Could Jesus have written that?
>
> You bet !!!!! There are times when a person must be willing to combat
> evil, and yes even times when it must be done on that scale. You are
> very foolish if you think the world would be a better place without
> the wars that have taken place. When evil controls the government war
> is sometimes the only recourse. Do you intend to be a conscientious
> objector at Armageddon?
I'm not a pacifist, and I acknowledge that the use of defensive force in
defense of family, community, and country may at times be necessary.
But there is NEVER an excuse for starting a war. There is NEVER an excuse
to obey man before God, in peacetime or war. There is NEVER an excuse for
unnecessarily harming or endangering civilians or noncombatants. There is
NEVER an excuse to inflict unnecessary suffering even on an "enemy." There
is NEVER an excuse to treat or think of an enemy as less than human, as
having been created in the image of any One less than God Himself. There is
NEVER an excuse for rape, pillage, torture, genocide, or other war crimes.
And if there must be war, its goal must be a just and lasting peace. Not
revenge, retribution, subjugation, domination, or any other ungodly motive.
Joe
Dave
> But there is NEVER an excuse for starting a war. =A0There is NEVER an exc=
use
> to obey man before God, in peacetime or war. =A0There is NEVER an excuse =
for
> unnecessarily harming or endangering civilians or noncombatants. =A0There=
is
> NEVER an excuse to inflict unnecessary suffering even on an "enemy." Ther=
e
> is NEVER an excuse to treat or think of an enemy as less than human, as
re is
> NEVER an excuse for rape, pillage, torture, genocide, or other war crimes=
.
>
> And if there must be war, its goal must be a just and lasting peace. =A0N=
ot
> revenge, retribution, subjugation, domination, or any other ungodly motiv=
e.
Your list of NEVERs doesn't mesh very well with the Israelite conquest
of the land of Canaan as described in the book of Joshua.
Dave
darylgene2003
> darylgene2003 <darylgene2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> What about 'a time for war'? Could Jesus have written that?
>
t
> > evil, and yes even times when it must be done on that scale. You are
> > very foolish if you think the world would be a better place without
> > the wars that have taken place. When evil controls the government war
> > is sometimes the only recourse. Do you intend to be a conscientious
> > objector at Armageddon?
>
> I'm not a pacifist, and I acknowledge that the use of defensive force in
> defense of family, community, and country may at times be necessary.
>
use
> to obey man before God, in peacetime or war. =A0There is NEVER an excuse =
> unnecessarily harming or endangering civilians or noncombatants. =A0There=
is
> NEVER an excuse to inflict unnecessary suffering even on an "enemy." Ther=
e
> is NEVER an excuse to treat or think of an enemy as less than human, as
re is
> NEVER an excuse for rape, pillage, torture, genocide, or other war crimes=
.
>
> And if there must be war, its goal must be a just and lasting peace. =A0N=
ot
> revenge, retribution, subjugation, domination, or any other ungodly motiv=
e.
>
> Joe
I would totally agree with the last part. What would you do with those
who ignore it? Would it not be justified to "start" a war if a regime
were slaughtering innocents?
Was Lincoln unjustified in "starting" the Civil War? Ought not the
strong protect the weak? I know there are a good many motives that are
corrupt and filled with greed and envy, a people must be careful to
examine their own motives, but God did not forbid war, sometimes He
commanded it (if the OT is to be believed.) His voice is less audible
now, we need to take care, that is true, but I would not be so quick
to make a blanket condemnation.
Daryl
a...@joe.net
we do not always understand. But He has given His Law, which can be summed
up by loving Him with all our being and our neighbor as ourselves. We would
do well to obey it, and to seek His forgiveness for the many ways in which
we fall short.
Joe
news
B - old testament.
I don't believe Jesus would have been for the killing of others. What do
you think?
Bren
a...@joe.net
> I would totally agree with the last part. What would you do with those
> who ignore it? Would it not be justified to "start" a war if a regime
> were slaughtering innocents?
No. The only Godly response would be to work to lessen or eliminate the
slaughter, not to increase it. Aggression may justify a defensive response
but it does not justify further aggression.
> Was Lincoln unjustified in "starting" the Civil War?
No.
> Ought not the strong protect the weak?
Absolutely, which is why they should never start wars, but instead work to
end them.
> I know there are a good many motives that are
> corrupt and filled with greed and envy, a people must be careful to
> examine their own motives, but God did not forbid war, sometimes He
> commanded it (if the OT is to be believed.)
And He still has the right to do so, but we do not. He is the Author of
life and only He has the right to take it, or to authorize its taking (which
He does under only very limited circumstances).
> His voice is less audible
> now, we need to take care, that is true, but I would not be so quick
> to make a blanket condemnation.
Nor would I, except that He already did, when He taught us that all of His
Law can be summarized in two parts: to love Him with all our being, and our
neighbor as ourselves.
I do not see how we can love people by murdering them, or love God by
destroying those made in His image.
As for His voice being less audible today, perhaps our servile obedience to
the forces of death (via abortion, euthanasia, war, coercive government,
medical experimentation, environmental contamination, and various other
means) might be partly to blame. Every human being, whether or not he or she
looks like us or acts like us or has the same values or beliefs or political
systems as we do, is created unique and in the very image of God Himself. As
such, insofar as possible, every life should be protected, and none should
be destroyed.
We might want to consider doing this again, and repenting of not having done
so in the past, if we truly wish to hear from Him again.
Joe
**Rowland Croucher**
Read Marcus Borg's The Heart of Christianity to find the best exposition
I've read about whether God (the father of the pacifist Jesus) actually
ordered the slaughter of the Amalekites...
a...@joe.net
>
> B - old testament.
> I don't believe Jesus would have been for the killing of others. What do
> you think?
Jesus said that He and the Father are One. What the Father did, the Son
did, and vice versa.
Whatever He did or did not do, it was just, and probably merciful as well,
because it is not in His nature to do otherwise. We may not know or
understand how or why, but He does, and that should be sufficient.
Joe