29 Important Facts about Prostitution
Chive Mynde
1. The higher percentages (80%-90%) of reports of incest and childhood
sexual assaults of prostitutes come from anecdotal reports and from
clinicians working with prostitutes (interviews with Nevada
psychologists cited by Patricia Murphy, Making the Connections: women,
work, and abuse, 1993, Paul M. Deutsch Press, Orlando, Florida; see
also Rita Belton, "Prostitution as Traumatic Reenactment," 1992,
International Society for Traumatic Stress Annual Meeting, Los Angeles,
CA)
2. Estimates of the prevalence of incest among prostitutes range from
65% to 85%. The Council for Prostitution Alternatives, Portland, Oregon
Annual Report in 1991 stated that: 85% of prostitute/clients reported
history of sexual abuse in childhood; 70% reported incest.
3. 68% of 130 San Francisco prostitutes reported having been raped in
prostitution.
88% of 130 San Francisco prostitutes reported having experienced
physical threat in prostitution.
82% of 130 San Francisco prostitutes reported having experienced
physical assault in prostitution.
(Melissa Farley and Norma Hotaling, 1996, in press, "Prostitution,
violence, and posttraumatic stress disorder").
4. "About 80% of women in prostitution have been the victim of a rape.
It's hard to talk about this because..the experience of prostitution is
just like rape. Prostitutes are raped, on the average, eight to ten
times per year. They are the most raped class of women in the history
of our planet. " (Susan Kay Hunter and K.C. Reed, July, 1990 "Taking
the side of bought and sold rape," speech at National Coalition against
Sexual Assault, Washington, D.C. )
5. 70% of San Francisco prostitutes reported being raped by customers an
average of 31 times. (Mimi Silbert, "Compounding factors in the rape of
street prostitutes," 1988, in A.W. Burgess (ed.) Rape and Sexual
Assault II, New York, Garland Publishing.
6. 78% of 55 women who sought help from the Council for Prostitution
Alternatives in 1991 reported being raped an average of 16 times a year
by pimps, and were raped 33 times a year by johns.
(Susan Kay Hunter, Council for Prostitution Alternatives Annual Report,
1991, Portland, Oregon)
7. The average age of entry into prostitution is 13 years (M.H.
Silbert and A.M. Pines, 1982, "Victimization of street prostitutes,
Victimology: An International Journal, 7: 122-133) or 14 years (D.Kelly
Weisberg, 1985, Children of the Night: A Study of Adolescent
Prostitution, Lexington, Mass, Toronto). These studies are outdated,
since the age of entry into prostitution is decreasing. For example,
how do we even conceptualize "juvenile" prostitution, when the age of
consent is lowered to 12 years, as has happened in 1995 in Australia
and Netherlands?
8. 65% of prostitutes reported sexual abuse in childhood (M.H. Silbert
and A.M. Pines, 1982, "Victimization of street
prostitutes, "Victimology: An International Journal, 7: 122-133)
9. 80% of prostitution-survivors at the WHISPER Oral History Project
reported that their customers showed them pornography to illustrate the
kinds of sexual activities in which they wanted to engage. 52% of the
women stated that pornography played a significant role in teaching
them what was expected of them as prostitutes. 30% reported that their
pimps regularly exposed them to pornography in order to indoctrinate
them into an acceptance of the practices depicted. (A facilitator's
guide to Prostitution: a matter of violence against women, 1990,
WHISPER - Women Hurt in Systems of Prostitution Engaged in Revolt -
Lake St. Station, POB 8719, Minneapolis, MN 55408)
10. 32% of 130 prostitutes interviewed in San Francisco reported that
they had been upset by attempts by customers to coerce them into acts
seen in pornography. (Melissa Farley and Norma Hotaling, 1996, in
press, "Prostitution, violence, and posttraumatic stress disorder).
11. 48% of 110 prostitutes interviewed in Thailand reported that they
had been upset by attempts by customers to coerce them into acts seen
in pornography. (Melissa Farley, 1996, unpublished data, POB 16254, San
Francisco CA 94116)
12. In prostitution, "men buy not a self but a body that performs as a
self, and it is a self that conforms to the most harmful, damaging,
racist and sexist concepts of women..." (Kathleen Barry, The
Prostitution of Sexuality, 1995, New York, New York University Press)
13. The prostitution market is driven by customer demand for sexual
service. During WW II, the Japanese military forced from 100,000 to
200,000 Korean women into prostitution to service their military.
(Kathleen Barry, The Prostitution of Sexuality, 1995, New York, New
York University Press)
14. In 1974, police estimated that there were 400,000 prostitutes in
Thailand, procured primarily for the U.S. military on R & R from the
Vietnam War. As of 1993, an unofficial estimate is that there are 2
million prostitutes in Thailand, whose national economy is dependent on
tourism. Prostitution is the largest commodity for the 450,000 Thai men
who purchase prostitutes daily and for a large percentage of the 5.4
million tourists a year who arrive in Thailand for "sex tours."
(Kathleen Barry, The Prostitution of Sexuality, 1995, New York, New
York University Press)
15. 90% of prostituted women interviewed by WHISPER had pimps while in
prostitution (Evelina Giobbe, 1987, WHISPER Oral History Project,
Minneapolis, Minnesota).
16. Pimps target girls or women who seem naive, lonely, homeless, and
rebellious. At first, the attention and feigned affection from the pimp
convinces her to "be his woman." Pimps ultimately keep prostituted
women in virtual captivity by verbal abuse - making a woman feel that
she is utterly worthless: a toilet, a piece of trash; and by physical
coercion - beatings and the threat of torture. 80% to 95% of all
prostitution is pimp-controlled. (Kathleen Barry, The Prostitution of
Sexuality, 1995, New York, New York University Press)
17. The answer to the question "why do prostitutes stay with their
pimps" is the same as the answer to the question "why do battered women
stay with their batterers." Humans bond emotionally to their abusers as
a psychological strategy to survive under conditions of captivity. This
has been described as the Stockholm syndrome (see Dee Graham with
Rawlings and Rigsby, Loving to Survive: Sexual Terror, Men's Violence,
and Women's Lives, 1994, New York University Press, New York.)
18. In 1994, women in the sex industry were identified as one of three
populations most in need of specialized services, primarily as a result
of the violence inflicted upon them as a result of their work. (City of
Seattle Dept of Housing and Human Service, Domestic Violence Community
Advocacy Program Expansion, Feb. 1994)
19. Men call up the image of the whore when they are abusing their
partners. The accusations in between the kicks and slaps: "You
slut....whore...." Historically, the words mean "subhuman," "having no
rights," "invisible," and "wicked." As recently as 1991, police in a
southern California community closed all rape reports made by
prostitutes and addicts, placing them in a file stamped "NHI." The
letters stand for the words "No Human Involved." (Linda Fairstein,
Sexual Violence: Our War Against Rape, 1993, New York, William Morrow.)
20. We usually don't see prostitution as domestic violence because it
is just too painful: "...the carnage: the scale of it, the dailiness of
it, the seeming inevitability of it; the torture, the rapes, the
murders, the beatings, the despair, the hollowing out of the
personality, the near extinguishment of hope commonly suffered by women
in prostitution." (Margaret A. Baldwin "Split at the Root: Prostitution
and Feminist Discourses of Law Reform" in Yale Journal of Law and
Feminism, 1992, Vol 5: 47-120)
21. "Furthermore, 90% of the women in this study had experienced
violence in their personal relationships resulting in miscarriage,
stabbing, loss of consciousness, and head injuries" (Parriott, Ruth.
Health Experiences of Twin Cities Women Used in Prostitution: Survey
Findings and Recommendations. Unpublished, May 1994. Available from
Breaking Free, 1821 University Ave., Suite 312, South, St. Paul,
Minnesota 55104; also available from the Coalition Against Trafficking
in Women.)
22. A Canadian Report on Prostitution and Pornography concluded that
girls and women in prostitution have a mortality rate 40 times higher
than the national average. ( Margaret A. Baldwin, 1992, "Split at the
Root: Prostitution and Feminist Discourses of Law Reform" in Yale
Journal of Law and Feminism, Vol 5: 47-120)
22. In one study, 75% of women in escort prostitution had attempted
suicide. Prostituted women comprised 15% of all completed suicides
reported by hospitals. (Letter from Susan Kay Hunter, Council for
Prostitution Alternatives, Jan 6, 1993, cited by Phyllis Chesler in "A
Woman's Right to Self-Defense: the case of Aileen Carol Wuornos," in
Patriarchy: Notes of an Expert Witness, 1994, Common Courage Press,
Monroe, Maine.
23. In 1993, 42% of women arrested in Seattle on prostitution-related
charges were convicted.
In 1993, 8% of men arrested in Seattle on prostitution-related
charges were convicted. (Seattle Women's Commission, 1995, "Project to
Address the Legal, Political, and Service Barriers Facing Women in the
Sex Industry" Seattle, Washington.
24. Like combat veterans, prostitutes suffer from posttraumatic stress
disorder (PTSD), a psychological reaction to extreme physical and
emotional trauma. Symptoms are acute anxiety, depression, insomnia,
irritability, flashbacks, emotional numbing, and being in a state of
emotional hyperalertness. 130 prostitutes from San Francisco, and 110
prostitutes from Thailand had higher PTSD scores than 123 Vietnam
veterans requesting treatment and 1006 Persian Gulf War veterans.
(Melissa Farley, "Posttraumatic stress disorder among prostitutes -
preliminary data from California and Thailand," October, 1995,
Study Group on Disability, American Public Health Association Annual
Meeting, San Diego, CA)
25. "In addition to the physical and sexual violence clients
perpetrate against women in prostitution, there is also the
psychological and spiritual violence of this invisibility, of listening
to all these details about 'real' sex with 'real" human beings, wives
and girlfriends, and then being expected to fulfill the needs and
fantasies that these non-prostitutes cannot or will not submit to (or
don't know about). It is a violence that spreads, with the john as the
vector of violence, like venereal disease from the bed of one woman to
the bed of another, from the woman in prostitution to the steady
partner. It is invisibility on one end and deception on the other. It
is a tapestry of lies undermining every woman's humanity." (Jane
Anthony, 1996)
26. "[In the past, we had a women's] movement which understood that
the choice to be beaten by one man for economic survival was not a real
choice, despite the appearance of consent a marriage contract might
provide. ...Yet now we are supposed to believe, in the name of
feminism, that the choice to be fucked by hundreds of men for economic
survival must be affirmed as a real choice, and if the woman signs a
model release there is no coercion there." (Catharine A.
MacKinnon, "Liberalism and the Death of Feminism," in Dorchen
Leidholdt and Janice Raymond (eds), The Sexual Liberals and the Attack
on Feminism, 1990, Teachers College Press, New York.)
27. In 1994, women in the sex industry were identified as one of three
populations most in need of specialized services, primarily as a result
of the violence inflicted upon them as a result of their work. (City of
Seattle Dept of Housing and Human Service, Domestic Violence Community
Advocacy Program Expansion, Feb. 1994)
28. 88% of 130 San Francisco prostitutes stated that they wanted to
get out of prostitution (Melissa Farley and Norma Hotaling, 1996, in
press, "Prostitution, violence, and posttraumatic stress disorder). 94%
of 110 Thai prostitutes, and a similar percentage of 108 prostitutes
from Zambia stated that they wanted to get out of prostitution (Melissa
Farley, unpublished data, 1996)
29. There are few if any programs which address the needs of children
of prostitutes. In a recent study of 1,963 prostitutes, more than two-
thirds had at least one child. The average number of children was 2.
40% of the children lived with their grandmothers, but 20% lived with a
mother working as a prostitute. 9% of the children were in foster care.
5% of the working prostitutes were pregnant when interviewed. (Adele
Weiner, "Understanding the Social Needs of Streetwalking Prostitutes,"
1996, Social Work, 41: 97-106.)
- Chive
Science is not belief, but the will to find out.
Giant Attitude
> 29 Important Facts about Prostitution
Here is one of the important facts about prostitution.
Gay sailor on shore leave gives Chive a dollar. Chive owes him change.
Chive Mynde
> chyve...@my-deja.com (Chive Mynde) wrote in message news:<ccd55c9c.01102...@posting.google.com>...
> > 29 Important Facts about Prostitution
>
> Here is one of the important facts about prostitution.
Here are 29:
Mitchell Holman
>gianta...@my-deja.com (Giant Attitude) wrote in message
> news:<ea45e5bb.01102...@posting.google.com>...
>> chyve...@my-deja.com (Chive Mynde) wrote in message
> news:<ccd55c9c.01102...@posting.google.com>...
>> > 29 Important Facts about Prostitution
>>
>> Here is one of the important facts about prostitution.
>
>Here are 29:
>
So what is your point - that prostitution
should be made illegal?
Society
news:qzyB7.152448$W8.41...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> Devin McAndrews as "Chive Mynde" blurted...
> >
> >Giant Attitude wrote...
> >>
> >> Here is one of the important facts about prostitution.
> >
> >Here are 29:
>
> So what is your point - that prostitution
> should be made illegal?
Remember when the feminist vanguard demanded
the *de*criminalization of prostitution on behalf
of Women's Liberation?
--
All arguments within feminism are ultimately ad hoc: one uses
whatever arguments one can muster to prove what it is desired to
prove at the moment (victimization, discrimination, oppression,
persecution, whatever). There is no requirement that the argument
one uses today be consistent with the ones used yesterday, or will
use tomorrow. Men both are and are not more aggressive, better at
math, more persuasive, etc., depending on what is required by the
exigencies of the moment. The feminist need not worry that anyone
will object that today's argument is inconsistent with yesterday's:
anyone who might do so would be branded an "enemy of women,"
and drummed out of the movement. The properly-sensitive, Politically
Correct feminist never criticizes a sister feminist, no matter what
she may say, but instead simply "listens to the multiplicity of
womens' voices."
Excerpted from "Feminism, the Noble Lie" by Robert Sheaffer.
http://hugin.imat.com/~sheaffer/texts/noblelie.html
Mitchell Holman
>"Mitchell Holman" <ta2...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
>news:qzyB7.152448$W8.41...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>>
>> Devin McAndrews as "Chive Mynde" blurted...
>> >
>> >Giant Attitude wrote...
>> >>
>> >> Here is one of the important facts about prostitution.
>> >
>> >Here are 29:
>>
>> So what is your point - that prostitution
>> should be made illegal?
>
>Remember when the feminist vanguard demanded
>the *de*criminalization of prostitution on behalf
>of Women's Liberation?
>
Yep. I agreed with them, too. So what is the
point of this rant about the evils of prostitution?
It is not like the girls are being forced into the
"trade" or anything.
Chive Mynde
Did you learn this from experience, "Giant Attitude"?
Are you a gay prostitute?
Sky King
chyve...@my-deja.com says...
Parg2000
>From: ta2...@worldnet.att.net (Mitchell Holman)
>Date: 10/24/01 5:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <qzyB7.152448$W8.41...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
{Parg} I don't know chive's position on prostitution but mine is simple. It
should be de-criminalized with the knowledge that it harms women. It should
be exposed for the misogyny it is thru education. And women need not date,
befriend or marry men who use women in such a way. However, if prostitution
remains a criminal action, we should arrest those who create the market, johns.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Mark Sobolewski
parg...@cs.com (Parg2000) wrote:
Lessee here: A woman makes money through sex
and Parg claims that's "mysogny".
What concerns you isn't that women would be exploited
(which is clearly rediculous) but that women might
actually (gasp) be providing men with sexual satisfaction
in exchange for their money with no strings attached.
EEEK! :-)
I've been to Europe and yes, even visited Brothels and
there's nothing misogynistic about it. On the contrary,
women and men there have good relationships compared to here.
About dual prosecution: From a law enforcement standpoint,
it makes sense. You go after the buyer as well as the seller.
However, it largely doesn't work that well in practice.
Police are up against the limitation that they can't
engage in entrapment and since it's the seller that
advertises their products, such busts will only become
less and less effective uses of police man (or womanpower).
I was watching an episode of COPS (yeah, really) and the
policewomen said that they couldn't dress in anything
overly provocative because that's a form of solicitation.
A seller ALWAYS has to take some kind of risk of advertising
their products to get regular business while a buyer can
afford to be more cautious.
On a philosophical level, we could argue that men should
be busted as much as the women but equality in enforcement
of laws has never mattered before. This is especially
obvious to the MEN fighting to defend our nation today. <G>
regards,
Mark Sobolewski
Confused
Oh, ok. We should arrest every sexually frustrated man in America for
doing nothing more than seeking out sexual relief. Yeah, that's a
great idea. Let's fill up the prisons with people who have done
absolutely nothing wrong. I'm not saying it's not illegal. I'm saying
it shouldn't be illegal. Meanwhile, while we have the cops harrassing
prostitutes, we have murderers and rapists walking the streets,
unmolested by the law (Because they're so damn busy harrassing the
prostitutes and their customers). That sounds great. As long as there
are sexually frustrated men, there will be a market for prostitution.
It's just insane! We have real, serious crimes going unpunished
because law enforcement officers have their hands full with things
that shouldn't even be crimes.
>
>
Chive Mynde
> parg...@cs.com (Parg2000) wrote in message news:<20011027212714...@mb-mu.news.cs.com>...
> > >Subject: Re: 29 Important Facts about Prostitution
> > >From: ta2...@worldnet.att.net (Mitchell Holman)
> > >Date: 10/24/01 5:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time
> > >Message-id: <qzyB7.152448$W8.41...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
> > >
> > >In article <ccd55c9c.01102...@posting.google.com>,
> > >chyve...@my-deja.com (Chive Mynde) wrote:
> > >>gianta...@my-deja.com (Giant Attitude) wrote in message
> > >> news:<ea45e5bb.01102...@posting.google.com>...
> > >>> chyve...@my-deja.com (Chive Mynde) wrote in message
> news:<ccd55c9c.01102...@posting.google.com>...
> > >>> > 29 Important Facts about Prostitution
> > >>>
> > >>> Here is one of the important facts about prostitution.
> > >>
> > >>Here are 29:
> > >>
> > >
> > > So what is your point - that prostitution
> > >should be made illegal?
> >
> > {Parg} I don't know chive's position on prostitution but mine is simple. It
> > should be de-criminalized with the knowledge that it harms women. It should
> > be exposed for the misogyny it is thru education. And women need not date,
> > befriend or marry men who use women in such a way. However, if prostitution
> > remains a criminal action, we should arrest those who create the market, > johns.
>
>
> Oh, ok. We should arrest every sexually frustrated man in America for
> doing nothing more than seeking out sexual relief.
Sexual "relief" does not entail soliciting illegal prostitution, which
in the majority of cases, harms women, supports drug habits, and
increases STDs in the general population.
Chive Mynde
If you have to ask 'what is your point' you must not
be able to read.
Here are the facts, again:
29 Important Facts about Prostitution
1. The higher percentages (80%-90%) of reports of incest and childhood
Bob
Mark Sobolewski wrote:
> > {Parg} I don't know chive's position on prostitution but mine is simple.
> > It
> > should be de-criminalized with the knowledge that it harms women. It
> > should
> > be exposed for the misogyny it is thru education. And women need not
> > date,
> > befriend or marry men who use women in such a way. However, if
> > prostitution
> > remains a criminal action, we should arrest those who create the market,
> > johns.
>
> Lessee here: A woman makes money through sex
> and Parg claims that's "mysogny".
Don't you know. Women having to work for their living is "misogyny." Women
all ought to be supported by men who do the work.
Bob
Mitchell Holman
>>From: ta2...@worldnet.att.net (Mitchell Holman)
>>Date: 10/24/01 5:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>>Message-id: <qzyB7.152448$W8.41...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
>>
>>In article <ccd55c9c.01102...@posting.google.com>,
>>chyve...@my-deja.com (Chive Mynde) wrote:
>>>gianta...@my-deja.com (Giant Attitude) wrote in message
>>> news:<ea45e5bb.01102...@posting.google.com>...
>>>> chyve...@my-deja.com (Chive Mynde) wrote in message
>>> news:<ccd55c9c.01102...@posting.google.com>...
>>>> > 29 Important Facts about Prostitution
>>>>
>>>> Here is one of the important facts about prostitution.
>>>
>>>Here are 29:
>>>
>>
>> So what is your point - that prostitution
>>should be made illegal?
>
>{Parg} I don't know chive's position on prostitution but mine is simple. It
>should be de-criminalized with the knowledge that it harms women.
Well, that's a start.
It should
>be exposed for the misogyny it is thru education.
One womans' misogyny is another woman's
freely chosen livelihood.
> And women need not date,
>befriend or marry men who use women in such a way.
The women who decide to go into prostitution
may disagree with you on the "used" part. But
then, you know what is best for women than
women do, it seems.
However, if prostitution
>remains a criminal action, we should arrest those who create the market, johns.
>
The "johns" are ALREADY being arrested, in
case you haven't noticed. Hugh Grant, anyone?
Mitchell Holman
>>
>>
>> Oh, ok. We should arrest every sexually frustrated man in America for
>> doing nothing more than seeking out sexual relief.
>
>Sexual "relief" does not entail soliciting illegal prostitution, which
>in the majority of cases, harms women, supports drug habits, and
>increases STDs in the general population.
>
>
Let's see: If a woman picks up a man in a
hotel bar and has sex with him it is recreation,
but if she charges for it suddenly "harms women".
Does the exchange of money make the process
THAT different?
Michael Snyder
Mitchell Holman wrote in message ...
>In article <ccd55c9c.01102...@posting.google.com>, chyve...@my-deja.com (Chive Mynde) wrote:
>
>>>
>>>
>>> Oh, ok. We should arrest every sexually frustrated man in America for
>>> doing nothing more than seeking out sexual relief.
>>
>>Sexual "relief" does not entail soliciting illegal prostitution, which
>>in the majority of cases, harms women,
How does it harm women more than it harms men?
>>supports drug habits,
Oh, giving them money "supports drug habits"?
Well then, we'd better stop giving them WELFARE,
because that's giving them money too, therefore
welfare supports drug habits...
>>and
>>increases STDs in the general population.
And a woman having casual sex with a man
(or another woman, for that matter), that she
picked up in a bar does not increase STDs in the
general population?
Michael Snyder
>In article <20011027212714...@mb-mu.news.cs.com>, parg...@cs.com (Parg2000) wrote:
>>>Subject: Re: 29 Important Facts about Prostitution
>>>From: ta2...@worldnet.att.net (Mitchell Holman)
>>>Date: 10/24/01 5:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>>>Message-id: <qzyB7.152448$W8.41...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
>>>
>>>In article <ccd55c9c.01102...@posting.google.com>,
>>>chyve...@my-deja.com (Chive Mynde) wrote:
>>>>gianta...@my-deja.com (Giant Attitude) wrote in message
>>>> news:<ea45e5bb.01102...@posting.google.com>...
>>>>> chyve...@my-deja.com (Chive Mynde) wrote in message
>>>> news:<ccd55c9c.01102...@posting.google.com>...
>>>>> > 29 Important Facts about Prostitution
>>>>>
>>>>> Here is one of the important facts about prostitution.
>>>>
>>>>Here are 29:
>>>>
>>>
>>> So what is your point - that prostitution
>>>should be made illegal?
>>
>>{Parg} I don't know chive's position on prostitution but mine is simple. It
>>should be de-criminalized with the knowledge that it harms women.
How does it harm women more than it harms men?
Chive Mynde
Nobody has ever stated that position except anti-feminists.
Now, why do anti-feminists continue to misrepresent feminists.
Is it because anti-feminists are incapable of unbiased debate/
Mitchell Holman
}On Sun, 28 Oct 2001 13:14:17 -0800, "Michael Snyder" <msn...@redhat.com>
} wrote:
}
}->
}->How does it harm women more than it harms men?
}->
}
}Obviously that's just part of the "men are bad, and wimmin are
}helpless victims" dogma.
}
}Others have pointed out the real reason: prostitution lowers the
}cost of pussy.
}
I thought prostitution WAS the
price of pussy................
Confused
Sexual "relief" can entail anything that you're sexually into. I say
it now and from now on, prostitution is only illegal because 1)
Religious zealots will stop at nothing to force their way of life on
everyone and 2) Because women realize that if men can buy sex, they'll
lose the only power that they have over us.
> , which
> in the majority of cases, harms women
Smoking harms people. Should it be illegal? Drinking harms both men
and women. Should it be illegal? Eating junk food harms the general
public as a whole and leads to heart disease and cancer. Should we
outlaw any food classified as junk food? The point I'm trying to make
is that if any harm is done to the woman who chooses to go into
prostitution, it is of her own choice and her own doing. Who are you
to tell her she can't do it? Who is the government to tell her that
she can't have consensual sex with another adult? Most of the "harm"
that arises from prostitution is a result of the fact that it's
illegal. People have to sneak around and do it in the shadows. This
inevitably leads to shady dealings.
> supports drug habits
The same could be said for any line of work. There are executives of
major companies that use some of their pay to support their drug
habit. At any rate, I could care less because people with drug habits
are only harming themselves. No skin off my nose.
> increases STDs in the general population.
One word. Condoms. Two more words. Regular checkups. At any rate, the
use of condoms could nearly eliminate the risk of AIDS amongst
prostitutes. That is if all of them simply refused any john that
wasn't willing to wear one.
>
> - Chive
>
> Science is not belief, but the will to find out.
I hate to break it to you but you're the most irrational and
emotional advocate of science that I've seen in a while.
Parg2000
>Date: 10/31/01 9:00 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <d6be0715.0110...@posting.google.com>
{Parg}News Flash: Women were not 'invented' to provide sexual relief to men.
>>
>> Sexual "relief" does not entail soliciting illegal prostitution
>
> Sexual "relief" can entail anything that you're sexually into.
{Parg} Not really. If you don't believe me, try reaching your hand into
Charlotte Church's shorts. <G>
I say>it now and from now on, prostitution is only illegal because 1)
Religious zealots will stop at nothing to force their way of life on
>everyone and 2)
{Parg} Actually, many "religious zealots" are the biggest supporters of
prostitution. You see, sexually frustrated people often resort to
prostitution; look at the trouble Tammy Faye Baker's hubby got into, and then
there was that other religious boy, Rev. Jackson. <G>
Because women realize that if men can buy sex, they'll>lose the only power
that they have over us.
{Parg} Heck no hon; a woman can hook by one man thru marriage for money or
position, or she can hook thru many men thru prostitution. Het men who want
REGULAR SEX and/or PROGENY are subject to the fact that females control those.
If you don't want women to have that particular power don't date women who will
hold you hostage.
>
>> , which
>> in the majority of cases, harms women
>
> Smoking harms people. Should it be illegal?
<cut>
{Parg} Smoking and drinking isn't an action purpetrated by one social group
upon another. My remedy is two fold; on a personal level, I don't befriend
in any way those who objectify women. On a social level, I vote for those who
seek an end of objectification. You are free to see things....your way; it's
a rather sandy view but do go for it.
>>
MH
>
><cut>
>{Parg} Smoking and drinking isn't an action purpetrated by one social group
>upon another.
Neither is prostitution.
My remedy is two fold; on a personal level, I don't befriend
>in any way those who objectify women. On a social level, I vote for those who
>seek an end of objectification.
Tell us, Parg. Except for the exchange of
money afterwards, what makes prostitution
different from women and men shacking up
together for a one-night stand? Or is THAT
what bothers you - that other women are
getting more sex than you?
Michael Snyder
MH wrote in message ...
No -- what bothers her is that _men_ are getting sex.
Parg2000
>Date: 11/1/01 6:00 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <gAcE7.167242$W8.51...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
>
>In article <20011101002847...@mb-fq.news.cs.com>, parg...@cs.com
>(Parg2000) wrote:
>
>>
>><cut>
>>{Parg} Smoking and drinking isn't an action purpetrated by one social
>group
>>upon another.
>
>
> Neither is prostitution.
{Parg} Sure it is. Men are generic buyers, women generic sellers.
>>
> My remedy is two fold; on a personal level, I don't befriend >in any way
those who objectify women. On a social level, I vote for those>who >seek an
end of objectification.
>
>
> Tell us, Parg. Except for the exchange of
>money afterwards, what makes prostitution
>different from women and men shacking up
>together for a one-night stand? Or is THAT
>what bothers you - that other women are
>getting more sex than you?
>
{Parg} Prostitution doesn't pose any problem for me, on a personal level,
since I pack my own chute. On a societal level, the oppression of women is a
concern to me. On a denigration alone level, I need not comment; your
remarks just serve to make you look silly.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Sky King
@cs.com says...
YOU can give YOUR opinion but you do not speak for others, although you
try. sky
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
Confused
And what's really odd is that at the end of the whole thing, the
woman has the money and the man basically has nothing but a smile on
his face. Looks like to me the woman comes out ahead. You know you'll
never get a real answer for that question. They always either shut up
or change the subject when you ask questions they have no answers for.
Parg2000
>Date: 11/1/01 7:02 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <bvdE7.117$e6.1...@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net>
{Parg} I actually don' t care one way or the other about "men getting sex" or
not getting sex. My concerns are much more selfish than that. <G> My
concerns are that 1) victims aren't created by creating a market for
prostitution, and 2) that my tax dollars aren't spent in supporting
prostitution. <G>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
MH__
a market for prostitution. It is already there, and
has always been there. They don't call it "the world's
oldest profession" for nothing.
Secondly, it is funny that Parg is concerned
about her tax dollars "supporting" prostitution,
and yet is silent about her tax dollars going to
stamp out prostitution.
DoubleThink is alive and well on Planet Parg,
it seems...............
Parg2000
>Date: 11/1/01 7:34 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <CvoE7.169254$W8.51...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
{Parg} In a rape-culture like the one we have, where men EXPECT to have their
sexual needs met by 'buying' or 'renting' the bodies of human beings, there is
indeed a market for prostitution. I am questioning the furtherance of that
market by making it a noble cause. <G>
They don't call it "the world's
>oldest profession" for nothing.
{Parg} Indeed.
>
> Secondly, it is funny that Parg is concerned
>about her tax dollars "supporting" prostitution,>and yet is silent about her
tax dollars going to>stamp out prostitution.
>
{Parg} As I've stated, I'd be happy to have prostitution DE-CRIMINALIZED but I
do NOT want it LEGALIZED, which is different.
When prostitution is legalized we support its presence. Clearly, I do NOT
support prostitution, and clearly, I do NOT want my tax dollars supporting it.
Is that a bit more clear?
> DoubleThink is alive and well on Planet Parg,>it seems...............
>
>{Parg} Not really. I've been very clear about my philosophy on hookdom.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
MH__
Are ALL cultures "rape cultures", Parg?
>
>They don't call it "the world's
>>oldest profession" for nothing.
>
>{Parg} Indeed.
>>
>> Secondly, it is funny that Parg is concerned
>>about her tax dollars "supporting" prostitution,>and yet is silent about her
>tax dollars going to>stamp out prostitution.
>>
>{Parg} As I've stated, I'd be happy to have prostitution DE-CRIMINALIZED but I
>do NOT want it LEGALIZED, which is different.
Do explain.
>When prostitution is legalized we support its presence.
Really. How is failing to arrest a woman for taking
money for sex "supporting prostitution"?
Parg2000
>Message-id: <HazE7.169687$W8.52...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
{Parg} I have not studied "ALL" cultures.
>>They don't call it "the world's
>>>oldest profession" for nothing.
>>
>>{Parg} Indeed.
>>>
>>> Secondly, it is funny that Parg is concerned about her tax dollars
"supporting" prostitution,>and yet is silent about
>her tax dollars going to>stamp out prostitution.
>>>
>>{Parg} As I've stated, I'd be happy to have prostitution DE-CRIMINALIZED
>but I
>>do NOT want it LEGALIZED, which is different.
>
>
> Do explain.
>
>
>>When prostitution is legalized we support its presence.
>
>
> Really. How is failing to arrest a woman for taking money for sex
"supporting prostitution"?
>
{Parg} It isn't...that's decriminalization.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
MH__
Well then tell us what you mean by ours being
a "rape culture". That IS what you claimed, as I
recall.
}>>They don't call it "the world's
}>>>oldest profession" for nothing.
}>>
}>>{Parg} Indeed.
}>>>
}>>> Secondly, it is funny that Parg is concerned about her tax dollars
}"supporting" prostitution,>and yet is silent about
}>her tax dollars going to>stamp out prostitution.
}>>>
}>>{Parg} As I've stated, I'd be happy to have prostitution DE-CRIMINALIZED
}>but I
}>>do NOT want it LEGALIZED, which is different.
}>
}>
}> Do explain.
}>
What - no reply? Do tell us the difference between
decriminalizing and legalizing.
}>
}>>When prostitution is legalized we support its presence.
}>
}>
}> Really. How is failing to arrest a woman for taking money for sex
}"supporting prostitution"?
}>
}{Parg} It isn't...that's decriminalization.
}
So tell us the difference you claim exists.
Sky King
@cs.com says...
Prostitutes go where he men are. They even did it in the Gold Fields of
the old west. The men did not send for them. They went for the MONEY.
sky
> >>>>
> >>> What a stupid post. No one NEEDS to "create"a market for prostitution.
> >It
> >>is already there, and
> >>>has always been there.
> >>
> >>{Parg} In a rape-culture like the one we have, where men EXPECT to have
> >their
> >>sexual needs met by 'buying' or 'renting' the bodies of human beings, there
> >is
> >>indeed a market for prostitution.
> >
> >In a feminist culture where women can do anything they want to do some
choose to suck cocks for money and that kills YOU. In other threads you
talk about all the money these ladies make and say its their choice.
sky
MH__
>In article <20011102112740...@mb-co.news.cs.com>, parg2000
>> >>>>
>> >>>>{Parg} I actually don' t care one way or the other about "men getting
>> >sex"
>> >>>or
>> >>>>not getting sex. My concerns are much more selfish than that. <G> My
>> >>>>concerns are that 1) victims aren't created by creating a market for
>> >>>>prostitution, and 2) that my tax dollars aren't spent in supporting
>> >>>>prostitution. <G>
>> >>>>
>
>
>Prostitutes go where he men are. They even did it in the Gold Fields of
>the old west. The men did not send for them. They went for the MONEY.
>sky
Someone should tell Parg about "camp followers"
the polite term for the hoards of prostitutes who
followed armies from battle to battle, offering to
"service" the soldiers. For a fee. All victims of male
exploitation, I presume she would tell us.
Chive Mynde
> ta2...@worldnet.att.net (Mitchell Holman) wrote in message news:<C5_C7.161425$W8.46...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>...
> > In article <ccd55c9c.01102...@posting.google.com>, chyve...@my-deja.com (Chive Mynde) wrote:
> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Oh, ok. We should arrest every sexually frustrated man in America for
> > >> doing nothing more than seeking out sexual relief.
> > >
> > >Sexual "relief" does not entail soliciting illegal prostitution, which
> > >in the majority of cases, harms women, supports drug habits, and
> > >increases STDs in the general population.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Let's see: If a woman picks up a man in a
> > hotel bar and has sex with him it is recreation,
> > but if she charges for it suddenly "harms women".
> > Does the exchange of money make the process
> > THAT different?
>
> And what's really odd is that at the end of the whole thing, the
> woman has the money and the man basically has nothing but a smile on
> his face. Looks like to me the woman comes out ahead.
You're an ignorant fool who thinks movies like "Pretty Woman"
are r-e-a-l.
> You know you'll
> never get a real answer for that question. They always either shut up
> or change the subject when you ask questions they have no answers for.
I've given the answer dozens of times. Here it is again, fool:
Infertility and Prostitution: A Direct Correlation
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=ccd55c9c.0111020407.646271f0%40posting.google.com
Health Effects of Prostitution, Janice G. Raymond
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=ccd55c9c.01102...@posting.google.com
Men's Infidelity May Up Women's STD Risk in Mexico
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=ccd55c9c.0109271525.5ca3bd96%40posting.google.com
Prostitution and drug abuse primary transmission of HIV/AIDS in China
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=91rl1f%242lf%241%40nnrp1.deja.com
ASIA
Trafficking and Prostitution in Bangladesh: Contradictions in Law and
Practice, Sigma Huda
http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/catw/mhvbang.htm
"...a girl may be married off to a total stranger and find herself in
a brothel the next day. Or she can be trafficked across international
borders. Girls are trafficked to Pakistan, using all the travel
routes, namely, air, sea and mostly land routes. In the latter case,
India
becomes the transit county, and on many occasions the receiving
country. Pakistan is both a receiving country and a transit country
for the Middle East countries, especially The United Arab Emirates and
Kuwait. Pakistan has visible slave markets where these trafficked
women are paraded and buyers choose the ones they fancy. The minimum
price
is 5,000 Rupees. The fairer, taller, and prettier they are, the more
desirable they are, the higher the price. The maximum price is put on
virgins. In Pakistan, the Bangladeshi women and children rate higher
than those of other countries for the purpose of prostitution and
sexual slavery. The Sri Lankans and Filipinos rate higher as domestic
help. It is quite common to find the Pakistani males obtain sexual
favors from their female household helps with impunity while their
wives and other family members turn a blind eye. They don’t see
anything wrong with such activities."
SOUTH AMERICA
Preventative Action Against Prostitution in Venezuela,
Zoraida Ramirez Rodriguez
http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/catw/mhvven.htm
"Data on the current situation of Venezuelan children and women in
terms of poverty indices show that 71 percent of this population is
living in poverty at the national level, 87 percent in rural areas,
and 69 percent in urban areas."
MIDDLE EAST
Iranian Women and Girls: Victims of Exploitation and Violence, Sarvnaz
Chitsaz and Soona Samsami
http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/catw/mhviran.htm
Rampant Prostitution
"The social environment imbedded in the misogynous views, laws and
policies of the fundamentalist regime naturally spawns corruption,
making it increasingly difficult for women to survive. Women bear the
brunt of the economic difficulties and social barriers and
restrictions. Large numbers of deprived women have been forced into
prostitution or become addicted to drugs. Meanwhile, the clerical
regime, touting Islam, claims to accord "divine respect" to women.
"It is appalling. Never has prostitution been so rampant. But
everything is done behind the veil," Mahin, a 47-year old female
Iranian jurist purged by the mullahs, told Helen Kami, the French
journalist for Elle magazine who visited Iran in January 1997. Kami
writes: "Prostitutes regularly roam Gandhi Street in north Tehran. At
5 p.m., we go to Istanbuli Street, also in north Tehran. The cab
drivers, looking for wealthy or foreign patrons, are driving slowly.
In exchange for only $1 (500 Tomans), they can provide you with girls,
alcoholic beverages, heroin and hashish."
Many more of the social consequences of the mullahs' rule date
back to the destructive, meaningless Iran-Iraq war, dragged on by
Khomeini's regime for eight years. In this case, too, women and
children suffered most. Since it was very difficult for a widow to
provide for
herself and raise a family in Iran's highly patriarchal society,
multitudes turned to prostitution as the only means of survival.
According to the Associated Press of July 21, 1989, the arrest of a
war
widow for prostitution touched off a national scandal, because the
woman
had prostituted herself as a last resort to feed her family.
Ressalat, a state-controlled newspaper, reported on July 3,
1991: "Three large brothels were discovered and shut down in Tehran in
the past month alone. Thirty-eight women were arrested. Most of the
arrested women said during interrogation that they had turned to
prostitution as a result of poverty."
Unemployment and skyrocketing prices make it impossible for millions
of Iranians to get married and raise a family. At a seminar on the
difficulties of getting married, Ayatollah Haeri Shirazi proposed in
January 1997 that authorities promote an unofficial, temporary
marriage called sigheh, that can last less than 24 hours and be
repeated
as many times as desired. This form of exploitation of women has
become
very widespread, and legitimizes sexual relations with very young
girls.
Quoting Mahin, the Iranian jurist, the Elle magazine reporter wrote in
January 1997 about the life of a 9-year-old girl whose destitute
parents arranged for her to be a sigheh. The man visits his
temporary "wife" every weekend at her father's house, for which
privilege he pays her father about $12 per visit.
Not surprisingly, AIDS is spreading in Iran at an alarming rate.
Despite the serious health and social problems this poses, little is
being done to address the crisis."
AFRICA
Prostitution in Mali, Fatoumata Sire Diakite
http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/catw/mhvmali.htm
"Very often they are beaten, and not paid. When they are paid, the
money is often taken away from them. Very often these women in
prostitution are under the control of pimps, who are men and women.
Regardless of the circumstances, these girls and women in prostitution
are usually very exploited. "
PHILIPPINES
Blazing Trails, Confronting Challenges: The Sexual Exploitation of
Women and Girls in the Philippines, Aida F. Santos
http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/catw/mhvbt.htm
"The problems faced by women and girls in prostitution can be summed
up in four major categories: problems related to health; the law or
the
legal system; services; and violence against women" (CATW, April
1997).
Problems Related to Health
· Lack of comprehensive health services, and not just on sexual
health.
· Women's lack of knowledge of health issues, fear of doctors or
medical professionals, and useless or risky health practices.
· Drug use and risk from drugged clients.
· Expensive and compulsory check-ups for issuance of health
certificates.
· Compulsory HIV tests and the lack of pre-test and post-test
counseling, as well as the violation of confidentiality (publicly
announced results) or no results given.
· Lack of funds for hospitalization and health emergencies.
· Need for AIDS or other reproductive health education.
· Forced intake of contraceptive pills and unsafe abortions.
· The lack of privacy for health checks (e.g., in Cebu City, the pap
smear test was being conducted in a public market; in some Social
Hygiene Clinics, waiting patients could actually see the test being
done on half naked women).
Problems Related to the Law or the Legal System
· Abusive, discriminatory conduct of raids, including arrests,
maltreatment during raids or while in custody, extortion for release.
· Women held in debt bondage.
· Restriction of movement.
· Anti-vagrancy laws are unconstitutional, i.e. they violate equal
protection and are classist and sexist in their enforcement.
Problems Related to Services
· Lack of education, especially in the areas of literacy, rights
awareness, and peer education.
· Women have the status of criminals.
· Inadequate support systems in the areas of counseling and legal
assistance, as well as child care.
· The need for skills development, such as organizational and
management skills, leadership, negotiation and documentation.
Problems Related to Violence Against Women
· Trafficking in women by syndicates that practice active, deceptive
recruitment.
· Economic abuse, i.e. no work, no food and poverty.
· A high rate of rape.
· Domestic violence.
· Violence caused by barangay (village) officials (fees, competition,
harassment).
· Harmful physical, emotional, and psychological effects on the women.
· The "salvaging" or summary execution, especially of sick
women.
Trafficking of Children in Cambodia, Vietnam, and Cuba
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=8sngnv$f77$1...@nnrp1.deja.com
29 Important Facts about Prostitution
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=8svk2l$ih4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com
Prostitution - A Modern Form of Slavery, Dorchen Leidholdt
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=9da7u...@drn.newsguy.com
Prostitution is intrinsically abusive
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=8sjjun$94u$1...@nnrp1.deja.com
HTH.
Confused
They weren't "invented" to be used as pawns in your crusade against
men either. My point was that if they *choose* (There's that
complicated word again. You'd better write it down and look it up) to
go into a profession that specializes in providing said relief, you've
got no business telling them they can't do it. Please do tell me why
your right not to be offended by the existence of prostitutes
outweighs their right to do what ever they want with other consenting
adults behind closed doors?
> >>
> >> Sexual "relief" does not entail soliciting illegal prostitution
> >
> > Sexual "relief" can entail anything that you're sexually into.
>
> {Parg} Not really. If you don't believe me, try reaching your hand into
> Charlotte Church's shorts. <G>
That's not what I meant and you know it. You're just sidestepping the
issue.
>
> I say>it now and from now on, prostitution is only illegal because 1)
> Religious zealots will stop at nothing to force their way of life on
> >everyone and 2)
>
> {Parg} Actually, many "religious zealots" are the biggest supporters of
> prostitution. You see, sexually frustrated people often resort to
> prostitution; look at the trouble Tammy Faye Baker's hubby got into, and then
> there was that other religious boy, Rev. Jackson. <G>
But they certainly never went on the record in any effort to legalize
it. Now did they? My opinion stands.
>
> Because women realize that if men can buy sex, they'll>lose the only power
> that they have over us.
>
> {Parg} Heck no hon; a woman can hook by one man thru marriage for money or
> position, or she can hook thru many men thru prostitution. Het men who want
> REGULAR SEX and/or PROGENY are subject to the fact that females control those.
> If you don't want women to have that particular power don't date women who will
> hold you hostage.
OK, do you Know any? Gee, that's a rare animal. Isn't it?
> >
> >> , which
> >> in the majority of cases, harms women
> >
> > Smoking harms people. Should it be illegal?
>
> <cut>
> {Parg} Smoking and drinking isn't an action purpetrated by one social group
> upon another.
Ah, but smoking IS. Second-hand smoke remember? And prostitution is
NOT an action perpetrated on women by men. These women have minds of
their own. They can *choose* not to do it. And if your argument were
valid in the least (And it isn't), I would say that the female
prostitute is using the man to a far greater degree than the man is
using her. Since she's getting paid and I don't know any man that
could go indefinitely without sex and remain sane. The male has no
choice but to seek out sex. A really attractive proststute could
charge almost any amount of money and there would be men willing to
pay it.
> My remedy is two fold; on a personal level, I don't befriend
> in any way those who objectify women.
You must be a lonely person.
> On a social level, I vote for those who
> seek an end of objectification.
On a personal level, I will do everything within my power to
discredit those who would tell me what to do with my own genitals.
Consensual sex (between adults) should be legal sex, period.
On a social level, I won't vote for anyone who has a record of
denying people their basic rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of
happiness. It's funny that feminists are all for women's rights until
it comes to her right to choose what to do with her sexual organs.
Chive Mynde
> On a social level, I won't vote for anyone who has a record of
> denying people their basic rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of
> happiness.
Oh well. I gues you'll have to vote only for women from
now on, eh?
MH__
>tribo...@aol.com (Confused) wrote in message
> news:<d6be0715.01110...@posting.google.com>...
>
>> On a social level, I won't vote for anyone who has a record of
>> denying people their basic rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of
>> happiness.
>
>Oh well. I gues you'll have to vote only for women from
>now on, eh?
You mean women who think women do not deserve
equal rights, like Phyllis Schlafley?
Sky King
ta2...@worldnet.att.net says...
to the whores that followed Hooker's Army around. sky
>
>
>
MH__
Indeed. But these "victims of male stereotypes"
have been following armies since the days of the
Pharohs and Alexander the Great.
Michael Snyder
MH__ wrote in message ...
Interestingly, the same Chive Mynde who started this thread by
posting his list of 29 reasons why prostitutes are victims of men,
also posted the following less than a year earlier:
chive...@hotmail.com wrote:
>You believe that most prostitutes are forced by
>men to sell their bodies! You believe that all of womens problems are
>caused by MEN with COCKS! When, Sandy, will you start taking
>responsibility for your actions and start being accountable for your choices?
>
>The biggest supporters of prostitution are not men, but WOMEN.
It seems that Chive only developed his feminism when he
invaded ALT.FEMINISM in April of this year. Before that,
his views were almost anti-woman!
Strange coincidence? Or is Chive merely adapting the stance
that will get him the most attention here?
Sky King
fault but like all fems they never take responsibility for their
actions. They MUST blame someone or something.sky
>
Parg2000
>Message-id: <d6be0715.01110...@posting.google.com>
{Parg} Indeed, which is why it should be DECRIMINALIZED rather than legalized.
You see, I don't believe in prostitution, so I won't become one; I won't date
or befriend one; I won't marry one, nor would I marry one who uses women in
such a manner. AND, I have every right to vote to make very certain my tax
dollars don't go to support that which I abhor.
Please do tell me why>your right not to be offended by the existence of
prostitutes
>outweighs their right to do what ever they want with other consenting
>adults behind closed doors?
>
{Parg} Did you not here me? I said prostitution should be decriminalized.
What that means is that folks shouldn't have the right to lock up poor women
who can't earn money any other way. Either that, or the johns should be
arrested and not the hookers.
>> >>
>> >> Sexual "relief" does not entail soliciting illegal prostitution
>> >
>> > Sexual "relief" can entail anything that you're sexually into.
{Parg} Did you forget that prostitution is now illegal in most of America?
<G>
>>
>> {Parg} Not really. If you don't believe me, try reaching your hand into
>> Charlotte Church's shorts. <G>
>
> That's not what I meant and you know it. You're just sidestepping the
>issue.
{Parg} No. I'm very clear about the issue. I don't support prostitution. I
DO support not arresting poor women who do risky things for money. AND I don't
want MY tax dollars going for your sex life.
>
>>
>> I say>it now and from now on, prostitution is only illegal because 1)>>
Religious zealots will stop at nothing to force their way of life on
>> >everyone and 2)
>>
>> {Parg} Actually, many "religious zealots" are the biggest supporters of>>
prostitution. You see, sexually frustrated people often resort to
prostitution; look at the trouble Tammy Faye Baker's hubby got into, and
>then> there was that other religious boy, Rev. Jackson. <G>
>
> But they certainly never went on the record in any effort to legalize>it. Now
did they? My opinion stands.
>
{Parg} There is no reason to legalize it. There are reasons to decriminalize
it.
>>
>> Because women realize that if men can buy sex, they'll>lose the only power
>> that they have over us.
>>
>> {Parg} Heck no hon; a woman can hook by one man thru marriage for money
>or>> position, or she can hook thru many men thru prostitution. Het men who
>want>> REGULAR SEX and/or PROGENY are subject to the fact that females control
>those. > If you don't want women to have that particular power don't date
women who
>will> hold you hostage.
>
> OK, do you Know any? Gee, that's a rare animal. Isn't it?
>
{Parg} Well, the more women free themselves in a world of misogyny and sexism,
the less likely it will become that they will marry or hook for money. IOW,
marry a feminst. <G>
>> >
>> >> , which
>> >> in the majority of cases, harms women
>> >
>> > Smoking harms people. Should it be illegal?
>>
>> <cut>
>> {Parg} Smoking and drinking isn't an action purpetrated by one social
>group
>> upon another.
>
> Ah, but smoking IS. Second-hand smoke remember? And prostitution is
>NOT an action perpetrated on women by men. These women have minds of
>their own. They can *choose* not to do it. And if your argument were
>valid in the least (And it isn't), I would say that the female
>prostitute is using the man to a far greater degree than the man is
>using her. Since she's getting paid and I don't know any man that
>could go indefinitely without sex and remain sane. The male has no
>choice but to seek out sex.
{Parg} What makes you imagine...that women have to be responsible for your sex
urges. If tomorrow ....all women suddenly said "no", you'd have to resort to
your own device.
A really attractive proststute could
>charge almost any amount of money and there would be men willing to
>pay it.
{Parg} I agree. So what? What I'm trying to get you to see here is that men
are responsible for their own sexual relief. If women want to participate the
choice is theirs and if you allow it from your end, so are the terms.
>
>> My remedy is two fold; on a personal level, I don't befriend>> in any way
those who objectify women.
>
> You must be a lonely person.
>
{Parg} Not at all. I'm a well-respected business owner and community leader.
I'm a good citizen who has maintained friendships from the play-pen on up. I
keep my friends close, and my enemies closer. <G>
>> On a social level, I vote for those who
>> seek an end of objectification.
>
> On a personal level, I will do everything within my power to
>discredit those who would tell me what to do with my own genitals.
{Parg} I totally think that's fair, if you're up to it. Your genitals and
your vote are your own. My choice of friends, lovers and mates are MY own, as
is my vote.
>Consensual sex (between adults) should be legal sex, period.
{Parg} It already is. What is not legal is a contract based on sex.
>
> On a social level, I won't vote for anyone who has a record of>denying people
their basic rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of
>happiness. It's funny that feminists are all for women's rights until
>it comes to her right to choose what to do with her sexual organs.
>
{Parg} You still don't seem to understand my position. I'm all for the
de-criminalization of prostitution as long as my tax dollars are not helping to
pay for your blow job.
Parg2000
>Date: 11/2/01 9:51 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <T2BE7.169767$W8.52...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
entertainment in the newspaper with women being used and men being the user.
Walk down certain streets in any big city and you see women for sale per view
or per body.
It's not something that's egalitarian; it's women for sale, not men. Ours
is a culture that entertains rape as a sport. When men finger fuck inflatible
dolls at sports events and when men rape girls in frat houses, women have
become a consumable item rather than human beings. It just depicts a rape
centered society.
When men define having a sexual relationship with a woman by overpowering her,
or by some notion of penetration as victory, it becomes a rape culture.
>}>>They don't call it "the world's
>}>>>oldest profession" for nothing.
>}>>
>}>>{Parg} Indeed.
>}>>>
>}>>> Secondly, it is funny that Parg is concerned about her tax
dollars>}"supporting" prostitution,>and yet is silent about
>}>her tax dollars going to>stamp out prostitution.
>}>>>
>}>>{Parg} As I've stated, I'd be happy to have prostitution DE-CRIMINALIZED
>}>but I}>>do NOT want it LEGALIZED, which is different.
>}>
>}>
>}> Do explain.
>}>
>
> What - no reply? Do tell us the difference between
>decriminalizing and legalizing.
>
{Parg} Sure. In legalization, we maintain the possibility of support of
prostitution and in de-criminalization, we simply look the other way when it
transpires.
>>}>
>}>>When prostitution is legalized we support its presence.
>}>
>}>
>}> Really. How is failing to arrest a woman for taking money for
sex>}"supporting prostitution"?
>}>
>}{Parg} It isn't...that's decriminalization.
>}
>
> So tell us the difference you claim exists.
>
>{Parg} I just did.
>
WriterMan2K
>Date: 11/3/2001 7:54 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <20011103205441...@mb-cp.news.cs.com>
Then explain pornography designed for women.
>Walk down certain streets in any big city and you see women for sale per view
>or per body.
When I used to live and work in Manhattan (fyi, that is in New York City, not
Africa, O geographically-challenged one!), I sometimes saw sex for sale on
Seventh Avenue around 42nd Street (fyi, that's around Times Square--the place
you see on TV on New Year's Eve, where they drop the glittering ball). That
was the only place, and I have been to most of the major cities in the USA.
Maybe you are talking about some other country?
>It's not something that's egalitarian;
Who cares? Since when did you care about equality?
>it's women for sale, not men.
Explain pornography designed for women.
Ours
>is a culture that entertains rape as a sport.
Oh yeah? Where? In your imagination? Before you make such foolish claims,
Pargie-POOP, you would do well to remember that it was MEN who enacted laws
prohibiting rape. Now what?
>When men finger fuck
>inflatible
>dolls at sports events
Huh?????? What color is the sky in your world?
>and when men rape girls in frat houses,
Where did you get such nonsense? Fantasies in female-oriented pornography?
women have
>become a consumable item rather than human beings.
I don't know anyone who thinks like that. Maybe you are just hanging with the
wrong crowd, old girl.
It just depicts a rape
>centered society.
Oh yeah, sure, Pargee-PEW. Our whole society revolves around rape. Rape is
the very center of our civilization! Get a fucking clue, you worthless idiot!
>When men define having a sexual relationship with a woman by overpowering
>her,
False premise. Next.
>or by some notion of penetration as victory, it becomes a rape culture.
You are one disturbed bull dyke.
>>}>>They don't call it "the world's
>>}>>>oldest profession" for nothing.
>>}>>
>>}>>{Parg} Indeed.
>>}>>>
>>}>>> Secondly, it is funny that Parg is concerned about her tax
>dollars>}"supporting" prostitution,>and yet is silent about
>>}>her tax dollars going to>stamp out prostitution.
>>}>>>
>>}>>{Parg} As I've stated, I'd be happy to have prostitution DE-CRIMINALIZED
>>}>but I}>>do NOT want it LEGALIZED, which is different.
>>}>
>>}>
>>}> Do explain.
>>}>
>>
>> What - no reply? Do tell us the difference between
>>decriminalizing and legalizing.
>>
>{Parg} Sure. In legalization, we maintain the possibility of support of
>prostitution and in de-criminalization, we simply look the other way when it
>transpires.
That is a distinction without a difference. Man, you must be hitting that
model airplane glue hard lately!
>>>}>
>>}>>When prostitution is legalized we support its presence.
>>}>
>>}>
>>}> Really. How is failing to arrest a woman for taking money for
>sex>}"supporting prostitution"?
>>}>
>>}{Parg} It isn't...that's decriminalization.
>>}
>>
>> So tell us the difference you claim exists.
>>
>>{Parg} I just did.
Nah, you just offered some words and meaningless attempts at distinctions that
do not exist in the real world.
WriterMan2K
Deborah Terreson
----------
In article <2bUE7.406$Ly1.5...@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net>, "Michael
Snyder" <msn...@redhat.com> wrote:
Michael, I nailed this one some time ago that he was only here to get
attention from the uber-fem types, even before this little gem of honesty
was discovered. I think he's probably working on getting into someone's
pants - he's on the hunt for pussy and doesn't have the imagination to get
it any other way than pretending to be the whight knight in armour -
otherwise there's no logic to why he's done such an about face...
Deb.
>
>
>
Deborah Terreson
----------
In article <20011104014443...@mb-mo.aol.com>,
write...@aol.com (WriterMan2K) wrote:
>>Subject: Re: 29 Important Facts about Prostitution
>>From: parg...@cs.com (Parg2000)
>>Date: 11/3/2001 7:54 PM Central Standard Time
>>Message-id: <20011103205441...@mb-cp.news.cs.com>
>>>
>>{Parg} Ours is a culture that classifies pornography as either a sport or an
>>entertainment in the newspaper with women being used and men being the user.
>
> Then explain pornography designed for women.
In Pargenon's world, women like Susie Bright and others who have taken
control of their sexuality and are making money off of it are like the
bastard child at a family reunion. Everyone sees it, but no one wants to
accept that it is there. It's a fucked-up, 1950's repressed-type thing.
>
>>Walk down certain streets in any big city and you see women for sale per view
>>or per body.
>
> When I used to live and work in Manhattan (fyi, that is in New York City, not
> Africa, O geographically-challenged one!), I sometimes saw sex for sale on
> Seventh Avenue around 42nd Street (fyi, that's around Times Square--the place
> you see on TV on New Year's Eve, where they drop the glittering ball). That
> was the only place, and I have been to most of the major cities in the USA.
> Maybe you are talking about some other country?
<chuckle> Hmm. Yeah.. Now that I think of it, even the Combat Zone in Boston
is down to one lonely store that sells novelties and joke gifts.
Have you ever listened to the song "Jezebel Boy" by Frank Zappa (off of the
album 'Broadway the Hard Way')? - it's one of the best songs written about
male prostitution. I guess in Pargenon's world if a boy is selling his body,
it's his choice, while a girl who does it is a victim?
>
>>It's not something that's egalitarian;
>
> Who cares? Since when did you care about equality?
She doesn't.
>
>>it's women for sale, not men.
>
> Explain pornography designed for women.
She won't. You're wasting your breath..
>
> Ours
>>is a culture that entertains rape as a sport.
>
> Oh yeah? Where? In your imagination? Before you make such foolish claims,
> Pargie-POOP, you would do well to remember that it was MEN who enacted laws
> prohibiting rape. Now what?
>
>>When men finger fuck
>>inflatible
>>dolls at sports events
>
> Huh?????? What color is the sky in your world?
The meds are wearing off.
>
>>and when men rape girls in frat houses,
>
> Where did you get such nonsense? Fantasies in female-oriented pornography?
>
> women have
>>become a consumable item rather than human beings.
>
> I don't know anyone who thinks like that. Maybe you are just hanging with the
> wrong crowd, old girl.
She's jealous cause the younger prettier girls and women can still get the
menfolk's attention. That they are more attractive, both physically, and
spiritually to men of course makes them 'victims'.
>
> It just depicts a rape
>>centered society.
>
> Oh yeah, sure, Pargee-PEW. Our whole society revolves around rape. Rape is
> the very center of our civilization! Get a fucking clue, you worthless idiot!
>
>>When men define having a sexual relationship with a woman by overpowering
>>her,
>
> False premise. Next.
Margenon's syndrome..she's trying to change the subject..
>
>>or by some notion of penetration as victory, it becomes a rape culture.
>
> You are one disturbed bull dyke.
I don't think she's a bull-dyke. Bull dykes DO admit there's porn for women
and are into some of the nastiest shit you've ever seen (I used to go to
ManRay alot in my youth - it's a Gay/Lesbian dance club near Boston.. saw
some freaky shit there...). Oversized dildoes, anal fisting, double fisting,
you name it!
>
>>>}>>They don't call it "the world's
>>>}>>>oldest profession" for nothing.
>>>}>>
>>>}>>{Parg} Indeed.
>>>}>>>
>>>}>>> Secondly, it is funny that Parg is concerned about her tax
>>dollars>}"supporting" prostitution,>and yet is silent about
>>>}>her tax dollars going to>stamp out prostitution.
>>>}>>>
>>>}>>{Parg} As I've stated, I'd be happy to have prostitution DE-CRIMINALIZED
>>>}>but I}>>do NOT want it LEGALIZED, which is different.
>>>}>
>>>}>
>>>}> Do explain.
>>>}>
>>>
>>> What - no reply? Do tell us the difference between
>>>decriminalizing and legalizing.
>>>
>>{Parg} Sure. In legalization, we maintain the possibility of support of
>>prostitution and in de-criminalization, we simply look the other way when it
>>transpires.
>
> That is a distinction without a difference. Man, you must be hitting that
> model airplane glue hard lately!
>
>>>>}>
>>>}>>When prostitution is legalized we support its presence.
>>>}>
>>>}>
>>>}> Really. How is failing to arrest a woman for taking money for
>>sex>}"supporting prostitution"?
>>>}>
>>>}{Parg} It isn't...that's decriminalization.
>>>}
>>>
>>> So tell us the difference you claim exists.
>>>
>>>{Parg} I just did.
>
> Nah, you just offered some words and meaningless attempts at distinctions that
> do not exist in the real world.
Why that's almost everything she posts!
Deb.
>
> WriterMan2K
OhSojourner
> "Michael Snyder" <msn...@redhat.com> wrote:
>> MH__ wrote in message ...
>>> Sky King <m...@home.net> wrote:
>>>> ta2...@worldnet.att.net says...
>>>>> Sky King <m...@home.net> wrote:
>>>>>> parg2000
>> chive...@hotmail.com wrote:
Indeed, Deb. I figured that too -- in fact, check this out:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=3b287e3c%241_1%40n-ews2.cwnet.com
From: Chive Mynde (0)
Subject: Re: Why does it seem men are posting to this group dissproportionately
Newsgroups: alt.feminism
View complete thread (30 articles)Date: 2001-06-14 01:57:35 PST
>-- on Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:09:13 -0400, Simon Sezz <s...@net.com> said:
> If people read the FAQs for this group, they would know why men post
> here.
> Simon
. WHY ARE THERE SO MANY MEN POSTING TO THIS GROUP?
It is estimated that 90% of the people of Usenet are male. It is
not surprising, then, that a lot of men would be found on any one
particular group. In an informal survey of four days' traffic
conducted in November 1993, it was found that men were responsible
for 70% of alt.feminism's articles. So, while this group has a
majority of men, the percentage of women is high above average.
Add to that the fact that many men are sympathetic to feminism,
and the fact that many anti-feminists are men, and you get a lot
of men on alt.feminism.
And John Blackman points out that "it's a great place to meet
chicks."
- Chive
-- Posted via nooz.net - is this thing working? --
Michael Snyder
Deborah Terreson wrote in message ...
Oh, no no, my theory is the opposite. Chive does not even hope to get
laid, he just relishes the attention. The NEGATIVE attention. Who has
he been getting the most attention from? The feminists? No! He's been
getting the most attention from the anti-bigotry anti-sexism anti-feminists.
This is what trolls do, Deb -- they post whatever will PISS OFF the
greatest number of people, just to get a response. Chive is a very lonely
man, who will do anything for attention, even if the attention looks like hate.
Parg2000
>From: "Deborah Terreson" fooda...@mediaone.net
>Date: 11/4/01 5:57 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <gPbF7.5030$kw.20...@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>
{Parg} I agree. Wherever there is a 'market' for selling people that is
where the transaction will take place.
>>>
>>>>> Someone should tell Parg about "camp followers">>>>> the polite term
for the hoards of prostitutes who
>>>>> followed armies from battle to battle, offering to
>>>>> "service" the soldiers. For a fee. All victims of male
>>>>> exploitation, I presume she would tell us.
>>
{Parg} Anytime there is a 'market' for the selling of people there is
exploitation for a price.
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> How do they think the term Hooker came about. It was the name given
>>>>to the whores that followed Hooker's Army around. sky
>>>
>>>
>>> Indeed. But these "victims of male stereotypes">>>have been following
armies since the days of the>Pharohs and Alexander the Great.
{Parg} Totally agreed. Wherever there is a market, thats where slaves were
sold, and that's where prostitutes were likely to earn their daily bread as
well. Today, it isn't just the selling of slaves that has become illegal, but
rather slavery itself. You can no more sell yourself to be a slave than you
can buy one.
>>> Interestingly, the same Chive Mynde who started this thread by
>> posting his list of 29 reasons why prostitutes are victims of men,
>> also posted the following less than a year earlier:
>>
>> chive...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>You believe that most prostitutes are forced by>>>men to sell their bodies!
You believe that all of womens problems are
>>>caused by MEN with COCKS! When, Sandy, will you start taking
>>>responsibility for your actions and start being accountable for your
>choices?
{Parg} What makes you think Chive was in a different position then, by
demanding that a woman be accountable? You see, we are all accountable for our
choices, and THAT doesn't mean that the market for slavery wasn't wrong or
that prostitution isn't wrong.
>>>
>>>The biggest supporters of prostitution are not men, but WOMEN.
{Parg} The biggest supporters of prostitution can be found by following the
market and the money.
>>
>> It seems that Chive only developed his feminism when he>> invaded
ALT.FEMINISM in April of this year. Before that,
>> his views were almost anti-woman!
>>
>> Strange coincidence? Or is Chive merely adapting the stance
>> that will get him the most attention here?
>
>Michael, I nailed this one some time ago that he was only here to get
>attention from the uber-fem types, even before this little gem of honesty
>was discovered. I think he's probably working on getting into someone's
>pants - he's on the hunt for pussy and doesn't have the imagination to get
>it any other way than pretending to be the whight knight in armour -
>otherwise there's no logic to why he's done such an about face...
{Parg} Well, if what you say is true, the alleged "pussy" he's after doesn't
stay home, waiting for some guy to care for her, read romance novels and eat
YOUR bon bons.
<G>
>
>Deb.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
MH__
>>Subject: Re: 29 Important Facts about Prostitution
>
>>
>> Well then tell us what you mean by ours being >a "rape culture". That IS
>what you claimed, as I>recall.
>>
>{Parg} Ours is a culture that classifies pornography as either a sport or an
>entertainment in the newspaper with women being used and men being the user.
It is also a culture which outlaws pornography
and jails people for selling it. Ask Larry Flint.
>Walk down certain streets in any big city and you see women for sale per view
>or per body.
And all the women who compete for those
modeling jobs are "victims of male stereotypes",
I presume. Let us all shed a tear for Christie Brinkley
and Heidi Klume, shall we?
>It's not something that's egalitarian; it's women for sale, not men. Ours
>is a culture that entertains rape as a sport.
If rape is a sport, why did Mike Tyson go to
jail for it? Why is rape a felony in all states, as
per laws drafted by those male legislatures?
>When men define having a sexual relationship with a woman by overpowering her,
>or by some notion of penetration as victory, it becomes a rape culture.
Hmm. As I recall rape carried the death penalty
until women got into politics. Coincidence?
>>
>> What - no reply? Do tell us the difference between
>>decriminalizing and legalizing.
>>
>{Parg} Sure. In legalization, we maintain the possibility of support of
>prostitution and in de-criminalization, we simply look the other way when it
>transpires.
So was abortion legalized or de-criminalized?
How about flag burning? Did striking down the
laws against it mean it was "legalized" or just
"decriminalized"?
Sky King
msn...@redhat.com says...
he may get some play with the lesbians here. chuckle
sky
OhSojourner
>> Subject: Re: [Chive] 29 Important Facts about Prostitution
>> From: "Deborah Terreson" fooda...@mediaone.net
>> Date: 11/4/01 5:57 AM Pacific Standard Time Message-id
<snip>
>> Michael, I nailed this one some time ago that he was only
>> here to get attention from the uber-fem types, even before
>> this little gem of honesty was discovered. I think he's
>> probably working on getting into someone's pants - he's on
>> the hunt for pussy and doesn't have the imagination to get it
>> any other way than pretending to be the whight knight in
>> armour - otherwise there's no logic to why he's done such an
>> about face...
> {Parg} Well, if what you say is true, the alleged "pussy" he's
> after doesn't stay home, waiting for some guy to care for her,
> read romance novels and eat YOUR bon bons. <G>
Judging by the vast amount of free time he seems to have (hmmmm...), he's
prolly hoping some Valkyrie woman will come to rescue HIM! :-D
Bob
Parg2000 wrote:
> {Parg} Ours is a culture that classifies pornography as either a sport or an
> entertainment in the newspaper with women being used and men being the user.
> Walk down certain streets in any big city and you see women for sale per view
> or per body.
Why do you oppose a women's right to work at the occupation
of her choice?
And here we thought you favored rights for women. What a
pack of lies. You just want women and men to do what you
tell them. Pathetic!
>Ours
> is a culture that entertains rape as a sport.
I have no problem with that.
But, like all the rest of your pack of lies it isn't true.
> When men define having a sexual relationship with a woman by overpowering her,
> or by some notion of penetration as victory, it becomes a rape culture.
Rape is one of the most frequent themes of women's fiction.
Its not coincidental that Gone With the Wind is the most
popular women's novel of all time. Women, not men, are the
ones who continue to fantasize about rape. You, for
example, bring up rape more than anyone else on this
newsgroup. You seem to fantasize about rape day after day.
What is the matter, aren't you getting any lately, or do you
just want a strong man to sweep you off your feet? Is that
why you keep bringing the subject up, hoping that some
strong man will take you up on your often repeated request?
Pathetic!
Bob
Rich
Bob wrote:
>
> Parg2000 wrote:
> > {Parg} Ours is a culture that classifies pornography as either a sport or an
> > entertainment in the newspaper with women being used and men being the user.
> > Walk down certain streets in any big city and you see women for sale per view
> > or per body.
>
> Why do you oppose a women's right to work at the occupation
> of her choice?
It's simple, Parg opposes anything and everything that brings men pleasure.
Typical feminist.
Rich
> Bob
MH__
>
>
>Parg2000 wrote:
>> {Parg} Ours is a culture that classifies pornography as either a sport or an
>> entertainment in the newspaper with women being used and men being the user.
>> Walk down certain streets in any big city and you see women for sale per view
>> or per body.
>
>Why do you oppose a women's right to work at the occupation
>of her choice?
>
>And here we thought you favored rights for women. What a
>pack of lies. You just want women and men to do what you
>tell them. Pathetic!
That is the way things work on Planet Parg. If a woman
chooses a profession Parg doesn't like (modeling, turning
tricks, acting in sex films) they are "victims of male exploitation".
Victimology 101 is one of the few courses Parg passed,
it seems................
MH__
And a lot of women too.
>Typical feminist.
>
Yep.
Tom Smith
I think Sky has Chive nailed here. Good work Sky!!
Tom
Deborah Terreson
----------
In article <20011104130127...@mb-cj.aol.com>,
ohsoj...@aol.comedy (OhSojourner) wrote:
> Parg1971 wrote:
>
>> {Parg} Well, if what you say is true, the alleged "pussy" he's
>> after doesn't stay home, waiting for some guy to care for her,
>> read romance novels and eat YOUR bon bons. <G>
Hey! I ate my own bon-bons thankyouverymuch! Actually, I think I'm going to
maow through a pint (read single-serving size) of Ben & Jerry's! Fuck it,
I'm periodic today and don't give a shit, to hell with worrying about
getting thunder thighs...
>
> Judging by the vast amount of free time he seems to have (hmmmm...), he's
> prolly hoping some Valkyrie woman will come to rescue HIM! :-D
*LOL* Do you think he's manly enough for a Valkyrie woman?
Deb.
MH__
And whereever women can find a way to
make a buck off of men, they will do it. And
then complain how "victimized" they are,
even as they count their money.
Anna Nicole Smith, anyone?
Michael Snyder
Tom Smith (QIM) wrote in message ...
Yeah, he's one o' them there "lesbians trapped in a man's body".
In other words, neither sex will have him, least of all a feminist.
Jennifer Larson
Deborah Terreson wrote:
> Deb.
Wow, some chyx are wilder than me. I couldn't stand watching lesbo sex.
There are just some things I do not like watching. However, I do like to
watch some porn and view naked men :). Live or memorex :). Why? Because
I like human bodies, I know mine, I figure all women have what I have, I
am not interested in thiers. I realized this around age 11. It's why I
am here IMO. I knew than that I would want to have sex with men, but
also knew it would be awhile so I concentrated on knowing my body
completely, when I was feeling horny I crossed over to sex with men and
now I'm concentrating on men's bodies (because I can and I like it).
It's normal, and I am a fairly normal chyk. I also know the world is
wild place and I don't care to waste my time worrying about what other
people are interested in unless it is infringing on others. I maintain
this code and expect that others do as well. If sex sells, sell it if ya
got it and you want to. I'm a capitalist with principles above.
Sky King
And the women travel where that market is. See Hooker's Army. chuckle
sky
Parg2000
>> And whereever women can find a way to
>> make a buck off of men, they will do it. And
>> then complain how "victimized" they are,
>> even as they count their money.
>>
>> Anna Nicole Smith, anyone?
{Parg} So, you seem to agree with me that women who marry for money are just
like prostitutes. A woman can have sex with one man for money, in marriage, or
have sex with many men and keep CONTROL over her proceeds. Hmmmmmm.
<G>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Sky King
@cs.com says...
The man goes home to wife and or girlfriend ...............
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
Confused
> tribo...@aol.com (Confused) wrote in message news:<d6be0715.01110...@posting.google.com>...
> > ta2...@worldnet.att.net (Mitchell Holman) wrote in message news:<C5_C7.161425$W8.46...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>...
> > > In article <ccd55c9c.01102...@posting.google.com>, chyve...@my-deja.com (Chive Mynde) wrote:
> > >
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Oh, ok. We should arrest every sexually frustrated man in America for
> > > >> doing nothing more than seeking out sexual relief.
> > > >
> > > >in the majority of cases, harms women, supports drug habits, and
> > > >increases STDs in the general population.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Let's see: If a woman picks up a man in a
> > > hotel bar and has sex with him it is recreation,
> > > but if she charges for it suddenly "harms women".
> > > Does the exchange of money make the process
> > > THAT different?
> >
> > And what's really odd is that at the end of the whole thing, the
> > woman has the money and the man basically has nothing but a smile on
> > his face. Looks like to me the woman comes out ahead.
>
> You're an ignorant fool who thinks movies like "Pretty Woman"
> are r-e-a-l.
Still fanning the flames I see. I hated that movie. Completely
unrealistic. Funny though. Every female I've ever heard talk about it
absolutely loved it.
>
> > You know you'll
> > never get a real answer for that question. They always either shut up
> > or change the subject when you ask questions they have no answers for.
>
> I've given the answer dozens of times. Here it is again, fool:
"Fool"? Oh, that really hurt. Perhaps next time you'll come up with a
real zinger...bitch (Don't really care if you're male or female
because that word can apply equally to both). You've done nothing but
post statistics and articles from biased sources. In the cases where
the source wasn't biased, you took what you needed out of context and
left out the parts that hurts your agenda.
Now, all these "problems" that you say are caused by prostitution
mainly arise from the social stigma placed upon prostitutes by people
just like you. A great deal of them arise from the very fact that it's
illegal in many areas (At least here in the US). Things are bound to
get a bit shifty and dirty when you're constantly worried about being
busted. A prostitute has really noone to turn to for help because she
doesn't have any legal rights to do what she's doing. Cops look the
other way because they see hookers as criminals. The legal system
bears more responsibility for any bad things that happen to female
prostitutes than men do. Society outlaws their way of life, places a
huge social stigma upon them and then tells them they're doing it
because they care about them. If you really believe these women want
to be saved by you on your high horse, why don't you try giving some
of them a choice and the tools necessary to get out of prostitution?
You'd get some takers and you'd get some that would be perfectly
content to stay where they are. Why? Because people are individuals.
People are also sexual animals. How do you know that some of these
women don't enjoy it? I know that some female porn stars enjoy it. And
while we're on the subject, isn't porn exactly the same thing as
prostitution? Paid for sex. But that's an organized business and
people like you would rather attack individuals than organizations.
Even the government and state DAs don't screw with organizations like
the porn industry (Well, every once in a while they do but it's not
too often that they win). Why? Because they know these people have the
financial resources to fight them in court and win (Because the DAs
rarely have a legal leg to stand on and they know it). The bottom line
is that it doesn't matter if prostitution causes harm to those who
participate in it. The bottom line is the right to choose to have sex
with another consenting adult. I would argue that this is a basic
right guaranteed us by the constitution. If you think that it isn't
so, then tell me what is preventing the cops from arresting people for
casual sex? No amount of your nattering and copy/pasting can get
around this undeniable truth. It's amazing how a law can go so clearly
against everything we believe in and still have any political support.
I'd really like to hear something original from you. Something you
actaully used your own brain to come up with. Explain to me the
difference between a playboy who meets and has casual sex with perhaps
50 or more women within a few years time and a prostitute. Even if the
number of women were smaller, it would still be practically the same
thing. All it takes is one person with an STD. The answer is not
outlawing sex. The answer is education. If more people simply had the
common sense to use condoms (whether it's with a twenty dollar hooker
or their spouse), that could go a very long way in preventing almost
all of these STDs. It should be perfectly obvious to anyone who has
unprotected sex with anyone else (Wife, husband or perfect stranger)
that there's always a risk involved. If you can't handle getting a
bloody nose, don't stick it out.
>
> Infertility and Prostitution: A Direct Correlation
> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=ccd55c9c.0111020407.646271f0%40posting.google.com
>
>
> Health Effects of Prostitution, Janice G. Raymond
> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=ccd55c9c.01102...@posting.google.com
>
> Men's Infidelity May Up Women's STD Risk in Mexico
> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=ccd55c9c.0109271525.5ca3bd96%40posting.google.com
>
> Prostitution and drug abuse primary transmission of HIV/AIDS in China
> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=91rl1f%242lf%241%40nnrp1.deja.com
>
> ASIA
> Trafficking and Prostitution in Bangladesh: Contradictions in Law and
> Practice, Sigma Huda
> http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/catw/mhvbang.htm
>
> "...a girl may be married off to a total stranger and find herself in
> a brothel the next day. Or she can be trafficked across international
> borders. Girls are trafficked to Pakistan, using all the travel
> routes, namely, air, sea and mostly land routes. In the latter case,
> India
> becomes the transit county, and on many occasions the receiving
> country. Pakistan is both a receiving country and a transit country
> for the Middle East countries, especially The United Arab Emirates and
> Kuwait. Pakistan has visible slave markets where these trafficked
> women are paraded and buyers choose the ones they fancy. The minimum
> price
> is 5,000 Rupees. The fairer, taller, and prettier they are, the more
> desirable they are, the higher the price. The maximum price is put on
> virgins. In Pakistan, the Bangladeshi women and children rate higher
> than those of other countries for the purpose of prostitution and
> sexual slavery. The Sri Lankans and Filipinos rate higher as domestic
> help. It is quite common to find the Pakistani males obtain sexual
> favors from their female household helps with impunity while their
> wives and other family members turn a blind eye. They don’t see
> anything wrong with such activities."
>
> SOUTH AMERICA
> Preventative Action Against Prostitution in Venezuela,
> Zoraida Ramirez Rodriguez
> http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/catw/mhvven.htm
>
> "Data on the current situation of Venezuelan children and women in
> terms of poverty indices show that 71 percent of this population is
> living in poverty at the national level, 87 percent in rural areas,
> and 69 percent in urban areas."
>
> MIDDLE EAST
> Iranian Women and Girls: Victims of Exploitation and Violence, Sarvnaz
> Chitsaz and Soona Samsami
> http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/catw/mhviran.htm
>
> Rampant Prostitution
>
> "The social environment imbedded in the misogynous views, laws and
> policies of the fundamentalist regime naturally spawns corruption,
> making it increasingly difficult for women to survive. Women bear the
> brunt of the economic difficulties and social barriers and
> restrictions. Large numbers of deprived women have been forced into
> prostitution or become addicted to drugs. Meanwhile, the clerical
> regime, touting Islam, claims to accord "divine respect" to women.
>
> "It is appalling. Never has prostitution been so rampant. But
> everything is done behind the veil," Mahin, a 47-year old female
> Iranian jurist purged by the mullahs, told Helen Kami, the French
> journalist for Elle magazine who visited Iran in January 1997. Kami
> writes: "Prostitutes regularly roam Gandhi Street in north Tehran. At
> 5 p.m., we go to Istanbuli Street, also in north Tehran. The cab
> drivers, looking for wealthy or foreign patrons, are driving slowly.
> In exchange for only $1 (500 Tomans), they can provide you with girls,
> alcoholic beverages, heroin and hashish."
>
> Many more of the social consequences of the mullahs' rule date
> back to the destructive, meaningless Iran-Iraq war, dragged on by
> Khomeini's regime for eight years. In this case, too, women and
> children suffered most. Since it was very difficult for a widow to
> provide for
> herself and raise a family in Iran's highly patriarchal society,
> multitudes turned to prostitution as the only means of survival.
> According to the Associated Press of July 21, 1989, the arrest of a
> war
> widow for prostitution touched off a national scandal, because the
> woman
> had prostituted herself as a last resort to feed her family.
>
> Ressalat, a state-controlled newspaper, reported on July 3,
> 1991: "Three large brothels were discovered and shut down in Tehran in
> the past month alone. Thirty-eight women were arrested. Most of the
> arrested women said during interrogation that they had turned to
> prostitution as a result of poverty."
>
> Unemployment and skyrocketing prices make it impossible for millions
> of Iranians to get married and raise a family. At a seminar on the
> difficulties of getting married, Ayatollah Haeri Shirazi proposed in
> January 1997 that authorities promote an unofficial, temporary
> marriage called sigheh, that can last less than 24 hours and be
> repeated
> as many times as desired. This form of exploitation of women has
> become
> very widespread, and legitimizes sexual relations with very young
> girls.
> Quoting Mahin, the Iranian jurist, the Elle magazine reporter wrote in
> January 1997 about the life of a 9-year-old girl whose destitute
> parents arranged for her to be a sigheh. The man visits his
> temporary "wife" every weekend at her father's house, for which
> privilege he pays her father about $12 per visit.
>
> Not surprisingly, AIDS is spreading in Iran at an alarming rate.
> Despite the serious health and social problems this poses, little is
> being done to address the crisis."
>
> AFRICA
> Prostitution in Mali, Fatoumata Sire Diakite
> http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/catw/mhvmali.htm
>
> "Very often they are beaten, and not paid. When they are paid, the
> money is often taken away from them. Very often these women in
> prostitution are under the control of pimps, who are men and women.
> Regardless of the circumstances, these girls and women in prostitution
> are usually very exploited. "
>
> PHILIPPINES
> Blazing Trails, Confronting Challenges: The Sexual Exploitation of
> Women and Girls in the Philippines, Aida F. Santos
> http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/catw/mhvbt.htm
>
> "The problems faced by women and girls in prostitution can be summed
> up in four major categories: problems related to health; the law or
> the
> legal system; services; and violence against women" (CATW, April
> 1997).
>
> Problems Related to Health
> · Lack of comprehensive health services, and not just on sexual
> health.
> · Women's lack of knowledge of health issues, fear of doctors or
> medical professionals, and useless or risky health practices.
> · Drug use and risk from drugged clients.
> · Expensive and compulsory check-ups for issuance of health
> certificates.
> · Compulsory HIV tests and the lack of pre-test and post-test
> counseling, as well as the violation of confidentiality (publicly
> announced results) or no results given.
> · Lack of funds for hospitalization and health emergencies.
> · Need for AIDS or other reproductive health education.
> · Forced intake of contraceptive pills and unsafe abortions.
> · The lack of privacy for health checks (e.g., in Cebu City, the pap
> smear test was being conducted in a public market; in some Social
> Hygiene Clinics, waiting patients could actually see the test being
> done on half naked women).
>
> Problems Related to the Law or the Legal System
>
> · Abusive, discriminatory conduct of raids, including arrests,
> maltreatment during raids or while in custody, extortion for release.
> · Women held in debt bondage.
> · Restriction of movement.
> · Anti-vagrancy laws are unconstitutional, i.e. they violate equal
> protection and are classist and sexist in their enforcement.
>
> Problems Related to Services
>
> · Lack of education, especially in the areas of literacy, rights
> awareness, and peer education.
> · Women have the status of criminals.
> · Inadequate support systems in the areas of counseling and legal
> assistance, as well as child care.
> · The need for skills development, such as organizational and
> management skills, leadership, negotiation and documentation.
>
> Problems Related to Violence Against Women
>
> · Trafficking in women by syndicates that practice active, deceptive
> recruitment.
> · Economic abuse, i.e. no work, no food and poverty.
> · A high rate of rape.
> · Domestic violence.
> · Violence caused by barangay (village) officials (fees, competition,
> harassment).
> · Harmful physical, emotional, and psychological effects on the women.
> · The "salvaging" or summary execution, especially of sick
> women.
>
> Trafficking of Children in Cambodia, Vietnam, and Cuba
> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=8sngnv$f77$1...@nnrp1.deja.com
>
> 29 Important Facts about Prostitution
> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=8svk2l$ih4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com
>
> Prostitution - A Modern Form of Slavery, Dorchen Leidholdt
> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=9da7u...@drn.newsguy.com
>
> Prostitution is intrinsically abusive
> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=8sjjun$94u$1...@nnrp1.deja.com
>
> HTH.
>
> - Chive
>
> Science is not belief, but the will to find out.
Confused
<snip>
> >Consensual sex (between adults) should be legal sex, period.
>
> {Parg} It already is. What is not legal is a contract based on sex.
And why is it not legal? Are there any constitutional grounds for
this to be a criminal action?
> >
> > On a social level, I won't vote for anyone who has a record of>denying people
> their basic rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of
> >happiness. It's funny that feminists are all for women's rights until
> >it comes to her right to choose what to do with her sexual organs.
> >
> {Parg} You still don't seem to understand my position. I'm all for the
> de-criminalization of prostitution as long as my tax dollars are not helping to
> pay for your blow job.
Point taken. But it shoulda never been "criminalized" in the first
place. And how exactly are YOUR tax dollars paying for anyone's
blowjob? This I gotta hear. Your tax dollars are already being
squandered in ways that you can't even possibly imagine. AFAIC, I
don't give a shit where my tax dollars go. I'd rather they not go
anywhere other than in my own pocket. But as long as they're being
taken from me, I have no control over where they go. My tax dollars
are already being used to support things which I abhor. If I think
they're just gonna stop doing it because I throw a little shit fit
about it, I'd be deluding myself. Perhaps if I threw enough of a fit
and really kicked up some dust, they might consider renaming the
allocation....and then continuing on their original course.
Sky King
@aol.com says...
have sex with me I can get an annulment because society has determined
that sex if part of the marriage contract. Got you once
again.......BITCH. chuckle
sky
> And why is it not legal? Are there any constitutional grounds for
> this to be a criminal action?
>
> > >
> > > On a social level, I won't vote for anyone who has a record of>denying people
> > their basic rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of
> > >happiness. It's funny that feminists are all for women's rights until
> > >it comes to her right to choose what to do with her sexual organs.
> > >
> > {Parg} You still don't seem to understand my position. I'm all for the
> > de-criminalization of prostitution as long as my tax dollars are not helping to
> > pay for your blow job.
>
And we don't want our tax dollars supporting single moms. We don't want
to support her fucking. sky
Parg2000
>Message-id: <d6be0715.0111...@posting.google.com>
{Parg} Yes. The Tenth Amendment, giving all other power to the states. In
almost every state, prostitution has been held to be illegal.
>
>> > On a social level, I won't vote for anyone who has a record of>denying
>people>> their basic rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of >happiness.
It's funny that feminists are all for women's rights until
>> >it comes to her right to choose what to do with her sexual organs.
>> >
>> {Parg} You still don't seem to understand my position. I'm all for the
de-criminalization of prostitution as long as my tax dollars are not
>helping to> pay for your blow job.
>
> Point taken. But it shoulda never been "criminalized" in the first>place.
{Parg} Don't blame ME for that. Keep in mind that prostitution was already
against the law before women could vote. <G>
And how exactly are YOUR tax dollars paying for anyone's>blowjob? This I gotta
hear. Your tax dollars are already being
>squandered in ways that you can't even possibly imagine. AFAIC, I
>don't give a shit where my tax dollars go. I'd rather they not go
>anywhere other than in my own pocket. But as long as they're being
>taken from me, I have no control over where they go. My tax dollars
>are already being used to support things which I abhor. If I think
>they're just gonna stop doing it because I throw a little shit fit
>about it, I'd be deluding myself. Perhaps if I threw enough of a fit
>and really kicked up some dust, they might consider renaming the
>allocation....and then continuing on their original course.
>
{Parg} Well, I can vote to either punish JOHNS to limit the market for
prostitution or I can vote for those who will make sure my dollars aren't going
to the health of hookers to serve Johns. In that regard, I have a vote and a
"say" in where that portion of my tax dollars go. If punishing the johns gets
rid of the behavior, then we don't have to tax citizens for the harms caused by
it.
>
>
>
>
>
Confused
So you'd be fine with it if your state outlawed your only way of
making a living?
>
> >
> >> > On a social level, I won't vote for anyone who has a record of>denying
> >people>> their basic rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of >happiness.
> It's funny that feminists are all for women's rights until
> >> >it comes to her right to choose what to do with her sexual organs.
> >> >
> >> {Parg} You still don't seem to understand my position. I'm all for the
> de-criminalization of prostitution as long as my tax dollars are not
> >helping to> pay for your blow job.
> >
> > Point taken. But it shoulda never been "criminalized" in the first>place.
>
> {Parg} Don't blame ME for that. Keep in mind that prostitution was already
> against the law before women could vote. <G>
Just because men made the laws, doesn't mean that similar mentalities
weren't at work. I would never claim that a man is incapable of making
a stupid law. It happens quite often. What I'm saying is that if a law
is clearly stupid and was clearly the result of politicians pandering
to the whims of religious freaks (Which the church and the state are
*supposed* to be seperate entities), people should have the common
sense to get rid of that law. Look at it this way. If they can outlaw
sex that's perfectly legal under all circumstances except one, they
can outlaw anything. Eventually, they may get around to something you
do care about.
>
> And how exactly are YOUR tax dollars paying for anyone's>blowjob? This I gotta
> hear. Your tax dollars are already being
> >squandered in ways that you can't even possibly imagine. AFAIC, I
> >don't give a shit where my tax dollars go. I'd rather they not go
> >anywhere other than in my own pocket. But as long as they're being
> >taken from me, I have no control over where they go. My tax dollars
> >are already being used to support things which I abhor. If I think
> >they're just gonna stop doing it because I throw a little shit fit
> >about it, I'd be deluding myself. Perhaps if I threw enough of a fit
> >and really kicked up some dust, they might consider renaming the
> >allocation....and then continuing on their original course.
> >
> {Parg} Well, I can vote to either punish JOHNS to limit the market for
> prostitution or I can vote for those who will make sure my dollars aren't going
> to the health of hookers to serve Johns. In that regard, I have a vote and a
> "say" in where that portion of my tax dollars go. If punishing the johns gets
> rid of the behavior, then we don't have to tax citizens for the harms caused by
> it.
I take issue with your argument here on multiple levels. First, let
me see if I understand you correctly. Arresting and "punishing"
(Though punishing them for what, we just can't be certain) the johns
might actually entail the loss of productive members of society. So,
you'd rather have your money spent on harrassing and jailing these
people than on the healthcare of the very people you claim to be
standing up for? So, look at it this way. A john is arrested and
possibly his wife finds out and he's ruined (Maybe he even loses his
job). He possibly goes to jail (Where your tax dollars will cover all
of his expenses and he'll have ne need to even work). Yeah, that's
brilliant. Then, maybe he'll come out of jail, find that his life has
gone to shit and perhaps turn to crime. Maybe he'll rob a store or
turn to drugs. If he does and gets caught, your tax dollars will be
supporting his every need for years to come.
Meanwhile, there will be plenty of other johns that they didn't catch
taking his place. The ones who don't have any lives to ruin won't
learn anything from the experience of being busted except to be more
careful the next time. As long as the need exists, you will never get
rid of the "behavior". The "behavior" is natural male behavior. It has
never changed throughout history and it never will. Do you grasp that
concept? It is *natural* for the male of our species to seek out sex
any way he can get it with a minimal risk to life and limb. We crave
it, hunger for it. It is as basic to our survival as food. This is not
a learned behavior that can be unlearned. This is not an "addiction".
It's nature. In at least the first three decades of the typical male's
life, every action we take ends at one thing. The desire for sex. I
don't really expect a woman to understand this. I really can't say
that the female desire for sex is any less strong than the male's. I
can only asume it is.
And BTW, how do you feel about your tax dollars going to support
irresponsible parents (Men *and* women) who intentionally conceived
and had child after child, knowing full well they had no financial
means of their own of raising and supporting these kids? How do you
feel about these slobs sitting back on their asses and collecting your
tax dollars for doing nothing more than procreating? Where do you
think all this money goes? Do they better themselves and use the money
for the kids? Not a chance. Most of it goes for alcohol and drugs. And
even if it did go to support the kids, it would still be an outrage
because these bums could go out and support themselves if they had an
ounce of ambition. Seems to me that's a far greater problem than a few
prostitutes and their "johns". What are you doing to ensure that these
people can't abuse the system? Seeing as to how you're so damned
concerned about where your money is going, you should be furious. How
do you feel about your tax dollars going straight into the pockets of
corrupt politicians who steal them with impunity (Barring some media
scandal)? It's happening. Right now. How do you feel about your tax
money going to provide health care for ex-smokers who now have cancer?
What are you doing about it? Absolutely nothing, except whining and
complaining about how prostitutes and men are stealing all your tax
money. Pathetic. What a twisted mind you have.
How do you feel about all these men who beat the shit out of their
wives and kids and are never punished because the cops are too busy
chasing hookers, johns and petty drug dealers? Wouldn't you rather see
these animals who physically abuse their families in prison than the
guy who is just looking for a little sex? I know I would. These are
the real criminals. I don't hate women. Do I "objectify" them? Maybe
to an extent. But at least the object I see them as is an object
worthy of my worship, rather than as a target for my fists. At the
same time, you may ask: Do I see women as people? Of course I do.
There is simply no reason why a woman can't be sexy and even what is
termed as "sleazy" and still have a mind of her own and be respected
by people of both sexes. Only in our warped society have we built such
a phobia around a simple bodily function such as sex. The barrier
exists only in our minds. Women can have "equal" rights to men. But
before that can happen, they have to be able to do anything a man can
do and not be penalized for it. That means she should be allowed to
sleep with whom ever she damn well pleases, as often as she pleases
and not be demonized for it. If feminism were what it is supposed to
be, I'd be all for it. But it's not. It has become a crusade to berate
and destroy all that is male.
Here is what I have to say. I respect the woman who will say to me:
"I'm not inferior to you, but I'm not better than you either." That's
equality. Without balance, there will never be real peace between the
sexes.
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
Confused
So you'd be fine with it if your state outlawed your only way of
making a living?
>
> >
> >> > On a social level, I won't vote for anyone who has a record of>denying
> >people>> their basic rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of >happiness.
> It's funny that feminists are all for women's rights until
> >> >it comes to her right to choose what to do with her sexual organs.
> >> >
> >> {Parg} You still don't seem to understand my position. I'm all for the
> de-criminalization of prostitution as long as my tax dollars are not
> >helping to> pay for your blow job.
> >
> > Point taken. But it shoulda never been "criminalized" in the first>place.
>
> {Parg} Don't blame ME for that. Keep in mind that prostitution was already
> against the law before women could vote. <G>
Just because men made the laws, doesn't mean that similar mentalities
weren't at work. I would never claim that a man is incapable of making
a stupid law. It happens quite often. What I'm saying is that if a law
is clearly stupid and was clearly the result of politicians pandering
to the whims of religious freaks (Which the church and the state are
*supposed* to be seperate entities), people should have the common
sense to get rid of that law. Look at it this way. If they can outlaw
sex that's perfectly legal under all circumstances except one, they
can outlaw anything. Eventually, they may get around to something you
do care about.
>
> And how exactly are YOUR tax dollars paying for anyone's>blowjob? This I gotta
> hear. Your tax dollars are already being
> >squandered in ways that you can't even possibly imagine. AFAIC, I
> >don't give a shit where my tax dollars go. I'd rather they not go
> >anywhere other than in my own pocket. But as long as they're being
> >taken from me, I have no control over where they go. My tax dollars
> >are already being used to support things which I abhor. If I think
> >they're just gonna stop doing it because I throw a little shit fit
> >about it, I'd be deluding myself. Perhaps if I threw enough of a fit
> >and really kicked up some dust, they might consider renaming the
> >allocation....and then continuing on their original course.
> >
> {Parg} Well, I can vote to either punish JOHNS to limit the market for
> prostitution or I can vote for those who will make sure my dollars aren't going
> to the health of hookers to serve Johns. In that regard, I have a vote and a
> "say" in where that portion of my tax dollars go. If punishing the johns gets
> rid of the behavior, then we don't have to tax citizens for the harms caused by
> it.
I take issue with your argument here on multiple levels. First, let
Chive Mynde
> Here is what I have to say. I respect the woman who will say to me:
> "I'm not inferior to you, but I'm not better than you either."
Actually, all feminist women are better than you and the anti-feminists.
That's just a fact of life.
Get used to it.