soc.motss and barbie-isms
Arnold Zwicky
Ben Zimmer, 3/2/06: Tracking snowclones is hard. Let's go shopping:
http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/002892.html
zotling
Vandal...@antisocial.com
>From a March 1st post in comp.arch.embedded (in somebody's
sig-repeats
*many* times): Barbie's law: "Math is hard, let's go shopping!"
>From a Feb 5th post in rec.music.beatles (again in a sig): 'Math is
hard...
let's go shopping!
>From a Jan 28th post in rec.music.beatles (same person's sig):
'English English
is hard. Let's go shopping!
>From an Oct 22nd post in alt.buddha.short.fat.guy: Labels are hard;
let's go shopping!
>From a Jul 23rd post in rec.food.cooking: Geography is hard; let's go
shopping.
And many others, of course.
E J L
Arnold Zwicky
edgar lawrennce <Vandal...@antisocial.com> starts citing:
>Arnold Zwicky wrote:
>> on the Language Log, a seminal moment for nick fitch and
>>soc.motss:
>> Ben Zimmer, 3/2/06: Tracking snowclones is hard. Let's go
>> shopping:
>> http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/002892.html
>>From a March 1st post in comp.arch.embedded (in somebody's
>sig-repeats
>>*many* times): Barbie's law: "Math is hard, let's go shopping!"
[ other cites]
no, no, you truly don't get it. *everybody* involved here understands
that this is now, and has been for a while, a formula. the only
question is where it started. (we pretty much understand what it's
doing now, and ben zimmer could probably produce hundreds or thousands
of recent instances.)
what ben zimmer, and the other ADS-L folks, are interested in is when
it crystallized into its current form and how it spread. the vector
might well have been evil dr. fitchy's postings on soc.motss, which
would be very cool.
zotling
Vandal...@antisocial.com
Arnold Zwicky wrote:
> In article <1141354781.4...@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> edgar lawrennce <Vandal...@antisocial.com> starts citing:
>
> >Arnold Zwicky wrote:
>
> >> on the Language Log, a seminal moment for nick fitch and
> >>soc.motss:
>
> >> Ben Zimmer, 3/2/06: Tracking snowclones is hard. Let's go
> >> shopping:
> >> http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/002892.html
>
> >>From a March 1st post in comp.arch.embedded (in somebody's
> >sig-repeats
> >>*many* times): Barbie's law: "Math is hard, let's go shopping!"
>
> [ other cites]
>
> no, no, you truly don't get it. *everybody* involved here understands
> that this is now, and has been for a while, a formula.
I thought some recent Usenet examples of the formula showing
different wordings and the range of newsgroups in which it
occurs might be of interest to somebody. Perhaps I was mistaken.
> the only
> question is where it started. (we pretty much understand what it's
> doing now, and ben zimmer could probably produce hundreds or thousands
> of recent instances.)
Which might be overkill. I don't read that many newsgroups (so
many
newsgroups, so little time) and wanted to get an idea of what was
happening
with the formula, hence the search. Even reading only soc.motss, one
could see that it is a formula. I thought a quick "snapshot", so to
speak, of
its uses elsewhere might be appropriate. Again, perhaps I was mistaken.
[snip]
E J L
David W. Fenton
news:du86mq$9f8$1...@news.Stanford.EDU:
Hah! Michael Kaplan is a colleague of mine in the Microsoft Access
programming world. Well, he used to be. We had dinner together a few
years ago when he was in NYC for a VBits conference. He's a very
smart guy. Originally he didn't work for Microsoft, but was a
subcontractor, but MS hired him to do work for them.
He was at one time the de facto expert on Jet replication (Jet is
the database engine that ships with Access and is used to store
Windows Active Directory data, as well as being used by a lot of VB
programmers), but then he switched to internationalization issues,
and then MS hired him to take responsibility for that in-house.
Strangely enough, I've ended up as one of the few people left with
Jet replication expertise, which is turning out to be lucrative. But
most of what I know about it I learned from Michael Kaplan.
--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/
Nick Fitch
says...
> what ben zimmer, and the other ADS-L folks, are interested in is when
> it crystallized into its current form and how it spread. the vector
> might well have been evil dr. fitchy's postings on soc.motss, which
> would be very cool.
It would be eyebrow-raising, possibly. But I also spent the early 90s
attempting to introduce Bread Pudding and Toad-In-The-Hole to the West
Coast with limited success. I really don't think I can be credited with
introducing something accidentally with a single off-the-cuff reference
that just repeated what was already current at the time. Despite what Mr
(Dr?) Zimmer suggests.
Not that I'm complaining, but generally speaking I tend to be summoned
with vodka or bisexual sacrifices. I'm not sure what to do do about
someone who calls me up with English Language Usage. I have a nagging
feeling that I should be offerring three wishes. As long as they involve
vodka, bisexual sacrifices and viscera I think we can reach an
agreement.
--Nick
Vandal...@antisocial.com
Nick Fitch wrote:
[snip]
> But I also spent the early 90s
> attempting to introduce Bread Pudding and Toad-In-The-Hole to the West
> Coast with limited success. [snip]
What? Not spotted dick as well?
E J L
Rod Williams
> Not that I'm complaining, but generally speaking I tend to be summoned
> with vodka or bisexual sacrifices. I'm not sure what to do do about
> someone who calls me up with English Language Usage. I have a nagging
> feeling that I should be offerring three wishes. As long as they involve
> vodka, bisexual sacrifices and viscera I think we can reach an
> agreement.
I should have thought that three wishes would be granted only in
response to djinn sacrifices, sexuality notwithstanding.
Christian Hansen
You keep his sex life _well out_ of this thread!
Chris "Not to mention Colcannon and Lancashire hotpot." Hansen
--
Chris Hansen | chrishansenhome at btinternet dot com
"In the end, we'd end up with a pile of pig testicles
and a farrowing house full of highly annoyed screaming
pigs." David Fenton
Mike McKinley
news:MPG.1e72e7924...@news.btinternet.com...
> Not that I'm complaining, but generally speaking I tend to be summoned
> with vodka or bisexual sacrifices.
I invoke thee with hot, ropey loads of jizz.
Frank McQuarry
Mike McKinley wrote:
Why, MissKinley! You're here on a Saturday, and shooting hot ropey loads of
jizz, no less!
Mike McKinley
news:4409B28A...@earthlink.net...
We're having Explore UT -- an open house for the entire fucking
university. We're expecting around 30,000 to attend.
I'm catering the lunch, etc.
Vandal...@antisocial.com
Christian Hansen wrote:
> On 3 Mar 2006 17:34:11 -0800, Vandal...@antisocial.com wrote:
>
> >Nick Fitch wrote:
> >
> >[snip]
> >> But I also spent the early 90s
> >> attempting to introduce Bread Pudding and Toad-In-The-Hole to the West
> >> Coast with limited success. [snip]
> >
> > What? Not spotted dick as well?
>
> You keep his sex life _well out_ of this thread!
>
> Chris "Not to mention Colcannon and Lancashire hotpot." Hansen
What about haggis? What about P..., oh, sorry, wrong Chris.
E J L
Frank McQuarry
Mike McKinley wrote:
> "Frank McQuarry" <fmcq...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:4409B28A...@earthlink.net...
> > Mike McKinley wrote:
> >> "Nick Fitch" <nick.TAKET...@btANDTHIDopenworld.com> wrote in
> >> message
> >> news:MPG.1e72e7924...@news.btinternet.com...
> >> > Not that I'm complaining, but generally speaking I tend to be summoned
> >> > with vodka or bisexual sacrifices.
> >> I invoke thee with hot, ropey loads of jizz.
> > Why, MissKinley! You're here on a Saturday, and shooting hot ropey loads
> > of
> > jizz, no less!
[..]
>
> I'm catering the lunch, etc.
Well, that explains all the jizz.
Ellen Evans
Protein?
--
Ellen Evans If my life wasn't funny, it would
je...@panix.com just be true, and that's unacceptable.
Carrie Fisher
Frank McQuarry
Ellen Evans wrote:
> In article <4409BFC6...@earthlink.net>,
> Frank McQuarry <fmcq...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >Mike McKinley wrote:
> >
> >> "Frank McQuarry" <fmcq...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >> news:4409B28A...@earthlink.net...
> >> > Mike McKinley wrote:
> >> >> "Nick Fitch" <nick.TAKET...@btANDTHIDopenworld.com> wrote in
> >> >> message
> >> >> news:MPG.1e72e7924...@news.btinternet.com...
> >> >> > Not that I'm complaining, but generally speaking I tend to be summoned
> >> >> > with vodka or bisexual sacrifices.
> >> >> I invoke thee with hot, ropey loads of jizz.
> >> > Why, MissKinley! You're here on a Saturday, and shooting hot ropey loads
> >> > of
> >> > jizz, no less!
> >
> >[..]
> >
> >>
> >> I'm catering the lunch, etc.
> >
> >Well, that explains all the jizz.
>
> Protein?
I'd guess it's being used as a topping of some sort.
Mike McKinley
news:ducnoc$s9v$1...@reader2.panix.com...
> In article <4409BFC6...@earthlink.net>,
> Frank McQuarry <fmcq...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>Mike McKinley wrote:
>>> "Frank McQuarry" <fmcq...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>> news:4409B28A...@earthlink.net...
>>> > Mike McKinley wrote:
>>> >> "Nick Fitch" <nick.TAKET...@btANDTHIDopenworld.com> wrote in
>>> >> message
>>> >> news:MPG.1e72e7924...@news.btinternet.com...
>>> >> > Not that I'm complaining, but generally speaking I tend to be
>>> >> > summoned
>>> >> > with vodka or bisexual sacrifices.
>>> >> I invoke thee with hot, ropey loads of jizz.
>>> > Why, MissKinley! You're here on a Saturday, and shooting hot ropey
>>> > loads
>>> > of
>>> > jizz, no less!
>>Well, that explains all the jizz.
> Protein?
All in a day's work for a priapic butch top!
Christian Hansen
wrote:
Now "topping" and "Mike McKinley" are not words that I've ever thought I'd see
in the same posting.
Chris "What a world, what a world." Hansen
Mike McKinley
message news:fmpj02luai405rq23...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 19:02:29 GMT, Frank McQuarry <fmcq...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>>Ellen Evans wrote:
>>> In article <4409BFC6...@earthlink.net>,
>>> Frank McQuarry <fmcq...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> >Mike McKinley wrote:
>>> >> "Frank McQuarry" <fmcq...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>> >> news:4409B28A...@earthlink.net...
>>> >> > Mike McKinley wrote:
>>> >> >> "Nick Fitch" <nick.TAKET...@btANDTHIDopenworld.com> wrote
>>> >> >> in
>>> >> >> message
>>> >> >> news:MPG.1e72e7924...@news.btinternet.com...
>>> >> >> > Not that I'm complaining, but generally speaking I tend to be
>>> >> >> > summoned
>>> >> >> > with vodka or bisexual sacrifices.
>>> >> >> I invoke thee with hot, ropey loads of jizz.
>>> >> > Why, MissKinley! You're here on a Saturday, and shooting hot ropey
>>> >> > loads
>>> >> > of
>>> >> > jizz, no less!
>>> >Well, that explains all the jizz.
>>> Protein?
>>I'd guess it's being used as a topping of some sort.
> Now "topping" and "Mike McKinley" are not words that I've ever thought I'd
> see
> in the same posting.
> Chris "What a world, what a world." Hansen
Oh! Forbear, girlene! Pillow-chewing bottoms the lot of you!
Ruth Lawrence
"Mike McKinley" <mp...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote in message
news:duccna$3h2$2...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu...
I won't laugh.
ruthie.
>
>
Ruth Lawrence
> Frank McQuarry <fmcq...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>Mike McKinley wrote:
>>
>>> "Frank McQuarry" <fmcq...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>> news:4409B28A...@earthlink.net...
>>> > Mike McKinley wrote:
>>> >> "Nick Fitch" <nick.TAKET...@btANDTHIDopenworld.com> wrote in
>>> >> message
>>> >> news:MPG.1e72e7924...@news.btinternet.com...
>>> >> > Not that I'm complaining, but generally speaking I tend to be
>>> >> > summoned
>>> >> > with vodka or bisexual sacrifices.
>>> >> I invoke thee with hot, ropey loads of jizz.
>>> > Why, MissKinley! You're here on a Saturday, and shooting hot ropey
>>> > loads
>>> > of
>>> > jizz, no less!
>>
>>[..]
>>
>>>
>>> I'm catering the lunch, etc.
>>
>>Well, that explains all the jizz.
>
> Protein?
DNA!
Ruth
Ruth Lawrence
It's a Mystery to the inexplicable evil of a bi switch such as moi
Ruth
Charlie Fulton
> In article <1141354781.4...@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> edgar lawrennce <Vandal...@antisocial.com> starts citing:
>
> >Arnold Zwicky wrote:
>
> >> on the Language Log, a seminal moment for nick fitch and
> >>soc.motss:
>
> >> Ben Zimmer, 3/2/06: Tracking snowclones is hard. Let's go
> >> shopping:
> >> http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/002892.html
>
> >>From a March 1st post in comp.arch.embedded (in somebody's
> >sig-repeats
> >>*many* times): Barbie's law: "Math is hard, let's go shopping!"
>
> [ other cites]
>
> no, no, you truly don't get it. *everybody* involved here understands
> that this is now, and has been for a while, a formula. the only
> question is where it started. (we pretty much understand what it's
> doing now, and ben zimmer could probably produce hundreds or thousands
> of recent instances.)
>
> what ben zimmer, and the other ADS-L folks, are interested in is when
> it crystallized into its current form and how it spread.
It was a real-life Barbie scandal in the mid-80s that was lampooned in
a much-loved Simpsons episode, natch.
I keep waiting for *my* primary contribution to the English language to
arc over into common use, but it has yet to.
Charlie
Arnold Zwicky
charlie fulton <fulton...@gmail.com> comments on "Math is hard,
let's go shopping!":
>Arnold Zwicky wrote:
>>... *everybody* involved here understands
>> that this is now, and has been for a while, a formula. the only
>> question is where it started...
>> what ben zimmer, and the other ADS-L folks, are interested in is
>> when it crystallized into its current form and how it spread.
>It was a real-life Barbie scandal in the mid-80s that was lampooned
>in a much-loved Simpsons episode, natch.
well, it's more complicated than that, which is why ben zimmer wrote
it up. the "Math is hard, let's go shopping!" version wasn't in the
original Barbie scandal, nor on the Simpsons.
zotling
Charlie Fulton
I thought you linguist people prided yourselves on not picking nits.
I've no doubt Nick Fitch was inspired by the mid-80s Barbie scandal
and the Simpsons, whatever the exact wording. What are you driving
at? Some oddball Pogo or Ignatz and Krazy Kat reference or something?
Charlie
Nigger Lyncher
>> in article <1141605091.4...@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
>> charlie fulton <fulton...@gmail.com> comments on "Math is hard,
>> let's go shopping!":
>>
>> >Arnold Zwicky wrote:
>>
>> >>... *everybody* involved here understands
>> >> that this is now, and has been for a while, a formula. the only
>> >> question is where it started...
>>
>> >> what ben zimmer, and the other ADS-L folks, are interested in is
>> >> when it crystallized into its current form and how it spread.
>>
>> >It was a real-life Barbie scandal in the mid-80s that was lampooned
>> >in a much-loved Simpsons episode, natch.
>>
>> well, it's more complicated than that, which is why ben zimmer wrote
>> it up. the "Math is hard, let's go shopping!" version wasn't in the
>> original Barbie scandal, nor on the Simpsons.
>
Zwicky: you ignoramus. It should be:
"version wasn't in the original Barbie scandal, OR on the Simpsons"
Now what do you have to say for yourself?
Michael Palmer
<fulton...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Arnold Zwicky wrote:
>> in article <1141605091.4...@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
>> charlie fulton <fulton...@gmail.com> comments on "Math is hard,
>> let's go shopping!":
>>
>> >Arnold Zwicky wrote:
>>
>> >>... *everybody* involved here understands
>> >> that this is now, and has been for a while, a formula. the only
>> >> question is where it started...
>>
>> >> what ben zimmer, and the other ADS-L folks, are interested in is
>> >> when it crystallized into its current form and how it spread.
>>
>> >It was a real-life Barbie scandal in the mid-80s that was lampooned
>> >in a much-loved Simpsons episode, natch.
>>
>> well, it's more complicated than that, which is why ben zimmer wrote
>> it up. the "Math is hard, let's go shopping!" version wasn't in the
>> original Barbie scandal, nor on the Simpsons.
>
>I thought you linguist people prided yourselves on not picking nits.
When it comes to documentation I think you'll find linguists equal to
any astronomers, chemists, physicists, etc., as pickers of nits.
>I've no doubt Nick Fitch was inspired by the mid-80s Barbie scandal
>and the Simpsons, whatever the exact wording.
Perhaps, but there's nothing in Nick's 5/27/1994 post to indicate that
he was either aware of the Barbie scandal or watched the Simpsons. If
I recall correctly, Nick had at least one Barbie in his SD (?LJ)
apartment (indeed, when I last visited him, he had mutually fellating
dolls hanging from a light fixture, but I can't remember whether they
were Barbies or Kens), although I don't know when he obtained it or
whether it was a "talker". Considering Nick's appreciation for the
vapid and the absurd, he could easily have put the two phrases
together without knowledge of the scandal or the Simpsons episode. It
is, after all, the *exact* wording that's important here, and Nick's
post is at present the earliest documented appearance.
--
Michael Palmer
Claremont, California
mpa...@panix.com
Michael Palmer
zwi...@Turing.Stanford.EDU (Arnold Zwicky) wrote:
>on the Language Log, a seminal moment for nick fitch and soc.motss:
>
>Ben Zimmer, 3/2/06: Tracking snowclones is hard. Let's go shopping:
> http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/002892.html
Speaking of stereotypes that just will not die, the most recent Sylvan
Learning Center TeeVee ad features a little (?African American) girl
with math issues.
Mike McKinley
news:440a6904$0$1144$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> It's a Mystery to the inexplicable evil of a bi switch such as moi
Well, darling, whatever blows your tutu up.
Arnold Zwicky
charlie fulton <fulton...@gmail.com> writes:
>Arnold Zwicky wrote:
>> well, it's more complicated than that, which is why ben zimmer
>> wrote it up. the "Math is hard, let's go shopping!" version
>> wasn't in the original Barbie scandal, nor on the Simpsons.
>I thought you linguist people prided yourselves on not picking nits.
??
ben zimmer is (among other things) a lexicographer, with a special
interest in the histories of words and language formulas. the details
are exactly what he's interested in.
>I've no doubt Nick Fitch was inspired by the mid-80s Barbie scandal
>and the Simpsons, whatever the exact wording.
nobody doubts this. but it's *exactly* the history of this wording
that ben was investigating. (this specific wording then served as the
basis of a snowclone "X is hard, let's go shopping!" and further
variants.)
language formulas usually have some early history in which an idea is
expressed in several different ways. at some point one version ("one
man's meat is another man's poison", for instance) becomes the
canonical and conventional way of expressing the idea (and sometimes
this is then riffed on). lexicographers who trace the history of
expressions try to date and locate the canonical versions as precisely
as possible.
this can be surprisingly hard work. when i've fallen into textual
history questions like these, i've usually tried to hand them off to
the people who do this stuff professionally and have vast resources to
hand for searching.
an example: there is now a snowclone i call X3: "The three most
important Xs in Y are: Z, Z, Z" (conveying something like 'the only
really important X in Y is Z'). i have a pile of examples, all
relatively recent.
now, for millennia people have emphasized things by saying them three
times; examples going way back are easily found (and were found, by
people who read my ADS-L and Language Log postings on X3). but the
modern formula is much more specific than that, and we can reasonably
ask when it got fixed. this is where i appeal to the professionals.
last i heard, the earliest occurrence (found by ADS-Ler Barry Popik)
was from 1956, in a real estate context, and Z was "location".
you can say that questions like this don't interest you, and that's
fine; tastes differ. but the questions are intrinsically about
details.
zotling
Ellen Evans
Arnold Zwicky <zwi...@Turing.Stanford.EDU> wrote:
[]
>language formulas usually have some early history in which an idea is
>expressed in several different ways.
I ran across this bit of information in Everybody Was So Young: Gerald and
Sara Murphy and was quite surprised. Apparently the formula "Living Well
is the Best Revenge" came into modern usage as a result of Gerald Murphy
mentioning the quote - originally from George Herbert, but fairly obscure
at the time Murphy brought it up - to Calvin Tomkins, who used it as the
title for his book about the Murphys and the Lost Generation. It's such a
ubiquitous phrase, I found it odd that it was, apparently, introduced into
modern usage in such an offhand way.
Nick Fitch
says...
> Perhaps, but there's nothing in Nick's 5/27/1994 post to indicate that
> he was either aware of the Barbie scandal or watched the Simpsons.
I know nothing of any mid-80s Barbie scandal, given that American dolly
news has never really been properly incorporated into the London gay
scene. Unless this scandal involved My Little Pony and a bucket of
lubricant I expect it would have been considered very boring to everyone
at the time except, possibly, for the adult babies. And I hardly ever
watch the Simpsons.
> I recall correctly, Nick had at least one Barbie in his SD (?LJ)
> apartment (indeed, when I last visited him, he had mutually fellating
> dolls hanging from a light fixture, but I can't remember whether they
> were Barbies or Kens),
I suspect they were the Malibu Beach Barbie and the GI Jane Barbie that
were locked together in Sapphic contortionism as part of Ilona's Xmas do
in Chicago the previous year. I don't actually remember taking them home
and hanging them up, though. And for the life of me I can't think why I
would have taken a pair of lesbian Barbies halfway across the US and
suspended them from my light fixtures. I may have been drunk. For
several months, possibly.
> although I don't know when he obtained it or whether it was a "talker".
They didn't talk. Though that may have been because they both had their
mouths full.
> Considering Nick's appreciation for the
> vapid and the absurd, he could easily have put the two phrases
> together without knowledge of the scandal or the Simpsons episode. It
> is, after all, the *exact* wording that's important here, and Nick's
> post is at present the earliest documented appearance.
I'm sure the phrase was already current by the time I got round to using
it. But if I'm going to go down as the man who introduced the world to
"Math is hard, let's go shopping!" then I want copyright and royalties
on my intellectual property.
Ellen Evans
Nick Fitch <nick.TAKET...@btANDTHIDopenworld.com> wrote:
>In article <440be583....@news.panix.com>, mpa...@panix.com
>says...
>
>lubricant
Eeeeuuuw!
Eeuww! Eeuww! Euww!
David W. Fenton
news:duhlus$akg$1...@news.Stanford.EDU:
> an example: there is now a snowclone i call X3: "The three most
> important Xs in Y are: Z, Z, Z" (conveying something like 'the
> only really important X in Y is Z'). i have a pile of examples,
> all relatively recent.
The instance of this that I have known longest, and that I've always
seen as the source of the variations on it has Y=real estate and
Z=location. I'm not sure what the X is, though.
Is there some version of it that predates the real estate version?
Or is the real estate version not actually an example of this
snowclone?
--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/
Arnold Zwicky
david fenton <XXXu...@dfenton.com.invalid> asks:
>zwi...@Turing.Stanford.EDU (Arnold Zwicky) wrote in
>news:duhlus$akg$1...@news.Stanford.EDU:
>> an example: there is now a snowclone i call X3: "The three most
>> important Xs in Y are: Z, Z, Z" (conveying something like 'the
>> only really important X in Y is Z'). i have a pile of examples,
>> all relatively recent.
>The instance of this that I have known longest, and that I've always
>seen as the source of the variations on it has Y=real estate and
>Z=location. I'm not sure what the X is, though.
which is the one i mention in my posting. X is "consideration" or
"thing" or some other bleached noun.
>Is there some version of it that predates the real estate version?
>Or is the real estate version not actually an example of this
>snowclone?
as i said in the posting, this seems to be the model the snowclone is
built on; in a sense, it's the original example. in any case, it's
the earliest version that's been found with the specialized
form. (actually, the 1956 version is a variant: "LOCATION LOCATION
LOCATION The 3 things to look for..." -- in a real estate listing.)
zotling
David W. Fenton
> in article <Xns977EA65F48989f9...@127.0.0.1>,
> david fenton <XXXu...@dfenton.com.invalid> asks:
>
> >zwi...@Turing.Stanford.EDU (Arnold Zwicky) wrote in
> >news:duhlus$akg$1...@news.Stanford.EDU:
>
> >> an example: there is now a snowclone i call X3: "The three
> >> most important Xs in Y are: Z, Z, Z" (conveying something like
> >> 'the only really important X in Y is Z'). i have a pile of
> >> examples, all relatively recent.
>
> >The instance of this that I have known longest, and that I've
> >always seen as the source of the variations on it has Y=real
> >estate and Z=location. I'm not sure what the X is, though.
>
> which is the one i mention in my posting. X is "consideration" or
> "thing" or some other bleached noun.
Sorry, but what posting are you referring to? I didn't see the
specifics in what you'd posted in soc.motss. Perhaps my poor
eyesight is causing me to overlook something?
Arnold Zwicky
david fenton <XXXu...@dfenton.com.invalid> asks:
>zwi...@Turing.Stanford.EDU (Arnold Zwicky) wrote in
>news:duib58$2f9$1...@news.Stanford.EDU:
>> in article <Xns977EA65F48989f9...@127.0.0.1>,
>> david fenton <XXXu...@dfenton.com.invalid> asks:
>> >zwi...@Turing.Stanford.EDU (Arnold Zwicky) wrote in
>> >news:duhlus$akg$1...@news.Stanford.EDU:
>> >> an example: there is now a snowclone i call X3: "The three
>> >> most important Xs in Y are: Z, Z, Z" (conveying something
>> >> like 'the only really important X in Y is Z'). i have a
>> >> pile of examples, all relatively recent.
>> >The instance of this that I have known longest, and that I've
>> >always seen as the source of the variations on it has Y=real
>> >estate and Z=location. I'm not sure what the X is, though.
>> which is the one i mention in my posting. X is "consideration"
>> or "thing" or some other bleached noun.
>Sorry, but what posting are you referring to? I didn't see the
>specifics in what you'd posted in soc.motss. Perhaps my poor
>eyesight is causing me to overlook something?
what i wrote, just after my characterization of the X3 snowclone
(quoted above):
-----
now, for millennia people have emphasized things by saying them three
times; examples going way back are easily found (and were found, by
people who read my ADS-L and Language Log postings on X3). but the
modern formula is much more specific than that, and we can reasonably
ask when it got fixed. this is where i appeal to the professionals.
last i heard, the earliest occurrence (found by ADS-Ler Barry Popik)
was from 1956, in a real estate context, and Z was "location".
-----
i know, i know, i should have spelled it all out.
zotling
David W. Fenton
No, that was clearly a case where my eyes failed me. I was skimming
when I don't really have the ability to do that accurately any more.
Good news on that front, though: I went to a different doctor, and
am under two different new treatments that seem to be having very
good results. The eyes haven't improved yet, but everything else
has, which should lead to the subsidence of the uveitis.
I've only been on the new medications for a week, so it's too early
to expect any drastic improvement.
Fingers crossed. X
Chris Ambidge
>-----
>now, for millennia people have emphasized things by saying them three
>times;
(you'll notice we emphasise *your* importance with three
"i"s in biiig)
this threefold emphasis was brought home to me in 2002 when my
youngest nephew got married. Shema, Tom's wife, is quite firm
and active in her muslim faith, so after the civil marriage
had taken place (this was at a golf & country club north
of London) and the registrars had left, the Imam came and
there was a religious wedding -- and all the questions were
asked (and answered) three times.
>examples going way back are easily found (and were found, by
>people who read my ADS-L and Language Log postings on X3). but the
>modern formula is much more specific than that, and we can reasonably
>ask when it got fixed. this is where i appeal to the professionals.
>last i heard, the earliest occurrence (found by ADS-Ler Barry Popik)
>was from 1956, in a real estate context, and Z was "location".
>-----
>
>i know, i know, i should have spelled it all out.
shouldn't that be "I know, I know, I know"?
and while we're wondering about exact phrasing and presentation,
what was the first (and repeated, one assumes) use of the now
canonical "PVT EMAIL"?
ailuropoda melanoleuca torontonensis
--
"In the end, we'd end up with a pile of pig testicles and a farrowing
house full of highly annoyed screaming pigs" -- David Fenton
Ken Rudolph
>> I recall correctly, Nick had at least one Barbie in his SD (?LJ)
>> apartment (indeed, when I last visited him, he had mutually fellating
>> dolls hanging from a light fixture, but I can't remember whether they
>> were Barbies or Kens),
>
> I suspect they were the Malibu Beach Barbie and the GI Jane Barbie that
> were locked together in Sapphic contortionism as part of Ilona's Xmas do
> in Chicago the previous year. I don't actually remember taking them home
> and hanging them up, though. And for the life of me I can't think why I
> would have taken a pair of lesbian Barbies halfway across the US and
> suspended them from my light fixtures. I may have been drunk. For
> several months, possibly.
This was after the Mik dinner in San Diego, iirc. Michael P. and I
dropped in on your apartment on the way back to L.A.; and sure
enough there were the infamous Barbies. I remember it well.
--Ken Rudolph
Ruth Lawrence
Tutu! Moi? I have lowered my butchitude sufficiently
for gothy gowns, but tutu? Nevah, dahlink!
Ruth
Nick Fitch
> and while we're wondering about exact phrasing and presentation,
> what was the first (and repeated, one assumes) use of the now
> canonical "PVT EMAIL"?
The introduction of the pre-canonical "PVT E MAIL" came from a twit who
went under the handle of "HUNG+". He ran an early-90s bulletin board
called ADONIS, and pissed off just about everyone here in the first
quarter of 1994 by being a complete pillock. The first recorded use I
could find was on March 16 1994. Google on the soc.motss thread
"Net.citizenship as ex" and it's the first posting, from ADONIS BBS.
The first use of the canonical "PVT EMAIL" seems to have been on
soc.motss on March 30th 1994, from Sylvia. Google on the thread "Gosh,
I'm so fucking bored"
Arnold Zwicky
david fenton <XXXu...@dfenton.com.invalid> reports:
>... Good news on that front, though: I went to a different doctor,
>and am under two different new treatments that seem to be having
>very good results. The eyes haven't improved yet, but everything
>else has, which should lead to the subsidence of the uveitis.
good news indeed.
b a in p a
Arnold Zwicky
nick fitch <nick.TAKET...@btANDTHIDopenworld.com> reports:
>In article <IvqqG...@ecf.utoronto.ca>, amb...@ecf.toronto.edu says...
>> and while we're wondering about exact phrasing and
>> presentation, what was the first (and repeated, one assumes) use
>> of the now canonical "PVT EMAIL"?
>The introduction of the pre-canonical "PVT E MAIL" came from a twit
>who went under the handle of [name withheld]. He ran an early-90s
>bulletin board... and pissed off just about everyone here
>in the first quarter of 1994 by being a complete pillock. The first
>recorded use I could find was on March 16 1994. Google on the
>soc.motss thread "Net.citizenship as ex" and it's the first
>posting,...
let's hope this doesn't evoke the guy.
>The first use of the canonical "PVT EMAIL" seems to have been on
>soc.motss on March 30th 1994, from Sylvia. Google on the thread
>"Gosh, I'm so fucking bored"
my first response was to think, oh so *recently*! but then i realized
that this was a dozen years ago. eek.
alex adams
Arnold Zwicky
chris ambidge <amb...@ecf.toronto.edu> asks:
> [biiig arnold, biiig arnold, biiig arnold]
>>i know, i know, i should have spelled it all out.
> shouldn't that be "I know, I know, I know"?
no, no, that would be one too many "I know"s. some things come in
twos rather than threes:
Hear, Hear!
There, there, dear, don't cry.
I'm shocked, *shocked*.
Faster, Faster Pussycat...
Bye bye!
[and many more]
zotling
Nick Fitch
says...
> let's hope this doesn't evoke the guy.
As you say, this was a dozen years ago and, frankly, would anyone even
notice the twit today? If it weren't for my killfile this and almost
every other newsgroup would be unreadable, with or without the return of
the horses' asses of yesteryear.
Tim McDaniel
Different "two things" here: it's _Faster, Pussycat! Kill! Kill!_
But the first user comment at IMDB is back to threes, like the three
wild women and the three fast cars in the movie:
Great! Great! Great! Love it! Love it! Love it!
--
"Me, I love the USA; I never miss an episode." -- Paul "Fruitbat" Sleigh
Tim McDaniel; Reply-To: tm...@panix.com
Arnold Zwicky
tim mcdaniel <tm...@panix.com> corrects me:
>In article <dukegt$f2i$1...@news.Stanford.EDU>,
>Arnold Zwicky <zwi...@Turing.Stanford.EDU> wrote:
>>some things come in twos rather than threes:
>> Faster, Faster Pussycat...
>Different "two things" here: it's _Faster, Pussycat! Kill! Kill!_
right you are. there are, amazingly, 819 google webhits on the
"faster faster" version. ok, 33,200 for the "kill! kill!" version.
zotling
Jed Davis
> last i heard, the earliest occurrence (found by ADS-Ler Barry Popik)
> was from 1956, in a real estate context, and Z was "location".
I wonder how old "net net net", as discussed not long ago in another
newsfroup, is. Speaking of real estate.
--
(let ((C call-with-current-continuation)) (apply (lambda (x y) (x y)) (map
((lambda (r) ((C C) (lambda (s) (r (lambda l (apply (s s) l)))))) (lambda
(f) (lambda (l) (if (null? l) C (lambda (k) (display (car l)) ((f (cdr l))
(C k))))))) '((#\J #\d #\D #\v #\s) (#\e #\space #\a #\i #\newline)))))
Arnold Zwicky
jed davis <jd...@panix.com> asks, cryptically:
>I wonder how old "net net net", as discussed not long ago in another
>newsfroup, is. Speaking of real estate.
?
the art exhibit <net.net.net>? or what?
zotling, baffled
Ken Rudolph
Not that it necessarily means anything; but I've often heard this
usage for things like movie profits...it made $1 million net net
net. Same thing with profits on the sale of a house. Why three
nets? I have a feeling there's a reason; but I don't know what it is.
--Ken Rudolph
Jed Davis
It's this weird real estate term. The first result from Google,
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/netnetnet.asp , seems reasonable.
Apparently -- this was an item of discussion in the other place --
many people believe that each of the three "net"s stands for some
category of operating costs associated with the property in question,
and they're all wrong; and two such people rarely agree on the
specific list of alleged meanings. Something like that.
Charlie Fulton
> Nick Fitch wrote:
> > In article <440be583....@news.panix.com>, mpa...@panix.com
> > says...
>
> >> I recall correctly, Nick had at least one Barbie in his SD (?LJ)
> >> apartment (indeed, when I last visited him, he had mutually fellating
> >> dolls hanging from a light fixture, but I can't remember whether they
> >> were Barbies or Kens),
> >
> > I suspect they were the Malibu Beach Barbie and the GI Jane Barbie that
> > were locked together in Sapphic contortionism as part of Ilona's Xmas do
> > in Chicago the previous year.
Say, didja know?: "Malibu Beach Barbie" is a direct refernece to the
character "Malibu" played in the '67 flick DON'T MAKE WAVES by
Sharon Tate?
Pre-murder marketing!
Charlie
Charlie Fulton
> Nick Fitch wrote:
> > In article <440be583....@news.panix.com>, mpa...@panix.com
> > says...
>
> >> I recall correctly, Nick had at least one Barbie in his SD (?LJ)
> >> apartment (indeed, when I last visited him, he had mutually fellating
> >> dolls hanging from a light fixture, but I can't remember whether they
> >> were Barbies or Kens),
> >
> > I suspect they were the Malibu Beach Barbie and the GI Jane Barbie that
> > were locked together in Sapphic contortionism as part of Ilona's Xmas do
> > in Chicago the previous year.
Say, didja know?: "Malibu Beach Barbie" is a direct refernece to the
Michael Palmer
<fulton...@gmail.com> wrote:
The records of the development team responsible for MBB make no
reference either to Ms. Tate or to "Don't Make Waves".
--
Michael Palmer
Claremont, California
mpa...@panix.com