"Psychic Power" is Prohibited, so is this too?
mike3
I've heard about quotes from the Baha'i writings that claim the usage
of
"Psychic Power" is prohibited for several reasons, one being that
there isn't
any way to know how accurate it is, whether it is really true or just
imagination,
(so I guess it would be impossible to ever study with science, no? So
does that
mean diss every attempt anyone makes to research this stuff?), another
being
that the development/usage of such power might hamper in some way the
spiritual development of the person doing it, as the powers are best
left to be used
during the "Afterlife" in the great Multiverse beyond this little
material universe,
and that the powers are not reliable (or something like that, I can't
remember),
and so on...
But then I see this:
"Of the two other kinds of healing which are spiritual - that is to
say, where the means
of cure is a spiritual power - one results from the entire
concentration of the mind of
a strong person upon a sick person, when the latter expects with all
his concentrated
faith that a cure will be effected from the spiritual power of the
strong person, to such
an extent that there will be a cordial connection between the strong
person and the
invalid. The strong person makes every effort to cure the sick
patient, and the sick
patient is then sure of receiving a cure. From the effect of these
metnal impressions
an excitement of the nerves is produced, and this impression and this
excitement
of the nerves will become the cause of the recovery of the sick
person."
('Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, section 72 "Healing by
Spiritual Means")
Yet this sounds like psychic power. So wouldn't the practice of the
above be prohibited?
And how could they be "sure" of receiving a cure when psychic powers
are considered
unreliable and all that stuff? If this is _not_ "psychic power", then
what does that term
mean, anyway? Also, what sort of "strength" does the "healer" require,
exactly?
Finally, there's another section right after this where healing by
"material" means
is discussed, and it talks about the usage of plants and other
"natural" sources of
medicine, which seems different from prevailing medical paradigm which
uses
synthetic drugs. This is not necessarily a problem, but what I'm
wondering about is that
even after many decades since the writing of this book, not many
"natural"-based
medicines have been scientifically, rigorously proven to work. Is it
really that difficult to
do?
tsuki190
mediumship - what is now called channeling also. Here is a chapter
from the book Miracles in Religion:
http://bahai-library.com/books/miracles/psychic.forces.html
The interpretations here are not authoritative but it gives sources for all
the
quotes.
Automatic writing was more popular at one time. The idea is that you are
connecting to the spirit of some departed sage and that spirit is guiding
your pen.
Here is the chapter. You will see no warnings about prayer,
Tom
Chapter Seventeen:
Tempering with Psychic Forces
Some miraculous feats are presumed to be linked with the development
of latent psychic faculties in man. 'Abdu'l-Bahá, the Beloved Master
of the Bahá'í Faith, admits the reality of the 'super normal' psychic
faculties, but deprecates attempts to force their premature
development. "To tamper with psychic forces while in this world
interferes with the condition of the soul in the world to come. These
forces are real, but, normally, are not active on this plane."1
'Abdu'l-Bahá uses the example of a child in the womb to explain the
idea. The child has eyes, ears, hands, feet, etc., but they are not in
activity. Only once the child is born in the material world, do these
organs become active. Similarly, psychic powers are not to be used in
this world, and it is dangerous to cultivate them here.
When asked if a departed soul can converse with someone still on
earth, 'Abdu'l-Bahá answered, "A conversation can be held, but not as
our conversation. There is no doubt that the forces of the higher
worlds interplay with the forces of this plane. The heart of man is
open to inspiration; this is spiritual communication. As in a dream
one talks with a friend while the mouth is silent, so is it in the
conversation of the spirit. A man may converse with the ego within him
saying: 'May I do this? Would it be advisable for me to do this work?'
Such as this is conversation with the higher self."2
'Abdu'l-Bahá points out that there can be, under certain rare
circumstances, such as those experienced by the Prophets, communion
with some soul gone before into the invisible world. Most other
experiences of this type that people claim to have with departed souls
are the product of their imaginations—however real they may seem to
them to be.3 Shoghi Effendi, the Guardian of the Bahá'í Faith points
out, "Truly mystical experiences based on reality are very rare, and
we can readily see how dangerous it is for people to go groping about
in the darkness of their imagination after the true thing. That is
why,…we are warned against all psychical practices by the Master."4
The whole purpose of life in the material world is the coming forth
into the world of Reality where psychic forces will become active.
Practices such as intercourse with spirits of the departed, telepathy,
etc., ought not to be indulged in either for curiosity or for their
own sake. Shoghi Effendi explains that such powers "…should be left
dormant, and not exploited, even when we do so with the sincere belief
we are helping others. We do not understand their nature and have no
way of being sure of what is true and what is false in such matters."
He adds, "If children are inclined to be psychic they should not be
blamed for it too harshly; they should not be encouraged to strengthen
their powers in this direction."5 In most cases, psychic phenomena
indicate deep psychological disturbance, and we should avoid giving
undue consideration to such matters.
When asked about dreams and visions, the Guardian replied that it is
very difficult to distinguish truth from imagination. However, he
explained that "True visions…can be granted to those who are
spiritually pure and receptive, and are not therefore confined to the
Prophets alone."6
The Guardian explains, "Briefly, there is no question that visions
occasionally do come to some individuals, which are true and have
significance. On the other hand, this comes to an individual through
the grace of God, and not through the exercise of any of the human
faculties. It is not a thing which a person should try to develop.
When a person endeavours to develop faculties so that they might enjoy
visions, dreams etc., actually what they are doing is weakening
certain of their spiritual capacities; and thus under such
circumstances, dreams and visions have no reality, and ultimately lead
to the destruction of the character of the person."7 The Bahá'í
Writings emphasize that the Manifestations of God reveal the divine
will to us and there is little need for individual revelations.8
Similar comments are made about receiving inspired written messages or
automatic writing. The Guardian clarifies that "…the world's greatest
writers and painters have not been under psychic influence, but
through innate ability, practice and study, have given us their
masterpieces; this is the normal way for inspiration to reach us,
through the channels of our own abilities, and not through control by
forces which…are neither consistent nor reliable."9
About automatic writing, 'Abdu'l-Bahá explains: "This power is neither
heavenly nor spiritual; neither is it an influence from disembodied
spirits. It is human spirit-magnetism within the self of the one doing
the writing. When the thoughts have taken possession of the mind and
are not consciously directed, one becomes subject to their promptings,
and, unconsciously, or automatically, takes a pencil and writes them
down. The oftener this is done the stronger becomes the magnetic
prompting."10 It is the same process as learning a lesson or poem by
heart, taking a walk often on the same road unconsciously or
automatically.
It is both a privilege and duty, however, for those in this world and
those who have passed on to the next world to love and pray for each
other. 'Abdu'l-Bahá explains, "Those who have ascended have different
attributes from those who are still on earth, yet there is no real
separation. In prayer there is a mingling of station, a mingling of
condition. Pray for them as they pray for you."11 He gives a beautiful
analogy: "The rich in the other world can help the poor, as the rich
can help the poor in here. "12 This is the true meaning of help and
assistance in the other world. Not surprisingly, a great emphasis is
laid in all religions on prayer ceremonies for those who have passed
on to the other side of the veil. In many cases rituals and priest
craft have overshadowed the real practices. The point is that
"Undeveloped souls must gain progress at first through the
supplications of the spiritually rich; afterwards they can progress
through their own supplications…."13
'Abdu'l-Bahá elaborates, "The wealth of the other world is nearness to
God. Consequently it is certain that those who are near the Divine
Court are allowed to intercede, and this intercession is approved by
God…. It is even possible that the condition of those who have died in
sin and unbelief may become changed; that is to say, they may be the
object of pardon through the Bounty of God…."14 However, in most cases
the idea of taking the help of a spiritually strong person is
translated into hiring a priest to pray for the dead.
The Bahá'í approach towards those who have passed over to the next
world is very different from those who dabble in spiritualistic
practices. The Bahá'í Writings clearly warn against indulging in
spiritualist practices like holding seances, materialization of
spirits, or communicating with the dead through spirit mediums.
Regarding the materialization of spirits through mediums, 'Abdu'l-Bahá
says: "A person finding himself in a state of trance, or
unconsciousness, is like one who sleeps; whatever he feels and sees he
imagines to be matter and of material things, but in realty they are
wholly immaterial."15 He clarifies that apart from the Bounty of the
Holy Spirit all that is said about "…mesmerism or trumpet
communications from the dead are sheer imagination."16
Thus paying attention to persons thought to be imbued with
spiritualistic ideas is rather useless because what they think to be
the truth has much of personal imagination added to it. Many
investigative books written on the subject support this view. Some
popular spirit mediums, who later on chose to reveal the truth, have
also indicated that they had certain psychic powers like reading other
person's thoughts. They took to becoming spirit mediums to earn more
money from their credulous clientele. Many have also lain bare their
secret practices and tricks through which they produced so-called
supernatural phenomena.
The Bahá'í Writings teach that evil souls who have passed away can
exercise no power over people. Good is stronger than evil. Evil souls
have very little power, even when alive. How much less they have after
they are dead.17 The influence of psychic 'arts' "…is dependent on the
conviction, even the sub-conscious conviction, of the person affected
and, similarly, the power of the 'priests' to overcome the influence
is likewise an outcome of the sufferer's conviction that it is from
the 'priest' that he or she will be able to obtain help."18 Similarly,
the Bahá'í Writings teach that heaven and hell are conditions within
our beings.19 Heaven is described as a state of nearness to God and
hell as being far removed from Him.
The Bahá'ís are warned not to indulge in occult practices as these can
cause considerable mental harm, and thus permanently injure the mind
as well as the body. Even the company of such people is to be avoided
because we may unconsciously fall under their baneful influence.20
The Bahá'ís are advised to rely on the power of the Holy Spirit. This
power is now manifest through the appearance of Bahá'u'lláh. Shoghi
Effendi has assured that no force of heaven or earth or any negative
influences can affect us if we place ourselves "wholly under the
influence of the Holy Spirit".21 In one of His Tablets, 'Abdu'l-Bahá
wrote, "If you seek immunity from the sway of the forces of the
contingent world, hang the 'Most Great Name' in your dwelling, wear
the ring of the 'Most Great Name' on your finger, place the picture of
'Abdu'l-Bahá in your home and always recite the prayers…. Then you
will behold the marvellous effect they produce. Those so-called forces
will prove but illusions and will be wiped out and exterminated." 22
******
NOTES AND REFERENCES
1. J. E. Esslemont, Bahá'u'lláh and the New Era, p. 178.
2. 'Abdu'l-Bahá, Paris Talks, p. 179.
3. Lights of Guidance, p. 540. [Shoghi Effendi. Letter dated Oct. 25, 1
942].
4. ibid., p. 515. [Shoghi Effendi. Letter dated October 25, 1942].
5. ibid., p. 513. [Shoghi Effendi. Letter dated March 4, 1946].
6. ibid., p. 514. [Shoghi Effendi. Letter dated November 26, 1939].
7. ibid., p. 515. [Shoghi Effendi. Letter dated May 6, 1952].
8. ibid. [Shoghi Effendi. Letter dated December 22, 1947].
9. ibid., p. 517. [Shoghi Effendi. Letter dated February 24, 1947].
10. ibid. ['Abdu'l-Bahá Abbás, Daily Lessons Received at 'Akká,
pp. 43-44, Bahá'í Publishing Society].
11. J. E. Esslemont, Bahá'u'lláh and the New Era, pp. 178-9.
12. ibid., p. 178.
13. ibid.
14. ibid., p.176.
15. Lights of Guidance, p. 519. [Daily Lessons Received at 'Akká,
'Abdu'l-Bahá Abbás, 1979, p. 82].
16. ibid. ['Abdu'l-Bahá Abbás, Daily Lessons Received at 'Akká,
1979, p. 85].
17. Lights of Guidance, p. 521.
18. ibid., p. 520. [From a letter written on behalf of the
Universal House of Justice, August 30, 1984].
19. ibid. [From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian,
November 14, 1947].
20. ibid., p. 522. [From a letter written on behalf of the
Guardian, August 5, 1939].
21. Lights of Guidance, p. 519. [Shoghi Effendi. Letter dated
August 11, 1957].
22. ibid., p. 520.
compx2
of our discussion a couple months ago when you said: "...there is
great potential for error. Probably the translators of many of Abdul-
Baha's talks were pretty good and the notes of the translations were
pretty good but there is potential for error and it is not
authenticated."
You said it in relation to 'Abdu'l-Baha's telling people in the same
books you quote now to "be a Baha'i".
I think there is a lot more potential for error if people follow the
unauthenticated advice of 'Abdu'l-Baha on psychic phenomenon than on
living a Baha'i life. I would urge people to discount all of the
unauthenticated text you bring here now, and instead tell them to gird
up the loins of endeavor to live a Baha'i life.
--Kent
> popular spirit mediums, who later on chose to reveal the truth, have> exercise no power over people. Good is stronger than evil. Evil souls
..
>
> 5. ibid., p. 513. [Shoghi Effendi. Letter dated March 4, 1946].
>
> 6. ibid., p. 514. [Shoghi Effendi. Letter dated November 26, 1939
].
>
> 7. ibid., p. 515. [Shoghi Effendi. Letter dated May 6, 1952].
>
> 8. ibid. [Shoghi Effendi. Letter dated December 22, 1947].
>
> 9. ibid., p. 517. [Shoghi Effendi. Letter dated February 24, 1947
].
>
> 10. ibid. ['Abdu'l-Bahá Abbás, Daily Lessons Received at 'Akk
á,
> pp. 43-44, Bahá'í Publishing Society].
>
> 11. J. E. Esslemont, Bahá'u'lláh and the New Era, pp. 178-9.
>
> 12. ibid., p. 178.
>
> 13. ibid.
>
> 14. ibid., p.176.
>
> 15. Lights of Guidance, p. 519. [Daily Lessons Received at 'Akk
á,
> 'Abdu'l-Bahá Abbás, 1979, p. 82].
>
> 16. ibid. ['Abdu'l-Bahá Abbás, Daily Lessons Received at 'Akk> Universal House of Justice, August 30, 1984].
>
> 19. ibid. [From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian,
> November 14, 1947].
>
> 20. ibid., p. 522. [From a letter written on behalf of the
> Guardian, August 5, 1939].
>
> 21. Lights of Guidance, p. 519. [Shoghi Effendi. Letter dated
> August 11, 1957].
>
> 22. ibid., p. 520.On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 9:54 PM
Douglas McAdam
teach, acquire virtues etc., in short live the life by following the
example of the Master, our overall senses, intellect and faith will
increase and then we will acquire additional powers of perception.
But if we try to force these additional powers we can cause ourselves
great harm.
doug
mike3
> We are warned about certain types of psychic phenomena related to
> mediumship - what is now called channeling also. Here is a chapter
> from the book Miracles in Religion:http://bahai-library.com/books/miracle
s/psychic.forces.html
> The interpretations here are not authoritative but it gives sources for a
ll
> the
> quotes.
>
> Automatic writing was more popular at one time. The idea is that you a
re
> connecting to the spirit of some departed sage and that spirit is guiding
> your pen.
>
> Here is the chapter. You will see no warnings about prayer,
>
> Tom
>
The question, though, is _not_ "is psychic power prohibited?". The
question is,
"is THIS prohibited?" or, better, "is THIS one of those 'prohibited'
'psychic powers'?"
referring to the process in the quotes I referred to. Which seemed
different from
just "prayer".
mike3
> The Bahá'í Writings teach that evil souls who have passed away can
> exercise no power over people. Good is stronger than evil. Evil souls
> have very little power, even when alive. How much less they have after
This piqued my interest. Does this mean that "demon posessions", for
example, are pretty much impossible, because evil souls have no
power? And that "evil ghosts" killing or injuring people is a myth?
Because
that would require power on the part of the evil spirit/soul involved,
which
such would not have?
t h
on developing
psychic abilities. They were not translated.
Apparently healing by spiritual means is different from psychic powers
as in Some Answered Questions Abdul-Baha seems to approve of it.
Tom
tsuki190
It isn't something I have given much attention to.
Tom
mike3
wrote:
However, this doesn't quite answer the question: is what 'Abdu'l-Baha
was
talking about with that healing, a "psychic power" and so "prohibited"
to
develop for it would actually be bad to do so?
mike3
> Actually the key items are from Shoghi Effendi on automatic writing and
> on developing
> psychic abilities. They were not translated.
>
> Apparently healing by spiritual means is different from psychic powers
> as in Some Answered Questions Abdul-Baha seems to approve of it.
>
> Tom
>
Now that addresses the question. I thought so too but wasn't
really sure, because he didn't sound disapproving of it, but then it
talked
about "results from the entire concentration of the mind" which sounds
sort of like "psychic" power which is like "mind power over matter" or
something like that.
mike3
Of course, I'm not exactly sure what the Baha'i definition of "psychic
power" is,
either, and so it might not include what was being referred to in that
SAQ quote I
mentioned.
drgoplayer
prayer.
When some people pray for healing for someone, it can be very potent.
This would be directed attention also.
Tom
> ...
>
> read more »
Douglas McAdam
psychic |ˈsīkik|adjective1 relating to or denoting faculties
or
phenomena that are apparently inexplicable by natural laws, esp.
involving telepathy or clairvoyance :psychic powers.• (of a
person)
appearing or considered to have powers of telepathy or clairvoyance :
I could sense it—I must be psychic.2 of or relating to the soul
or
mind : he dulled his psychic pain with gin.3 Bridge denoting a bid
that deliberately misrepresents the bidder's hand, in order to mislead
the opponents.
The quote seems to be saying it is a mind over mind type power and not
the type of psychic power that we should avoid trying to develop. And
maybe the key to understand this is that it might be saying we should
not try to develop this power but let it come to us by virtue of being
obedient to the Covenant.
regards,
doug
Martin Clark
news:mc2dncyDvK-fQsjU...@giganews.com:
Some people have "psychic powers". There is no point in telling people
who have these powers that they are "prohibited". They have them -
that is that. I know a few Baha'is who have psychic powers, and of
course neither confirm or deny that I have them myself :-)
The warning appears to be about trying to develop these powers when
they are not already possessed.
Martin Clark
Douglas McAdam
When I grew up in the back woods of Canada I "just knew" certain
dangers. When I worked in the "hood" in East LA I "just knew" certain
things. It is called intuition and we all have it but for the most
part we may lose this because of not having the need. When I was in
business management, teaching, etc. I could walk into a business and
"just know" there was something not right. I would not exactly call
this psychic powers but it most certainly is a gift or an innate power
that we have. I think to there are Writings saying that all the
virtues are latent within us but we must take the proper action to
bring them out and apply them. We have the inner capacity to know and
love God but we must also act on it. I think we also have the
capacity or inner psychic powers but we must develop spiritually for
it to become refined. I think also there is a quote about how we all
have been born with a certain talents and must earn the rest.
But the main thing to me is just as you say, that we should not
consciously strive to develop psychic powers.
regards,
doug
tsuki190
to say to people sometimes, people that they did not know.
Tahireh (holding the baby Abdul-Baha) is reported to have said something
about the center of the covenant (this is in Dawnbreakers so certainly
not authenticated). The central figures seemed to know things as needed.
There are many stories about this.
Some other amusing stories about Abdul-Baha:
Shortly after Abdul-Baha arrived in New York, he asked Lua Getsinger to
go out to California on an errand for him. She became sick so she wouldn't
have to leave his presence. The Persians were somewhat horrified at this
disobedience. :-) Finally Abdul-Baha gave her some tea to drink and told
her that she would become well. The errand turned out to be to prepare
for his trip cross country to California.
There is a video of Abdul-Baha greeting some dignitaries in New York.
He is saying something in Persian to each one. He is saying "I see you
little chickadee" to Lua who is hiding in some bushes to be near him.
Cheers,
Tom
> On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 8:15 PM, Douglas McAdam
> <dougla...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> I agree Martin.
>> When I grew up in the back woods of Canada I "just knew" certain dangers.
>> When I worked in the "hood" in East LA I "just knew" certain things. It is
>> called intuition and we all have it but for the most part we may lose this
>> because of not having the need. When I was in business management,
>> teaching, etc. I could walk into a business and "just know" there was
>> something not right. I would not exactly call this psychic powers but it
>> most certainly is a gift or an innate power that we have. I think to there
>> are Writings saying that all the virtues are latent within us but we must
>> take the proper action to bring them out and apply them. We have the inner
>> capacity to know and love God but we must also act on it. I think we also
>> have the capacity or inner psychic powers but we must develop spiritually
>> for it to become refined. I think also there is a quote about how we all
>> have been born with a certain talents and must earn the rest.
>>
>> But the main thing to me is just as you say, that we should not consciously
>> strive to develop psychic powers.
>>
>> regards,
>> doug
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 27, 2008, at 7:33 PM, Martin Clark wrote:
>>
mike3
wrote:
> I think it depends on what definition of "psychic" one uses.
> psychic |ˈsīkik|adjective1 relating to or denoting faculties
> or
> phenomena that are apparently inexplicable by natural laws, esp.
> involving telepathy or clairvoyance :psychic powers.• (of a
> person)
>
> I could sense it—I must be psychic.2 of or relating to the soul
> or
> mind : he dulled his psychic pain with gin.3 Bridge denoting a bid
> that deliberately misrepresents the bidder's hand, in order to mislead
>
> the opponents.
>
> The quote seems to be saying it is a mind over mind type power and not
>
> the type of psychic power that we should avoid trying to develop.
That would make more sense.
> And
>
> maybe the key to understand this is that it might be saying we should Â
>
> not try to develop this power but let it come to us by virtue of being
>
> obedient to the Covenant.
>
But what happens if the power comes by obeying the law, then what?
Is it still bad to "use"? And has there been any report of this
"psychic
power" just "developing" as this is followed more and more?
mike3
wrote:
> I agree Martin.
> When I grew up in the back woods of Canada I "just knew" certain
> dangers. When I worked in the "hood" in East LA I "just knew" certain
> things. It is called intuition and we all have it but for the most
> part we may lose this because of not having the need. When I was in
> business management, teaching, etc. I could walk into a business and
> "just know" there was something not right. I would not exactly call
> this psychic powers but it most certainly is a gift or an innate power
> that we have. I think to there are Writings saying that all the
> virtues are latent within us but we must take the proper action to
> bring them out and apply them. We have the inner capacity to know and
> love God but we must also act on it. I think we also have the
> capacity or inner psychic powers but we must develop spiritually for
> it to become refined. I think also there is a quote about how we all
> have been born with a certain talents and must earn the rest.
>
> But the main thing to me is just as you say, that we should not
> consciously strive to develop psychic powers.
>
You "agree"? Does this mean you think that it is "OK" to "develop"
them when they __are__ "already" possessed? I though that was a
no-no too.
mike3
> mike3 <mike4...@yahoo.com> wrote innews:mc2dncyDvK-fQsjUnZ2dnUVZ_vSdnZ2d@
So does or does not it refer to the "healing" thing mentioned, i.e.
does that
fall under that category of "psychic powers" that are prohibited to
actively
develop?
Douglas McAdam
I'm responding to the below responses you separately wrote so it won't
take up too much air space.
I was agreeing with Martin in general not that it is ok to develop
them if they are already possessed. If they are already possessed
there would be no need to develop them.
My understanding is that we all possess innately all the attributes,
all the powers needed to fulfill God's purpose for us on this plane
and prepare us for transition into the next level, world, etc. This
is our training ground in other words. However psychic powers is
something the Writings tell us to not consciously or actively
develop. But if someone already possesses such a power how can they
stop using it? For example the Master was reported to have foreseen a
problem in travel to America on the Titanic and for sure he was
right. Should he have ignored this inner warning? I don't think
so. Since he is the overall Perfect Exemplar of the Baha'i Revelation
then we need to follow his teaching, both what he wrote and how he
lived.
I have certain friends who appear to have a high degree of psychic
ability and when they tell me their thoughts I listen and then check
it out for myself. I don't just blindly accept what they say. But
they also don't go around telling everyone what to do or how to live,
etc. They only respond when asked.
One of my main life influences was a lady who appeared to have
extraordinary powers. I was visiting her one day and she told me she
had found an artifact the Master had used when he was here in the USA
at the Green Acre Baha'i School. I asked to see it and she said it
was in the second drawer of the bureau in her bedroom on the left. I
went to the bedroom which was two rooms away and down a hall and saw a
bureau and another chest of drawers and got confused as to which
drawer to open and so I took the first one and opened it and I heard
my friend shout out, "No not that one, the other one." How did she
know? Because of this kind of thing often happening I asked her one
day is she psychic and she said no, not in the way I think. She said
that because she had lived her life cleanly, having proper diet, no
drugs, alcohol, obedience to the Covenant, etc. then her senses were
more acute than most people. And she further said that her intuition
was more sensitive. But the denied that she was psychic.
The term "psychic powers" is a general term covering a lot of
specifics but again while the Writings prohibit the active development
of such powers they also permit the use of spiritual healing which to
me is a specific type of psychic power and it is not prohibited.
Take for example the extraordinary powers of animals who seem to sense
when a storm is coming long before humans can. They have this inner
sense and so do we but because of our free will we have made choices
that often pervert those inner and innate powers. The Master covered
this too in SAQ regarding the Three Characters, i.e. Innate, Inherent
and Acquired.
regards,
doug
On Dec 28, 2008, at 3:52 AM, mike3 wrote:
> But what happens if the power comes by obeying the law, then what?
> Is it still bad to "use"? And has there been any report of this
> "psychic
> power" just "developing" as this is followed more and more?
> You "agree"? Does this mean you think that it is "OK" to "develop"
> them when they __are__ "already" possessed? I though that was a
> no-no too.
>
> So does or does not it refer to the "healing" thing mentioned, i.e.
mike3
wrote:
Thanks for the response. I have one last question here: On this very
last
little bit, I'd like to know: what choices "pervert" that intrinsic
power,
anyway? Is it any choice that transgresses the law of God?
Douglas McAdam
I think I had explained this in an earlier post about how all our
problems are the result of unsatisfied needs, wants and desires and
suggested a reading of the Three Characters in SAQ.
Briefly it appears to me that the animal has no ability to make
choice, it simply reacts to stimuli in the environment. However we
humans have free will and can make bad choices that pervert our lower
nature. For example we use harmful chemicals and unhealthy foods and
it cause a problem in our body chemistry. We make choices based on
likes and dislikes not solely on what is good or not good for us. We
choose to obey or disobey the laws of God both spiritual and physical
laws and their is a punishment to pay or a reward depending on our
choices. Science has already provided us with the needed information
as to what drugs and alcohol, bad diets, etc. does to our bodies so we
cannot claim ignorance. Once we have perverted that lower natures
innate power it does not function as it should.
I know from personal experience with addictions that when I decided to
change my life I found a good holistic health practitioner (Baha'i)
and changed my diet so that now my body rejects many of the chemicals
and foods that I used to abuse. Even smells can cause me to reject
certain things. But there are still certain foods that I really love
that I must exercise my will power to avoid such as bacon, certain
sweets. I may use such things once in a while but I never overdue any
bad foods, drinks, etc. And I'm not a vegetarian just a moderate
dieter.
regards,
doug
mike...@yahoo.com
I think it comes down to this. Baha'is may as a result of their own
spiritual development attain certain abilities that in my estimation
may be classified on the 'jedi' level. I think that when you read
accounts of the Bab for example you hear of things ranging from his
ability to see the future and influence people to levitation and an
outright class act in terms of disappearing. But this is not the
reason to become spiritual and if it is, then by virtue of your impure
motives you will never attain such skills. To try and actively pursue
these skills and indulge in this area may damage your spirits
development. But should it occur by chance or as a function of your
own spirituality then consider it a gift not to be actively used or
pursued, simply experienced. Beyond this I think you should be aware
that there is a lot of trickery and self-deceit mixed into this area
of the human experience.
mike3
So then would it be safe to say that any claim of attainment of these
things with such "impure" motives (such as trying it for advancing
science and scientific knowledge) could be regarded as false (a lie or
hoax)?
And furthermore, I'd also doubt that fear of burning in hell is a good
reason to pursue religion and spirituality.
> To try and actively pursue
> these skills and indulge in this area may damage your spirits
> development. But should it occur by chance or as a function of your
> own spirituality then consider it a gift not to be actively used or
> pursued, simply experienced. Beyond this I think you should be aware
> that there is a lot of trickery and self-deceit mixed into this area
> of the human experience.
So these "abilities", if they really do exist, are not to be _used_,
period.
They're at best meant to be left as a "side effect" of the
development.
(and I doubt that they'd occur in every case or even many cases.)
Although I'm not sure why consider it a "gift" if it is not to be
used.
And yes, I'm very sure there exists a lot of hoaxes and trickery.
Look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?vOZeQGld5QBU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?vQlfMsZwr8rc
Douglas McAdam
I have been away for a spell and just now getting around to responding
to emails.
Possibly there is some misunderstanding about all this.
My understanding is that talents, virtues, extra powers, etc. are
innate within each soul. Some souls might have a propensity for
music, some for art, some for math, etc. but we all can develop these
by being obedient to God's Will. When we are obedient and acquire
virtues and use these powers for the proper purpose they become more
fully able to be expressed. But we are not to purposely seek after
and try to develop them. And if we already have a high degree of
extra powers then we are not to use them for the wrong purposes.
I believe the subject line of these emails is wrong for these powers
are not prohibited, what is prohibited is for us to purposely try to
develop them or misuse them if we do have such things.
regards,
doug
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZeQGld5QBU
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlfMsZwr8rc
>