The Nextdoor Neighbor
rich...@library.tmc.edu
neighbor came knocking on our door. Turns out her husband (they'd been
married for 18 years) dumped her a couple of days previously and she
needed someone to talk with. Our online friend Michael had just
arrived from Kansas City but we listened sympathetically, took her to
dinner with us, etc.
Hers was quite a story. From a very well-to-do family, a long (and for
a while highly successful) career in retail, then in the early 90s an
abrupt fall from the high-life. She lost a six-figure job, he lost a
six-figure job, she invested all her money in his start up company, it
folded, they declared bankruptcy, yadda yadda yadda.
He left her a week after starting a good-paying job after having spent
2 years in a low-paying job while she earned the income -- and he paid
the bills. And told her that they didn't have enough money to buy her
a new pair of glasses. And then a month before he dumped her he paid
cash for a slightly used Miata convertible.
And that was only half of it, of course. She suffered from chronic
back pain, chronic headaches, chronic everything. She was, from what
we could tell, addicted to prescription pain medications. She was
often giddy and high as a kite. She was often mumbling and incoherent.
A month after her husband left her, she lost her job.
I didn't have a whole lot of patience for her, I'm afraid. I did my
time with an out of control, emotionally wrecked, alcohol abusing
relative (my father.) I'm extremely leery of getting close to anyone
who seems to be following that path, and that was certainly the case
with our nextdoor neighbor.
Jeremy, not surprisingly, was the trouper. I'm not sure what it was --
whether it was the fact that she's just about the same age as Jeremy's
mom, or her exquisite taste when it comes to home decorating, or what.
He was there for her, regardless, whether it was the fainting spells,
the trips to the emergency room, taking care of her dogs, making her
eat and drink something, whatever. I cringed whenever the doorbell
rang, or her voice came on the telephone line; he just did what needed
to be done.
And, yes, the past tense is for a reason.
Yesterday evening her psychiatrist stopped by -- had anyone seen her
in the past few days? The last time I saw her was Monday, Jeremy
probably saw her Tuesday morning or afternoon.
We called Rich, our landlord, who came over with the key. Her door was
bolted from the inside, as it has been in the past. Rich called HPD
who were on scene within 10 minutes. They tried the door, they lifted
door for the mail slot -- and there was a stench. HPD called HFD which
was on the scene with an ambulance and a fire truck 10 minutes later.
They forced open the door, Jeremy and I grabbed the dogs, and they
found her upstairs in her bedroom on her back at the end of her bed,
dead for a couple of days or more.
Was it a seizure? Was it an overdose? Accidental or self-inflicted? I
suppose we'll hear at some point.
Sometime after the medical examiner had come and gone and the body had
been removed, Jeremy finally got hold of her husband. (She kicked him
out after he dumped her and they'd finally begun divorce proceedings
but it hadn't been finalized.) He came over about an hour later -- and
we did our best to be flat, dull, unemotional, calm. If one tenth of
the things she told us about him are true he's the biggest asshole
I've ever met.
Yes, we said, we'll keep the dogs overnight. Yes, when you meet Rich
here tomorrow morning you can get the dogs then. Or you can wait until
the evening when we're home and get them at that point.
Someone, we pointed out, needs to call her son, who's going to school
out in California. We don't even know his last name, since he was from
her first marriage, not this one, much less how to get hold of him. I
can't say I'm overly optimistic that the newly widowed husband will do
the right thing -- he's been pretty impervious to doing so heretofore.
We're more inclined to think that he'll back a moving van up to the
townhouse and take everything out -- except that for the past 2-3
months he'd been angling to have her evicted so that he could move
back in.
Jeremy's been remarkably calm about all of it, rather moreso than I
have been. I think that's partly because there have been "things to
do" -- once that stops, who knows?
It's a really pretty day here in Houston, at least on the outside.
rpj
rich...@library.tmc.edu
First Presbyterian Church. She was a popular and well-regarded member
who sang with the choir at the 8:30 Sunday morning service. Amazingly,
her son Bryan, who graduated from Stanford just a few days before his
mother died, took care of the funeral arrangements AND gave the
eulogy, something neither Jeremy nor I could have done for Debbie, let
alone our own mothers.
In the meantime Debbie's would-have-been-ex has moved back in to the
townhouse they shared -- the very next day, in fact. We're pretty sure
he would have moved in that evening if we hadn't already given Debbie
her key back a couple of week's previously. He was at the memorial
service, of course, standing in line with Bryan and Bryan's father to
receive hugs and sympathy.
We're still rather stunned by it all.
rpj
rich...@library.tmc.edu
>Was it a seizure? Was it an overdose? Accidental or self-inflicted? I
>suppose we'll hear at some point.
Whether we ever would have heard from the would-have-been-ex is
another story. As it turns out, however, a call to the local medical
examiner's office reveals that it's a matter of public record. In this
case:
Natural death, acute peritonitis with colonic rupture
Which in some ways is even more disturbing than the idea of a possible
overdose, inasmuch as she was hospitalized for this problem a few
weeks ago, then checked herself out when the hospital couldn't or
wouldn't provide a GI specialist to come see her in the hospital.
rpj
B Slinker
>>Was it a seizure? Was it an overdose? Accidental or self-inflicted? I
>>suppose we'll hear at some point.
> Whether we ever would have heard from the would-have-been-ex is
> another story. As it turns out, however, a call to the local medical
> examiner's office reveals that it's a matter of public record. In this
> case:
> Natural death, acute peritonitis with colonic rupture
I hope you feel truly rotten about your obnoxious public speculation on
whether or not she died of an overdose or committed suicide.
-Beth
--
Beth Linker Ann B. for President!
bli...@panix.com Burlingham/Burlingham in 2004!
http://www.panix.com/~blinker
rich...@library.tmc.edu
>rich...@library.tmc.edu wrote:
>> On Fri, 11 May 2001 14:20:07 GMT, rich...@library.tmc.edu wrote:
>
>>>Was it a seizure? Was it an overdose? Accidental or self-inflicted? I
>>>suppose we'll hear at some point.
>
>> Whether we ever would have heard from the would-have-been-ex is
>> another story. As it turns out, however, a call to the local medical
>> examiner's office reveals that it's a matter of public record. In this
>> case:
>
>> Natural death, acute peritonitis with colonic rupture
>
>I hope you feel truly rotten about your obnoxious public speculation on
>whether or not she died of an overdose or committed suicide.
No, actually, I don't feel rotten about it at all. It was a perfectly
plausible explanation given the context in which everything occurred.
Oh, yeah:
Fuck you, too.
rpj
rich...@library.tmc.edu
Anderson) wrote:
>Beth Linker:
>>Richard Jasper:
>>>Richard Jasper:
>
>>>>Was it a seizure? Was it an overdose? Accidental or self-
>>>>inflicted? I suppose we'll hear at some point.
>
>>>Natural death, acute peritonitis with colonic rupture
>
>>I hope you feel truly rotten about your obnoxious public
>>speculation on whether or not she died of an overdose or
>>committed suicide.
>
>Would it even occur to him he should?
As usual, you'll have to enlighten me. Which part is rottenly
obnoxious? Speculating that it may have been an overdose? Or doing so
publicly?
I don't think there's anything obnoxious or unusual about speculating
as to the cause of a friend's untimely death, especially if context
and circumstances seem to be pointing in one direction. In this case,
our neighbor had an obvious problem managing her medications and on
more than one occasion had expressed suicidal thoughts.
Likewise, I also don't think there's anything at all slanderous about
suggesting someone may have died of an overdose, either accidental or
intentional. For it to be slanderous it would have to cast the person
in a bad light, and for that to happen you'd pretty much have to agree
with the premise that accidental overdoses and suicide are morally
reprehensible. I don't think they are but maybe you and Beth do. If
so, I think you're the ones who have a problem.
And, yes, I did wrote about it all publicly. I could point to dozens
of other examples in soc.motss of people who have discussed the death
of friends and loved ones, including those who committed suicide. The
only difference I can see is that unlike me they've known for a fact
what the cause of death was. That isn't something I knew on Friday and
*is* something I knew on Tuesday.
It wasn't a happy story. It didn't have a happy ending.
rpj
Eric Bohlman
If you were discovered dead in your bed, and the only information someone
had was that you were in a relationship with another man, guess what
perfectly plausible speculation most people would come up with? Four
letters, starts with 'A'.
Ellen Evans
<rich...@library.tmc.edu> wrote:
[]
>I don't think there's anything obnoxious or unusual about speculating
>as to the cause of a friend's untimely death,
Over coffee, in the kitchen? Human, if not exactly admirable. But on an
international newsgroup, about someone you only bring up because it points
to a drama in your life?
Er, no.
--
Ellen Evans 17 Across: The "her" of "Leave Her to Heaven"
je...@panix.com New York Times, 7/14/96
Paul Wallich
rich...@library.tmc.edu wrote:
Acute peritonitis with colonic rupture in someone who was just
hospitalized for GI problems is not "natural death" any more than
exsanguination in someone who was just stabbed. The not-quite
ex could probably hold the hospital up for a nice nest egg. Oy.
paul saddened
rich...@library.tmc.edu
Yes, that would be perfectly plausible. And there's nothing wrong with
such speculation, for that matter.
What's wrong is the judgmentalism which usually accompanies it --
"Well, yes, of course, it figures, doesn't it? He's a big ol' fag,
after all..." And "Well, that's what you get for letting another man
put his dick up your ass."
If you want to read judgmentalism into "was it an overdose?" that's
your prerogative. But it's also something YOU are doing, not me.
rpj
rich...@library.tmc.edu
>I really have a hard time thinking that that if Tim or Kevin (or any
>of the many others who have posted similar stories) hadn't *known* the
>cause of death and had publicly wondered aloud about it, no one would
>have suggested to them that doing so was somehow obnoxious or
>unseemly.
You can say that this was a Freudian slip if you want. In reality it's
the result of shoddy editing. The sentence was intended to read:
I really have a hard time thinking that if Tim or Kevin (or any of the
many others who have posted similar stories) hadn't *know* the cause
of death and had publicly wondered aloud about it that *anyone* would
have suggested to them that doing so was somehow obnoxious or
unseemly.
rpj
rich...@library.tmc.edu
>In article <3b02aedc...@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>,
> <rich...@library.tmc.edu> wrote:
>[]
>>I don't think there's anything obnoxious or unusual about speculating
>>as to the cause of a friend's untimely death,
>
>Over coffee, in the kitchen? Human, if not exactly admirable. But on an
>international newsgroup, about someone you only bring up because it points
>to a drama in your life?
>Er, no.
Tim Wilson used this international newsgroup to discuss at length his
mother's illness and subsequent demise and no one told him it was
inappropriate.
Kevin Michael Vail used this international newsgroup to discuss the
painful detail of his other father's death and no one told him it was
inappropriate.
No one suggested that either Tim or Kevin were bringing up these
deaths just so that they could point to some drama in their lives.
I really have a hard time thinking that that if Tim or Kevin (or any
of the many others who have posted similar stories) hadn't *known* the
cause of death and had publicly wondered aloud about it, no one would
have suggested to them that doing so was somehow obnoxious or
unseemly.
rpj
Tim Wilson
Don't ever mention my name or my family again in your pathetic attempt
to defend yourself, you horrible piece of shit.
What I did was about *me* and *my family*, posted to share what was
going on in *my* life with people I knew (granted, with exceptions) to
care about that life. It was not about a casual acquaintance posted for
whatever fucked-up reasons you posted that awful story to people that
you ought to know full well by-and-large (granted, with exceptions)
don't give a rat's ass about what you post.
Blech.
Kevin Michael Vail
<rich...@library.tmc.edu> wrote:
> Kevin Michael Vail used this international newsgroup to discuss the
> painful detail of his other father's death and no one told him it was
> inappropriate.
It would be painful indeed, if he were dead, which he isn't. My
posting was on the fact that he, my mother, and I are all becoming
painfully aware of his mortality.
--
Kevin Michael Vail | a billion stars go spinning through the night,
ke...@vaildc.net | blazing high above your head.
. . . . . . . . . | But _in_ you is the presence that
. . . . . . . . . | will be, when all the stars are dead. (Rainer Maria Rilke)
rich...@library.tmc.edu
Anderson) wrote:
>What I think would profit you greatly is to study those two
>cases (I can send you the texts, if need be) in detail and to
>figure out how those accounts differed from the case of your
>report about your neighbor.
>By that, I mean work on it until you *do* see why a number of
>people might easily have their accounts moving and illuminating
>about both their personal situations and the general human
>condition and at the same time without inconsistency have found
>yours distasteful in various ways.
>The time you spend doing such an exercise might serve you well
>in the future. The time spent trying after the fact to justify
>yourself, most of all to fantasize that you're being unfairly
>persecuted, is *for sure* wasted energy.
Unfairly persecuted?
I've been told point blank that posting about the death of a friend is
blatant Me!Me!Me! ism.
It's just about the most hurtful, most hypcritical, most idiotic thing
anyone soc.motss has ever said to me, and that includes Charlie
Fulton's repeated suggestions that I sexually abuse my children.
Face it, fuckwad:
You're perfectly willing to condone behavior from someone you like and
perfectly willing to dump heaping mounds of kaka over someone you
don't.
You are completely and totally unbelievable. Every time I think it's
not possible for you and your ilk to sink lower, you prove me wrong.
She's dead. We cared about her. We tried to help. I'm sorry that's not
fucking good enough for soc.motss.
rpj
rich...@library.tmc.edu
<wils...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>Don't ever mention my name or my family again in your pathetic attempt
>to defend yourself, you horrible piece of shit.
Listen, dirtbag, I'll point out this absolutely egregious soc.motss
hypocrisy whenever and however I see fit to do so.
>What I did was about *me* and *my family*, posted to share what was
>going on in *my* life with people I knew (granted, with exceptions) to
>care about that life.
Which is exactly what *I* did, you complete and total shithead.
>It was not about a casual acquaintance posted for
>whatever fucked-up reasons you posted that awful story to people that
>you ought to know full well by-and-large (granted, with exceptions)
>don't give a rat's ass about what you post.
Yeah, I know. It's OK because we looooooooooove Timmy and it's awful,
awful, awful because we DON'T LIKE Richard.
Well TOO fucking bad, you overbearing moron.
I don't give a shit whether YOU like me.
I doin't give a shit whether Jess or Ellen or Beth or any other stupid
asshole hypocritical soc.motss dirtbag likes me.
Your hypocrisy has just reach an all time low.
rpj
Y
Tim Wilson
Ugh, you're disgustingly creepy.
macktherber
<3b02eece....@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>...
>She's dead. We cared about her. We tried to help. I'm sorry that's not
>fucking good enough for soc.motss.
I thought your original post was well written and perfectly appropriate to
this context. You were wise to not post names, making the post inherently
about your own reflections and concerns. And I see your concern.
The sudden death of a person in trouble, even one you aren't intimately
involved with, can be shattering.
Michael Thomas
rich...@library.tmc.edu writes:
> Which is exactly what *I* did, you complete and total shithead.
Oh, my. I doubt bets were even taken.
--
Michael Thomas (mi...@mtcc.com http://www.mtcc.com/~mike/)
Multi-mode fiber with an optical splitter |
B G P sessions conFIGGED not to litter | My Fav'rite 'Net Things
Reverting from A T M back to I P | by kc claffy, CAIDA
These are a few of my fav'rite `Net things |
David RL Gartner
<rich...@library.tmc.edu> wrote in message
news:3b02ada0...@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu...<snip>
> >I hope you feel truly rotten about your obnoxious public
speculation on
> >whether or not she died of an overdose or committed suicide.
>
> No, actually, I don't feel rotten about it at all. It was a
perfectly
> plausible explanation given the context in which everything
occurred.
>
> Oh, yeah:
>
> Fuck you, too.
me, too.
i understood what Richard was saying, Beth. why didn't you?
david
--
RANA ~44 http://www.bmeworld.com/myneedle
http://iam.bmezine.com/?DRLG
http://www.guystats.com/Flammable/
"Sorry I'm late, guys. I was manifesting posthumously
to fishermen." --Alex., soc.motss, 04/17/01
sprung = spring
Bill Lindemann
> In article <3b02aedc...@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>,
> <rich...@library.tmc.edu> wrote:
> []
> >I don't think there's anything obnoxious or unusual about speculating
> >as to the cause of a friend's untimely death,
>
> Over coffee, in the kitchen? Human, if not exactly admirable. But on an
> international newsgroup, about someone you only bring up because it points
> to a drama in your life?
>
> Er, no.
Ellen, realistically the Usenet is both like and unlike both of
these. While the messages get worldwide distribution, the
phrasing, subject matter, tone, and bantering are frequently
(especially in *this* newsgroup) like one would find in a
private, in fact a cliquish kitchen-table kaffe klatch. So right
there you have an incredibly open, public visibility paired
with very personal comments. As if that weren't enough,
people also post things that would seem excessively
personal even in a private home conversation -- such as
URL's pointing to JPEG's showing they and their tats and
piercings in full nudity and high resolution.
Personally, I usually treat soc.motss as a cyber-kitchen and
try not to focus too much attention on the breadth of distribution.
-Bill
Bill Lindemann
Public figures are fair game, Tim. And when you publicly posted
these details about your family, that fragment of your life became
public too. You are seriously overreacting here.
-Bill
Bill Lindemann
Cat fight!! Cat fight!!
-Bill
Bill Lindemann
> Richard Jasper:
>
> >Tim Wilson used this international newsgroup to discuss at
> >length his mother's illness and subsequent demise and no one
> >told him it was inappropriate.
>
> >Kevin Michael Vail used this international newsgroup to
> >discuss the painful detail of his other father's death and
> >no one told him it was inappropriate.
>
> >No one suggested that either Tim or Kevin were bringing up
> >these deaths just so that they could point to some drama in
> >their lives.
>
> What I think would profit you greatly is to study those two
> cases (I can send you the texts, if need be) in detail and to
> figure out how those accounts differed from the case of your
> report about your neighbor.
>
> By that, I mean work on it until you *do* see why a number of
> people might easily have their accounts moving and illuminating
> about both their personal situations and the general human
> condition and at the same time without inconsistency have found
> yours distasteful in various ways.
>
> The time you spend doing such an exercise might serve you well
> in the future. The time spent trying after the fact to justify
> yourself, most of all to fantasize that you're being unfairly
> persecuted, is *for sure* wasted energy.
I happen to like underdogs. And I happen to think Tim is
right in this matter.
-Bill
Bill Lindemann
I concur heartily. These soc.motss bitches can go way off
the deep end when they scent blood (he said, mixing his
metaphors).
-Bill
Ellen Evans
>
>>In article <3b02aedc...@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>,
>> <rich...@library.tmc.edu> wrote:
>>[]
>>>I don't think there's anything obnoxious or unusual about speculating
>>>as to the cause of a friend's untimely death,
>>
>>Over coffee, in the kitchen? Human, if not exactly admirable. But on an
>>international newsgroup, about someone you only bring up because it points
>>to a drama in your life?
>
>>Er, no.
>
>Tim Wilson used this international newsgroup to discuss at length his
>mother's illness and subsequent demise and no one told him it was
>inappropriate.
>
>Kevin Michael Vail used this international newsgroup to discuss the
>painful detail of his other father's death and no one told him it was
>inappropriate.
>
>No one suggested that either Tim or Kevin were bringing up these
>deaths just so that they could point to some drama in their lives.
Okay, try to see the difference: Tim and Kevin are posting about
*parents*, topics of deep (and universally recognized) personal interest
to them. Tim, I know, had been posting about his mother and her state of
health for some time.
You, on the other hand, posted about a neighbor whom you knew casually,
and whose *only* reason for showing up here was to be object of your
rather lurid speculation.
These are different things.
Ellen Evans
<rich...@library.tmc.edu> wrote:
[]
>I've been told point blank that posting about the death of a friend is
>blatant Me!Me!Me! ism.
See if you can tell the difference: A.You post about a friend, who you may
have even posted about before, because in her death you found something
significant to your life (or even life in general) and you wished to
share. B. You post about someone we don't know, and you, by your own
admission, don't know very well, because speculating on the possibly lurid
cause of her death is something you find titillating.
Dennis Lewis
wrote:
>
>I concur heartily. These soc.motss bitches can go way off
>the deep end when they scent blood (he said, mixing his
>metaphors).
I was able to read Richard's original post only through the kindness
of groups.google.com (it wasn't pulled in by Outlook Express off the
corporate server nor by FreeAgent tonight at home). I thought it had a
Sunday magazine feature quality. And please don't interpret that as a
criticism of Richard. I saw it simply as a vignette of reality -- one
of many that pepper Usenet.
Since Mindspring/Earthlink's news server seems to be having problems
tonight, this may not even get distributed -- which may be just as
well, considering how heated the reaction has become.
David RL Gartner
Ellen Evans <je...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:9dv8tn$log$1...@panix3.panix.com...
how do you know what level of "personal interest" should be applied to
Richard and his neighbor?
> You, on the other hand, posted about a neighbor whom you knew
casually,
> and whose *only* reason for showing up here was to be object of your
> rather lurid speculation.
in your opinion.
david
David RL Gartner
> In article <3b02eece....@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>,
> <rich...@library.tmc.edu> wrote:
> []
> >I've been told point blank that posting about the death of a friend
is
> >blatant Me!Me!Me! ism.
>
> See if you can tell the difference: A.You post about a friend, who
you may
> have even posted about before, because in her death you found
something
> significant to your life (or even life in general) and you wished to
> share. B. You post about someone we don't know, and you, by your
own
> admission, don't know very well, because speculating on the possibly
lurid
> cause of her death is something you find titillating.
i didn't/don't know Tim's mother or Kevin's other father. never will.
i didn't know Richard's neighbor, either.
really, Ellen. i think you're overreacting.
david
David RL Gartner
David RL Gartner <sticknee...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:9dvb87$c6a$1...@slb4.atl.mindspring.net...
and, since we're talking about how movies relate to this situation,
i'll quote Cartman from _South Park Bigger, Longer & Uncut_. it's the
scene where he's in Mr. Mackie's office after asking Mr. Garrison how
he'd like sucking his (Cartman's) balls.
the quote is, "What's the big fucking deal, bitch?"
hth,
Dennis Lewis
wrote:
>
>While the messages get worldwide distribution, the
>phrasing, subject matter, tone, and bantering are frequently
>(especially in *this* newsgroup) like one would find in a
>private, in fact a cliquish kitchen-table kaffe klatch.
I'll confess, I do get some sort of strange rush in knowing that what
I write is getting global distribution. I fear the Usenet groups
resemble a series of small-town weeklies rather than a media
powerhouse, though. Many of our postings may resemble the "Social"
columns in the small-town weeklies of the pre-Vietnam era. ("Mr. and
Mrs. Ike Godsey were guests of the Baldwin sisters last Tuesday
evening. Mrs. Olivia Walton traveled to Greensboro on Thursday to
finalize arrangements for her daughter's upcoming wedding.")
And the reality of being "published internationally" is no doubt
suspect: Unless this group has a lot of lurkers, soc.motss headers are
only seen by a very tiny percentage of the total number of people
online (though soc.motss does have a significant European contingent,
probably higher than any other U.S.-based news group).
>Personally, I usually treat soc.motss as a cyber-kitchen and
>try not to focus too much attention on the breadth of distribution.
What I find morbidly fascinating is the amount of data going through
cyberspace that really isn't noticed. I'm probably one of the biggest
Internet addicts around, yet I only check the messages of *four*
text-based news groups on a daily basis. I'll admit, the marvel of
Usenet piggybacks on my fascination with UHF television in the 1960s
-- so many videostreams being broadcast to so few receivers. All that
programming being produced in the 1960s by the Channel 40s and Channel
14s being actually watched by -- who? What percentage of sets could
even pick up a decent UHF signal prior to cable?
B Slinker
> i understood what Richard was saying, Beth. why didn't you?
Oh, I understood it. I just found it creepy and pathetic.
In particular, in his initial post he didn't write about her as a friend
(and didn't use that word, if I recall correctly). He described her as his
neighbor, who had marital problems, financial problems, and health
problems (all of which he described in some detail). He wrote about how he
had avoided getting too close to her because he had no patience for it
after dealing with his alcoholic father. He wrote about how helpful his
partner was. Then he speculated on whether her death could have been
caused by something like suicide or an overdose (both of which are heavily
negatively stigmatized), but not that it could have been illness or
natural causes. He didn't really say anything nice about her, but he did
go into the details of how her ex would get the house.
Explain again the part where this was clearly about the death of a friend
and not about the appearance of drama in Richard's pathetic little life?
-Beth
--
Beth Linker Ann B. for President!
bli...@panix.com Burlingham/Burlingham in 2004!
http://www.panix.com/~blinker
David W. Fenton
<3b032cc8...@nntp.sprynet.com>:
>Many of our postings may resemble the "Social"
>columns in the small-town weeklies of the pre-Vietnam era. ("Mr.
>and Mrs. Ike Godsey were guests of the Baldwin sisters last
>Tuesday evening. Mrs. Olivia Walton traveled to Greensboro on
>Thursday to finalize arrangements for her daughter's upcoming
>wedding.")
At my request, my mother has stopped maintaining a subscription for
me to the local paper, but each time I'm at home, I sample it, and
see that there are still columns for all the small localities
("Chesterfield News," "Atwater News," etc.), and they all read just
like that: "Faye Nixon borrowed Nelson Fenton's big garden tractor
on Friday afternoon, and completely plowed up her whole garden in
preparation for spring planting. . ."
Once while at Oberlin, I threw the paper in the trash can in the
Conservatory lounge (where all the singers went to smoke on their
practice breaks), and later came back to find a group of people
reading out excerpts from it and laughing hysterically.
From then on, I always disposed of it in places where I knew it
couldn't be traced back to me.
--
David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc
jenner
<rich...@library.tmc.edu> wrote in message
news:3b02c86b....@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu...
> On 16 May 2001 18:46:57 GMT, eboh...@omsdev.com (Eric Bohlman) wrote:
>
> >rich...@library.tmc.edu wrote:
> >> On 16 May 2001 16:17:07 GMT, B Slinker <bli...@panix.com> wrote:
> >>>I hope you feel truly rotten about your obnoxious public speculation on
> >>>whether or not she died of an overdose or committed suicide.
> >
> >> No, actually, I don't feel rotten about it at all. It was a perfectly
> >> plausible explanation given the context in which everything occurred.
> >
> >If you were discovered dead in your bed, and the only information someone
> >had was that you were in a relationship with another man, guess what
> >perfectly plausible speculation most people would come up with? Four
> >letters, starts with 'A'.
>
> Yes, that would be perfectly plausible. And there's nothing wrong with
> such speculation, for that matter.
I fail to see why you see nothing wrong with such speculation.
Being plausible and being right are two different things, at least
to me.
> If you want to read judgmentalism into "was it an overdose?" that's
> your prerogative. But it's also something YOU are doing, not me.
Sometimes, just asking the question is enough.
--
-- jenner http://www.geocities.com/j5nn5r
Bill Lindemann
Well, I saw Richard's original post just fine, and as you will
note from the "Organization" field I am also a MindSpring
customer. However, my specific server is nntp.ix.netcom.com,
a throwback to my original Netcom ISP which was swallowed
up by MindSpring (which was then swallowed by the even
larger fish, EarthLink). That information may or may not be
useful to you. Hope it helps.
-Bill
Jess Anderson
Richard Jasper:
>Jess Anderson:
>>[...]
>You're perfectly willing to condone behavior from someone you
>like and perfectly willing to dump heaping mounds of kaka over
>someone you don't.
Grow up, Richard. I've never met you nor even seen you. I have
no personal relationship of any kind with you. I neither like
nor dislike you. I merely respond here to what you write here.
That you evaluate such rejoinders in the coin of positive or
negative affect about you personally is infantile.
Furthermore, there is no necessary connection between liking
someone and condoning their behaviors. I like several people
whose behaviors here occasionaly distress or annoy me. I know
first-hand that several people here would say exactly the same
of me, because they have so said.
--
[] When a man's education is finished, he is finished.
[] -- E.A. Filene
[] ande...@facstaff.wisc.edu <http://www.jessanderson.org/> []
[] Copyright 2001 Jess Anderson madison.wi.us []
Charlie Fulton
[]
Oh, dear.
Well, I haven't even *begun* reading this thread yet, but all
I can say is:
Read his whole article imagining the way I imagine Richard's voice, as
Satan in "South Park," and you won't be able to stop laughing.
--
Charlie Fulton--foultone@mtcc.com--http://www.mtcc.com/~foultone/
"You wouldn't recognize your own reflection in a mirror."
Steven Levine
Brad Macdonald
> In particular, in his initial post he didn't write about her as a friend
> (and didn't use that word, if I recall correctly). He described her as his
> neighbor, who had marital problems, financial problems, and health
> problems (all of which he described in some detail). He wrote about how he
> had avoided getting too close to her because he had no patience for it
> after dealing with his alcoholic father. He wrote about how helpful his
> partner was. Then he speculated on whether her death could have been
> caused by something like suicide or an overdose (both of which are heavily
> negatively stigmatized), but not that it could have been illness or
> natural causes. He didn't really say anything nice about her, but he did
> go into the details of how her ex would get the house.
>
> Explain again the part where this was clearly about the death of a friend
> and not about the appearance of drama in Richard's pathetic little life?
Theme party, anyone?
Brad
Ellen Evans
David RL Gartner <sticknee...@mindspring.com> wrote:
[]
>how do you know what level of "personal interest" should be applied to
>Richard and his neighbor?
The only thing I have to go on is the nature of the posts in question.
On the one hand, people writing about profound events in their lives
personally and sensitively and in a way that connected their lives with
the lives of us all, _nostra vita_ and all that, and, on the other,
Richard, who regaled us with a story whose significance to him was, *on
the basis of the post in question,* that she offered a juicy,
tabloid-esque story.
Ellen Evans
Dennis Lewis <d...@sprynet.com> wrote:
[]
>And the reality of being "published internationally" is no doubt
>suspect: Unless this group has a lot of lurkers,
That has often been asserted.
>soc.motss headers are
>only seen by a very tiny percentage of the total number of people
>online(though soc.motss does have a significant European contingent,
>probably higher than any other U.S.-based news group).
It's not "U.S. based".
Jess Anderson
Paul Wallich:
>Acute peritonitis with colonic rupture in someone who was just
>hospitalized for GI problems is not "natural death" any more
>than exsanguination in someone who was just stabbed.
I was curious, in reading this diagnosis, that it wasn't the
other way round: acute peritonitis resulting from colonic
rupture. Wouldn't that be the normal order of events?
As an aside, I love words like "exsanguination".
--
[] He that will not sail until all dangers are over, will
[] never put to sea.
[] -- Thomas Fuller
Mike McKinley
> Furthermore, there is no necessary connection between liking
> someone and condoning their behaviors. I like several people
> whose behaviors here occasionaly distress or annoy me. I know
> first-hand that several people here would say exactly the same
> of me, because they have so said.
I think that anyone worth knowing is worth getting pissed off
at.
(Too many ending prepositions?)
--
*************************************
There's real work for real heroes to be done right now.
Michael Thomas
Paul Wallich
>Paul Wallich:
>
>>Acute peritonitis with colonic rupture in someone who was just
>>hospitalized for GI problems is not "natural death" any more
>>than exsanguination in someone who was just stabbed.
>
>I was curious, in reading this diagnosis, that it wasn't the
>other way round: acute peritonitis resulting from colonic
>rupture. Wouldn't that be the normal order of events?
From the fragment posted, there's little way to tell,
especially since writers of death certificates are not nearly
always the most precise reporters in the world. "With" could
mean that the peritonitis led to bad things happening from
the outside of the colon, or that the same process affected
both the peritoneum and the colon, or it could mean that
in the absence of a solid hospital record the attending
physician wasn't about to commit to a detailed course of
events. (personal interest disclaimer: my father died when
a doctor who didn't give a shit about patients in stuporous
states pushed the broken end of a feeding tube through his
stomach wall, and death certificate said diddly about that.)
>As an aside, I love words like "exsanguination".
So do I, although it skeeves me out a little the way that
the beauty of the word masks the messiness of the event
paul
Michael Thomas
> Paul Wallich:
>
> >Acute peritonitis with colonic rupture in someone who was just
> >hospitalized for GI problems is not "natural death" any more
> >than exsanguination in someone who was just stabbed.
>
One of the great conundrums of my vocabulary is
that I really like the sound of "sanguine" with
the meaning "coolly disapproving". I don't know
why; I have to remind myself often to not make
that mistake.
Were I only Scott Safier.
--
Michael Thomas (mi...@mtcc.com http://www.mtcc.com/~mike/)
Multi-mode fiber with an optical splitter |
B G P sessions conFIGGED not to litter | My Fav'rite 'Net Things
Reverting from A T M back to I P | by kc claffy, CAIDA
These are a few of my fav'rite `Net things |
Clay Colwell
> Theme party, anyone?
We supply the coffins, you bring your favorite hunky EMT.
Mike McKinley
> Michael Thomas:
> >Were I only Scott Safier.
> Congratulations! Your wish has been granted. You may now (oops,
> too late) pontificate on a wide variety of topics, misspelling
> and piffling at your lie^H^Heisure. And welcome back, Scott;
> Mike McKinley will swoon over your glasses case in due course,
> no doubt.
Compare to a hot, bulging sunglasses case, all of this is
basest dross.
Clay Colwell
> Tim Wilson wrote:
>> Don't ever mention my name or my family again in your pathetic attempt
>> to defend yourself, you horrible piece of shit.
> Public figures are fair game, Tim. And when you publicly posted
> these details about your family, that fragment of your life became
> public too. You are seriously overreacting here.
Tim believes, and I concur, that the comparison Richard attempted
to draw between their two experiences is tenuous at the very best
and justification-grabbing under worse circumstances.
Harsh language? Yes. Overreaction? I don't think so.
Mike McKinley
> Mike McKinley (mp...@mail.utexas.edu) wrote:
> : Compare to a hot, bulging sunglasses case, all of this is
> : basest dross.
> Shall I compare thee to a hot, bulging sunglasses case?
Shall I compare thee to Scott's glasses' case?
Thou art more studly and less disputive.
Fair bulges drive the wuffie dudes' embrace,
And make me spooge with founts superlative.
If you want more, send me five dollars. Sonnets R Us.
Mike McKinley
> Mike McKinley (mp...@mail.utexas.edu) wrote:
> : Shall I compare thee to Scott's glasses' case?
> : Thou art more studly and less disputive.
> : Fair bulges drive the wuffie dudes' embrace,
> : And make me spooge with founts superlative.
> : If you want more, send me five dollars. Sonnets R Us.
> What are your licensing terms? Can I make archive
> copies on CDR?
My agent is Pearl B. Forswine. Call her.
Clay Colwell
> Michael Thomas:
>>Were I only Scott Safier.
> Congratulations! Your wish has been granted. You may now (oops,
> too late) pontificate on a wide variety of topics, misspelling
> and piffling at your lie^H^Heisure. And welcome back, Scott;
> Mike McKinley will swoon over your glasses case in due course,
> no doubt.
But will he tolerate the blond highlights?
Clay Colwell
DRS
[...]
> >soc.motss headers are
> >only seen by a very tiny percentage of the total number of people
> >online(though soc.motss does have a significant European contingent,
> >probably higher than any other U.S.-based news group).
>
> It's not "U.S. based".
For all practical purposes it is.
--
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
Jess Anderson
Mike Thomas:
>Jess Anderson:
>>Paul Wallich:
>>>Acute peritonitis with colonic rupture in someone who was just
>>>hospitalized for GI problems is not "natural death" any more
>>>than exsanguination in someone who was just stabbed.
>>As an aside, I love words like "exsanguination".
>One of the great conundrums of my vocabulary is that I really
>like the sound of "sanguine" with the meaning "coolly
>disapproving". I don't know why; I have to remind myself often
>to not make that mistake.
I'm not having much luck conjuring which word you're getting
crossed up with here. The sense of sanguine as brave or
hopeful, or as ruddy, wouldn't seem to be it. Maybe the hook is
one of the other humors, choleric, but that seems a stretch
too.
Whatever, I thought of you while driving home from the grocery
this morning. I was behind a car like yours (assuming you do
still have it) that had a Wisconsin license tag 4DXPLDR.
--
[] Just trust yourself, then you will know how to live.
[] -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, 1749-1832
DRS
news:9e1g4k$an8$1...@news.doit.wisc.edu...
[...]
> But I think the whole concept "<name of country)-based" in the
> context of computer networks or the uses of them is more
> misleading than useful.
This group is certainly US-centric, hardly surprising for any group in which
the majority of participants are Americans in America. Seizing on a
pedantic adherence to a given word doesn't change the fact that even though
we all know Usenet isn't <somewhere>-*based*, as I said, in this instance,
for all practical purposes it might as well be. You might not think of it
as such but I bet a straw poll of our non-US posters would probably agree it
Mike McKinley
Have I mentioned to you that in the last several years, *all* of my
boyfriends have had foreskins? Fabulous!
Mike McKinley
Darling, I've heard that is something that you
*used* to be.
Michael Thomas
> Mike Thomas:
> >One of the great conundrums of my vocabulary is that I really
> >like the sound of "sanguine" with the meaning "coolly
> >disapproving". I don't know why; I have to remind myself often
> >to not make that mistake.
>
> I'm not having much luck conjuring which word you're getting
> crossed up with here. The sense of sanguine as brave or
> hopeful, or as ruddy, wouldn't seem to be it. Maybe the hook is
> one of the other humors, choleric, but that seems a stretch
> too.
Actually, I suspect it was that I initially
thought I knew what it meant, and found out
quite a bit later that I was wrong. Unlike Scott
Dumpty, I haven't copped an attitude about it
though. I also mispronounced heinous (hEnEous)
for a long time too, because I'd never heard it
spoken. I only pronounce cretin (cr&tin) the
same way because it drives Charlie crazy.
> Whatever, I thought of you while driving home from the grocery
> this morning. I was behind a car like yours (assuming you do
> still have it) that had a Wisconsin license tag 4DXPLDR.
The original (as if, I'll bet) slam of Exploder
was against TI Explorers -- at least that's what
I heard them called at the MIT labs over by
Kendall Square.
ObMotss: I managed to work in "turd in a punch
bowl" in some email at work. Don't try
this without supervision, kids.
Arnold Zwicky
<ande...@facstaff.wisc.edu> puzzles:
>Mike Thomas:
>>...One of the great conundrums of my vocabulary is that I really
>>like the sound of "sanguine" with the meaning "coolly
>>disapproving". I don't know why; I have to remind myself often
>>to not make that mistake.
>I'm not having much luck conjuring which word you're getting
>crossed up with here. The sense of sanguine as brave or
>hopeful, or as ruddy, wouldn't seem to be it...
"sang-froid", maybe? admittedly, that doesn't have the disapproving
part, but it does have the cool part.
w m
Robert S. Coren
Michael Thomas <mi...@mtcc.com> wrote:
>ande...@facstaff.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>> Mike Thomas:
>> >One of the great conundrums of my vocabulary is that I really
>> >like the sound of "sanguine" with the meaning "coolly
>> >disapproving". I don't know why; I have to remind myself often
>> >to not make that mistake.
>>
>> I'm not having much luck conjuring which word you're getting
>> crossed up with here. The sense of sanguine as brave or
>> hopeful, or as ruddy, wouldn't seem to be it. Maybe the hook is
>> one of the other humors, choleric, but that seems a stretch
>> too.
"Saturnine", perhaps?
>
> Actually, I suspect it was that I initially
> thought I knew what it meant, and found out
> quite a bit later that I was wrong. Unlike Scott
> Dumpty, I haven't copped an attitude about it
> though. I also mispronounced heinous (hEnEous)
> for a long time too, because I'd never heard it
> spoken.
For years, I pronounced "harbinger" to rhyme with "singer".
--
---Robert Coren (co...@spdcc.com)--(or try net instead of com)-------
"[T]he new Bibliothèque Nationale...seems to have been designed by a
committee made up of Michel Foucault, Jacques Tati, and the
production designer of _The Man from U.N.C.L.E._" --Adam Gopnik
DRS
news:3B0456C5...@mail.utexas.edu...
> DRS wrote:
>
> > "Jess Anderson" <ande...@facstaff.wisc.edu> wrote in message
> > news:9e1g4k$an8$1...@news.doit.wisc.edu...
> > [...]
> > > But I think the whole concept "<name of country)-based" in the
> > > context of computer networks or the uses of them is more
> > > misleading than useful.
> > This group is certainly US-centric, hardly surprising for any group in
which
> > the majority of participants are Americans in America. Seizing on a
> > pedantic adherence to a given word doesn't change the fact that even
though
> > we all know Usenet isn't <somewhere>-*based*, as I said, in this
instance,
> > for all practical purposes it might as well be. You might not think of
it
> > as such but I bet a straw poll of our non-US posters would probably
agree it
> > is.
>
> Have I mentioned to you that in the last several years, *all* of my
> boyfriends have had foreskins? Fabulous!
What are getting up me for?
Ellen Evans
Robert S. Coren <co...@spdcc.com> wrote:
[]
>For years, I pronounced "harbinger" to rhyme with "singer".
I have a friend who pronounced misled as if it were the past tense of
"to misle."
Michael Palmer
(Arnold Zwicky) wrote:
"Sardonic" certainly has the disapproving part, and it's positively
ice cold.
Charlie Fulton
: Michael Thomas <mi...@mtcc.com> wrote:
:>ande...@facstaff.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
:>> Mike Thomas:
:>> >One of the great conundrums of my vocabulary is that I really
:>> >like the sound of "sanguine" with the meaning "coolly
:>> >disapproving". I don't know why; I have to remind myself often
:>> >to not make that mistake.
:>>
:>> I'm not having much luck conjuring which word you're getting
:>> crossed up with here. The sense of sanguine as brave or
:>> hopeful, or as ruddy, wouldn't seem to be it. Maybe the hook is
:>> one of the other humors, choleric, but that seems a stretch
:>> too.
: "Saturnine", perhaps?
:>
:> Actually, I suspect it was that I initially
:> thought I knew what it meant, and found out
:> quite a bit later that I was wrong. Unlike Scott
:> Dumpty, I haven't copped an attitude about it
:> though. I also mispronounced heinous (hEnEous)
:> for a long time too, because I'd never heard it
:> spoken.
: For years, I pronounced "harbinger" to rhyme with "singer".
I mispronounced "internecine" for years, and still find it difficult
to even say correctly. My tongue just *wants* to say it my may
(in-TERR-ne-seen)
--
Charlie Fulton--foultone@mtcc.com--http://www.mtcc.com/~foultone/
"You wouldn't recognize your own reflection in a mirror."
Steven Levine
David W. Fenton
<3B0456C5...@mail.utexas.edu>:
>DRS wrote:
>
>> "Jess Anderson" <ande...@facstaff.wisc.edu> wrote in message
>> news:9e1g4k$an8$1...@news.doit.wisc.edu...
>> [...]
>> > But I think the whole concept "<name of country)-based" in the
>> > context of computer networks or the uses of them is more
>> > misleading than useful.
>> This group is certainly US-centric, hardly surprising for any
>> group in which the majority of participants are Americans in
>> America. Seizing on a pedantic adherence to a given word
>> doesn't change the fact that even though we all know Usenet
>> isn't <somewhere>-*based*, as I said, in this instance, for all
>> practical purposes it might as well be. You might not think of
>> it as such but I bet a straw poll of our non-US posters would
>> probably agree it is.
>
> Have I mentioned to you that in the last several years, *all*
> of my
>boyfriends have had foreskins? Fabulous!
Whose foreskins were they?
--
David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc
David W. Fenton
>Jess Anderson wrote:
>
>> Furthermore, there is no necessary connection between liking
>> someone and condoning their behaviors. I like several people
>> whose behaviors here occasionaly distress or annoy me. I know
>> first-hand that several people here would say exactly the same
>> of me, because they have so said.
>
> I think that anyone worth knowing is worth getting pissed off
>at.
> (Too many ending prepositions?)
I've always worded the sentiment as: Anyone worth knowing is a
chore to know.
Will Parsons
> I'll have to remember that. "Was it an overdose?" is
> my standard response to "My grandmother died."
When a friend's father died he faced a number of people
who came up to him at the funeral and said something along
the lines of "I'm so sorry your father died." He responded by
saying "Don't let it happen again."
He was not in the best state of mind.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Will Parsons
http://www.geocities.com/parsonswont
"...I think I'm still allowed to flirt with the
Internet despite my impending domestication." -Beth Linker
Will Parsons
> Richard Jasper:
> >Jess Anderson:
>
> >>[...]
>
> >You're perfectly willing to condone behavior from someone you
> >like and perfectly willing to dump heaping mounds of kaka over
> >someone you don't.
>
> Grow up, Richard.
Really! "Kaka"?
Christian Hansen
wrote:
>DRS wrote:
>
>> "Jess Anderson" <ande...@facstaff.wisc.edu> wrote in message
>> news:9e1g4k$an8$1...@news.doit.wisc.edu...
>> [...]
>> > But I think the whole concept "<name of country)-based" in the
>> > context of computer networks or the uses of them is more
>> > misleading than useful.
>> This group is certainly US-centric, hardly surprising for any group in which
>> the majority of participants are Americans in America. Seizing on a
>> pedantic adherence to a given word doesn't change the fact that even though
>> we all know Usenet isn't <somewhere>-*based*, as I said, in this instance,
>> for all practical purposes it might as well be. You might not think of it
>> as such but I bet a straw poll of our non-US posters would probably agree it
>> is.
> Have I mentioned to you that in the last several years, *all* of my
>boyfriends have had foreskins? Fabulous!
All of _MY_ boyfriends, from the beginning to now, have also had foreskins.
Chris "Of course, some of them had had them only for a few days..." Hansen
--
Chris Hansen | chris at hansenhome dot demon dot co dot uk
http://www.hansenhome.demon.co.uk
"Read not, lest ye be read."
Mike McKinley
Kathryn L. Schmitz
Charlie Fulton <foul...@fasolt.mtcc.com> wrote:
>Robert S. Coren <co...@spdcc.com> wrote:
>: In article <v7d7978...@fasolt.mtcc.com>,
>: Michael Thomas <mi...@mtcc.com> wrote:
>:>
>:> thought I knew what it meant, and found out
>:> quite a bit later that I was wrong. Unlike Scott
>:> Dumpty, I haven't copped an attitude about it
>:> though. I also mispronounced heinous (hEnEous)
>:> for a long time too, because I'd never heard it
>:> spoken.
>
>: For years, I pronounced "harbinger" to rhyme with "singer".
>
>I mispronounced "internecine" for years, and still find it difficult
>to even say correctly. My tongue just *wants* to say it my may
>(in-TERR-ne-seen)
On a drive from Maryland to Cape Cod with my then
teenaged sister (I was out of college), I mispronounced
"vehicle" as (vuHEEcle) and sent her into screaming
paroxysms of laughter that returned several times
in the remaining hours of that drive. We have fond
memories of the New Jersey Turnpike as a result.
Katie, who hasn't repeated that mistake since, but
feels no shame about mispronouncing stuff since she
reads many many words she never sees anyone say
Jess Anderson
Ellen Evans:
>Robert Coren:
>>Mike Thomas:
>>>I also mispronounced heinous (hEnEous) for a long time too,
>>>because I'd never heard it spoken.
>>For years, I pronounced "harbinger" to rhyme with "singer".
These things are so complicated. Do you mean sight-rhyme
[HAR-bing-ur] or sound-rhyme [har-BING-ur]? Also, there *is*
a sight-rhyme with "singer" (one who singes). :-)
>I have a friend who pronounced misled as if it were the past
>tense of "to misle."
That reminds me: it was in this newsgroup that I finally
learned to spell "missile" correctly instead of writing
"missle".
When I was a kid, two words I often heard spoken on news radio
were "communique" and "epitome". I had also saw these words in
news magazines, but without connecting what I read with what
I'd heard, so until I was about 10 I mispronounced them as
[kahm-you-NEEK] and [EP-ee-TOME]. One day I just went "Ooohhhh,
*that's* how [kuh-MYU-nuh-kay] is spelled", and similarly for
[ee-PIT-uh-mee].
One result is that [EP-uh-goan] for "epigone" (a word I learned
much later) still feels weird, even though [ee-PIG-uh-nee]
would sound absurd.
Finally, it was also in soc.motss (thanks to Robert Coren or to
Mara Chibnik, I think) that I finally learned to spell "harass"
correctly instead of doubling the 'r', which I was doing
because in my idiolect it rhymes with "embarrass".
English is hard, let's go pick up tricks (I'm quite bored with
all that shopping).
--
[] Great deeds are usually wrought at great risks.
[] -- Herodotus
I suppose one could get a few giggles from intentionally
mispronouncing things, as in [hair-uh-DOAT-us] or
[HEE-ro-DOT-us].
Never mind how hard English is, Greek is *much* harder.
Jess Anderson
Katie Schmitz:
>Charlie Fulton:
>>I mispronounced "internecine" for years, and still find it
>>difficult to even say correctly. My tongue just *wants* to say
>>it my may (in-TERR-ne-seen)
My, May, you put that a funny way.
Though I feel no discomfort saying "internecine" correctly, it
seems to me, given "interstices" [in-TUR-stuh-sees], perfectly
logical to say [in-TURN-uh-seen] or [in-TURN-uh-sign].
As with "exsanguinate", I like "interstitial" simply for the
sound of it.
>On a drive from Maryland to Cape Cod with my then teenaged
>sister (I was out of college), I mispronounced "vehicle" as
>(vuHEEcle) and sent her into screaming paroxysms of laughter
>that returned several times in the remaining hours of that
>drive. We have fond memories of the New Jersey Turnpike as a
>result.
I'd count the last a *major* achievement!
While checking a dictionary for something, I often can't resist
checking out passing headwords I don't recognize. One such this
morning was "diketone", which at first glance I parsed as two
syllables and thought "oh my, they misspelled it".
Fuguing further, I speculated on what "dyketone" might mean:
having a firm butch body (hi Mary), gaydar for lesbians
("there's a sound in my head saying *she's* family"), what?
It wasn't until I read the definition that I realized it's
three syllables, a chemical term: di-ketone.
At least I didn't parse it as [DIK-tuh-nee], in which case it
might refer to someone I'd want to meet.
--
[] Lose as if you like it; win as if you were used to it.
[] -- Tommy Hitchcock
Clay Colwell
> Clay Colwell wrote:
>> Mike McKinley <mp...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
>> > wuffie
>> "wuffie"?!
> Darling, I've heard that is something that you
> *used* to be.
I still don't know what "wuffie" is. Is that a vampire
slayer without her teeth?
Clay Colwell
> Michael Thomas <mi...@mtcc.com> wrote:
>>ande...@facstaff.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>>> Mike Thomas:
>>> >One of the great conundrums of my vocabulary is that I really
>>> >like the sound of "sanguine" with the meaning "coolly
>>> >disapproving". I don't know why; I have to remind myself often
>>> >to not make that mistake.
>>>
>>> I'm not having much luck conjuring which word you're getting
>>> crossed up with here. The sense of sanguine as brave or
>>> hopeful, or as ruddy, wouldn't seem to be it. Maybe the hook is
>>> one of the other humors, choleric, but that seems a stretch
>>> too.
> "Saturnine", perhaps?
Don't think so. "Phlegmatic" keeps the coolness, but doesn't
connote disapproval, either.
Perhaps Mikey's compressing "sneering" and "languid".
>> Actually, I suspect it was that I initially
>> thought I knew what it meant, and found out
>> quite a bit later that I was wrong. Unlike Scott
>> Dumpty, I haven't copped an attitude about it
>> though. I also mispronounced heinous (hEnEous)
>> for a long time too, because I'd never heard it
>> spoken.
> For years, I pronounced "harbinger" to rhyme with "singer".
"crudite" for me. "soupcon", too.
Clay Colwell
A synonym of "saturnine", but it connotes a gleeful evilness
to me.
Tim Wilson
>
> Mike McKinley <mp...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
> > Clay Colwell wrote:
>
> >> Mike McKinley <mp...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
> >> > wuffie
> >> "wuffie"?!
>
> > Darling, I've heard that is something that you
> > *used* to be.
>
> I still don't know what "wuffie" is. Is that a vampire
> slayer without her teeth?
"wuffie" = "woofie", I think.
Mike McKinley
> Clay Colwell wrote:
> > Mike McKinley <mp...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
> > > Clay Colwell wrote:
> > >> Mike McKinley <mp...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
> > >> > wuffie
> > >> "wuffie"?!
> > > Darling, I've heard that is something that you
> > > *used* to be.
> > I still don't know what "wuffie" is. Is that a vampire
> > slayer without her teeth?
> "wuffie" = "woofie", I think.
Wuff!
Clay Colwell
> Clay Colwell wrote:
>>
>> Mike McKinley <mp...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
>> > Clay Colwell wrote:
>>
>> >> Mike McKinley <mp...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
>> >> > wuffie
>> >> "wuffie"?!
>>
>> > Darling, I've heard that is something that you
>> > *used* to be.
>>
>> I still don't know what "wuffie" is. Is that a vampire
>> slayer without her teeth?
> "wuffie" = "woofie", I think.
Oh. That's very different.
Perhaps MikeM had meant "woofer", which I still am,
being the UberPup.
Ken Rudolph
I'm not sure why nobody has come up with "disdain", which is the mot
propre for cool disapproval.
As for "sanguine", I'm still a little perplexed by the way a word can
contain connotations of both bloody and optimistic. The latter usage
is the one that it took some time to get accustomed to. At one time
I gave it the exact opposite meaning in my head.
--Ken Rudolph
Ken Rudolph
> As for "sanguine", I'm still a little perplexed by the way a word can
> contain connotations of both bloody and optimistic. The latter usage
> is the one that it took some time to get accustomed to. At one time
> I gave it the exact opposite meaning in my head.
Actually, after I sent this, I realized that the false meaning of
"sanguine" that I had had in my head for years was "healthy". Now
where did I get that one?
--Ken Rudolph
Mike McKinley
(I love people who respond to themselves!)
It all goes back to the Medieval Humor that Mikey put me in.
The Grail! The Grail!
Mike McKinley
The backstage gossip is that you're not aging well...
Ellen Evans
Ken Rudolph <ke...@mediaone.net> wrote:
[]
>As for "sanguine", I'm still a little perplexed by the way a word can
>contain connotations of both bloody and optimistic.
From dictionary.com
Word History: Perhaps one has wondered what the connection between
sanguinary, “bloodthirsty,” and sanguine“cheerfully optimistic,” could be.
The connection can be found in medieval physiology with its notion of the four humors (blood, bile, phlegm, and black bile). These four body fluids were thought to determine a person's temperament, or distinguishing mental and physical characteristics. Thus, if blood was the predominant humor, one had a ruddy face and a disposition marked by courage, hope, and a readiness to fall in love. Such a temperament was called sanguine, the Middle English ancestor of our word sanguine. The sources of the Middle English word were Old French sanguin and Latin sanguineus, the source of the French word. Both the Old French and Latin words meant “bloody,” “blood-colored,” Old French sanguin having th>Clay Colwell wrote:
>>
>> Michael Palmer <mpa...@panix.com> wrote:
>> > On 17 May 2001 22:44:48 GMT, in soc.motss, zwi...@Turing.Stanford.EDU
>> > (Arnold Zwicky) wrote:
>>
>> >>in article <9e1f5c$rs6$1...@news.doit.wisc.edu>, jess anderson
>> >><ande...@facstaff.wisc.edu> puzzles:
>> >>
>> >> >Mike Thomas:
>> >>
>> >> >>...One of the great conundrums of my vocabulary is that I really
>> >> >>like the sound of "sanguine" with the meaning "coolly
>> >> >>disapproving". I don't know why; I have to remind myself often
>> >> >>to not make that mistake.
>> >>
>> >> >I'm not having much luck conjuring which word you're getting
>> >> >crossed up with here. The sense of sanguine as brave or
>> >> >hopeful, or as ruddy, wouldn't seem to be it...
>> >>
>> >>"sang-froid", maybe? admittedly, that doesn't have the disapproving
>> >>part, but it does have the cool part.
>>
>> > "Sardonic" certainly has the disapproving part, and it's positively
>> > ice cold.
>>
>> A synonym of "saturnine", but it connotes a gleeful evilness
>> to me.
>
>I'm not sure why nobody has come up with "disdain", which is the mot
>propre for cool disapproval.
>
From dictionary.com:
===================
Word History: Perhaps one has wondered what the connection between
sanguinary, “bloodthirsty,” and sanguin “cheerfully optimistic,” coue.
The connection can be found in medieval physiology with its notion of the
four humors (blood, bile, phlegm, and black bile). These four body fluids
were thought to determine a person's temperament, or distinguishing mental
and physical characteristics. Thus, if blood was the predominant humor,
one had a ruddy face and a disposition marked by courage, hope, and a
readiness to fall in love. Such a temperament was called sanguine, the
Middle English ancestor of our word sanguine. The sources of the Middle
English word were Old French sanguin and Latin sanguineus, the source of
the French word.
Both the Old French and Latin words meant “bloody,” “blood-colored,” Old
French sanguin having the sense “sanguine in temperament” as well.
Latisanguineus in turn was derived from sangus, “blood,” just
English sanguinary is. The English adjective sanguine, first recorded in
Middle English before 1350, went on to refer simply to the cheerfulness
and optimism that accompanied a sanguine temperament, no longer having any
direct reference to medieval physiology.
===========================
Ellen Evans
In article <9e3mds$76o$1...@panix6.panix.com>, Ellen Evans <je...@panix.com> wrote:
>In article <3B054B8E...@mediaone.net>,
>Ken Rudolph <ke...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>[]
>>As for "sanguine", I'm still a little perplexed by the way a word can
>>contain connotations of both bloody and optimistic.
>From dictionary.com:
>
>===================
>
>Word History: Perhaps one has wondered what the connection between
>sanguinary, “bloodthirsty,” and sanguin “cheerfully optimistic,”ld be.
>
>The connection can be found in medieval physiology with its notion of the
>four humors (blood, bile, phlegm, and black bile). These four body fluids
>were thought to determine a person's temperament, or distinguishing mental
>and physical characteristics. Thus, if blood was the predominant humor,
>one had a ruddy face and a disposition marked by courage, hope, and a
>readiness to fall in love. Such a temperament was called sanguine, the
>Middle English ancestor of our word sanguine. The sources of the Middle
>English word were Old French sanguin and Latin sanguineus, the source of
>the French word.
>
>Both the Old French and Latin words meant “bloody,” “blood-colored,” Old
>French sanguin having the sense “sanguine in temperament” as well.
>Latin sanguineus in turn was derived from sangus, “blood,” jusas
>English sanguinary is. The English adjective sanguine, first recorded in
>Middle English before 1350, went on to refer simply to the cheerfulness
>and optimism that accompanied a sanguine temperament, no longer having any
>direct reference to medieval physiology.
MeanMary
: As for "sanguine", I'm still a little perplexed by the way a word can
: contain connotations of both bloody and optimistic.
Really, even after your acquaintance with me?
MeanMary
--
Copyright 2001 Mary Ballard // I do not speak for Appalachian State U.
// ball...@spam.appstate.edu - remove *s* and *a* from spam to email me.
--
Do you like Pants? - Alan Kalter
Clay Colwell
> Clay Colwell wrote:
>> Tim Wilson <wils...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> > Clay Colwell wrote:
>> >> Mike McKinley <mp...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
>> >> > Clay Colwell wrote:
>> >> >> Mike McKinley <mp...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
>> >> >> > wuffie
>> >> >> "wuffie"?!
>> >> > Darling, I've heard that is something that you
>> >> > *used* to be.
>> >> I still don't know what "wuffie" is. Is that a vampire
>> >> slayer without her teeth?
>> > "wuffie" = "woofie", I think.
>> Oh. That's very different.
>> Perhaps MikeM had meant "woofer", which I still am,
>> being the UberPup.
> The backstage gossip is that you're not aging well...
Darling! That should come as no surprise, my being a spent
husk, to anyone who's been paying attention. Do be so good
as to up your consumption of gingko biloba, there's a dear.
Clay Colwell
> Ken Rudolph wrote:
>> Ken Rudolph wrote:
>> > As for "sanguine", I'm still a little perplexed by the way a word can
>> > contain connotations of both bloody and optimistic. The latter usage
>> > is the one that it took some time to get accustomed to. At one time
>> > I gave it the exact opposite meaning in my head.
>> Actually, after I sent this, I realized that the false meaning of
>> "sanguine" that I had had in my head for years was "healthy". Now
>> where did I get that one?
> (I love people who respond to themselves!)
> It all goes back to the Medieval Humor that Mikey put me in.
> The Grail! The Grail!
Darling! What about those nights you spent dishing the
dirt on Cain and Abel to the Garden Serpent?
Mike McKinley
> Darling! What about those nights you spent dishing the
> dirt on Cain and Abel to the Garden Serpent?
I'm gonna *kill* Jess for telling!
I was the one who started out hitting on Charon, discovered the
Underworld and created John Dorrance!
Scott Carpenter
<ch...@notrash.hansenhome.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>All of _MY_ boyfriends, from the beginning to now, have also had foreskins.
I've only ever seen one penis that had an intact foreskin - a guy I
lived with for about 6 years. It took a while to get used to, and I
couldn't honestly say that I've missed it since he moved out.
Jess Anderson
Mike Thomas:
>ObMotss: I managed to work in "turd in a punch bowl" in some
>email at work.
I can't for the life of me make the motss connection there,
other than the writer being one. But "went over like a" and
"about as welcome as a" are two of my favorite gross-out
expressions.
This calls to mind a true story [more grossness ahead, avert
your eyes if you have a weak stomach]:
As some of you know, the University of Wisconsin campus
stretches almost two miles alongside the largest of Madison's
four lakes, which is about 30 sq mi in extent. The Student
Union has a delightful outdoor terrace right on the shore and
the Union pier has long been the scene of summer frolics for
swimmers and sun-babies.
Forty years ago this summer various friends and I were among
the regular revelers (see
<http://www.jessanderson.org/img/jess_pier_61.jpg>)
a gaggle who spent all afternoon there, with quick trips into
the building for beers, food, and bathroom breaks.
These days Lake Mendota gets quite green with algae, but back
then its waters were crystal-clear and pristine, and at the end
of the fairly long pier where we gathered every day, the lake
was cool and about 12 feet deep. The swimming was really
quite wonderful.
On a day not unlike the one shown, bright and sunny and warm,
we all decided to go in, and were about to do just that when
about six feet out from the pier we spied a floating object,
drifting slowly along.
It was of astounding proportions in both length and girth,
considering what it was. It could only have come from a dog or
cat the size of a small horse or from a human with an
*incredibly* capacious nether throat. [1]
Even that long ago, when there were still cabins at the west
end of the lake, none were discharging raw sewage into the
lake, so it was mystery how this mini-zepplin of grossness got
to be where it was. Needless to say, no one went in the water
for at least a month after that.
--
[] There is one thing stronger than all the armies of the
[] world, and that is an idea whose time has come.
[] -- Victor Hugo, 1802-1885
[1] Regarding the infamous local cavernosities, Mike McKinley
was only 7 and I doubt had ever been this far north, and
John Dorrance wouldn't even be born for another 11 years,
so neither of them is a suspect.
Tim Wilson
>
> "...nether throat..."
Yow!
Mike McKinley
Nether rain, nor snow...
Robert S. Coren
Jess Anderson <ande...@facstaff.wisc.edu> wrote:
>
>Ellen Evans:
>>Robert Coren:
>>>Mike Thomas:
>
>>>>I also mispronounced heinous (hEnEous) for a long time too,
>>>>because I'd never heard it spoken.
>
>>>For years, I pronounced "harbinger" to rhyme with "singer".
>
>These things are so complicated. Do you mean sight-rhyme
>[HAR-bing-ur] or sound-rhyme [har-BING-ur]? Also, there *is*
>a sight-rhyme with "singer" (one who singes). :-)
I meant the first -- as if it meant one who bings hars.
>When I was a kid, two words I often heard spoken on news radio
>were "communique" and "epitome". I had also saw these words in
>news magazines
"Sawed", I think you meant.
>>English is hard, let's go pick up tricks
Hard English ones?
>I suppose one could get a few giggles from intentionally
>mispronouncing things, as in [hair-uh-DOAT-us] or
>[HEE-ro-DOT-us].
>
>Never mind how hard English is, Greek is *much* harder.
And guessing the accepted pronunciation of Greek names when speaking
English is harder still.
--
---Robert Coren (co...@spdcc.com)--(or try net instead of com)-------
"Yet another reason not to read Usenet."
--a soc.motss lurker, referring to me
Robert S. Coren
Jess Anderson <ande...@facstaff.wisc.edu> wrote:
>
>This calls to mind a true story [more grossness ahead, avert
>your eyes if you have a weak stomach]:
I have weak eyes; should I avert my stomach?
>Forty years ago this summer various friends and I were among
>the regular revelers (see
>
> <http://www.jessanderson.org/img/jess_pier_61.jpg>)
I'm guessing that that's you front and center (where else?).
--
---Robert Coren (co...@spdcc.com)--(or try net instead of com)-------
"If you're efficient, you can do an entire room in two minutes."
--Leith Chu
Robert S. Coren
>contain connotations of both bloody and optimistic. The latter usage
>is the one that it took some time to get accustomed to. At one time
>I gave it the exact opposite meaning in my head.
This puts me in mind of another puzzler, suggested both by the idea of
opposed meanings and by its having the same starting letters:
"sanction".
--
---Robert Coren (co...@spdcc.com)--(or try net instead of com)-------
"The 'Ring' can be read as the story of an aristocrat who grows bored
in a loveless marriage and builds a palace he cannot afford. He cuts
corners, and the world ends." -- Alex Ross in _The New Yorker_ of 8/10/98
DRS
news:3B057F1F...@bellsouth.net...
> Jess Anderson wrote:
> >
> > "...nether throat..."
>
> Yow!
Does it have an uvula?
--
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
Jess Anderson
Robert Coren:
>Jess Anderson:
>>This calls to mind a true story [more grossness ahead, avert
>>your eyes if you have a weak stomach]:
>I have weak eyes; should I avert my stomach?
Better than everting it, I'm sure.
>>Forty years ago this summer various friends and I were among
>>the regular revelers (see
>>
>> <http://www.jessanderson.org/img/jess_pier_61.jpg>)
>I'm guessing that that's you front and center (where else?).
Well, there is that, of course. Oui, c'est moi.
But the real reason I'm in that postion is right behind me, an
amazing 16-y/o straight boy named, most appropriately, Peter. I
thought he was quite dazzling, and he was so quick and hip. No
idea what became of him. Peter was the one who got us all
talking opop lopanguopage the following year.
Behind him, leftmost, my then boyfriend, Tom Wirth (we called
him Monies), 22. He grew a beard later, in which guise he was a
ringer for Claude Debussy. Alas, the plague took him in the
early 80s. We had long been out of touch, though.
The woman was an excellent painter and printmaker named Lila
Lewis. She married some guy and moved to the wilds of northern
Ontario, never to be seen again by any of us.
In the corner, my age-peer and great, great friend -- I've told
parts of his story here, including fairly recently, -- the
painter Allyn Amundsen. With my help he moved to Paris that
fall and Boston the year after. His were the first artworks I
collected. If you were ever a denizen of the 1270, you might
have seen a large cowboy mural he painted in the downstairs
bar. The last time I saw him, we spent the evening at Sporter's
(is it still there?). He went out a 4th floor window in 1975
and that was that. I still can't stand it.
--
[] Rob the average man of his life-illusion, and you rob him
[] of his happiness at the same stroke.
[] -- Henrik Ibsen
Chris Ambidge
>>>>For years, I pronounced "harbinger" to rhyme with "singer".
>>These things are so complicated. Do you mean sight-rhyme
>>[HAR-bing-ur] or sound-rhyme [har-BING-ur]? Also, there *is*
>>a sight-rhyme with "singer" (one who singes). :-)
>I meant the first -- as if it meant one who bings hars.
you cad! haven't those poor hars been binged enough?!
>>>English is hard, let's go pick up tricks
>Hard English ones?
hey, I'm game.
>>I suppose one could get a few giggles from intentionally
>>mispronouncing things, as in [hair-uh-DOAT-us] or
>>[HEE-ro-DOT-us].
>>
>>Never mind how hard English is, Greek is *much* harder.
>
>And guessing the accepted pronunciation of Greek names when speaking
>English is harder still.
my experience is that Greek (certainly classical Gk) is
much easier than English. You pronounce everything. Which
syllable to stress is more variable, but (if possible)
antepenultimate usually works [pe-NEL-oh-pee, an-TIG-oh-nee]
Chris
featherstonehaugh = fanshaw
--
Chris Ambidge =|= chemist by day, panda by night
chris....@utoronto.ca =|= amb...@ecf.utoronto.ca
http://www.chem-eng.utoronto.ca/~ambidge/panda.jpg
Chris Ambidge
>This group is certainly US-centric, hardly surprising for any group in which
>the majority of participants are Americans in America. Seizing on a
>pedantic adherence to a given word doesn't change the fact that even though
>we all know Usenet isn't <somewhere>-*based*, as I said, in this instance,
>for all practical purposes it might as well be. You might not think of it
>as such but I bet a straw poll of our non-US posters would probably agree it
>is.
from where I sit in the Great White North, DRS's perceptions
certainly ring true.
Not that I agree that this-is-how-it-should-be; and I will
trip over assertions (or default assumptions) that, for instance,
"the constitution" = the US Constitution.
but the group, simply by virtue of the distribution of people
posting to it, is US-centric.
Chris
enjoying the Victoria Day long holiday weekend
Ken Rudolph
>
> "Tim Wilson" <wils...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:3B057F1F...@bellsouth.net...
> > Jess Anderson wrote:
> > >
> > > "...nether throat..."
> >
> > Yow!
>
> Does it have an uvula?
Do hemorrhoids count?
--
--Ken Rudolph