LET'S BOYCOTT THE ANTI-GAY BIGGOTS!
Lac...@webtv.net
LISTEN UP GAY COMMUNITY and LISTEN UP GOOD! It's
time for us in the Gay & Lesbian community to do
some boycotting of these Right-Wing biggots and
their supporters since they are boycotting us
and their supporters.
Since the Fundementalist-Right is boycotting
Disney (and several other companies that support
us), it's time for us in the Gay community to do
some boycotting of them.
Let's show these Anti-Gay biggots the power
of our hard earned money and make the
decision(s) not to spend it on them and their
supporters.
Below is a list of MANY of the supporters
of the Fundementalist-Right including supporters
of Pat Robertsons 700 Club and the Christian
Coalition. I suggest that look at the list
carefully to see who you as a Gay person should
be boycotting.
------------------------------------------------
KIM ALEXIS - The former fitness guru was a
frequent guest on Pat Robertsons 700 Club and
speaker at the Republican Party. She now does
commercials for "Monistat-3". The Gay community
should boycott ALL products advertized by Ms.
Alexis and Lesbians should be boycotting
"Monistat-3"
FRED BERRY - You may remember him as "Re-run"
from "What's Happening". He is now a "Born
again" Christian Rap artist and a supporter of
Pat Robertsons. It's also amazing that with all
the talk about Family Values and the "Promise
Keepers" that Fred Berry abandoned his son for
Many years (would Dan Quayle approve of that???)
KIRK CAMERON - The former "Growing Pains" star
who played the rebellious teenager "Mike Seaver"
is a supporter of Pat Robertson's. While on the
"700 Club", Mr. Cameron had the nerve to
criticize "Married with Children" (perhaps Mr.
Cameron should watch "Growing Pains" again and
look at some of the mischief "Mike Seaver" has
done) Gay's and Lesbians should be boycoting his
new show titled "Kirk" which is now shown on the
WB network.
SHANNEN DOERTY - The former star of "Beverly
Hills 90210" is a sraunch conservative and a
supporter of the 700 Club. Ms. Doerty was proven
to be a hypocrite when she divorced her husband
Ashley Hamilton (the son of Deeply tanned
"George Hamilton") after only being married to
him for two weeks (wow, talk about Family
Values)
KIM FIELDS - Formerly known as "Tooty" on the
"Facts of Life" she is a supporter of Pat
Robertsons 700 Club. Gays and Lesbians should be
boycotting her new show "Living Single" and/or
not buy any products advertized during "Living
Single"
ANNETTE FUNICELLO - This former Mousekateer now
spends her time boycotting the company she once
worked for, Disney. Let's boycott any television
show she is on and every product she advertizes
for.
AL GREEN - Best known for his 1970's R&B hit
"Let's stay together". Al Green is now a Gospel
Artist and a supporter of Pat Robertson's 700
Club.
GRANT GOODEVE - Mr. Goodeve portrayed the eldest
brother on the 1970's family sitcom "Eight is
Enough". Several years later, he played a Gay
attorney on "Dynasty". Mr. Goodeve is now a
supporter of the 700 Club and sometimes host's
it when Pat is on Vacation. Let's boycott "Eight
is Enough" and those boring "Eight is Enough"
reunions.
MICHAEL GROSS - The former father on the 80's
sitcom "Family Ties" is now a supporter of Pat
Robertson's 700 Club and now does work for a
Right Wing organization that claims to feed
starving children in 3rd world countries.
M.C. HAMMER - Best known for his 1990 Rap song
"you cant touch this" (a ripoff of the
transgendered Rick James "Superfreak"), M.C.
Hammer is now a supporter of Pat Robertsons 700
Club and was a Christian Rap artist until he was
denouned by some in the Fundementalist community
for his explicid lyrics in a song called "She's
soft & wet".
M.C. Hammer recently changed his music to a
more "Hard Core" sound to compete with other Rap
artists like "Snoop Doggy Dogg" and "Notorious
BIG", but still holds on to his Fundementalist
Christian faith. So let's boycott him anyway.
CHARELTON HESTON - Known for his role as "Moses"
in many religious films and as Alexis Colby's
Brother-in-Law on "Dynasty". Mr. Heston is a
supporter of Pat Robertson's and the Christian
Coalition.(Not to mention a member of the NRA)
Gay's & Lesbians should be boycotting ANY movie
that Charelton Heston ever starred in.
HULK HOGAN - Former WWF Wrestler who was
seriously hurt during a match and sent to the
hospital several years ago where he was
converted to Fundementalist Christianity is now
a supporter of Pat Robertson's 700 Club. Mr.
Hogan also does commercials for Deoderant
companies. Gay's and Lesbians should be
boycotting EVERY show doe with Hulk Hogan and
should not be buying any deoderant that Mr.
Hogan advertises.
SHIRLEY JONES - The "mom" of the 70's family
sitcom "Partaridge Family" is now a supporter of
Pat Robertsons 700 Club. Gay's & Lesbians should
NOT be watching or buying any products that are
advertised during episodes of 'The Partaridge
Family"
THE JUDDS (NAOMI & WYNONNA) Listen up Gay &
Lesbian Country music fans. This Mother-Daughter
Duo has appeared numerous times on the 700 Club.
And since Wynonna is a supporter of the 700
Club, when she had a "out of wedlock" preganacy,
her support of the 700 Club saved her from
receiving the same criticism that "Murphy Brown"
received several years ago.
Gay & Lesbian Country Music Fans SHOULD NOT
be buying music by "The Judds".
ART LINKLETTER - Former host of "Kids say the
Darnest Things" is a supporter of Pat Robertsons
700 Club and sometimes does commercials for
materess companies. Gay's and Lesbians should
NOT be buying ANY matteress advertized by Mr.
Linkletter (he probably doesn't want people to
thing that a bunch of "Homo's" are fooling
around on his matteresses.)
ROGER McGUINN - Former lead vocal of the 1960's
rock band "The Byrds" who are known for their
hit song "Turn Turn Turn (There is a season)"
Roger McGuinn is a supporter of Pat Robertsons
700 Club.
MELBA MOORE - Former actress and Singer known
for her disco hit "You stepped into my life"
(all you Gay "Disc Jockeys" should remove that
record from your playlist RIGHT NOW!!!) Melba
Moore financially supported the 700 Club so
much, that she ended up on Welfare.
MONISTAT-3 - Feminine product endorsed by 700
Club supporter Kim Alexis (See her name above)
CAROL POTTER - She plays the "mom" on "Beverly
Hills 90210". she is also a supporter of Pat
Robertsons 700 Club. Perhaps, the Gay community
should stop watching the "popular" TV show,
since there are NO GAY characters in it anyway.
THE PROCLAIMERS - These twin brothers known for
their 1993 hit "I'm gonna be (500 miles) are
also supporters of Pat Robertson's 700 Club.
They haven't had a hit song since, but if they
do, Gay's & Lesbians SHOULD NOT buy it.
SMOKEY ROBINSON - Smokey started singing with
the "Miracles" in the 1950's with hits like
"Shop around" & "Tears of a Clown". He became a
Fundementalist Christian after a battle with
Drug Abuse in the late 1980's. Smokey is a
supporter of the 700 Club and the Gay & Lesbian
community should think twice about buying any
music by Smokey or by the Miacles (When he was a
member of the group)
DONNA SUMMER - this Disco Diva of the 1970's
became a Fundementalist Christian in the early
1980's and allegedly made a statement saying
that "God put the AIDS virus on this earth to
punish Homosexuals" Ms. Summer first denied that
she made the statement, then she said that if
she did make the statement, she didn't mean it,
and she apologized for it. Gay people are just
TOO forgiving. Gay & Lesbian dance culbs still
play her music. Maybe Gay & Lesbian D.J.s should
reconsider (since she hasn't supported us.)
MR. T. - Known for his Mohawk haircut, gold
chains and his role on the NBC show "The A-Team"
during the 1980's. Mr. T. is a supporter of Pat
Robertsons 700 Club.
KATHY TRICCOLI - Known for her 1992 Dance hit
"Everyting Changes", which unfortuneately was
played in Many Gay & Lesbian Dance clubs. Miss
Triccoli is a supporter of Pat robertsons 700
Club. Gay & Lesbian D.J.s should remove her
record from their playlist's.
VANITY aka DENISE SMITH - Known for her 1980's
R&B hit "Nasty Girls", Vanity ran to
Fundementalist Christianity after she was dumped
by "The Artist (Formerly known as Prince). She
now records Gospel music and uses her birthname
"Denise Smith and dedicates her life to fighting
"sinners" (like us in the Gay community)
WENDY'S OLD FASHIONED HAMBERGERS - Dave Thomas,
the founder of Wendy's is a supporter of Pat
Robertson's 700 Club, plus recently, Dave Thomas
pulled ads from the "Ellen" show stating that he
didn't want people to think that his resturants
were filled with a bunch of "Homo's"
LISTEN UP GAY COMMUNITY!! Mr. Thomas
doesn't want any Gays or Lesbians or in his
resturants. I suggest that Gay's and Lesbians
NEVER EVER go to Wendy's again until Dave Thomas
apologizes and stops giving money to the 700
Club (and I'm DAMN serious). Go To McDonalds,
Burger King, KFC, Arby's, Taco Bell, White
Castle, but PLEASE DO NOT go to WENDY's
DEMAND WILSON - Best known for his role as
"Lamont" on "Sanford & Son". Demand Wilson is
now a Right-Wing Fundementalist minister and a
supporter of Pat Robertsons 700 Club. If Demand
get's paid everytime they show a rerun of
"Sanford & Son" then Gay's & Lesbians SHOULD NOT
be watching these reruns or buying products
advertized during the show.
------------------------------------------------
NOTE: This is the third (3rd) time that I am
trying to print this article. I'm wondering if
Deja News will print it since Deja News doesn't
mind printing articles from Fundementalists who
slander Gays and they also don't mind printing
Racist articles with offensive Racial slurs that
slander Blacks, Jews and other minorities..
------------------------------------------------
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Mike Silverman
In article <62mp0l$9ut$6...@gte2.gte.net>, revw...@bestsites.net wrote:
> Homosexual boycotts only lead to a boom for those they are boycotting
> against.
>
> Remember when the fags boycotted Colorado skiing?
> the ski resorts had a increase of 4 percent after inflation that year.
>
> Remember when the Christians boycotted Disney?
>
> Hercules was the lowest grossing Disney cartoon feature in 10 years.
> ABC is in last on the ratings wars.
> Christian boycotts work. Fags one do too. For the companies they
> boycott. Please fags... Keep speaking out against these companies...
> Fag boycotts lead to more business.
So when are you going to start your boycott of Microsoft and Apple for
supporting gay rights causes with their donations, and same-sex couples
with domestic partner benefits?
--
Mike Silverman -- cubsfan at turnleft.com -- Lawrence, KS
http://www.turnleft.com/personal
"If you don't know where you want to go, we'll make sure you get taken" --
Microsoft advertisement, translated from Japanese
lac...@webtv.net
In article
<62mnjl$751$1...@newsd-121.bryant.webtv.net>,
mus...@webtv.net (Music Business Monthly) wrote:
> OK, so let's boycott MediaOne for throwing
> a gay producer off the property in Boston...
> and let's boycott The Boston Herald for its
> constant anti-gay position
Thanks for the additions.
> and let's boycott Eddie Murphy who
Oops, I missed another one, thanks for reminding me.
> The biggest enemy we have is ourselves. If you > weren't born gay, would you really be drawn to > the lifestyle by seeing cavorting fairies and
> feiries in TVs and Movies.
> Our agenda should be to have Hollywood
> create good gay role models.
Hey Musicbm , aren't you a fan of David Bowie's, the cross dressing,
makeup wearing drag queen of the late 1970's????
> Put some good looking masculine guys in
> stories of love and hope.
There are MANY "masculine acting" Gay male characters on television
includuing Michael Delaney in "All my Children", Carter Heywood in "Spin
City", and feminine Lesbians on "Friends", to name a few.
The truth is, the Fundementalist's Christians are gonna hate Gays &
Lesbians NO MATTER what we do, or how we act. It doesn't matter wether
or not we act feminine, or masculine. And it doesn't matter wether or not
you are having promiscuous sex, or if you're a virgin. THE FUNDEMENTALIST
ARE GONNA HATE YOU!!!
> It is my theory that Harvey Fierstein has done
> more to hurt the gay community than Pat
> Robertson.
Yeah, Harvey Fierstein preaches hate on
Television, and puts pressure on politicians to
discriminate against gays.
> We need to band together to stop the hatred,
> but there is so much infighting,
You're starting the "in-fighting on this topic. Do you see the
Fundementalist's fighting over wether or not they should boycott Disney,
ABC, AT&T or Apple Computers??? NO. The Fundementalist's don't fight
about it, THEY JUST BOYCOTT!!!!
lac...@webtv.net
In article <cubsfan_fake-ya02408...@207.126.101.83>,
cubsfa...@cjnetworks.com (Mike Silverman) wrote:
>
> In article <62mp0l$9ut$6...@gte2.gte.net>, revw...@bestsites.net wrote:
>
> > Homosexual boycotts only lead to a boom for > > those they are boycotting against.
> So when are you going to start your boycott of > Microsoft and Apple for supporting gay rights > causes with their donations,
Ignore the RevWhite. he is nothing but a angry, nasty mouthed, low-life
piece of garbage anyway. The mainstream Fundemantilist such as Pat
Robertson & Billy Ghaham wouldn't want him in their groups anyway because
of his extremist approach. The RevWhite would probably be an embarrasment
to them, and to their Christianity.
The Fundementalist that I'm worry about are the ones who talk softly
and sugar coat their hatered, and constantly tell you "I love you", "I
care for you" ,"God loves you", "I'm praying for you", the sneaky, slick,
"well meaning" ones like Pat Robertson and Billy Graham, not nasty
loudmouths like RevWhite.
Most of the Fundementalist Christians follow a slick sweettalker like Pat
Robertson, not a nasty, mean spirited vile mouth like RevWhite.
The sweetalkers are more dangerous politically that nasty mouths like the
RevWhite.
Mike Silverman
In article <62oabm$9lu$2...@excalibur.flash.net>, revw...@bestsites.net
(RevWhite) wrote:
> Mosaic Law commands stoning them to death.
You are aware that this does not apply to those who use Netscape instead of
Mosaic.
John Cameron Swayze
>In article <62oabm$9lu$2...@excalibur.flash.net>, revw...@bestsites.net
>(RevWhite) wrote:
>
>
>> Mosaic Law commands stoning them to death.
>
>You are aware that this does not apply to those who use Netscape instead of
>Mosaic.
God does not discern between Internet Browsers; he discerns against
those that violate gender.
anonymous1
In article <62mp0l$9ut$6...@gte2.gte.net>, whit...@hotmail.com says...
>
>Homosexual boycotts only lead to a boom for those they are boycotting
>against.
>
>the ski resorts had a increase of 4 percent after inflation that year.
>
>Remember when the Christians boycotted Disney?
>
>Hercules was the lowest grossing Disney cartoon feature in 10 years.
>ABC is in last on the ratings wars.
>Christian boycotts work. Fags one do too. For the companies they
>boycott. Please fags... Keep speaking out against these companies...
>Fag boycotts lead to more business.
>
>
>In His Service,
>
>RevWhite
>
>http://revwhite.bestsites.net
If homosexuality is indeed inherited and in the genes as they (homos) claim then
God's wisdom is proven. Mosaic Law commands stoning them to death. We
should lobby for state sponsored executions of all of our homosexuals. This
would sanitize the gene pool and vindicate Jehovah's Righteous Laws!
John Cameron Swayze
On 23 Oct 1997 05:57:41 GMT, RevWhite <whit...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Homosexual boycotts only lead to a boom for those they are boycotting
>against.
>
>Remember when the fags boycotted Colorado skiing?
>the ski resorts had a increase of 4 percent after inflation that year.
>
>Remember when the Christians boycotted Disney?
>
>Hercules was the lowest grossing Disney cartoon feature in 10 years.
>ABC is in last on the ratings wars.
>Christian boycotts work. Fags one do too. For the companies they
>boycott. Please fags... Keep speaking out against these companies...
>Fag boycotts lead to more business.
>
>
>--
>In His Service,
>
>RevWhite
>
>http://revwhite.bestsites.net
Not only do we need to boycott homosexuals but we need to lobby for
state executions of homosexuals if our society is to ever progress.
lac...@webtv.net
In article <62oabm$9lu$2...@excalibur.flash.net>,
anony...@anonymous.net (anonymous1) wrote:
>
> If homosexuality is indeed inherited and in
> the genes as they (homos) claim then God's
> wisdom is proven. Mosaic Law commands stoning
> them to death. We should lobby for state
> sponsored executions of all of our
> homosexuals. This would sanitize the gene pool > and vindicate Jehovah's Righteous Laws!
I thought you Fundementalist Christians claimed that you were opposed to
violence against Gays. You are nothing but a bunch of lying, waffleing,
flip-flopping hypocrites like I've been saying for months! Thank you
anonymous1 for proving my point.
_______________________________________________
NO PRIVATE REPLIES! Please post ALL replies in
Public. E-mail is BLOCKED to prevent Spammers,
plus If you have nothing to hide, post it in
PUBLIC
________________________________________________
Mike Silverman
In article <344f7a27...@news.death-penalty-for-homosexuals.net>,
RevWhite wrote:
> Not only do we need to boycott homosexuals but we need to lobby for
> state executions of homosexuals if our society is to ever progress.
Yeah.
Write your congressman.
Mike Silverman
In article <wfoneybj-ya0240800...@news.aa.net>,
wfon...@nn.arg (Jeff Barlow) wrote:
> In article <344f79e4...@news.death-penalty-for-homosexuals.net>,
> swa...@uk.gateway.com wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 23 Oct 1997 15:33:17 -0500, cubsfa...@cjnetworks.com (Mike
> > Silverman) wrote:
> >
> > >In article <62oabm$9lu$2...@excalibur.flash.net>, revw...@bestsites.net
> > >(RevWhite) wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >> Mosaic Law commands stoning them to death.
> > >
> > >You are aware that this does not apply to those who use Netscape instead of
> > >Mosaic.
> >
> > God does not discern between Internet Browsers; he discerns against
> > those that violate gender.
>
> You'd think he'd have bigger and more important things to worry about.
Yeah, like defeating Bill Gates, satan's King on Earth!
:-)
Ward Stewart
anony...@anonymous.net (anonymous1) wrote:
>~If homosexuality is indeed inherited and in the genes as they (homos) claim then
>~God's wisdom is proven. Mosaic Law commands stoning them to death. We
>~should lobby for state sponsored executions of all of our homosexuals. This
>~would sanitize the gene pool and vindicate Jehovah's Righteous Laws!
This is just exactly what Germany tried in the thirties -- one can
only presume that your writing is an endorsement of those policies --
No wonder you post as "anonymous."
ward
***********************************************************
"I am constantly mystified by this notion of "disagreeing"
with homosexuality -- not unlike disagreeing with Tuesday --
like it or not, every seven days, there it is -- TUESDAY.
uncle ward
***********************************************************
lac...@webtv.net
In article <19971024231...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
chri...@aol.com (Chris6pa) wrote:
> As a christian, I am appaulled at your
> suggestion to physically harm Gays.
How can you be appaulled??? That's what happens when you dehumanize
people on a daily basis on shows like the 700 Club stating that gays
DON'T deserve civil rights and stating that gays deserve to be fired from
their jobs, kicked out of their homes and don't deserve to be near
children.
> They are people too and God loves them also.
A Christian
There is still debates in the church about that!
fuck off
how about all in the name of FUN!!!!!!
Robert Schroeder
fax...@wizrealm.com wrote:
>
> Well, if you read some of the gay literature (newspapers, mailings,
> etc.) you would know what they want to do with children. I have seen
> where they want to take children from heterosexual parents, adopt them,
> and be allowed to have sex with them, even at early stages. Printed
> words sure state a lot!
Been reading those pamplets printed by the "Westboro Baptist Church and
Library" of Topeka, KS, eh?
True, gays and lesbians want to be parents, just like anyone else, but
as far as having sex with children, no, that is just not so.
In fact, children living with gay and lesbian couples are often safer
than children living with hetrosexuals.
From what I can tell from your post, the only "printed word" that you
have been reading is pure fiction.
But then, there are the "Christians" that want gays and lesbians stoned
or imprisoned. Or worse, "changed". I should know....I've read it....
Robert
"Bigotry is the bastard child of ignorance." Ghandi
fax...@wizrealm.com
OinK!^_^
This **should** read :
fax...@wizrealm.com wrote:
> Well, **WHEN I** read some of the **ANTI** gay literature (newspapers, mailings,
> etc.) **I BELIVE I** know what they want to do with children. I have **IMAGINED**
> where they want to take children from heterosexual parents, adopt them,
> and be allowed to have sex with them, even at early stages. Printed
> words sure state a lot!
There...doesnt that read better?
RevOinK!
PS-Happy Halloween!
Jacques de Molay
Mr. Boyer.
Thank you for your humility and clarity. It's about time someone on
this NG put in a word for the spirit of the law, instead of arguing
solipsistically about technicalities of doctrine and totally missing the
point of a living, loving relationship with Christ and our fellow human
beings.
Whether homosexuality is "wrong" or not is completely open to
debate. We could argue the evidence back and forth until Christ shows up to
sort us all out (grin). But some things are straghtforward enough : Bigotry.
Hatred. Prejudice. Violence. Assault. Persecution. Murder. These things are
WRONG. Try to justify a pogrom against men and women who practice homosexual
intercourse on the basis of Biblical doctrine, and you're wandering into
very dodgy territory indeed.
Again I thank you for your post.
Yours,
J de M
David Boyer wrote in message <635uul$2gi$1...@winter.news.erols.com>...
:
:lac...@webtv.net wrote in message <8780695...@dejanews.com>...
:>In article <19971024231...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
:
:
:Whoever you are I am a Christian.
:
:Jesus, my Lord and Savior, would never have told a homosexual that what he
:does when he engages in sexual intercourse with an individual of the same
:sex, is right.
:
:Jesus would however have been kind and loving and gentle to them whenever
:they had need.
:
:Only once in the Bible did Christ ever display anger. And that was with
the
:moneychangers in the temple.
:
:He did have compassion on the harlot. He did have compassion on the
:murderer on the cross next to him.
:
:All that say they are of Christ are not. A follower of Christ should never
:under any circumstances be anything other than kind and respectful to any
:other human being.
:
:I as a Christian do not perform that well.
:
:I fall far short.
:
:Much is done in the name of Christ which is not from Him.
:
:Christ is not glorified by this type of behavior. It is painful to listen
:to and to watch.
:
:Christians(true christians) actually ask for God's help with their failings
:and transgressions. We also struggle with them everyday. Many jump on the
:Christianity bandwagon to support their bigotry.
:
:A Christan has love for all men. He sees them as equals.
:We are all equal before God. We all fall short of the perfection required.
:It is for each individual to find the truth in his own heart from the Bible
:before God. With the openness and humility of a little child asking for
:help with wonderment. The intellect is not necessary, just humility.
:
:My conscience is what convicts me of sins. My sin, is between God and me.
:As is every mans. Christians do not have a place in another man's sin.
:Jesus never ran around pointing finger's.
:
:Christians ought to stop it.
:
:As Christian's we need to realize who has the power.
:
:Human weakness cannot handle the power, it is God's.
:
:These are just some thoughts of mine feel free to respond anyone.
:
:David S. Boyer
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
Ron Secor
In article <8780695...@dejanews.com> lac...@webtv.net writes:
>From: lac...@webtv.net
>Subject: Re: Killing Gay's in the name of God (was Re: LET'S BOYCOTT THE ANTI-GAY BIGGOTS!)
>Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 14:21:51 -0600
>In article <19971024231...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
> chri...@aol.com (Chris6pa) wrote:
>> As a christian, I am appaulled at your
>> suggestion to physically harm Gays.
>How can you be appaulled??? That's what happens when you dehumanize
>people on a daily basis on shows like the 700 Club stating that gays
>DON'T deserve civil rights and stating that gays deserve to be fired from
>their jobs, kicked out of their homes and don't deserve to be near
>children.
>> They are people too and God loves them also.
> A Christian
>There is still debates in the church about that!
Well, why not. After all, the Church turned its back on 6,000,000 Jews.
There's a historical precedent, so that must justify it, right?
Wrong.
Ron
Ron Secor
In article <34583E...@wizrealm.com> fax...@wizrealm.com writes:
>From: fax...@wizrealm.com
>Subject: Re: Killing Gay's in the name of God (was Re: LET'S BOYCOTT THE ANTI-GAY BIGGOTS!)
>Well, if you read some of the gay literature (newspapers, mailings,
>etc.) you would know what they want to do with children. I have seen
>where they want to take children from heterosexual parents, adopt them,
>and be allowed to have sex with them, even at early stages. Printed
>words sure state a lot!
That is the single most stupid comment I have read on the internet all year.
And believe me: that is one hell of an achievement.
Ron
Robert Schroeder
Eric Siegel wrote:
>
> On Thu, 30 Oct 1997 fax...@wizrealm.com wrote:
>
> > Well, if you read some of the gay literature (newspapers, mailings,
> > etc.) you would know what they want to do with children.
>
> hatred? Sounds good to me.
>
> Eric Siegel
nahhhh....that would be too easy Eric. It would require some folks to
actually get a heart (and the Wizard gave away the only one he had to a
TinMan, but don't worry, it went to good use) and they might even be
forced to read parts of the Bible other than the "Thou shalt nots...",
and then, only the "Thou shalt nots" that please them.
Nice idea, not a chance.
Rev. Robert
Cathedral of St Mattress
"Do your kneeling on a Sealy..."
Ron Secor
In article <62mp0l$9ut$6...@gte2.gte.net> RevWhite <whit...@hotmail.com> writes:
>From: RevWhite <whit...@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: LET'S BOYCOTT THE ANTI-GAY BIGGOTS!
>Date: 23 Oct 1997 05:57:41 GMT
>Homosexual boycotts only lead to a boom for those they are boycotting
>against.
>Remember when the fags boycotted Colorado skiing?
>the ski resorts had a increase of 4 percent after inflation that year.
>Remember when the Christians boycotted Disney?
>Hercules was the lowest grossing Disney cartoon feature in 10 years.
>ABC is in last on the ratings wars.
>Christian boycotts work. Fags one do too. For the companies they
>boycott. Please fags... Keep speaking out against these companies...
>Fag boycotts lead to more business.
>--
>In His Service,
>RevWhite
>http://revwhite.bestsites.net
Why do I suddenly have this urge to belt out "Onward, Christian Soldiers"?
R.
Eric Siegel
On Thu, 30 Oct 1997 fax...@wizrealm.com wrote:
> Well, if you read some of the gay literature (newspapers, mailings,
> etc.) you would know what they want to do with children.
Raise them with love and care, to be free of bigotry and
hatred? Sounds good to me.
Eric Siegel | "Football embodies the two worst aspects
ejsi...@ucdavis.edu | of modern America: it is violence
Dept. of Political Science | punctuated by committee meetings"
Univ. of California, Davis | -- George Will,
Davis CA 95616 | in Ken Burns's "Baseball"
(916) 752-7106 |
Rev. Donald Spitz
Sodomites continue to harrass and persecute Christians. It's
no wonder The Lord God is going to put them into His Lake of
Fire to be eternally punished.
--
See babies that needed the Reverend Paul Jennings Hill
http://www.christiangallery.com/prolifeva/deadbaby.html
Isaiah 2:22 Cease ye from man, whose breath is in
his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of?
Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found
written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire
Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away:
but my words shall not pass away
Ron Secor <rons...@mechanst.ultranet.com> wrote in article
<ronsecor.1...@mechanst.ultranet.com>...
> In article <8780695...@dejanews.com> lac...@webtv.net writes:
> >From: lac...@webtv.net
> >Subject: Re: Killing Gay's in the name of God (was Re: LET'S BOYCOTT THE
L. Michael Roberts
Rev. Donald Spitz wrote:
>
> Sodomites continue to harrass and persecute Christians. It's
> no wonder The Lord God is going to put them into His Lake of
> Fire to be eternally punished.
So I guess it's sodomites who go to christian newsgroups and post
hatefull notices suggesting christians comit suicide... or its sodomites
who picket at christian funerals.... or sodomites who own radio and TV
stations and daily preach against christians.... or sodomites who are
denying christains equal rights by calling them special rights... or
sodomites.......
+====================== L. Michael Roberts ======================+
This represents my personal opinion and NOT Company policy
Burlington, Ont, Canada - to reply, remove '0spam' from my address
+====================================================================+
Witness
> where they want to take children from heterosexual parents, adopt them,
> and be allowed to have sex with them, even at early stages. Printed
> words sure state a lot!
If you read in the paper that the noontime sun was purple with pink
polkadots, would you believe it? Or would you look at the sun and see
that it's not?
Printed words only state what someone would have you believe.
The Witness
Coronal
L. Michael Roberts wrote:
>
> Rev. Donald Spitz wrote:
> >
> > Sodomites continue to harrass and persecute Christians. It's
> > no wonder The Lord God is going to put them into His Lake of
> > Fire to be eternally punished.
>
> So I guess it's sodomites who go to christian newsgroups and post
> hatefull notices suggesting christians comit suicide... or its sodomites
> who picket at christian funerals.... or sodomites who own radio and TV
> stations and daily preach against christians.... or sodomites who are
> denying christains equal rights by calling them special rights... or
> sodomites.......
In the mind of Rev. Shitz, that goes on all the time.
Paul Duca
Rev. Donald Spitz wrote:
>
> Sodomites continue to harrass and persecute Christians. It's
> no wonder The Lord God is going to put them into His Lake of
> Fire to be eternally punished.
> See babies that needed the Reverend Paul Jennings Hill
> http://www.christiangallery.com/prolifeva/deadbaby.html
>
I wish He wouldn't...then the Lord God could have sex with the
sodomites instead of the babies saved by Paul Hill--or with Donald
Spitz.
Paul
OinK!^_^
Rev. Donald Spitz wrote:
>
> Sodomites continue to harrass and persecute Christians. It's
> no wonder The Lord God is going to put them into His Lake of
> Fire to be eternally punished.
Sweetheart, you did get this wrong--it is ISLAND of Fire, PINES (or
Cherry Grove if you MUST rent!). The only 'punishment' is the occasional
lousy DJ at Boatel...
RevOinK!
L'Eglise de Cette Fille
J.D. Black
}fax...@wizrealm.com wrote:
}>
}> Well, if you read some of the gay literature (newspapers, mailings,
}> etc.) you would know what they want to do with children. I have seen
}> where they want to take children from heterosexual parents, adopt them,
}> and be allowed to have sex with them, even at early stages. Printed
}> words sure state a lot!
}
}
} Why is it when some men are cut off in the bedroom(figuratively)by the
}little woman, they become bitterly obsessed about everyone else still
}fortunate enought to have sex regularly?
}
Unless you are willing to admit to peeping into this person's bedroom
(figuratively). I find it interesting that you even know this information.
--
In the event someone would like to reply to this message via e-mail (who
knows why), remove 'nospam.' in my reply address to get:
jdb...@metronet.com
If there is a final departure of insurance money, obviously that makes a
settlement almost impossible. The President isn't going to pay any money
out of his own pocket.
-- Rober Bennett, Bill Clinton's lead attorney in the Paula Jones case,
after State Farm announced it would no longer pay Clinton's legal bills,
quoted in "The Washington Post"
J.D. Black
In article <Pine.GSO.3.95.971031...@catbert.ucdavis.edu>,
Eric Siegel <ez00...@mailbox.ucdavis.edu> wrote:
}On Thu, 30 Oct 1997 fax...@wizrealm.com wrote:
}
}> Well, if you read some of the gay literature (newspapers, mailings,
}> etc.) you would know what they want to do with children.
}
}Raise them with love and care, to be free of bigotry and
}hatred? Sounds good to me.
}
Sounds good to me...were it true. Unfortunately it often is not.
J.D. Black
In article <345b6ef...@news.enter.net>, wf...@enter.netxx wrote:
}On Thu, 30 Oct 1997 00:01:40 -0800, fax...@wizrealm.com wrote:
}
}>Well, if you read some of the gay literature (newspapers, mailings,
}>etc.) you would know what they want to do with children.
}
}where, however, does this literature say its divinely inspired? where
}does it say its the voice of god?
Why is that relevant?
}and saying that gays are immoral
}because some are pedophiles is like saying all blacks are bad because
}some are criminals. its bigotry.
Is it? When publications (which I question is even true) support said
activity, why is that bigotry?
todd
MrRiddles wrote:
> I hate to say it but the Bible does clearly say it is detestable for a man
> to lay with a man the way a man lays with a woman. And I believe death is
> the punishment somewhere in exodus or leviticus. But we could not have to
> government enforce this. The first amendment says that there will be no
> favor shown to any one organized religion. That raises the question of
> whether or not we should obey the law and not kill gays or obey God and do.
> Everyone I think we all should really put some serious effort in reading the
> pentatuque(The First Five Books Of The Bible).
Am I missing something here. If we are going to follow the Old Testament lets
follow the ten comandments "thou shalt not kill" It does not say thou shalt not
kill heterosexuals or Christians ( which did not exist yet).Christians were
freed from Mosaic law by Jesus Christ ( do you know who he is)
He gave two comandments Can you name them . They are found in the 4 first books
of the New Testament called the Gospels and maybe you should spend some time
studing them.
Peace be with you
Todd K.
Apuleius
Robert Schroeder <mb...@swbell.net> wrote to and
alt.politics.homosexuality:
==
== In fact, children living with gay and lesbian couples are often safer
== than children living with hetrosexuals.
Correction: they're ALWAYS safer. The rate of sex abuse of a girl by a
father -- especially a stepfather -- is very high.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
wf...@enter.netxx
On Sat, 1 Nov 1997 23:43:57 -0600, "MrRiddles" <MrRi...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
That raises the question of
>whether or not we should obey the law and not kill gays or obey God and do.
yes, i can see why you have a problem....
Rev. Donald Spitz
Well, you will have to decide for yourself. Everyone of us will stand
before God one day to give an account of our lives. The Holy Bible is the
only Book that tells us anything about the mind and thoughts of God. When
we stand before God to give an account of our lives, we will be alone. Just
Him and us. The Bible says we will be judged by the things written in the
book. One thing is clear, sodomy is a despictable deed.
--
See babies that needed the Reverend Paul Jennings Hill
http://www.christiangallery.com/prolifeva/deadbaby.html
Isaiah 2:22 Cease ye from man, whose breath is in
his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of?
Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found
written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire
Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away:
but my words shall not pass away
MrRiddles <MrRi...@hotmail.com> wrote in article
<uAz#IJ158...@upnetnews02.moswest.msn.net>...
> I hate to say it but the Bible does clearly say it is detestable for a
man
> to lay with a man the way a man lays with a woman. And I believe death
is
> the punishment somewhere in exodus or leviticus. But we could not have
to
> government enforce this. The first amendment says that there will be no
> favor shown to any one organized religion. That raises the question of
> whether or not we should obey the law and not kill gays or obey God and
do.
Paul Duca
Rev. Donald Spitz wrote:
>
> Well, you will have to decide for yourself. Everyone of us will stand
> before God one day to give an account of our lives. The Holy Bible is the
> only Book that tells us anything about the mind and thoughts of God. When
> we stand before God to give an account of our lives, we will be alone. Just
> Him and us. The Bible says we will be judged by the things written in the
> book. One thing is clear, sodomy is a despictable deed.
> --
Donny's got to worry...there's a trailer up there with his name on it
he doesn't want to lose!
Paul
Apuleius
"MrRiddles" <MrRi...@hotmail.com> wrote to and
alt.politics.homosexuality:
== I hate to say it but the Bible does clearly say it is detestable for a man
== to lay with a man the way a man lays with a woman. And I believe death is
I hate to say it, but it doesn not say that. You're the victim of
homophobic mistranslation and taking things out of context. Leviticus
20 states penalties for offenses defined elsewhere, especially in
chapter 18. In chapter 18 where *male* (not man) lying with *male* is
defined, it is in forbidden in the very clear context of worship of
Molech, and Molech worship is elsewhere associated with male cult
prostitution. So Leviticus forbids male-male sex only because it
assumes such is an idolatrous act of Molech worship.
If there is no idolatrous religious intent to male-male sex, it is not
in violation of Leviticus 18, and it doesn't merit the punishment of
Leviticus 20.
== the punishment somewhere in exodus or leviticus. But we could not have to
== government enforce this. The first amendment says that there will be no
== favor shown to any one organized religion. That raises the question of
== whether or not we should obey the law and not kill gays or obey God and do.
== Everyone I think we all should really put some serious effort in reading the
== pentatuque(The First Five Books Of The Bible).
Again, you're ignoring the context of Leviticus. Leviticus 18 and 20
do NOT define sin in general, but only specific things Israel must not
do in order to be allowed to live in Palestine.
==
==
==
J.D. Black
In article <345ac6ea...@omnifest.uwm.edu>, alg...@Somnifest.uwm.edu
(Apuleius) wrote:
}Robert Schroeder <mb...@swbell.net> wrote to and
}alt.politics.homosexuality:
}
}==
}== In fact, children living with gay and lesbian couples are often safer
}== than children living with hetrosexuals.
}
}Correction: they're ALWAYS safer. The rate of sex abuse of a girl by a
}father -- especially a stepfather -- is very high.
}
Then your correction is wrong. Always is as strong a word as never. To
claim always indicates that you have proof that homophilics never abuse
kids and straights 'always' do. Do you have such proof?
The rate of abuse by fathers is not as high as you hope it is. Unless you
have evidence that 100% of fathers abuse their kids, your always statement
is quite faulty and more evidence that homophilics wish to demonize
anything in opposition to their agenda.
Jeff Barlow
Keep in mind that Spitz and his klan represent only the smallest minority
of Christianity and their hate-filled worship of the God of Law can only be
said to represent their total utter and total anethema to the God of Love
that is taught about in the Bible.
They unfairly try to tie homosexuals to the extreme minority that is
NAMBLA..it is no less unfair for us to tie Christianity to the hateful and
vile words and deeds of the Spitz, Phelps, Robertsons, and Falwells of the
world.
--
Jeff - Seattle USA
jsbarlow at aa.net http://www.aa.net/~jsbarlow
chro...@worldnet.att.net
not so, for whom is your judge the lord?
if the lord does allow this whom are we to judge?
wf...@enter.netxx wrote:
> On Mon, 3 Nov 1997 00:40:53 +0800, "Raymond" <rwk...@chevalier.net>
> wrote:
>
> >>because the argument of xtian homophobes is that all homosexuality is
> >>wrong because the bible says so.
> >
> >You say nothing at all, there are no "xtian"
>
> funny because the term was invented by 3rd century greek xtians. do
> you know your history, xtian?
>
> and Christians know that all
> >homosexuality is wrong!
>
> as they once knew slavery was right?
>
> If it were not, then why not all the homosexual
> >people join their partner in a remote place in the world, and after say one
> >hundred years, there would be none left.
>
> the same can be said about catholic priests.
> .
> >Gays can not be trusted, and should not, at least around children and the
> >helpless. With or with out scriptures.
> >
> prove it. how many young girls are victims of statutory rape? it
> looks like we heterosexuals are the ones who cant be trusted around
> kids. your bigotry is very disgusting
>
> >>i didnt say it was. what i said was pretending this is representative
> >>of gays in general is bigotry. its a latter day form of blood libel.
> >
> >Then unless I read this wrong, it is you that are NOW pretending you
> >represent, the gay in general.
>
> i am not gay; i cant represent them. i can, however, spot bigotry. and
> you're a big spot.
>
> That is just as much bigotry as the other
> >way. I do not know about blood libel, but if the Gays would keep their
> >blood to themselves, we would not have so many with AIDS.
> >
>
> you dont know about blood libel? xtians used to say that jews used the
> blood of xtian children in their 'satanic' rituals. it was one
> justification for the persecution of jews. and xtians, when they want
> to whip up fervor against a group, drag out the idea that 'theyre
> after our children'. they did it with the jews. and theyre doing it
> with gays.
J. Northwood
Rev. Donald Spitz wrote in message <01bf1e71$039e31a0$b1c5f6ce@jtd>...
< snip >
>See babies that needed the Reverend Paul Jennings Hill
Well, at least you're no longer putting the "my friend" in front of his
name.
I mean, he's a convicted murderer, but he doesn't deserve to be dragged
through the mud by association with you, y'know?
Cliff Anchor
Interesting choice of words "HATE to say". Yes, there is certainly
evidence that you DO HATE. In the first place, we do not live our lives
according to Winnie the Pooh. Nor should a book (the Bible) which was the
equivalent of a collection of fairy stories, have any more credibility for
realism. The incidents (Burning Bush) etc., are absurd, as absurd as a man
having sex with his own daughter or God having sex with another man's wife.
The Bible is NOT fact, NOR a textbook and no matter how many times
fanatical XTIANS try and make us believe it, the only thing they succeed in
doing is showing their own misuse of a text to justify their own bigotry.
It is clear that XTIANS have waged wars, still wage wars (Bosnia, Ireland
etc) to force their views on others because they are so narrow minded and
ignorant. They have to let someone else rule their lives, like the hateful
preachers who spread intolerance and ignorance, and ease their consciences
by crossing these false prophets' palms with gold and silver. They go to
church to show off their hats, gold trinkets and pay conscience money to
those charlatans who have never heard from God in their LIFE! The true man
(or woman) of God has love, not hate in their heart and doesn't try to
"prove" others are lesser children of God or more sinful than these
self-righteous bigots.
Cliff Anchor
Jeroen
MrRiddles <MrRi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I hate to say it but the Bible does clearly say it is detestable for a man
> to lay with a man the way a man lays with a woman.
A man does not 'lay' with a man, like a man 'lays' with a woman.
> And I believe death is
> the punishment somewhere in exodus or leviticus. But we could not have to
> government enforce this. The first amendment says that there will be no
> favor shown to any one organized religion. That raises the question of
> whether or not we should obey the law and not kill gays or obey God and do.
I see you have a real dillema there. Sounds like a classical Greek
Tragedy: If you don't obey the law you get punished by the law, if you
don't obey to God, you get punished by God.
For what it's worth: my advise would be to obey the law, and not to kill
innocent people.
J.J.
" - maar wie heeft u ook gezegd, mensen op te
schrokken als oesters, mijn waarde prins Hamlet?"
John Rutledge
In article <jdblack-ya0240800...@newnews.metronet.com>,
J.D. Black <jdb...@metronet.nospam.com> wrote:
>In article <345ac6ea...@omnifest.uwm.edu>, alg...@Somnifest.uwm.edu
>(Apuleius) wrote:
>
>}Robert Schroeder <mb...@swbell.net> wrote to and
>}alt.politics.homosexuality:
>}
>}==
>}== In fact, children living with gay and lesbian couples are often safer
>}== than children living with hetrosexuals.
>}
>}Correction: they're ALWAYS safer. The rate of sex abuse of a girl by a
>}father -- especially a stepfather -- is very high.
>}
>Then your correction is wrong. Always is as strong a word as never. To
>claim always indicates that you have proof that homophilics never abuse
>kids and straights 'always' do. Do you have such proof?
Please re-read what was cliamed. It was not cliam that homosexuals never
abuse children, it was cliamed that homosexuals have a lower rate of
child abuse. Lower rate means that homosexuals are less likely to
abuse children, not that they never abuse children. You seem to be
confusing the hyperbole of "ALWAYS safer" with the actual claim, lower
rate of child abuse.
+---------------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
| | "If only it were a modern document, with |
| John Lawrence Rutledge | a smart index and hyper links stretching |
| Research Assistant | all through the world data net. It was |
| Distributed Multimedia | terribly frustrating to flip back and |
| Systems Lab | forth between the pages and crude flat |
| Computer Science Department | illustrations that never even moved. Nor |
| UMass - Lowell | were there animated arrows or zoom-ins. |
| 1 University Ave. | It completely lacked a feel for sound. |
| Lowell, MA 01854 | "Most baffling of all was the problem |
| | new words... In normal text you'd only |
| | have to touch an unfamiliar word and the |
| jrut...@cs.uml.edu | definition would pop up just below." |
| http://www.cs.uml.edu/~jrutledg | from David Brin's _Earth_ |
+---------------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
Angelface
wf...@enter.netxx wrote:
The bible is all a matter of interpretation, but it really isn't that
difficult to understand if people would quit taking it out of context,
and just read it as it is. Leviticus is the book of laws. They
aren't hard to comprehend, most are just common sense. Leviticus 18
is the chapter of sexual no-no's... God outlaws incest, beastiality,
and homosexuality. It's there in black and white.."Do not lie with a
man as one lies with a woman, that is detestable." It doesn't matter
when it was said, it doesn't matter in what situation, or in what
context, He said it, and I believe it. God destroyed an entire city
(Sodom and Gamorah) for there sexual sins of prostitution and
homosexuality. I have a homosexual friend that I love dearly, and I
would never wish death upon him, but I hope and pray that one day he
will see that he is wrong.
I hope God punishes severely those who call themselves
Christians, but believe that homosexuality is right, and abortion is
right. You need to ask yourselves, am I really a Christian to believe
that God's word isn't true?? Because He isn't far away now. The
world gets more and more evil everyday, just like Sodom and
Gamorah...see the connection?? Get it right NOW, before it's too
late!
Alvine Mbida
I don't hate gay people (in fact, a lot of my closest friends were
gay).....but I do have something against the lifestyle: it's not
natural, and every bible-believing christian knows that it is not from
God.
Eric Holeman
In article <345E182F...@american.edu>,
Alvine Mbida <nm0...@american.edu> wrote:
>God loves all creatures, regardless of what they do.
I'm so relieved.
>Now whether or not
>you're one of his children is the important thing though.
That question is for you to decide?
> God does love gay people, but He also wants them to change their ways
Funny. I chatted with him last week, and he said no such thing.
>(as he does liers and cheaters and fornicators, etc....)
That would include you too, Mr. Mbida, unless you're going to sit there
and tell me that you're without sin.
>they do is an abomination to Him. He cannot stay in the presence of sin,
Doesn't come around your place much then, does He?
Alvine Mbida
Lee wrote:
>
> On Mon, 03 Nov 1997 13:25:04 -0500, Alvine Mbida
> <nm0...@american.edu> wrote:
>
> >> Not natural for you, I'm sure you mean. And, my gods think it's
> >> great.
> >
> >No, I mean not natural for any other animal here on earth......just not
> >natural! Sex was made for people and animals to multiply (and also
> >there's a bonus of pleasure for us humans). Now if two homosexuals were
> >the last humans stuck on a desert island, you know that would be the end
> >of humanity.....is that natural? I think not.
>
> This "not natural" argument is the stupidest one floating around.
> What IS natural? Do you have a definition or are you just throwing
> the word around.
>
> First off some animals DO engage in homosexual sex. DUH! Never lived
> on a farm, right? Well, some of them think it's pretty natural.
>
> Is natural supposed to be superior to unnatural? Well, let's take a
> look.
>
> Natural - poison ivy, the flu, ice storms, bee stings, cockroaches,
> cancer, tornados, arthritis, miscarriage, tooth decay, birth defects,
> poisonous snakes, hurricanes, flies, etc.
>
> Unnatural - driving cars, wearing clothes, typing on computers, living
> in man-made houses, eating processed food, plastic, telephones,
> chairs, mowing grass, getting your hair cut, etc.
>
> Is sex unnatural? Don't think so. Is the sex drive unnatural? Nope.
> Is homosexual sex unnatural? No.
>
> BUT even if it was SO WHAT? Do you really think that would PROVE
> something? There are a whole array of things we do each day that are
> unnatural and no one thinks a think about them. SO EXACTLY WHAT'S
> YOUR PROBLEM?
>
> If you want to argue on homosexuality then you better get more
> ammunition because the natural/unnatural is useless.
> Lee - From beautiful central Indiana
> Practice random acts of kindness and senseless beauty
> hax...@scican.net
You're missing the whole point.......I'm talking about a Christian
perspective, and not trying to argue with you because whatever I say
will seem foolish to you (as the Bible clearly states). The Bible says
it's unnatural, and everybody knows that.....even you do deep down. Just
accept that it's not right and you'll see you'll breath a lot better
instead of trying to prove yourself to everyone. I'm not at all
aggressive about all this so I really don't see why you should be....but
then again, that is a natural reaction isn't it?
Paul Duca
Rev. Donald Spitz wrote:
>
> --
> See babies that needed the Reverend Paul Jennings Hill
>
> Isaiah 2:22 Cease ye from man, whose breath is in
> his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of?
>
> Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found
> written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire
>
> Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away:
> but my words shall not pass away
>
things that ultimately have no relevance to our existence. I try to
understand that it's only because He didn't give you a big house and a
lot of money...and that screaming on the Internet is better than kicking
and slapping your wife.
Paul
L. Michael Roberts
Alvine Mbida wrote:
<snip>
>
> I'm not condemning anybody, I'm just saying you cannot claim to serve
> the God of the bible completely if you are in that lifestyle, and He
> can definitely help you out of it, or else the Bible is one big lie.
You hit the nail on the head! An over 1,000 year old book that has
been handed down through many generations... 'translated' from the
original [lost] language by people who had an axe to grind.
+====================== L. Michael Roberts ======================+
This represents my personal opinion and NOT Company policy
Burlington, Ont, Canada - to reply, remove '0spam' from my address
+====================================================================+
Rev. Donald Spitz
--
See babies that needed the Reverend Paul Jennings Hill
http://www.christiangallery.com/prolifeva/deadbaby.html
Isaiah 2:22 Cease ye from man, whose breath is in
his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of?
Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found
written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire
Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away:
but my words shall not pass away
dsg5 <ds...@flash.net> wrote in article
<01bce852$3d19e200$39d0...@dsg5.flash>...
>
>
> MrRiddles <MrRi...@hotmail.com> wrote in article
> <uAz#IJ158...@upnetnews02.moswest.msn.net>...
> > I hate to say it but the Bible does clearly say it is detestable for a
> man
> > to lay with a man the way a man lays with a woman.
>
> So what? The Bible is a joke anyway.
>
> --dsg
>
>
Jeroen
Alvine Mbida <nm0...@american.edu> wrote:
>
> You're missing the whole point.......I'm talking about a Christian
> perspective, and not trying to argue with you because whatever I say
> will seem foolish to you (as the Bible clearly states).
And why is it 'foolish' to us? Why do the things you say seem foolish to
'normal' intelligent human beings??
> The Bible says
> it's unnatural, and everybody knows that.....even you do deep down.
Nope. I don't get it.
> Just
> accept that it's not right and you'll see you'll breath a lot better
> instead of trying to prove yourself to everyone. I'm not at all
> aggressive about all this so I really don't see why you should be....but
> then again, that is a natural reaction isn't it?
You're contradicting yourself here. If being aggresive is 'natural'
(what a world that would be) and you're NOT being aggresive, you're
behaving "unnatural". May you burn in hell for not being aggresive.
lac...@webtv.net
WILLIE AAMES - Known for his role as the 2nd eldest brother on "Eight is
Enough" and as Scott Baio's sidekick on "Charles in Charge". Willie is
now a supporter of Pat Robertsons 700 Club.
KIM ALEXIS - The former fitness guru is a
frequent guest on Pat Robertsons 700 Club and
speaker at the Republican Party. She now does
commercials for "Monistat-3".
FRED BERRY - You may remember him as "Re-run"
from "What's Happening". He is now a "Born
again" Christian Rap artist and a supporter of
Pat Robertsons. It's also amazing that with all
the talk about Family Values and the "Promise
Keepers" that Fred Berry abandoned his son for
Many years (would Dan Quayle approve of that???)
TIFFANY BRISSETTE - Known for her role as a girl robot on the 1980's
comedy TV show "Small Wonder" is now a supporter of the 700 Club.
KIRK CAMERON - The former "Growing Pains" star
who played the rebellious teenager "Mike Seaver"
is a supporter of Pat Robertson's. While on the
"700 Club", Mr. Cameron had the nerve to
criticize "Married with Children" for being a
anti-social sitcom (perhaps Mr. Cameron should
watch "Growing Pains" again and look at some of
the mischief "Mike Seaver" has done) Kirk now
stars in his new show titled "Kirk" which is now shown on the WB network.
SHANNEN DOERTY - The former star of "Beverly
Hills 90210" is a sraunch conservative and a
supporter of the 700 Club. Ms. Doerty was proven
to be a hypocrite when she divorced her husband
Ashley Hamilton (the son of golden tanned
"George Hamilton") after only being married to
him for two weeks (wow, talk about Family
Values)
BOB DYLAN - Former 1970's rock artist who became a Fundementalist
Christian after a auto accident over 20 years ago is a supporter of the
700 Club and now records Christian music.
KIM FIELDS - Formerly known as "Tooty" on the
"Facts of Life" she is a supporter of Pat
Robertsons 700 Club and now stars on her new
show "Living Single" on FOX television.
ANNETTE FUNICELLO - This former Mousekateer now
spends her time boycotting the company she once
worked for, Disney.
AMY GRANT - Pop artist known for hits song like "Baby Baby" and her
current hit "It takes a little time" is also a supporter of the 700 Club.
In 1991, Amy grant came under fire from some in the Fundementalist
community because she was singing "worldly songs" instead of the
Christian songs that she used to sing, but most in the Christian
community still support her no matter what kind of music she sings.
AL GREEN - Best known for his 1970's R&B hit
"Let's stay together". Al Green is now a Gospel
Artist and a supporter of Pat Robertson's 700
Club.
GRANT GOODEVE - Mr. Goodeve portrayed the eldest
brother on the 1970's family sitcom "Eight is
Enough". Several years later, he played a Gay
attorney on "Dynasty". Mr. Goodeve is now a
supporter of the 700 Club and sometimes host's
it when Pat is on Vacation.
MICHAEL GROSS - The former father on the 80's
sitcom "Family Ties" is now a supporter of Pat
Robertson's 700 Club and now does work for a
Right Wing organization that claims to feed
starving children in 3rd world countries.
M.C. HAMMER - Best known for his 1990 Rap song "You cant touch this" (a
ripoff of the transgendered Rick James "Superfreak") M.C. Hammer is now a
supporter of Pat Robertsons 700 Club and was a Christian Rap artist until
he was denouned by some in the Fundementalist community for his explicid
lyrics in a song called "She's soft & wet". M.C. Hammer recently changed
his music to a more "Hard Core" sound to compete with other Rap artists
like "Puff Daddy" and "WuTang Clan", but still holds on to his
Fundementalist Christian faith.
CHARELTON HESTON - Known for his role as "Moses"
in many religious films and as Alexis Colby's
Brother-in-Law on "Dynasty". Mr. Heston is a
supporter of Pat Robertson's and the Christian
Coalition.(Not to mention a member of the NRA)
HULK HOGAN - Former WWF Wrestler who was
seriously hurt during a match and sent to the
hospital several years ago where he was
converted to Fundementalist Christianity is now
a supporter of Pat Robertson's 700 Club. Mr.
Hogan also does commercials for Deoderant
companies.
ANN JILLIAN - Movie Actress who also played a
ghost in a 1980's comedy sitcom is a supporter
of Pat Robertsons 700 Club.
SHIRLEY JONES - The "mom" of the 70's family
sitcom "Partaridge Family" is now a supporter of
Pat Robertsons 700 Club.
THE JUDDS (NAOMI & WYNONNA) This Mother-Daughter
Duo has appeared numerous times on the 700 Club.
And since Wynonna is a supporter of the 700
Club, when she had a "out of wedlock" preganacy,
her support of the 700 Club saved her from
receiving the same criticism that "Murphy Brown"
received several years ago.
ART LINKLETTER - Former host of "Kids say the
Darnest Things" is a supporter of Pat Robertsons
700 Club and sometimes does commercials for
materess companies.
ROGER McGUINN - Former lead vocal of the 1960's
rock band "The Byrds" who are known for their
hit song "Turn Turn Turn (There is a season)"
Roger McGuinn is a supporter of Pat Robertsons
700 Club.
MELBA MOORE - Former actress and Singer known
for her disco hit "You stepped into my life"
Melba Moore financially supported the 700 Club
so much, that she ended up on Welfare.
TIA & TAMARA MOWRY - These twins who star in
their TV sitcom called "Sister Sister" are also
supporters of Pat Robertsons 700 Club.
EDDIE MURPHY - Although he's a left-winger, he
still is as anti-gay as the right-wingers on
this list. This former stand-up comedian turned
actor has done many anti-gay stand-up routines.
depiciting violence against Gays.
Eddie was recently caught driving a
transexual prostitute in his car and he denied
that he ever did anything with him/her.
CAROL POTTER - She plays the "mom" on "Beverly
Hills 90210". she is also a supporter of Pat
Robertsons 700 Club.
THE PROCLAIMERS - These twin brothers known for
their 1993 hit "I'm gonna be (500 miles) are
also supporters of Pat Robertson's 700 Club.
REV. RUN - Former Rapper for the 1980's rap
group "RUN D.M.C." known for their hit song
"Walk this way" which they copied from
Aerosmith. Rev. Run is now a Fundemtalist
Christian Minister who now does Christian Rap
music.
FRED ROGERS - Host of the PBS Childrens show
"Mr. Rogers Neighborhood" is also a supporter of the 700 Club.
JAKE ROSNER - Fitness guru who has his own cable fitness show called
"Body By Jake" is also a supporter of the 700 Club and once had a TV
sitcom on the Family Channel.
SMOKEY ROBINSON - Smokey started singing with
the "Miracles" in the 1950's with hits like
"Shop around" & "Tears of a Clown". He became a
Fundementalist Christian after a battle with
Drug Abuse in the late 1980's. Smokey is a
supporter of the 700 Club.
DR. LAURA SCHLESSINGER - Radio talk show host
who gives out relationship and romance advice
has expressed the gay "lifestyle" as "Abnormal"
Listen to Dr. Judy instead.
DONNA SUMMER - this Disco Diva of the 1970's became a Fundementalist
Christian in the early 1980's and allegedly made a statement saying that
"God put the AIDS virus on this earth to punish Homosexuals" Ms. Summer
first denied that she made the statement, then she said that if she did
make the statement, she didn't mean it, and she apologized for it. She
must have figured out that Gay people were buying most of her records.
MR. T. - Known for his Mohawk haircut, gold
chains and his role on the NBC show "The A-Team"
during the 1980's. Mr. T. is a supporter of Pat
Robertsons 700 Club.
NEDRA TALLEY - Former vocalist for the 1960's rock-n-roll group "The
Ronnettes" know for their hit song "Be my little Baby". Nedra is now
married to Fundemntalist Music critic Scott Ross and is also a supporter
of the 700 Club.
KATHY TRICCOLI - Known for her 1992 Dance hit
"Everyting Changes", which unfortuneately was
played in Many Gay & Lesbian Dance clubs. Miss
Triccoli is a supporter of Pat robertsons 700
Club.
VANITY aka DENISE SMITH - Known for her 1980's R&B hit "Nasty Girls",
Vanity ran to Fundementalist Christianity after she was dumped by her
ex-boyfriend "The Artist" (Formerly known as Prince). She now records
Gospel music and uses her birthname "Denise Smith and dedicates her life
to fighting "sinners" (like us in the Gay community)
DAVE THOMAS - the founder of Wendy's is a
supporter of Pat Robertson's 700 Club, plus
recently, Dave Thomas pulled ads from the
"Ellen" show stating that he didn't want people
to think that his resturants were filled with a
bunch of "Homo's"
DEMOND WILSON - Best known for his role as
"Lamont" on "Sanford & Son". Demand Wilson is
now a Right-Wing Fundementalist minister and a
supporter of Pat Robertsons 700 Club.
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Cliff Anchor
Well, Mr. Riddles or Widdles (whatever) before you start using the Bible to
promote your Hate, why don't you look at the sins in your OWN CHURCH? Like
the Oakland Baptist Church child molestations of little girls by those
clergy who claimed GAYS did these things. What it is a case of Mr. Widdles,
is the filth and garbage in your religionist minds being projected onto
others, in order to draw attention to what is happening to the children who
attend your churches! Before you get on your soap box, clean up your own
Baptist Church
and when you are able to walk on water, come back and preach!
frank w elliott jr
Alvine Mbida (nm0...@american.edu) wrote:
: I don't hate gay people (in fact, a lot of my closest friends were
: gay)
Southern racists used to say "some of my best friends are niggers."
:.....but I do have something against the lifestyle: it's not
There is no one gay lifestyle. Some gay people are celibate, some
monogamous, and some promiscuousl.
: natural, and every bible-believing christian knows that it is not from
: God.
And I suppose that the Christian persecution of homosexuals is?
If Christ returned today, Christians would gay-bash him.
:
Gay Christian
Leviticus 19:19
"You shall keep My statutes. You shall not let your livestock breed with
another kind. You shall not sow your field with mixed seed. NOR SHALL A
GARMENT OF MIXED LINEN AND WOOL COME UPON YOU".
These things are definitely defined as sin in the bible. There are an awful
lot of sinners out there. Better go check your closet and get rid of those
garments that don't say 100% on the lable!
Peace and Blessings
Gay Christian
Alvine Mbida <nm0...@american.edu> wrote in article
<345E182F...@american.edu>...
> God loves all creatures, regardless of what they do. Now whether or not
> you're one of his children is the important thing though. God does love
> gay people, but He also wants them to change their ways (as he does
> liers and cheaters and fornicators, etc....) because what they do is an
> abomination to Him. He cannot stay in the presence of sin, and
> homosexuality is definitely defined as a sin in the bible.
>
>
George M. Carter
Alvine Mbida <nm0...@american.edu> wrote:
>No, I mean not natural for any other animal here on earth......just not
>natural! Sex was made for people and animals to multiply (and also
>there's a bonus of pleasure for us humans). Now if two homosexuals were
>the last humans stuck on a desert island, you know that would be the end
>of humanity.....is that natural? I think not.
Perfectly natural! By the way, I think heterosexuality on an
overpopulated planet is a psychosocial disorder. Too damn many humans.
Homosexuality is a wonderful way to reduce population pressures, so it
is very natural. And the wonderful feelings of arousal I feel at the
sight of certain men is completely natural.
But so are all kinds of other species-destroying events. Nature, like
your bible, is not always nice.
George M. Carter
Alvine Mbida
George M. Carter wrote:
> Alvine Mbida <nm0...@american.edu> wrote:
>
> >You're missing the whole point.......I'm talking about a Christian
> >perspective, and not trying to argue with you because whatever I say
> >will seem foolish to you (as the Bible clearly states). The Bible says
> >it's unnatural, and everybody knows that.....even you do deep down.
>
> Nonsense. You do not represent the entire spectrum of xtian
> perspective. (I'm agnostic but refer to friends--even those of the
> cloth--who feel being gay is as natural as being left-handed!)
> "Everybody" does not include me, therefore everybody "knows" that is
> already wrong....
>
> George M. Carter
Often what feels natural isn't always natural.....we really cannot rely too
much on our feelings. I meant deep down, everybody knows. I have a ton of
friends who either were gay or still are, who just don't feel completely
right about it...
Besides, I'm not trying to debate with anybody...just saying what the Bible
says...
Lee
>>No, I mean not natural for any other animal here on earth......just not
>>natural! Sex was made for people and animals to multiply (and also
>>there's a bonus of pleasure for us humans). Now if two homosexuals were
>>the last humans stuck on a desert island, you know that would be the end
>>of humanity.....is that natural? I think not.
Robert
"Gay Christian" <jmccj...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
>I hate to say it but the Bible does clearly say:
>"If a woman has a discharge, and the discharge from her body is blood, she
>shall be set apart seven days; and whoever touches her shall be unclean
>until evening.
>Leviticus 15:19
>"But if she is cleansed of her discharge, then she shall count for herself
>seven days, and after that she shall be clean. And on the eighth day she
>shall take for herself two turtle-doves or two young pigeons, and bring
>them to the priest, to the door of the tabernacle of meeting. Then the
>priest shall offer the one as a sin offering and the other as a burnt
>offering, and the priest shall make atonement for her before the Lord for
>the discharge of her uncleanness".
>Verses 28-30
>I don't recall seeing this happen lately. Are those women sinners because
>they haven't followed the law as stated in Leviticus? On whose authority
>are they departing from this scripture? Any answers??? Anyone?????????
Deut 22:28 even instructs that an unbetrothed rape victim should be compelled to
marry her rapist and stay with him forever. So why do we lock-up rapists,
rather than compelling them to marry their victims??
The gospel of Jesus Christ clearly states Gal 3:25, "Now that faith (In Christ)
has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law." Paul even adds a
warning to Christians who put their faith in the law rather than in Christ, Gal
5:4 "You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from
Christ; you have fallen away from grace." The logical problem with any pick and
choose approach to the Mosaic Law, is that we live in a patriarchal society that
is nevertheless not quite as patriarchal as the one that produced the Law. So
while we are somewhat embarrassed by some of the demands of the Law, and try and
work our way around them, we nevertheless are quick to affirm that, unlike them,
those sections that still suit our own personal and cultural prejudices are of
more permanent value, and so they must remain in effect. We seem to consider
ourselves civilized and enlightened Christians to the extent that we finally
recognize certain parts of the law to be unjust or long-outdated, but it seems
we are rarely enlightened enough to recognize cultural prejudices that have
outlived their value in our own time.
But to be a Christian, and to be salt and light in a lost world, means precisely
to have the courage to do the latter - to be able to distinguish the written
from the Living Word of God, the law of Moses from the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Our righteousness as Christians must ultimately be something higher than the
legalistic righteousness ascribed to the scribes and Pharasee. : Mat 5:20
"Except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and
Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.". Our
sanctification in Christ, means acting within the parameters of His love - not
pretending that as long as we obey (or inflict upon others) those parts of the
Mosaic law we still consider to be valid, that we are becoming like Christ. To
be a Christian is to be guided by His love and the Living Word of God - even if
that brings us to a place that results in our persection and condemnation at the
hands of those who call themselves the religious authorities of our time,
because it goes against their own self-serving and legalistic interpretation of
the written word of scripture. Because in the same way and for the same reason
Jesus Christ was also persecuted by the religious authorities of His day.
cheers,
Robert
John Rutledge
In article <63lsrv$snu$1...@artemis.backbone.ou.edu>, Jeff <jms...@ou.edu> wrote:
>As for the book not having any credibility. If you discredit the bible on a
>purely historical sense(having no opinions on the supernatural aspects of
>it) you have to discredit nearly every ancient writing. I don't remember
>many details, but I read somewhere (might have seen it on the discovery
>channel now that I think about it) that on the most common scale for rating
>a books historical accuracy (how it compares to the original, not
>necessarily it's facility) the bible is by far the first on the list. To
>defend what it says you have to match up the things that can be confirmed
>(wars, kings...). Once these are shown to be true, and nothing else
>absolutely proven false, one must look at the feasibility of the rest
>(mainly the supernatural occurrence). This is much aided by being able to
>see the changes God has made in peoples lives. Looking at the complexity of
>life and the universe it is not too hard to assume an intelligent creator
Actually the Koran rates far better than the Bible by this criteria.
Both the Old and New Testimates were passed by oral tradition for
many years. The OT was written in its final form in the Babylian Exile
and the NT was pass around orally for several decades before being
written down. We can only assume that what is in the Bible were the
actual stories as originally told. We can never really know this
for sure. Thus, the Bible cannot be judged with any strong degree
of certainity by the "how well is it true to the original" criteria.
The originals, being oral traditions, died with the original story
tellers.
Also, the final forms of both Testimates were decided by people who
lived generations after the events took place. These people had no
personal know that any of the events were true to their original
tellings. And again, we can only assume these people had the correct
knowledge to decide which of these oral traditions were real and
which were forgeries.
In contrast, the Koran is made up of actual transcriptions of the
teaching of Mahamed. People were writting down what Mahamed said
while he was stating it and these writtings became the Koran. At no
time was any part of the Koran passed by oral tradition. And, the
people who decided on the final form of the Koran had personal
knowledge of Mahamed and his teachings. We know for sure that Koran
actually contains what Mahamed said. And, we know that the people
deciding on the its final content knew enough to determine any
forgeries.
As for the actual accurancy of the stories in the Bible, many are
contradicted by archeological evidence. The list of conquests by
the OT Kings is often contradicted by evidence. Many of the cities
conquered could not have been at the time given. For instance,
one king managed to conquer a city which was destroyed many years
before his birth and another city that wasn't founded until years
after his death. The OT has one army equipted with weapons that
would not be invented for decades.
Also, the prime mover arguement has one fatal flaw. The intelligent
creator, being more complex than the Universe, also needs a creator.
Similarly, the creator's creator needs a creator. All the prime
mover arguement does is add a layer of complexity without addressing
the original question - how did the first thing (universe or being)
come into existance without a creator.
Jeff Barlow
In article <345F47BA...@american.edu>, Alvine Mbida
<nm0...@american.edu> wrote:
Everybody knows.....everybody knows....
You know what Alvine? That's getting really tiring.
Maybe everybody in your circle of friends THINKS what you believe is
correct, but you are certainly stepping beyond your boundaries when you
project your opinions into other peoples minds!
> Besides, I'm not trying to debate with anybody...just saying what the Bible
> says...
Well, at least you obviously aren't trying to tell us what Jesus said about
homosexuality. There really ought to be a separate religous group for
people who are more focused on Biblical law than the words of Jesus
Christ...Biblicans??? Old Testamentians???
--
Jeff - Seattle USA
jsbarlow at aa.net http://www.aa.net/~jsbarlow/me.html <-----New!
George M. Carter
Alvine Mbida <nm0...@american.edu> wrote:
>Often what feels natural isn't always natural.....we really cannot rely too
>much on our feelings. I meant deep down, everybody knows. I have a ton of
>friends who either were gay or still are, who just don't feel completely
>right about it...
>Besides, I'm not trying to debate with anybody...just saying what the Bible
>says...
Fiddle-dy-dee, Rhett. Leviticus claims all types of things are not
"natural." If you restrict your definition of that term to a multiply
translated edition, then you risk being in enormous error. Why not
restrict the defintion to common parlance.
In any event, I know some straight people who don't feel completely
right about their heterosexuality. These crises of confidence usually
occurred the next morning whilst having breakfast hearing of their
ex-girlfriends, wives, and so forth....I guess they found some very
natural behaviors with me! And some of them were even pretty good,
too, despite the common recognition of the selfishness and inadequacy
of most straight men in the sack.
George M. Carter
Rev Larry Beedlebaum
On Tue, 04 Nov 1997 02:33:39 -0600, lac...@webtv.net wrote:
>LIST OF FAMOUS ANTI-GAY BIGGOTS! (Updated)
Wrong title gay person!
I really appreciate this list you posted. It lets me know that even
though Jews have infiltrated Hollywood they haven't been able to
corrupt everyone yet. Thanks for the community service!
LIST OF FAMOUS PEOPLE THAT HAVEN'T BEEN SOILED BY THE FILTH OF
HOLLYWOOD AND ITS HOMOSEXUAL POLITICS:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Laconia chooses to bad mouth the 700 Club in the majoity of his/her
list. I winder if he/she has read all the Anti-Christian material the
Jewish ADL (Anti Defamation League) has at its web site concerning the
"right wing religious extremists" of which they name Pat Robertson and
the Christian Coalition as being "bad."
Rev Larry Beedlebaum
lac...@webtv.net
In article <345fe7c7....@news.jews4jesus.net>,
beedl...@holysmoke.net wrote:
>
> I really appreciate this list you posted. It
> lets me know that even though Jews have
> infiltrated Hollywood
Why are you bashing Jews? What do they have to do with this? I thought
Christians allways stick up for Jewsish Americans (or do Christians only
stick up for them when Farrakahn attacks them?)
Don't you know that a large percentage of the Jewish community is
conservative like the Fundementalist Christian Right???
Also, if you read the list carefully, I named Dr. Laura, a conservative
Radio talk show host who is Jewish.
> they haven't been able to corrupt everyone
> yet. Thanks for the community service!
>
> LIST OF FAMOUS PEOPLE THAT HAVEN'T BEEN SOILED > BY THE FILTH OF HOLLYWOOD AND ITS HOMOSEXUAL
> POLITICS:
Did you read the list carefully? There are RE: post from other Christians
who complained that most of the people on my list are NOT "real
Christians and that a "real Christian" would NOT involve themself in the
"sinful" glamour of Hollywood. You also forgot to remove Eddid Murphy's
name, he was caught driving a Transexual Prostitute in his car, plus he
started his career speaking "filth" during his stand up comic routines.
And you also didn't remove Donna Summer who "allegedly" apologized to Gay
people about her statement (and even denied that she said them) because
she discovered that Gay People were buying most of her records. And you
forgot to remove M.C. Hammer who changed his rap music to more "filthy"
music because Christian Rap music wasn't selling good.
> WILLIE AAMES
> KIM ALEXIS
> FRED BERRY
> TIFFANY BRISSETTE
> KIRK CAMERON
> SHANNEN DOERTY
> BOB DYLAN
> KIM FIELDS
> ANNETTE FUNICELLO
> AMY GRANT
> AL GREEN
> GRANT GOODEVE
> MICHAEL GROSS
> M.C. HAMMER
> CHARELTON HESTON
> HULK HOGAN
> ANN JILLIAN
> SHIRLEY JONES
> THE JUDDS (NAOMI & WYNONNA)
> JACK LALANNE
> ART LINKLETTER
> ROGER McGUINN
> MELBA MOORE
> TIA & TAMARA MOWRY
> EDDIE MURPHY
> CAROL POTTER
> THE PROCLAIMERS
> REV. RUN (Former Rapper for "RUN D.M.C.)
> FRED ROGERS
> JAKE ROSNER
> SMOKEY ROBINSON
> DR. LAURA SCHLESSINGER
> DONNA SUMMER
> MR. T.
> NEDRA TALLEY
> KATHY TRICCOLI
> VANITY aka DENISE SMITH
> DAVE THOMAS
> DEMOND WILSON
> Laconia chooses to bad mouth the 700 Club in
> the majoity of his/her list.
That's because it's the Christian Right and the 700 Club that is on
television spewing most of the Anti-Gay hate and biggotry. When another
group or another TV show comes on that attacks Gays, I will "Bad Mouth"
them too.
> I winder if he/she has read all the
> Anti-Christian material the Jewish ADL (Anti
> Defamation League) has at its web site
Why would I??? I am a representative of the Gay community.
> concerning the "right wing religious
> extremists" of which they name Pat Robertson
> and the Christian Coalition as being "bad."
I winder if the Rev. Beedlebaum has read the anti-gay material on the
godhatesfags website, or read the posts on the web telling Gays to kill
themselves? And I winder if Rev. Beedlebaum has heard about the protests
by Christians at Gay Peoples funerals and at Bill Clintons Mothers
funeral?? And I winder if Rev. Beedlebaun has read the Anti-Black,
anti-hispanic, and Anti-Jewish literature that the Klan and Nazi
Skinheads have put on the web and on paper??? And I also winder if the
Rev. Beedlebaum has listened to the Anti-Black, Anti-Hispanic, Anti-Asian
hatespeech that is done by conservative right-wing radio talk show hosts
on AM radio everyday??
And as far as the relatioinship between Christians and Jews is concerned,
I remember hearing that the ADL apologized for the things that they said
about Pat Robertson and that some members of the ADL were at the
convention of the Christian Coalition and now Conservative Christians and
Jews were all getting along. Plus, I heard Pat Robertson sticking up for
the ADL when Louis Farrakahn attacked them.
MOKEY ROBINSON
> DR. LAURA SCHLESSINGER
Nick Santoro
Well now NATIONWIDE in elections from coast to coast! FAGGOTS LOSE! You
CAN Be discriminated against as in TEXAS which refused to allow (BY
POPULAR VOTE) to make it illegal for places of buisness to not hire or
fire FAGS Just because they are FAGS!!
In other words if you Prance into a place of buisness to fill out an
application and your little wrist is limp and your colon is dragging out
of your ass you cant sue the buisness because they did not hire you
because your a FLAMING FAGGOT!!!
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH NO ONE WANTS YOU!!! GOD IS KILLING
YOU In RECORD NUMBERS!!!
TURN OR BURN FAG!!!
++++++ REPLY TO ME AT +++++++
Then_____Visit The Sites Below and be Edumacated
http://206.160.206.77/pages/alan.html <---This site CAN Cure your
GAYNESS!
Leviticus 18:22 Tells of a faggots future
Vafancullo'
Paul Duca
> ++++++ REPLY TO ME AT +++++++
>> LARRY...@JUNO.COM
>
> Then_____Visit The Sites Below and be Edumacated
>
> HTTP://WWW.GODHATESFAGS.COM
>
> http://206.160.206.77/pages/alan.html <---This site CAN Cure your
> GAYNESS!
>
> Leviticus 18:22 Tells of a faggots future
>
Visit a garbage dump and see where Nick Santoro/Larry Harris'
many-roomed mansion will be sited.
Paul
Jeff Barlow
In article <01bcea79$cc399740$3ecbe3cf@993110h>, "Gay Christian"
<jmccj...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
> So Adam and Eve were sinners too. They never had a wedding therefore, they
> were not married! I don't need a license from the state to be married in
> the eyes of God. I am married to my homosexual (oh my) partner. We DO have
> a wonderful love for each other and have a regular life just like straights
> do. Yes, we go to the grocery store. We cook. We clean the house. See,
> we're not so different after all!
I'd like to highly recommend Bruce Bawer's new book "Stealing Jesus: How
Fundamentalism Betrays Christianity" for some excellent insight into the
theology of the Christian far-right as well as some very intelligent
insight that shows Christianity to be a religion of love for everyone and
not one of hate for anyone that is different, as many would like it to be.
Rev. Donald Spitz
Do all sodomites spend eternity in Hell-Fire? The answer
is Yes they do, unless they turn from their wicked sins
and accept the Lord Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior
and submit to Him.
--
See babies that needed the Reverend Paul Jennings Hill
http://www.christiangallery.com/prolifeva/deadbaby.html
Isaiah 2:22 Cease ye from man, whose breath is in
his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of?
Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found
written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire
Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away:
but my words shall not pass away
Cliff Anchor <NOSPAM...@wclynx.com> wrote in article
<01bce8dd$943eeea0$eaba2ccf@pentium>...
> Well, Mr. Riddles or Widdles (whatever) before you start using the Bible
to
Witness
George M. Carter wrote:
>
> Alvine Mbida <nm0...@american.edu> wrote:
>
> >You're missing the whole point.......I'm talking about a Christian
> >perspective, and not trying to argue with you because whatever I say
> >will seem foolish to you (as the Bible clearly states). The Bible says
> >it's unnatural, and everybody knows that.....even you do deep down.
>
> Nonsense. You do not represent the entire spectrum of xtian
> perspective. (I'm agnostic but refer to friends--even those of the
> cloth--who feel being gay is as natural as being left-handed!)
> "Everybody" does not include me, therefore everybody "knows" that is
> already wrong....
>
> George M. Carter
I believe he is saying that 'everybody knows' that the Bible says it's
unnatural.
Do you not believe that the Bible states this? If not, let me inform
you...
-------------------------------------
"Do not practice homosexuality; it is a detestable sin." Leviticus
18:22
"That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the
women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in
sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual
relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did
shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within
themselves the penalty they so richly deserved." Romans 1:26-27
-------------------------------------
So you see, God has condemned homosexual sex.
I should point out that it *is* natural for men to love one another. In
fact, Jesus commanded us to love each other! I myself feel a deep love
for many of my male friends.
However, love is not synonymous with sex. The two are entirely
different aspects of a relationship. If you practice homosexual sex,
you are committing three sins: promiscuity outside of marriage, lust
outside of marriage, and homosexuality.
Does that mean that homosexuality is OK if you're abstaining from sex?
Yes and no. If you love another man, that's just fine. That's a normal
relationship, and in reality it's not homosexuality at all. But if you
have any lustful desire within you, you are sinning! That goes for
heterosexuals, too, it's not some plot against gay people! For Jesus
said, "...anyone who even looks with lust in his eye has already
committed adultery with her in hi heart." (Matthew 5:28)
If lust is synonymous with adultery, and anyone who has looked on a
woman with lust suffers equally with one who actually has had sex with
her, then how much worse is it for the homosexual! Do not equate love
with sex! The two have different purposes, though sex was never meant
to exist without love!
God's Peace be With You
The Witness
Rev. Donald Spitz
Leviticus 20:13 is what God has to say about sodomites.
--
See babies that needed the Reverend Paul Jennings Hill
http://www.christiangallery.com/prolifeva/deadbaby.html
Isaiah 2:22 Cease ye from man, whose breath is in
his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of?
Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found
written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire
Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away:
but my words shall not pass away
Gay Christian <jmccj...@rocketmail.com> wrote in article
<01bce93b$ae16bfc0$26cbe3cf@993110h>...
Gay Christian
So Adam and Eve were sinners too. They never had a wedding therefore, they
were not married! I don't need a license from the state to be married in
the eyes of God. I am married to my homosexual (oh my) partner. We DO have
a wonderful love for each other and have a regular life just like straights
do. Yes, we go to the grocery store. We cook. We clean the house. See,
we're not so different after all!
You right wingers just love Leviticus and it is so full of sins that you
too are guilty of. For example: Chapter 12 verse 7, "Then he shall offer it
before the Lord (the woman's sacrifice) and make atonement for her. And she
shall be clean from the flow of her blood. This is the law for her who has
borne a male or female" Do the women today ask forgiveness for the flow of
their blood? Why not? It says right here that it is the law!
Lev 7:26-27
"Moreover you shall not eat any blood in any of your dwellings, whether of
bird or beast. Whoever eats any blood, that person shall be cut off from
his people"
I hope you don't like to eat RARE steak!!
Do I need to go on or do you get the point???????
Ok, New Testament.
Acts 15 is the story of the the Church's stance on circumcision. The church
believed that since Moses' law required circumcision that the Gentiles
could not be saved as they were not circumcised. Peter spoke at the
Jerusalem Council and told the church that God HAD given the Gentiles the
Holy Spirit and therefore, they should not test God.
The same situation applies to homosexuals who accept the Holy Spirit. God
has given me the Holy Spirit and has purified my heart through faith. Do
not test God!
I couldn't tell you that ALL homosexuals have accepted the Holy Spirit.
That would be just as rediculous as saying that ALL heterosexuals have
accepted. But for the ones of us who have, who are you to say that we are
not saved?
I will continue in prayer that God will speak to your heart and help you to
see the truth.
Peace and Blessings
Gay Christian
Witness <wit...@mb.sympatico.ca> wrote in article >
Coronal
According to the IP addresses on their NNTP host ID's, "John
Brown", "Rev. Larry Beedlebaum", "Ron Franklin" and "Rev. Jedediah
Elias Moshe" are all posting from computers whose IP address is
209.64.189.x, x being the number of the individual machine. Can
anyone do a check and find out where all these idiots are located?
Any guesses as to where they are operating from?
wf...@enter.netxx
On Thu, 06 Nov 1997 05:44:07 -0600, Witness <wit...@mb.sympatico.ca>
wrote:
>
>So you see, God has condemned homosexual sex.
>
as he accepted slavery (eph 6:5ff) so god's view of morality is that
if you LOVE someone its a sin...if you ENSLAVE them...thats ok
so much for god's morality.
Jason Travis
>I don't hate gay people (in fact, a lot of my closest friends were
>natural, and every bible-believing christian knows that it is not from
>God.
So there are things god didn't create? Didn't he start with nothing, or
should we assume there was some other competing force? Because if there is,
all christianity comes tumbling down in wreckage as far as the "one god"
theory. 'Cause that would imply that god could be some lesser entity in a
bigger world playing in his sandbox. I think I'd rather appeal to those
above him.
--
--Jason
Theatre Forum
http://forums.msn.com/Theatre
merlin
dear rev sir or madame,
> Do all sodomites spend eternity in Hell-Fire?
sodomite is one who engages in sodomy (am heritage dictionary)
sodomy? look it up,
sodomy would be a very big issue for farming cultures 2,000 years ago, as
they depended on sex to promote everything on the farm. i can understand
how important this would be to them, are you a farmer? then why are you
worshiping a farming god?
the laws on sodomy in the united states were created to stop hetrosexuals
from engaging in this form of sex. the fact that you you do not like this
form of sexual contact is not missed on the rest of us, however, i am
amazed how often it is spoken of here on christnet. it is as if it is the
most important spiritual law in the bible. please explain.
> The answer
> is Yes they do, unless they turn from their wicked sins
as a sin is an ancient greek archery term for missing the mark, i do not
understand how sex is involved with archery. please explain.
> and accept the Lord Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior
please explain what a savior is, as i do not believe in human or animal
sacrefices? please understand that a LORD is an absolute monarch. why do
you concider your god to be an absolute monarch? is this not an old
fashion and out of date phrase, perhaps you could make him president or
some term more familiar to us in our daily lives?
Why do you want me to worship jesus as ceasar wanted jesus to worship
him? i know what christ consiciousness is, but what does it have to do
with accepting jesus as lord and savior and worshiping the ledgendary
man?
> and submit to Him.
again, you seem to be saying that your god is a dictator to be submitted
to? why not love HIM? why not be like him? why not just be? to submit
to another human being is slavery. do you want us to be slaves of your
lord and god?
sincerely,
merlin
Eric Seright-Payne
Nick Santoro wrote:
> In other words if you Prance into a place of buisness to fill out an
> application and your little wrist is limp and your colon is dragging out
> of your ass you cant sue the buisness because they did not hire you
> because your a FLAMING FAGGOT!!!
And, since this initiative was based on the wording of Colorado's
Amendment Two, and since said Amendment was struck down by the US
Supreme Court (the same Court presently seated, BTW), just what
do you think is going to happen with this, moron?
Eric Seright-Payne
Livermore, CA
Bill Valentine
>So there are things god didn't create? Didn't he start with nothing, or
>should we assume there was some other competing force? Because if there is,
To quote Albert Einstein (sp?) "it's not so much..that God did create
the universe, the real question is whether he had a choice."
Bill Valentine
bil...@stargate.1starnet.com
---------------------------------------
>http://forums.msn.com/Theatre
Howard Black
Bill Valentine wrote:
> >So there are things god didn't create? Didn't he start with nothing, or
> >should we assume there was some other competing force? Because if there is,
> To quote Albert Einstein (sp?) "it's not so much..that God did create
> the universe, the real question is whether he had a choice."
The above reminds me of another Einstein quote, that seems appropriate to
some of the people posting here: "The only two infinite things are the universe
and stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe."
Mark Everett - High End Server Systems
In article <345F2D9A...@american.edu>,
Alvine Mbida <nm0...@american.edu> writes:
> My God can do wonders for you.....And He definitely has for me.
Your God obviously needs to do a lot more work.
--
-everettm
DISCLAIMER: I speak only for myself, not my employer.
Coronal
Nick Santoro wrote:
>
> Well now NATIONWIDE in elections from coast to coast! FAGGOTS LOSE! You
> CAN Be discriminated against as in TEXAS which refused to allow (BY
> POPULAR VOTE) to make it illegal for places of buisness to not hire or
> fire FAGS Just because they are FAGS!!
>
> application and your little wrist is limp and your colon is dragging out
> of your ass you cant sue the buisness because they did not hire you
> because your a FLAMING FAGGOT!!!
>
> YOU In RECORD NUMBERS!!!
>
> TURN OR BURN FAG!!!
Well, Nicky, here's a little food for thought (which is about all
that your brain can handle) from the Victory Fund. I pulled this from
bit.listserv.gaynet:
> Press Release
>
> Victory Fund Candidates Triumph on Election Day
>
> Winning Slate Includes First
> Openly Gay Officials in Ohio and Virginia
>
> WASHINGTON, DC 6 November 1997 In an unprecedented 83% win rate, ten
> of the Gay and Lesbian Victory Fund's 15 openly gay candidates won their
> November 4 races, and three more advanced to run- off elections. "This
> phenomenal success rate is a tribute to the quality of our candidates and
> their campaigns," says Victory Fund Executive Director Brian K. Bond.
> Included among the victories are the first openly gay and lesbian elected
> officials in Ohio and Virginia Dayton (OH) City Commission candidate Mary
> Wiseman and Arlington (VA) County Board candidate Jay Fisette.
> Openly gay elected officials currently serve in only 26 of the 50 states.
> "One of the Victory Fund's main goals is to elect an openly gay official in
> every state by the year 2000," says Bond. "I must say it was a great pleasure
> to add Pat Robertson's home state to our win list this year."
> In addition to Wiseman and Fisette, eight other Victory Fund candidates won
> their elections on Tuesday:
>
> Susan Leal for San Francisco Treasurer
> Phil Reed for New York City Council
> Margarita Lopez for New York City Council
> Deborah Silber for Brooklyn (NY) Civil Court
> Jay Fisette for Arlington (VA) County Board
> Rod Krueger for Minneapolis Library Board
> Wally Swan for Minneapolis Board of Estimate
> Jim McGill for Wilkinsburg (PA) Borough Council
> Tom Roberts for Santa Barbara City Council
> Mary Wiseman for Dayton (OH) City Commission
>
> "Putting exemplary gay people like these in the public spotlight eradicates
> the false and negative stereotypes that keep us from achieving
>
> Victory Fund Wins
> page 2
>
> true equality," says Victory Fund Political Director DeBold. "Each time an
> openly gay person wins election, our community proves to voters that good
> government doesn't come in a certain color, or gender, or sexual orientation.
> Good government comes from good leadership which is exactly what our
> candidates offer."
>
> The three Victory Fund candidates who have advanced to special run-off
> elections are:
>
> Annise Parker for Houston City Council (run-off: 12/6)
> Malcolm Gideons for Atlanta City Council-D1 (run-off: 11/25)
> Cathy Woolard for Atlanta City Council-D6 (run-off: 11/25)
>
> "Each of these races is winnable if our candidates get the technical and
> financial support they need to reach out to fairminded voters," says Bond.
> "You can be sure that groups like the Christian Coalition will be doing
> everything they can to keep openly gay candidates from gaining ground in the
> South. Our job is to help level the playing field."
>
> In addition to providing immediate support for these quick turn-around
> run-offs, the Victory Fund is already working with an outstanding cadre of
> 1998 candidates including three highly qualified, openly lesbian
> Congressional candidates. 1992 Victory Fund winner, Wisconsin State
> Representative Tammy Baldwin, is already a frontrunner in the Democratic
> primary for the state's open 2nd District seat; 1994 Victory Fund winner, San
> Diego City Councilmember Chris Kehoe, will be challenging two-term incumbent
> Brian Bilbray [R] in California's 49th District; and retired Army Colonel
> Margarethe Cammermeyer is researching a run against two- term incumbent Jack
> Metcalf [R] in Washington's 2nd District.
>
> The Victory Fund is the only national organization whose sole mission is to
> increase the number of qualified openly gay and lesbian public officials.
> The country's 14th largest nonconnected PAC, the Victory Fund has generated
> almost $1.6 million for qualified openly gay and lesbian candidates.
>
> [For more information, interviews or photographs of any of these candidates,
> please contact Kathleen DeBold at 202-842-8679 / Vict...@aol.com]
Diedrich G. Kohl
In article <345E4C...@american.edu>
Alvine Mbida <nm0...@american.edu> wrote:
> Lee wrote:
>> Alvine Mbida wrote:
>>>> Not natural for you, I'm sure you mean.
>>> No, I mean not natural for any other animal here on earth.....
>>> just not natural! Sex was made for people and animals to multiply
>>> (and also there's a bonus of pleasure for us humans).
So don't have sex unless you want to multiply, then.
>>> Now if two homosexuals were the last humans stuck on a desert island,
>>> you know that would be the end of humanity.....is that natural?
Silly argument. If two humans of the same sex were stuck on a desert
island, that would be the end of humanity regardless of their sexual
orientations. This point demonstrates precisely nothing other than
that procreation requires two sexes. Yes, we know that, thank you.
[And even if they were both heterosexual, maybe they'd eventually end
up doing what heterosexual prisoners do when they have no access to
the opposite sex...]
>>> I think not.
Apparently.
>> This "not natural" argument is the stupidest one floating around.
>> [snip rebuttal to "natural"/"unnatural" argument]
> You're missing the whole point.......I'm talking about a Christian
> perspective, and not trying to argue with you because whatever I say
> will seem foolish to you (as the Bible clearly states).
> The bible says it's unnatural,
I don't intend to engage in biblical-interpretation or naturality
debates here, nor to debate the foolishness/wiseness of your beliefs.
However, your ATTITUDE bears remark. Here's what is "foolish":
> and everybody knows that.....even you do deep down.
The trademark language of someone who has difficulty supporting
his position with actual argument:
"Everybody knows that ..."
"Obviously, ..."
"You know I'm right ..."
"Of course, ..."
"I know you know I'm right ..."
"Everybody agrees that ..."
"As I'm sure you know, ..."
"Clearly, ..."
"As everybody knows, ..."
"Deep down, you know I'm right ..."
IOW, "What I believe/say is right, and everybody knows that, and you
know that, and you believe the same thing, and you're being dishonest
if you claim otherwise."
No, dearest Alvine, everybody does NOT "know" [=believe] as you do --
either on the surface or "deep down". That includes many biblical
scholars who know more about this than you or me.
You're entitled to your opinions and beliefs. You're even entitled
to proselytize and try to persuade others to change their opinions or
beliefs. However, you will kindly refrain from presumptuously telling
others what they really-honestly-deep-down-if-they'd-only-admit-it
believe/feel/know. To do so is the height of arrogance.
> Just accept that it's not right and you'll see you'll breath a lot
> better instead of trying to prove yourself to everyone.
IOW, "Just admit that you're naughty, and you'll feel a lot better
about it. Come on, now, there's a good boy...".
What you mean is: *YOU* -- Alvine -- will "breathe a lot better".
What *YOU* need to "just accept", dear, is that: (a) you do not hold
a monopoly on genuinely-held beliefs; and (b) you are not going to
get people to "admit" that which they do not believe.
> I'm not at all aggressive about all this
Then what are you doing on Usenet actively condemning homosexuality
and accusing homosexuals of lying about what they "know" or believe
because it happens to disagree with what YOU believe?
> so I really don't see why you should be....
Your bigoted and egocentric attitudes demonstrate the answer to
your own question.
> but then again, that is a natural reaction isn't it?
The derided tend not to sit passively and "accept" your derisive
judgment of them and the practical implications thereof. Does that
answer your question?
Look up the meaning of "reactive" vs "proactive".
--Rick
Ron Secor
> In other words if you Prance into a place of buisness to fill out an
>application and your little wrist is limp and your colon is dragging out
>of your ass you cant sue the buisness because they did not hire you
>because your a FLAMING FAGGOT!!!
> HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH NO ONE WANTS YOU!!! GOD IS KILLING
>YOU In RECORD NUMBERS!!!
>TURN OR BURN FAG!!!
>++++++ REPLY TO ME AT +++++++
Yes, Virginia, even assholes can type...
L. Michael Roberts
John Brown wrote:
<snipped to the point>
>
> Out of all of the homos at least you seem to have humour and therefore I
> will harass you much, much less in the future; if I harass you at all.
> Don't think I'm going soft either because I'm not!
So you have admitted in public that you harass people in this
newsgroup. Isen't there some law against that ??
+====================== L. Michael Roberts ======================+
This represents my personal opinion and NOT Company policy
Burlington, Ont, Canada - to reply, remove '0spam' from my address
+====================================================================+
Child of the Father
elliott@PROBLEM_WITH_YOUR_MAIL_GATEWAY_FILE.nyu.edu (frank w elliott
jr) wrote:
>Alvine Mbida (nm0...@american.edu) wrote:
>: I don't hate gay people (in fact, a lot of my closest friends were
>: gay)
>Southern racists used to say "some of my best friends are niggers."
And those people are ignorant. I have a gay friend, and although I do
not approve of the choice he made, I love him still. Just because one
person believes that another person is wrong, doesn't mean they hate
that person.
>:.....but I do have something against the lifestyle: it's not
>There is no one gay lifestyle. Some gay people are celibate, some
>monogamous, and some promiscuousl.
>: natural, and every bible-believing christian knows that it is not from
>: God.
>And I suppose that the Christian persecution of homosexuals is?
Again..."Christian persecution"? The Southern Baptist boycott of
Disney wasn't persecution of homosexuals....it was their stand against
what they believe is wrong. Just like the 20 of you guys who come to
a "CHRISTNET. CHRISTIANLIFE" to take your stand against Christians and
the bible, because you believe we're wrong. They will defend
themselves, and we'll defend ourselves, and life will go on, and
nothing will change. Besides, with the Southern Baptists out of the
picture, doesn't that mean shorter lines for the gays at Disney??
We don't hate Gays, some people do, and those people are wrong, but
real Christians should not hate Gay people...we just continue to pray
to our God, that made our bodies, and gave us the will to choose right
and wrong. I choose right.
>If Christ returned today, Christians would gay-bash him.
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. No where EVER
has it been stated that Jesus is gay, only a person driven by hate
could come up with such ignorance.
>:
Child of the Father
Nick Santoro <wis...@pheonix.net> wrote:
>Well now NATIONWIDE in elections from coast to coast! FAGGOTS LOSE! You
>CAN Be discriminated against as in TEXAS which refused to allow (BY
>POPULAR VOTE) to make it illegal for places of buisness to not hire or
>fire FAGS Just because they are FAGS!!
> In other words if you Prance into a place of buisness to fill out an
> Then_____Visit The Sites Below and be Edumacated
>http://206.160.206.77/pages/alan.html <---This site CAN Cure your
>GAYNESS!
> Leviticus 18:22 Tells of a faggots future
>Vafancullo'
You know, you'd probably make an excellent candidate for the KKK.
I cannot just sit here and take this idiocracy, and then on top of
everything else.....he puts scripture in his closing. This person
does not represent Christians....before the flames start rolling in.
This is some guy with moonshine in the shed, and lumber in the barn
just waiting to be burned on someones lawn.
Lee
>In article <345E4C...@american.edu>
> Alvine Mbida <nm0...@american.edu> wrote:
>
>> Lee wrote:
>
>>> Alvine Mbida wrote:
>
>>>>> Not natural for you, I'm sure you mean.
>
>>>> No, I mean not natural for any other animal here on earth.....
>>>> just not natural! Sex was made for people and animals to multiply
>>>> (and also there's a bonus of pleasure for us humans).
>
>So don't have sex unless you want to multiply, then.
<snip>
While my name is attached to this post, nothing written by me is.
Lee - From beautiful central Indiana
Practice random acts of kindness and senseless beauty
hax...@scican.net
Dr. Knapp, D.D
Merlin your reply is just foolish, it is hard to believe, that you believe
what you just wrote.
merlin wrote in message ...
>> Do all sodomites spend eternity in Hell-Fire?
>
>sodomite is one who engages in sodomy (am heritage dictionary)
>sodomy? look it up,
Stupid thing to say, we know what sodomy is and what a sodomite is, we all
should have dictionaries. The dictionary has nothing to say about them
going to hell, the bible does.
>how important this would be to them, are you a farmer? then why are you
>worshiping a farming god?
No one is worshiping a farming god, as a Christian, you seem to see it as
important, the question should be why are YOU worshiping that farming god?
Then it looks like you seem to think 2000 years ago they had more then just
farms, to be a god of the farmers would cover more then 98 percent of the
total population, so why not worship such a god?
>the laws on sodomy in the united states were created to stop hetrosexuals
>from engaging in this form of sex. the fact that you you do not like this
>form of sexual contact is not missed on the rest of us, however, i am
>amazed how often it is spoken of here on christnet. it is as if it is the
>most important spiritual law in the bible. please explain.
For one that just said he is amazed at how often it is spoken of, here, then
to say to explain, shows you either do not know, and are telling a untrue
statement, or you just want to add to it, and are doing your best to keep it
here and in the news group. I do not want you to explain, as you do not
seem to know what is correct or wrong.
>as a sin is an ancient greek archery term for missing the mark, i do not
>understand how sex is involved with archery. please explain.
You understand very well, and know that archery was used so stupid and
ignorant people could see a picture by the bow and arrow, since that is what
they used, the point of missing. If a picture is too hard for you, all the
explanations would be over your head and that has nothing to do with a body,
over your head, means you would not understand.
>> and accept the Lord Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior
>
>please explain what a savior is, as i do not believe in human or animal
>sacrefices? please understand that a LORD is an absolute monarch. why do
You also know what the meaning is for savior, as you just put in sacrifices,
which were not mentioned. Then what is wrong with a Absolute monarch?
Nothing, we need more absolutes in this world.
>you concider your god to be an absolute monarch? is this not an old
>fashion and out of date phrase, perhaps you could make him president or
>some term more familiar to us in our daily lives?
Since God is OLD and Old fashion at that, LORD is good and absolute monarch
is better and president is a temporary job, that being God is not. You
elect a president, you do not elect God. God is higher then any
president and such terms used today, are understood to be: here today gone
tomorrow. Jesus said he was, is and always will be. The beginning and the
end. Absolute, and Monarch if you wish, then only a monarch as that also
could have a ending, in relationship with man, as man will end, God will
not.
>Why do you want me to worship jesus as ceasar wanted jesus to worship
>him? i know what christ consiciousness is, but what does it have to do
No one in their right mind would ever want anyone to worship Jesus as you
would Caesar, Caesar was a man and died and is dead, Jesus is God, became a
man, died and is alive, not the same in any way. Being conscious of
Jesus and knowing him is worlds apart.
>with accepting jesus as lord and savior and worshiping the ledgendary
>man?
Never! Jesus is not legendary and is not just a man, if only a man, then
faith is useless, worship is useless. Jesus as Lord and God, or as Thomas
in the bible said, when he touched his hand to the hand of Jesus where the
nail holes were and the side, where the spear cut into the heart of Jesus,
said, Oh Lord MY God! Not just a legendary man.
>> and submit to Him.
>
>again, you seem to be saying that your god is a dictator to be submitted
>to? why not love HIM? why not be like him? why not just be? to submit
>to another human being is slavery. do you want us to be slaves of your
>lord and god?
Your remarks are made to show you really are not being truthful. You
submit to a wife, to the law, even to a crying child, all are not dictators.
Submit is giving oneself freely, as a man to his own wife is suppose to do.
No one submits to a dictator, freely, they fight dictators and get rid of
them. I believe you know all that also, and only trying to get a fame of
words going, so you can sit back and laugh. Right? Then I do not expect
a true reply any way. Slaves, why not, good job, Egypt had them, and many
willing gave their lives for their masters. Then to submit to a human
like you said is slavery and wrong, then Jesus is not just human, He is God
in the flesh, the image of God for man to see, to submit to God is wisdom,
to man, a waste of time in most cases.
Raymond
Jeff Barlow
In article <34647475...@news.netdirect.net>, C...@sig.4address (Lee) wrote:
> >In article <345E4C...@american.edu>
> > Alvine Mbida <nm0...@american.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> Lee wrote:
> >
> >>> Alvine Mbida wrote:
> >
> >>>>> Not natural for you, I'm sure you mean.
> >
> >>>> No, I mean not natural for any other animal here on earth.....
> >>>> just not natural! Sex was made for people and animals to multiply
> >>>> (and also there's a bonus of pleasure for us humans).
> >
> >So don't have sex unless you want to multiply, then.
I tried that out in algebra class, but no matter how many times I did so I
saw not one iota of improvement in my retention of the multipilication
tables....
7 X 6 is....lesse......ummmm...er..where's that damn calculator!
Jeff Barlow
In article <643n9l$c...@news1.infinet.com>, <dion...@infinet.comm> "Damn
junk E-mailers!" wrote:
> Witness (wit...@mb.sympatico.ca) said:
>
> }"Do not practice homosexuality; it is a detestable sin." Leviticus
> }18:22
>
> That is NOT what God said. Open your Bible and try again.
>
> }"That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the
> }women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in
> }sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual
> }relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did
> }shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within
> }themselves the penalty they so richly deserved." Romans 1:26-27
>
> And now you tell only half the story, taking things grossly out of
> context to further your own goals. Disguesting.
>
> Here is your "condemnation" in its entirety:
What is interesting, aside from the rather esoteric translation of the
Bible that "Witness" uses, is that his passages come from Romans, which was
written by Paul.
Again, why can't you so-called "christians" tell us what Jesus Christ said
about homosexuality.....you DO follow HIS teachings....don't you?
dion...@infinet.com
MrRiddles (MrRi...@hotmail.com) said:
}I hate to say it but the Bible does clearly say it is detestable for a man
}to lay with a man the way a man lays with a woman.
It also states that, if one has mildew problems in the bathroom, then they
need to burn EVERYTHING if the local priest should turn out to be less
effective than Tile-X.
How's that for an amusing outlook on reality?
--
<a href="http://www.infinet.com/~dionisio">My Web Pages</a>
And the Thought of the Moment (tm) is...
Choose a person at random - preferably a very attractive member of the
opposite sex, as it makes what you're about to do so much easier. Now
stare at them. After a very short while indeed, you will find them trying
to sneak surreptitious glances at you to check whether you're still
watching them. Each time they look up at you, smile at them as though
you've just noticed that they have a traffic cone on their head, but
you're being too polite to mention it. If you ever wanted to know what a
person with accute paranoia looks like, just keep watching.
dion...@infinet.com
Jeroen (j...@dds.nl) said:
}A man does not 'lay' with a man, like a man 'lays' with a woman.
Not if they're horny they don't. <looking innocent>
--
<a href="http://www.infinet.com/~dionisio">My Web Pages</a>
And the Thought of the Moment (tm) is...
Remember, it is not the gay man or woman who is creating the problem, it
is the person who has issue with their sexual orientation. THEY are the
ones reading s.o. into every facet of a gay person's life. Believe me,
most of the gay people don't walk around every minute reading their sexual
orientation into everything. The demand for anti-discrimination laws is a
reaction to the reality that the current laws are not doing any good --
not unlike black anger in the 1960s because current laws were not good
enough.
-- all...@wolfenet.com (Allen Bagwell), 21 Oct 1995
dion...@infinet.com
Witness (wit...@mb.sympatico.ca) said:
}"Do not practice homosexuality; it is a detestable sin." Leviticus
}18:22
That is NOT what God said. Open your Bible and try again.
}"That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the
}women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in
}sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual
}relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did
}shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within
}themselves the penalty they so richly deserved." Romans 1:26-27
And now you tell only half the story, taking things grossly out of
context to further your own goals. Disguesting.
Here is your "condemnation" in its entirety:
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God
hath shewed [it] unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the
creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things
that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are
without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him]
not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations,
and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be
wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God
into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted
beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to
uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own
bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie,
and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is
blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile
affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that
which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the
natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men
with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that
recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not
like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate
mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Re-read those first few verses. Romans 1 is about idol worship. Romans 2
is about hypocrisy. (Read it too.)
--
<a href="http://www.infinet.com/~dionisio">My Web Pages</a>
And the Thought of the Moment (tm) is...
Perfect Love and Fear Of The Lord are not compatible -- hence, anyone who
advocates Fear Of The Lord is advocating the **prevention** of Perfect
Love. Or is my logic broken? No, I think it coheres quite well.
Benjamin Franklin summarized it well: "To be feared is to be hated." If
you fear the Lord -- if you are afraid of His might, vengeance, power,
etc. -- then you are *incapable of loving Him*, except perhaps in a
sadomasochistic way ... :-)
-- kkru...@osf1.gmu.edu Karl A Krueger, 24 May 1995,
in alt.sex
dion...@infinet.com
}> Now if two homosexuals were
}> the last humans stuck on a desert island, you know that would be the end
}> of humanity.....is that natural? I think not.
Call me a pessimist, but I think it would be an good thing. What good has
humanity wrought? What do we offer the universe? Intregue. Bickering. War.
If we EVER get to the point were we kill off everybody except two people,
then it would be only fitting that those two never get the chance to foist
humanity onto the cosmos again.
(Generation-X: raising "gloomy" to an artform. <g>)
--
<a href="http://www.infinet.com/~dionisio">My Web Pages</a>
And the Thought of the Moment (tm) is...
Asking if computers can think is like asking if submarines can swim.
dion...@infinet.com
Really... Let's examnine that, shall we?
Intro
This article was first created by [1]Deacon Maccubbin on March third,
1995. It has been greatly changed from its original form and now
includes not only my own comments and additions, but also those of
other writers who posted particularly well-crafted and researched
messages on the subject. Several volumes of historic and religious
texts have also been perused and consulted. (See: [2]Bibliography)
Careful examination of the document is encouraged, and [3]feedback is
welcomed.
_________________________________________________________________
Sin and the Sodomites
An examination of homophobia, fact, and faith
I think it's time to call the [4]fundamentalist right on their claim
that the [5]Sodom story gives proof of God's wrath against
homosexuality. Let's start with what their own primary authority --
the Bible -- says about Sodom's sins.
Following is a list of every verse in the Bible that refers to the
sins of Sodom (King James Version). Perhaps they can now point out
every time that homosexuality occurs in this list:
Genesis 13:13
But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD
exceedingly.
(Nope, no homosexuality mentioned there)
Genesis 18:20
And the Lord said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is
great, and because their sin is very grievous.
(Nope, no homosexuality mentioned there)
Genesis 19:13
For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is
waxen great before the face of the Lord.
(Nope, no homosexuality mentioned there)
Deuteronomy 29:17-26
And ye have seen their [6]abominations, and their idols, wood
and stone, silver and gold, which were among them...And that
the whole land thereof is brimstone, and salt, and
burning...like the overthrow of Sodom...which the Lord
overthrew in his anger, and in his wrath...Wherefore hath the
Lord done thus unto this land? What meaneth the heat of this
great anger? Then men shall say, Because they have forsaken the
covenant of the Lord God of their fathers...For they went and
served other gods, and worshipped them, gods whom they knew
not, and whom he had not given unto them.
(Just idolatry and false gods; nope, no homosexuality mentioned
there.)
Deuteronomy 32:32-38
For their vine is of the vine of Sodom, and of the fields of
Gomorrah: their grapes are grapes of gall, their clusters are
bitter...And he shall say, Where are their gods, their rock in
whom they trusted, Which did eat the fat of their sacrifices,
and drank the wine of their drink offerings? let them rise up
and help you, and be your protection.
(Idolatry again; but, no homosexuality mentioned.)
Isaiah 1:9-23
Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant,
we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto
Gomorrah. Hear the word of the Lord, ye rulers of Sodom; give
ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah...How is the
faithful city become an harlot! It was full of judgment;
righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers. Thy silver is
become dross, thy wine mixed with water: Thy princes are
rebellious, and companions of thieves: every one loveth gifts,
and followeth after rewards: they judge not the fatherless,
neither doth the cause of the widow come unto them.
(Hmmm... murder, greed, thievery, rebelliousness, covetousness;
nope, no homosexuality there.)
Isaiah 3:8-15
For Jerusalem is ruined, and Judah is fallen: because their
tongue and their doings are against the Lord, to provoke the
eyes of his glory. The shew of their countenance doth witness
against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it
not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto
themselves. For ye have eaten up the vineyard; the spoil of the
poor is in your houses. What mean ye that ye beat my people to
pieces, and grind the faces of the poor?
(Mistreating the poor. Still no homosexuality...)
Isaiah 13:11-19
And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for
their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to
cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible...And
Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees'
excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.
(Haughtiness, yes, but no homosexuality.)
Isaiah 3:8-15
For Jerusalem is ruined, and Judah is fallen: because their
tongue and their doings are against the Lord, to provoke the
eyes of his glory. The shew of their countenance doth witness
against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it
not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto
themselves. For ye have eaten up the vineyard; the spoil of the
poor is in your houses. What mean ye that ye beat my people to
pieces, and grind the faces of the poor?
(Again, the mistreating of the poor is mentioned. And again,
mention of homosexuality.)
Isaiah 13:11-19
And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for
their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to
cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible...And
Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees'
excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.
(Haughtiness again, but no homosexuality.)
Jeremiah 23:10-14
For the land is full of adulterers; for because of swearing the
land mourneth...For both prophet and priest are profane; yea,
in my house have I found their wickedness, saith the Lord...And
I have seen folly in the prophets of Samaria; they prophesied
in Baal, and caused my people Israel to err. I have seen also
in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit
adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of
evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness: they are
all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as
Gomorrah.
(Adultery, lying by priests and prophets; nope, no
homosexuality in there.)
Jeremiah 49:16-18
Thy terribleness hath deceived thee, and the pride of thine
heart...Also Edom shall be a desolation: every one that goeth
by it shall be astonished, and shall hiss at all the plagues
thereof. As in the overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah.
(Evil and pride, but still no homosexuality...)
Jeremiah 50:2-40
Declare ye among the nations...say, Babylon is taken, Bel is
confounded, Merodach is broken in pieces; her idols are
confounded, her images are broken in pieces...thou hast striven
against the Lord...for she hath been proud against the
Lord...As God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah and the neighbor
cities thereof, saith the Lord; so shall no man abide there,
neither shall any son of man dwell therein.
(There's that idolatry and pride again, but still no
homosexuality.)
Lamentations 4:3-6
...the daughter of my people is become cruel, like the
ostriches in the wilderness. The tongue of the sucking child
cleaveth to the roof of his mouth for thirst: the young
children ask bread, and no man breaketh it unto them. They that
did feed delicately are desolate in the streets: they that were
brought up in scarlet embrace dunghills. For the punishment of
the iniquity of the daughter of my people is greater than the
punishment of the sin of Sodom, that was overthrown as in a
moment, and no hands stayed on her.
(Cruelty, failure to tend the young and the poor...
Homosexuality appears to be a "no show".)
Ezekiel 16:49-50
Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride,
fullness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in
her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor
and needy. And they were haughty, and committed [7]abomination
before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.
(Well THAT's pretty clear, huh? But what are we missing in that
list? Oh yeah...homosexuality.)
Amos 4:1-11
Hear this word, ye kine of Bashan, that are in the mountain of
Samaria, which oppress the poor, which crush the needy, which
say to their masters, Bring, and let us drink. I have
overthrown some of you, as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah,
and ye were as a firebrand plucked out of the burning: yet have
ye not returned unto me, saith the Lord.
(Oppression, mistreating the needy...still no homosexuality)
Zephaniah 2:8-9
I have heard the reproach of Moab, and the revilings of the
children of Ammon, whereby they have reproached my people, and
magnified themselves against their border. Therefore as I live,
saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, Surely Moab shall
be as Sodom, and the children of Ammon as Gomorrah...This shall
they have for their pride, because they have reproached and
magnified themselves against the people of the Lord of hosts.
(There's that pride again, and the intimation of inhospitality,
but still no homosexuality.)
Well, so much for the Old Testament's linkage of Sodom with
homosexuality. Maybe the fundamentalists were referring to something
in the New Testament? Let's see...
Matthew 10:11-15
And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in
it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence. And when ye
come into an house, salute it...And whosoever shall not receive
you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or
city, shake off the dust of your feet...Verily I say unto you,
It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah
in the day of judgment, than for that city.
(Jesus said these words; they draw a comparison to
inhospitality, but there's still no homosexuality mentioned...)
Matthew 11:16-24
But whereunto shall I liken this generation? ... For John came
neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil. The
Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man
gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and
sinners...Then began Jesus to upbraid the cities wherein most
of his mighty works were done, because they repented not. Woe
unto thee, Chorazin! Woe unto thee, Bethsaida! For if the
mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and
Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and
ashes...And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven,
shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which
have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have
remained until this day...But I say unto you, That it shall be
more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment,
than for thee.
(They ridiculed Jesus and treated him with the utmost
inhospitality, and refused to repent...but still no mention of
homosexuality.)
Mark 6:10-11
And he said unto them, In what place soever ye enter into an
house, there abide till ye depart from that place. And
whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart
thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony
against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable
for Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment, than for that
city.
(Jesus repeats the warning of what shall happen to villages
that treat his people inhospitably, but still doesn't mention
homosexuality.)
Luke 10:10-12
But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go
your ways out into the streets of the same, and say. Even the
very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off
against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the
kingdom of God is come nigh unto you. But I say unto you, that
it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that
city.
(Jesus repeats the warning of what shall happen to villages
that treat his people inhospitably, but still doesn't mention
homosexuality.)
Luke 17:26-29
And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the
days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married
wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe
entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them
all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat,
they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and
brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
(Jesus still fails to mention homosexuality.)
2 Peter 2:6
And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes
condemned them with an overthrow, making them an example unto
those that after should live ungodly.
(Ungodly? Is that idolatry again? It sure isn't homosexuality.)
Jude 1:7-8
Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like
manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after
strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the
vengeance of eternal fire. Likewise also these filthy dreamers
defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of
dignities.
(Awww... this one comes SO close, but no cigar; the Greek word
translated here as "fornication" is "porneia" and had a
distinctly heterosexual connotation; and the "strange flesh"
was a reference to angels or "sons of God" that WOMEN had sex
with [see Genesis 6:1-4] according to Jewish tradition; still
no mention of homosexuality.)
Well, except for a brief mention of Sodom in Revelations (where there
is no reference to the city's supposed sins), I'm afraid we've covered
them all.
So, what is their reasoning? Why is homosexuality assumed to be the
reason behind Sodom's destruction? I haven't a clue. Let's examine the
"rules and regulations" of that period's cultural values and belief
systems. Perhaps we'll find the answer in there... (Then again, maybe
not... )
In ancient societies where there were no hotels, no rapid transport
and little rule of law, cultural mores governing hospitality and
respect for sojourning strangers were essentials for survival, and
therefore of the utmost importance. In the mythology of Greece, next
to hubris alone, inhospitality provoked the greatest wrath among the
gods and goddesses. This was no less the case in ancient Israel.
Hospitality is a very important item in the Bible and is mentioned
many times:
* Romans 12:6-15
* Matthew 10:5-15
* Mark 6:7-11
* Luke 10:3-12
* 1 Timothy 3:2
* Titus 1:7-8
* 1 Peter 4:8-10
At the center of Sodom's greatest transgression was the violation of
that ancient code of hospitality. Jesus, in recalling the doom of
Sodom and Gomorrah, says nothing regarding any sexual improprieties.
Instead he speaks of these cities exemplifying the fate of those towns
which refuse to welcome the apostles.
And that little incident brings to mind another point: Harboring
unknown strangers within a city for the night was dangerous. The
residents of the city had great reason to demand to see Lot's guests.
The Bible has recorded an incident wherein a mere two people were
responsible for bringing about the total destruction of an entire
city. (Joshua chapters 2 and 6) According to that account, spies were
sent to discern the nature of the city and its defenses. They were
sheltered by a lady by the name of Rahab. And despite the fact that
Rahab was a prostitute, and that prostitution was a grave sin: a short
time later, Rahab's family was the only one in Jericho which survived
Joshua's attack. Why? Hospitality.
The lands of the Bible were -- and still are -- dangerous places, with
wars of power and conquest frequently breaking out; where entire
kingdoms came and went, sometimes in the span of a mere decade.
(Philistines, Canaanites, Persians, Macedonians, Egyptians,
Phoenicians, Assyrians, Babylonians, Romans, Greeks, and -- of course
-- the Israelites didn't just happen to find an uninhabited patch of
land; they fought for the property too.) Is it unreasonable -- in the
light of such an event -- for the residents to be a tad paranoid and
angry? Do we not seek out and punish spies even today?
City gates were closed at night expressly to prevent lawless or
subversive aliens from entering on unknown errands, and travelers
carried credentials because they might at any time be asked to prove
that they were abroad on legitimate business. Thus we might translate
"Bring them out to us, that we might know them" as "We wish to know
whom you are bringing into our city" or (in the vernacular of WWII
German movies) "Ve vant to see your papers!"
Now we see why the bringing of strangers into the city, at night, sans
the approval of the leaders of that city, was a punishable offense.
Lot, not being a resident of that city, was naturally not deemed
trustable enough to have that priviledge. In essence: He insulted the
city's inhabitants with his flagrant -- and in retrospect, obviously
dangerous -- behavior. They were out to "learn him a little lesson".
Now, as a host, it would have been a grave offense against the
hospitality code to turn his guests over to the mob. However, that
refusal created a catch-22: He had no right to shelter his guests in
the first place. He was obliged to protect them as honored guests, yet
they were guests he should not have had... Furthermore, Lot's refusal
to let the town's people have a look see at his guests only served to
further fan the flames of suspicion: Perhaps Lot's "guests" really
were enemy agents sent to spy out weaknesses within the city...
The angels were probably about to be shown the tender mercies of the
fist; perhaps to their death. (If one can kill an angel. But, since
the townspeople knew not the supernatural nature of the "guests", they
likely assumed that they were mere mortals, and thus capable of
dying.)
The residents had very good reasons to fear Lot's "guests". For all
they knew -- and this was actually the case, unbeknownst to them at
the time -- their very lives were at the mercy of the strangers. Only
the truly psychopathic and/or sociopathic are completely unconcerned
with threats to their own lives. (Which raises another point: If the
residents DIDN'T try to "teach Lot's guests a lesson", they would have
truly been worthy of God's wrath over their immorality. It would
appear that the city was doomed from the very start.)
The hospitality code regarding guests and practice of humiliating
enemies is well documented. From the Texts of Ras Shamra (ancient
Ugarit from north Syria, circa 1400BC) we read that an ideal son is
one "Who would drive away any who would molest his night-guest." The
parallel to the Sodom story is not to be overlooked. Indeed, the
editor of this text (Winton Thomas) links this passage to the common
practice among the Bedouin AND Lot in Gen 19.
J. Edgar Brun in "Old Testament History and the Development of a
Sexual Ethic" cites the practice of raping the defeated male enemy,
especially amongst the Egyptians, as a form and symbol of domination.
He then links this historical fact to the later Hebrew prohibition of
male homosexual acts. He states:
"[The Israelites] too viewed sodomy [sic] as an expression of
scorn; and in a society where the dignity of the male was a primary
consideration, voluntary acts of a homosexual nature could not be
tolerated. Both parties would then be undermining the very
foundation of a patriarchal society; the one because he uses
another as a woman; the other because he allows himself to be used
as a woman.
And so centuries passed, and generations of Jewish scholars continued
to understand the divine retribution against Sodom and Gomorrah to be
a lesson on arrogance and inhospitality. Only later did Church
moralists refer to the Sodom story in the context of sexual practices.
(Such as when, late in the first century A.D., the writer of the book
of Jude asserts that Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave
themselves over to sexual immorality. (Jude 1:7)) Still, this is no
indictment against the homosexual orientation. Some translations of
this passage speak of the Sodomites going after "strange flesh" (Greek
- *sarkos heteras*). The word *heteras* means "different" (compare
"hetero"sexual). As is made clear by apocryphal Hebrew writings, Jude
is referencing the Sodomites' attempt to rape angels. It is worth
noting that Jude is the only biblical writer who connected the sins of
the Sodomites to sexual immorality and still was ambiguous regarding
homosexuality.
The word "sodomite" occurs five times in the Bible: Deuteronomy 23:17;
I Kings 14:24, 15:12, and 22:46; and II Kings 23:7. In all five cases
it translates the Hebrew word "[8]qadesh" which means a male
prostitute in a pagan temple.
The part of the story in which Lot offers his daughters to be raped in
order to appease the crowd clearly demonstrates that there is not a
sexual ethic for the 20th Century in this story at all. It abuses the
dignity of women, and demonstrates that sexual _orientation_ was not
an operative concept at the time the story emerged.
But we're not done yet. The traditional concept of the sin of Sodom
arises from the fact that the Hebrew word here translated as "to know"
([9]yadha) is used by itself in ten places in the Old Testament to
denote heterosexual intercourse. In five additional texts it is used
in conjunction with mishkabh (in this context, "to lie") to mean the
same thing. But yadha appears by itself no less than 943 times in a
nonsexual connotation, to simply mean "get acquainted with" or "learn
of" in a scholarly sense.
There is no Old Testament text in which [10]yadha refers to homosexual
coitus, with the single exception of the story of Sodom and Gomorrah
found in Genesis. The less ambiguous word [11]shakab, however, is used
for homosexual, heterosexual, and bestial intercourse. Shakab appears
fifty times in the Old Testament; if it had been used instead of yadha
in the Sodom story, the meaning of the text would have been
unmistakable. "[12]Shkobeth" or "[13]raba" could also have been used
for their sexual connotations, yet they weren't; lending credence to
the theory that sex wasn't what the men desired.
Moreover, even if the [14]fundamentalists must insist (evidence to the
contrary notwithstanding) that the men of Sodom wanted to have sex
with the strangers, that's a matter of rape, not homosexual love. I
think we can all agree that rape is right up there on the list of big
sins, and further that it is an act of power, control, and violence,
not of love between consenting adults.
There's another Old Testament passage that is relevant. The story is
found in Judges 19:11-30. It bears a striking resemblance to the Sodom
story -- a traveler arrives at the city (in this case, Gilbeah). There
he meets an old man who is, like Lot, a resident alien. The old man
warns the traveler that he should not stay in the town square, and he
extends the hand of hospitality in accordance with Holy law, inviting
the traveler to share his abode for the night. But the men of the city
surround the old man's house and demand that the traveler be sent out
so "that we may know him" (there's that "[15]yadha" again). (It should
be noted that the traveler and the man in question were not related. A
family was allowed to provide shelter to its members without
question.) The old man refuses, but offers his virgin daughter and his
concubine to the mob instead. When the crowd refuses the offer, the
old man throws his concubine outside as a diversion, whereupon the
"base fellows" in the mob rape and abuse her all night, leaving her
dying at the threshold. When the Israelites learn of the abuse of the
concubine, they rise up against Gilbeah and, with God's help, destroy
the city.
Here we have an instance almost identical to Sodom, except that this
time we have not mere attempted rape, but actual heterosexual rape
combined with murder. Yet no one uses this story to imply God's
condemnation of heterosexuality in general. It is specious, then, to
suggest that the story of Sodom is instructional with regard to
homosexuality in general. Even if the original intent of both the
townsmen of Sodom and those of Gibeah was homosexual rape, obviously
both stories are about heterosexual males who indulge in it as a
sport. Otherwise the offer in both stories of females as a
diversionary sexual object makes no sense. To extend such an offer to
homosexual males would be pointless because it would hold no interest
for them.
I am reminded of a synagogue prayer recited by Jewish men which
included the expression of thanksgiving, "Blessed are you, o Lord, who
has not made me a woman." Women where chattel in these ancient
societies. This is why Lot was so quick to offer his daughters as a
bribe. (BTW, had he believed that the Sodomites were all homosexuals,
why would he have even bothered?) Lot did not want to bring dishonor
upon himself. Similarly, the Levite in Judges 19 allowed his own wife
to be raped. He only got upset when she died, his "property" thus
irreparably damaged.
Those who insist that Sodom was destroyed for homosexuality are
denying the very Bible they claim to revere, and attempting to push a
laden camel through the eye of a needle. They are required to make
five outrageous leaps of faith:
1. Homosexual love is equal to rape;
2. "[16]Yadha" meant homosexual acts only once or twice and something
else 953 times;
3. All of the other references to Sodom's sins contained in the Bible
are in error, incomplete, or obfuscatory;
4. The strict codes regarding hospitality and the safety of travelers
were immaterial, and;
5. The concubine of the man of Gilbeah was a male.
We should also remember that the monotheism of Judaism was in strict
competition with many other religions of the time, some of which
practiced anal sex as a way to gain their god's favor. Specifically,
those gods were: Inana, Anath, Molech, Ishtar, Baal, and Asherah (whom
was sometimes shown as the consort of God. Also sometimes called Elat
-- which is the female form of the Caananite's name for God, "El". At
other times, she was confused with the Egyptian goddess Hathor.) These
gods had both male and female priests and having sex with those
priests was an act of worship designed to bring about the fertility of
fields and to ensure childbirth.
The Bible even records a specific instance of one of these fertility
practices: The use of "love-apples" (or mandrakes) to conceive.
(Genesis 30:14-17 (Rachel bargains with Leah for the "love-apples" so
that she might spend the night sexually with Jacob.))
So, what we have here is the authors of the Old Testament expressing a
demand that the Israelites give their loyalty and fealty to the ONE
GOD (ignoring the implied impressing of servitude in Proverbs 8:22 of
course), lest they face judgment.
This was accomplished via the Holiness Code; whose one major emphases
was to protect the Israelites from idolatry and help them distinguish
between magical and faithful thinking. This was indeed a problem, as
can be witnessed by at least one incident involving Jacob's wife and
some terafim, or small idols: Genesis 31:33-35. It has nothing to do
with homosexuality as we understand it today.
Generally speaking, Old Testament proscriptions against homosexual
behavior are culturally bound, not universally true. They stem from
the times of the Hebrew tribes wandering in the wilderness and
settling in Canaan. The Hebrews needed strict moral laws governing
social behavior, dietary habits and social interaction for tribal
survival. These proscriptions were later codified during the crisis of
the Babylonian Captivity, when the Jews needed strict religious laws
to insure their cultural survival as a separate (``holy'') people in
an alien land.
An example of this may be found in Deuteronomy 23:17-18:
"None of the daughters of Israel shall be a temple prostitute; none
of the sons of Israel shall be a temple prostitute. You shall not
bring the fee of a prostitute or the wages of a male prostitute
into the house of the Lord your God in payment for any vow, for
both of these are abhorrent to the Lord your God."
Another in Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13:
``You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an
abomination... If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of
them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death;
their blood is upon them.''
The operative cultural bias here is that it is an abomination to treat
another man like a woman. Males were thought to be made in the image
of God; thus homosexual behavior would be seen through the
heterosexual majority's eyes as violating the image of God.
Furthermore, the "detestable" nature of lying "as a woman" refers to a
male's assuming the *passive role in anal intercourse*, which was held
as an abomination because of taking on the inferior status of women.
Apparently it does not view the "active" role in anal intercourse as
an abomination, nor other homosexual acts. (Ie, fellatio)
Has the point sunk in yet? These Holiness Codes, and similar systems
that are found in the Old Testament, were there to make absolutely
certain someone converted to Judaism and did not stray into pagan
religions of the time. Homosexuality was a practice of some of the
pagan religions of the time, and thus we see the Old Testament
condemning that act because of what it represents in the eyes of the
authors: straying from the fealty of [17]Yahweh. Not only did the
ancient religious leaders seek to keep the Israelites from
participating in temple prostitution, they sought to eliminate ALL
such pagan practices, regardless of orientation. (It took the
Israelites some 700 years to fully abandon their previous religious
beliefs and worship God alone.)
More to the point: the Israelites were instinctively concerned with
maximizing the probabilities of procreation. Religious laws governing
sexual practices reinforced that basic tribal concern. Centuries
later, when the Jews were enslaved in Babylon and the Holiness Code
took the form we know today, such religious laws reinforced the Jews'
sense of being a people set apart from the cultural practices around
them. Today we understand the dignity of women, human sexuality in
general, and homosexuality in particular in ways inconceivable to the
ancient priests who compiled Leviticus. As Christians, we are freed
from the Law and saved by grace (Romans 7:6; Galatians 5:4-6, Titus
1:15).
So, any unrepentant sinners from the previous passages will be in Hell
along with those "Sodomites" they so despise. Unless, one is willing
to concede the point that these are historical rules meant to be
examined in light of HISTORY. Then, when Jesus comes along and
fulfills the scriptures, we see that Jesus (according to those who
wrote about him) brought a message of unconditional love. So, before
we talk any more about how those fill-in-the-blanks will burn in fiery
damnation, maybe we should all bust open our fun-filled copies of
Exodus to discover why we might have first class reservations in Motel
Hell. (I Know I do. I'm wearing a cotton/polyester blend shirt, which
is a definite no-no. I am truly evil incarnate. Sue me)
Which brings up other questions:
* How come we never see people condemning those against immigration:
as Exodus 22:23 demands? (You shall not wrong or oppress a
stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt.) I guess
the Nativist Party is going to Hell along with anybody against
immigration.
* What about Exodus 22:2? (If a thief is found breaking in, and is
beaten to death, no bloodguilt is incurred; BUT if it happens
after sunrise, bloodguilt is incurred). All you need is a Timex to
get off the hook. Right?
* How about Exodus 22:25? (If you lend money to my people; to the
poor among you, you shall not deal with them as a creditor; you
shall not exact interest from them.) Hmm... Looks like the whole
banking industry is Hell-bound with those evil "Sodomites" too!
* And what of those who despise the President, or their local
Governor or Mayor? Exodus 22:28 (You shall not curse God, or curse
a leader of your people.)
* For all you graduates of "tough love" out there, may I present
Exodus 21:17 (Whoever curses father or mother shall be put to
death.)
* And for all you premaritals: Exodus 22:16 (When a man seduces a
virgin who is not engaged to be married, and lies with her, he
shall pay the "bride price" for her and make her his wife. But if
her father refuses to GIVE her to him, he shall pay an amount
equal to the "bride price" for virgins. (Just $199.99 at
Wal-Mart.))
And what if this whole Sodom thing is merely an attempt to convince as
many people as possible to "join the party" with all the "believers"
who will also find themselves attending the eternal bar-b-q? What if
this entire "Sodom equals homosexuality" ploy is nothing more than a
baseless perversion of God's word? Perhaps something that was
originally well-intended, but which now has gone horribly awry. What
of that?
We've seen the refutation of "Sodom equals homosexual" at the Bible's
own hands. The prohibitions imposed against the Israelites were lifted
by both God and Jesus. (By Jesus in Matthew 6:25 and Mark 7:15. God
gives Peter a vision stating the same in Acts 10:9-15. And Paul echoes
those thoughts in Romans 7:6; Galatians 5:4-6, and Titus 1:15.) Those
seeking to vilify homosexuals and whom contend that they are sinful
and damned by God, simply because of a mistaken belief in ancient
purity codes -- which have been revoked by God and Jesus -- need to be
corrected. The perversion of God's word is punishable by eternal
damnation. (Revelation 22:18-19) Let us see to it that no more go to
Hell than need be.
Let's set about correcting a dangerous myth before any more souls are
lost to the fiery depths of Hell. After all, Christians are charged
with spreading the Word, not some perversion of it...
_________________________________________________________________
Bibliography
* A History of God: The 4,000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity
and Islam by Karen Armstrong. (Alfred A. Knopf, 1993)
* The Ancient Egyptian Book of the Dead by R. O. Falkner. (Brittish
Museum, London, 1985)
* The Dictionary of World Myth by Peter Bently, general editor.
(Facts On File, Duncan Baird Publishers 1995)
* The Holy Bible, 3rd Edition by White Harvest Software, Inc. (White
Harvest Software, 1995)
* The Larousse Desk Reference, James Hughes general editor (Larousse
Kingfisher Chambers Inc., 1995)
* The Grolier Multimedia Encyclopedia (versions 6.03 and 7.05) by
Grolier Inc. (Grolier Electronic Publishing, 1993 and 1995)
* The World of the Bible by Roberta L. Harris. (Thames and Hudson
Ltd. 1995)
_________________________________________________________________
Portions [18]Copyright (c) 1995-97 by Dion...@InfiNet.com.
_________________________________________________________________
(This document is refered to in, but is not a part of, [19]Queer: The
FAQ.)
References
1. mailto:lambda...@his.com
2. file://localhost/home1/dionisio/public_html/sin.of.sodom.html#biblo
3. mailto:dion...@infinet.com
4. file://localhost/home1/dionisio/public_html/lexicon.html#fundamentalism
5. file://localhost/home1/dionisio/public_html/lexicon.html#sodom
6. file://localhost/home1/dionisio/public_html/lexicon.html#shiqquwts
7. file://localhost/home1/dionisio/public_html/lexicon.html#towebah
8. file://localhost/home1/dionisio/public_html/lexicon.html#qadesh
9. file://localhost/home1/dionisio/public_html/lexicon.html#yadha
10. file://localhost/home1/dionisio/public_html/lexicon.html#yadha
11. file://localhost/home1/dionisio/public_html/lexicon.html#shakab
12. file://localhost/home1/dionisio/public_html/lexicon.html#shkobeth
13. file://localhost/home1/dionisio/public_html/lexicon.html#raba
14. file://localhost/home1/dionisio/public_html/lexicon.html#fundamentalism
15. file://localhost/home1/dionisio/public_html/lexicon.html#yadha
16. file://localhost/home1/dionisio/public_html/lexicon.html#yadha
17. file://localhost/home1/dionisio/public_html/lexicon.html#yahweh
18. file://localhost/home1/dionisio/public_html/copyright.html
19. file://localhost/home1/dionisio/public_html/queer/homo-faq.html
--
<a href="http://www.infinet.com/~dionisio">My Web Pages</a>
And the Thought of the Moment (tm) is...
AT&T Subspace: The next best thing to beaming there.
Nicholas Santoro
wf...@enter.netxx wrote:
>
> On Wed, 05 Nov 1997 17:58:04 -0600, Nick Santoro <wis...@pheonix.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Well now NATIONWIDE in elections from coast to coast! FAGGOTS LOSE
>
> bigotry he's right. the churches have succeeded in continuing to
> legitimize persecution of americans who are gay.
>
> of course xtians created antisemitism and their bible says slavery is
> ok so im not sure how they think themselves moral when they persecute
> gays...
look FAG!!! The BIBLE is winning, Humans are just following the word of
it.. You need to be STOMPED back into the closet from which you came you
filthy pervert
--
I dont Like Netscape E-Mail !!!
So Reply to me at
Lee
On Sun, 09 Nov 1997 07:43:26 -0600, Nicholas Santoro
<wise...@pissing.on.analerics.grave> wrote:
>look FAG!!! The BIBLE is winning, Humans are just following the word of
>it.. You need to be STOMPED back into the closet from which you came you
>filthy pervert
Exactly what is the point of your post? Do you claim to be a
Christian? Or are you just one of them multitude of people who use
the Bible as a weapon and an excuse for your bigoted hate?
OinK! ~(^@^)~
Nicholas Santoro wrote:
> look FAG!!! The BIBLE is winning, Humans are just following the word
of
> it.. You need to be STOMPED back into the closet from which you came you
> filthy pervert
Temper Temper! <<<<<<<<<<<<< YAWN >>>>>>>>>>>>
RevOinK!
wf...@enter.netxx
On Sun, 09 Nov 1997 07:43:26 -0600, Nicholas Santoro
<wise...@pissing.on.analerics.grave> wrote:
>wf...@enter.netxx wrote:
>>
>> of course xtians created antisemitism and their bible says slavery is
>> ok so im not sure how they think themselves moral when they persecute
>> gays...
>look FAG!!!
gee i wonder if my wife knows...
The BIBLE is winning,
the same bible that was used to justifiy enslaving blacks? yeah you
sound like you know your bible