> >Subject: Re: 29 Important Facts about Prostitution > >From: ta2e...@worldnet.att.net (MH) > >Date: 11/1/01 6:00 AM Pacific Standard Time > >Message-id: <gAcE7.167242$W8.5104...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
> >><cut> > >>{Parg} Smoking and drinking isn't an action purpetrated by one social > >group > >>upon another.
> > Neither is prostitution.
> {Parg} Sure it is. Men are generic buyers, women generic sellers.
> > My remedy is two fold; on a personal level, I don't befriend >in any way > those who objectify women. On a social level, I vote for those>who >seek an > end of objectification.
> > Tell us, Parg. Except for the exchange of > >money afterwards, what makes prostitution > >different from women and men shacking up > >together for a one-night stand? Or is THAT > >what bothers you - that other women are > >getting more sex than you?
> {Parg} Prostitution doesn't pose any problem for me, on a personal level, > since I pack my own chute. On a societal level, the oppression of women is a > concern to me. On a denigration alone level, I need not comment; your > remarks just serve to make you look silly.
> >You don't get to decide if these women feel denigrated or are denigrated.
YOU can give YOUR opinion but you do not speak for others, although you try. sky
> >> Oh, ok. We should arrest every sexually frustrated man in America for > >> doing nothing more than seeking out sexual relief.
> >Sexual "relief" does not entail soliciting illegal prostitution, which > >in the majority of cases, harms women, supports drug habits, and > >increases STDs in the general population.
> Let's see: If a woman picks up a man in a > hotel bar and has sex with him it is recreation, > but if she charges for it suddenly "harms women". > Does the exchange of money make the process > THAT different?
And what's really odd is that at the end of the whole thing, the woman has the money and the man basically has nothing but a smile on his face. Looks like to me the woman comes out ahead. You know you'll never get a real answer for that question. They always either shut up or change the subject when you ask questions they have no answers for.
>Subject: Re: 29 Important Facts about Prostitution >From: "Michael Snyder" msny...@redhat.com >Date: 11/1/01 7:02 AM Pacific Standard Time >Message-id: <bvdE7.117$e6.158...@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net>
>MH wrote in message ... >>In article <20011101002847.22955.00000...@mb-fq.news.cs.com>, >parg2...@cs.com (Parg2000) wrote:
>>><cut> >>>{Parg} Smoking and drinking isn't an action purpetrated by one social >group >>>upon another.
>> Neither is prostitution.
>> My remedy is two fold; on a personal level, I don't befriend >>>in any way those who objectify women. On a social level, I vote for those >who >>>seek an end of objectification.
>> Tell us, Parg. Except for the exchange of >>money afterwards, what makes prostitution >>different from women and men shacking up >>together for a one-night stand? Or is THAT >>what bothers you - that other women are >>getting more sex than you?
>No -- what bothers her is that _men_ are getting sex.
{Parg} I actually don' t care one way or the other about "men getting sex" or not getting sex. My concerns are much more selfish than that. <G> My concerns are that 1) victims aren't created by creating a market for prostitution, and 2) that my tax dollars aren't spent in supporting prostitution. <G>
In article <20011101222320.15636.00001...@mb-me.news.cs.com>, parg2...@cs.com (Parg2000) wrote: >>Subject: Re: 29 Important Facts about Prostitution >>From: "Michael Snyder" msny...@redhat.com >>Date: 11/1/01 7:02 AM Pacific Standard Time >>Message-id: <bvdE7.117$e6.158...@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net>
>>MH wrote in message ... >>>In article <20011101002847.22955.00000...@mb-fq.news.cs.com>, >>parg2...@cs.com (Parg2000) wrote:
>>>><cut> >>>>{Parg} Smoking and drinking isn't an action purpetrated by one social >>group >>>>upon another.
>>> Neither is prostitution.
>>> My remedy is two fold; on a personal level, I don't befriend >>>>in any way those who objectify women. On a social level, I vote for those >>who >>>>seek an end of objectification.
>>> Tell us, Parg. Except for the exchange of >>>money afterwards, what makes prostitution >>>different from women and men shacking up >>>together for a one-night stand? Or is THAT >>>what bothers you - that other women are >>>getting more sex than you?
>>No -- what bothers her is that _men_ are getting sex.
>{Parg} I actually don' t care one way or the other about "men getting sex" or >not getting sex. My concerns are much more selfish than that. <G> My >concerns are that 1) victims aren't created by creating a market for >prostitution, and 2) that my tax dollars aren't spent in supporting >prostitution. <G>
What a stupid post. No one NEEDS to "create" a market for prostitution. It is already there, and has always been there. They don't call it "the world's oldest profession" for nothing.
Secondly, it is funny that Parg is concerned about her tax dollars "supporting" prostitution, and yet is silent about her tax dollars going to stamp out prostitution.
DoubleThink is alive and well on Planet Parg, it seems...............
>Subject: Re: 29 Important Facts about Prostitution >From: ta2e...@worldnet.att.net (MH__) >Date: 11/1/01 7:34 PM Pacific Standard Time >Message-id: <CvoE7.169254$W8.5173...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
>In article <20011101222320.15636.00001...@mb-me.news.cs.com>, parg2...@cs.com >(Parg2000) wrote: >>>Subject: Re: 29 Important Facts about Prostitution >>>From: "Michael Snyder" msny...@redhat.com >>>Date: 11/1/01 7:02 AM Pacific Standard Time >>>Message-id: <bvdE7.117$e6.158...@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net>
>>>MH wrote in message ... >>>>In article <20011101002847.22955.00000...@mb-fq.news.cs.com>, >>>parg2...@cs.com (Parg2000) wrote:
>>>>><cut> >>>>>{Parg} Smoking and drinking isn't an action purpetrated by one social >>>group >>>>>upon another.
>>>> Neither is prostitution.
>>>> My remedy is two fold; on a personal level, I don't befriend >>>>>in any way those who objectify women. On a social level, I vote for >those >>>who >>>>>seek an end of objectification.
>>>> Tell us, Parg. Except for the exchange of >>>>money afterwards, what makes prostitution >>>>different from women and men shacking up >>>>together for a one-night stand? Or is THAT >>>>what bothers you - that other women are >>>>getting more sex than you?
>>>No -- what bothers her is that _men_ are getting sex.
>>{Parg} I actually don' t care one way or the other about "men getting sex" >or >>not getting sex. My concerns are much more selfish than that. <G> My >>concerns are that 1) victims aren't created by creating a market for >>prostitution, and 2) that my tax dollars aren't spent in supporting >>prostitution. <G>
> What a stupid post. No one NEEDS to "create"a market for prostitution. It
is already there, and
>has always been there.
{Parg} In a rape-culture like the one we have, where men EXPECT to have their sexual needs met by 'buying' or 'renting' the bodies of human beings, there is indeed a market for prostitution. I am questioning the furtherance of that market by making it a noble cause. <G>
They don't call it "the world's
>oldest profession" for nothing.
{Parg} Indeed.
> Secondly, it is funny that Parg is concerned >about her tax dollars "supporting" prostitution,>and yet is silent about her
tax dollars going to>stamp out prostitution.
{Parg} As I've stated, I'd be happy to have prostitution DE-CRIMINALIZED but I do NOT want it LEGALIZED, which is different. When prostitution is legalized we support its presence. Clearly, I do NOT support prostitution, and clearly, I do NOT want my tax dollars supporting it. Is that a bit more clear?
In article <20011102102920.17287.00000...@mb-co.news.cs.com>, parg2...@cs.com (Parg2000) wrote: >>Subject: Re: 29 Important Facts about Prostitution >>From: ta2e...@worldnet.att.net (MH__) >>Date: 11/1/01 7:34 PM Pacific Standard Time >>Message-id: <CvoE7.169254$W8.5173...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
>>In article <20011101222320.15636.00001...@mb-me.news.cs.com>, parg2...@cs.com >>(Parg2000) wrote: >>>>Subject: Re: 29 Important Facts about Prostitution >>>>From: "Michael Snyder" msny...@redhat.com >>>>Date: 11/1/01 7:02 AM Pacific Standard Time >>>>Message-id: <bvdE7.117$e6.158...@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net>
>>>>MH wrote in message ... >>>>>In article <20011101002847.22955.00000...@mb-fq.news.cs.com>, >>>>parg2...@cs.com (Parg2000) wrote:
>>>>>><cut> >>>>>>{Parg} Smoking and drinking isn't an action purpetrated by one social >>>>group >>>>>>upon another.
>>>>> Neither is prostitution.
>>>>> My remedy is two fold; on a personal level, I don't befriend >>>>>>in any way those who objectify women. On a social level, I vote for >>those >>>>who >>>>>>seek an end of objectification.
>>>>> Tell us, Parg. Except for the exchange of >>>>>money afterwards, what makes prostitution >>>>>different from women and men shacking up >>>>>together for a one-night stand? Or is THAT >>>>>what bothers you - that other women are >>>>>getting more sex than you?
>>>>No -- what bothers her is that _men_ are getting sex.
>>>{Parg} I actually don' t care one way or the other about "men getting sex" >>or >>>not getting sex. My concerns are much more selfish than that. <G> My >>>concerns are that 1) victims aren't created by creating a market for >>>prostitution, and 2) that my tax dollars aren't spent in supporting >>>prostitution. <G>
>> What a stupid post. No one NEEDS to "create"a market for prostitution. It >is already there, and >>has always been there.
>{Parg} In a rape-culture like the one we have, where men EXPECT to have their >sexual needs met by 'buying' or 'renting' the bodies of human beings, there is >indeed a market for prostitution.
Are ALL cultures "rape cultures", Parg?
>They don't call it "the world's >>oldest profession" for nothing.
>{Parg} Indeed.
>> Secondly, it is funny that Parg is concerned >>about her tax dollars "supporting" prostitution,>and yet is silent about her >tax dollars going to>stamp out prostitution.
>{Parg} As I've stated, I'd be happy to have prostitution DE-CRIMINALIZED but I >do NOT want it LEGALIZED, which is different.
Do explain.
>When prostitution is legalized we support its presence.
Really. How is failing to arrest a woman for taking money for sex "supporting prostitution"?
>Subject: Re: 29 Important Facts about Prostitution >From: ta2e...@worldnet.att.net (MH__) >Date: 11/2/01 7:43 AM Pacific Standard Time >Message-id: <HazE7.169687$W8.5229...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
>In article <20011102102920.17287.00000...@mb-co.news.cs.com>, parg2...@cs.com >(Parg2000) wrote: >>>Subject: Re: 29 Important Facts about Prostitution >>>From: ta2e...@worldnet.att.net (MH__) >>>Date: 11/1/01 7:34 PM Pacific Standard Time >>>Message-id: <CvoE7.169254$W8.5173...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
>>>In article <20011101222320.15636.00001...@mb-me.news.cs.com>, >parg2...@cs.com >>>(Parg2000) wrote: >>>>>Subject: Re: 29 Important Facts about Prostitution >>>>>From: "Michael Snyder" msny...@redhat.com >>>>>Date: 11/1/01 7:02 AM Pacific Standard Time >>>>>Message-id: <bvdE7.117$e6.158...@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net>
>>>>>MH wrote in message ... >>>>>>In article <20011101002847.22955.00000...@mb-fq.news.cs.com>, >>>>>parg2...@cs.com (Parg2000) wrote:
>>>>>>><cut> >>>>>>>{Parg} Smoking and drinking isn't an action purpetrated by one social >>>>>group >>>>>>>upon another.
>>>>>> Neither is prostitution.
>>>>>> My remedy is two fold; on a personal level, I don't befriend >>>>>>>in any way those who objectify women. On a social level, I vote for >>>those >>>>>who >>>>>>>seek an end of objectification.
>>>>>> Tell us, Parg. Except for the exchange of >>>>>>money afterwards, what makes prostitution >>>>>>different from women and men shacking up >>>>>>together for a one-night stand? Or is THAT >>>>>>what bothers you - that other women are >>>>>>getting more sex than you?
>>>>>No -- what bothers her is that _men_ are getting sex.
>>>>{Parg} I actually don' t care one way or the other about "men getting >sex" >>>or >>>>not getting sex. My concerns are much more selfish than that. <G> My >>>>concerns are that 1) victims aren't created by creating a market for >>>>prostitution, and 2) that my tax dollars aren't spent in supporting >>>>prostitution. <G>
>>> What a stupid post. No one NEEDS to "create"a market for prostitution. >It >>is already there, and >>>has always been there.
>>{Parg} In a rape-culture like the one we have, where men EXPECT to have >their >>sexual needs met by 'buying' or 'renting' the bodies of human beings, there >is >>indeed a market for prostitution.
> Are ALL cultures "rape cultures", Parg?
{Parg} I have not studied "ALL" cultures.
>>They don't call it "the world's >>>oldest profession" for nothing.
>>{Parg} Indeed.
>>> Secondly, it is funny that Parg is concerned about her tax dollars
"supporting" prostitution,>and yet is silent about
>her tax dollars going to>stamp out prostitution.
>>{Parg} As I've stated, I'd be happy to have prostitution DE-CRIMINALIZED >but I >>do NOT want it LEGALIZED, which is different.
> Do explain.
>>When prostitution is legalized we support its presence.
> Really. How is failing to arrest a woman for taking money for sex
In article <20011102112740.17287.00000...@mb-co.news.cs.com>, parg2...@cs.com (Parg2000) wrote: }>Subject: Re: 29 Important Facts about Prostitution }>From: ta2e...@worldnet.att.net (MH__) }>Date: 11/2/01 7:43 AM Pacific Standard Time }>Message-id: <HazE7.169687$W8.5229...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> }> }>In article <20011102102920.17287.00000...@mb-co.news.cs.com>, parg2...@cs.com }>(Parg2000) wrote: }>>>Subject: Re: 29 Important Facts about Prostitution }>>>From: ta2e...@worldnet.att.net (MH__) }>>>Date: 11/1/01 7:34 PM Pacific Standard Time }>>>Message-id: <CvoE7.169254$W8.5173...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> }>>> }>>>In article <20011101222320.15636.00001...@mb-me.news.cs.com>, }>parg2...@cs.com }>>>(Parg2000) wrote: }>>>>>Subject: Re: 29 Important Facts about Prostitution }>>>>>From: "Michael Snyder" msny...@redhat.com }>>>>>Date: 11/1/01 7:02 AM Pacific Standard Time }>>>>>Message-id: <bvdE7.117$e6.158...@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net> }>>>>> }>>>>> }>>>>>MH wrote in message ... }>>>>>>In article <20011101002847.22955.00000...@mb-fq.news.cs.com>, }>>>>>parg2...@cs.com (Parg2000) wrote: }>>>>>> }>>>>>>> }>>>>>>><cut> }>>>>>>>{Parg} Smoking and drinking isn't an action purpetrated by one social }>>>>>group }>>>>>>>upon another. }>>>>>> }>>>>>> }>>>>>> Neither is prostitution. }>>>>>> }>>>>>> }>>>>>> My remedy is two fold; on a personal level, I don't befriend }>>>>>>>in any way those who objectify women. On a social level, I vote for }>>>those }>>>>>who }>>>>>>>seek an end of objectification. }>>>>>> }>>>>>> }>>>>>> Tell us, Parg. Except for the exchange of }>>>>>>money afterwards, what makes prostitution }>>>>>>different from women and men shacking up }>>>>>>together for a one-night stand? Or is THAT }>>>>>>what bothers you - that other women are }>>>>>>getting more sex than you? }>>>>> }>>>>>No -- what bothers her is that _men_ are getting sex. }>>>> }>>>>{Parg} I actually don' t care one way or the other about "men getting }>sex" }>>>or }>>>>not getting sex. My concerns are much more selfish than that. <G> My }>>>>concerns are that 1) victims aren't created by creating a market for }>>>>prostitution, and 2) that my tax dollars aren't spent in supporting }>>>>prostitution. <G> }>>>> }>>>> }>>> What a stupid post. No one NEEDS to "create"a market for prostitution. }>It }>>is already there, and }>>>has always been there. }>> }>>{Parg} In a rape-culture like the one we have, where men EXPECT to have }>their }>>sexual needs met by 'buying' or 'renting' the bodies of human beings, there }>is }>>indeed a market for prostitution. }> }> }> Are ALL cultures "rape cultures", Parg? } }{Parg} I have not studied "ALL" cultures.
Well then tell us what you mean by ours being a "rape culture". That IS what you claimed, as I recall.
}>>They don't call it "the world's }>>>oldest profession" for nothing. }>> }>>{Parg} Indeed. }>>> }>>> Secondly, it is funny that Parg is concerned about her tax dollars }"supporting" prostitution,>and yet is silent about }>her tax dollars going to>stamp out prostitution. }>>> }>>{Parg} As I've stated, I'd be happy to have prostitution DE-CRIMINALIZED }>but I }>>do NOT want it LEGALIZED, which is different. }> }> }> Do explain. }>
What - no reply? Do tell us the difference between decriminalizing and legalizing.
}> }>>When prostitution is legalized we support its presence. }> }> }> Really. How is failing to arrest a woman for taking money for sex }"supporting prostitution"? }> }{Parg} It isn't...that's decriminalization. }
> >Subject: Re: 29 Important Facts about Prostitution > >From: ta2e...@worldnet.att.net (MH__) > >Date: 11/2/01 7:43 AM Pacific Standard Time > >Message-id: <HazE7.169687$W8.5229...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
> >In article <20011102102920.17287.00000...@mb-co.news.cs.com>, parg2...@cs.com > >(Parg2000) wrote: > >>>Subject: Re: 29 Important Facts about Prostitution > >>>From: ta2e...@worldnet.att.net (MH__) > >>>Date: 11/1/01 7:34 PM Pacific Standard Time > >>>Message-id: <CvoE7.169254$W8.5173...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
> >>>In article <20011101222320.15636.00001...@mb-me.news.cs.com>, > >parg2...@cs.com > >>>(Parg2000) wrote: > >>>>>Subject: Re: 29 Important Facts about Prostitution > >>>>>From: "Michael Snyder" msny...@redhat.com > >>>>>Date: 11/1/01 7:02 AM Pacific Standard Time > >>>>>Message-id: <bvdE7.117$e6.158...@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net>
> >>>>>MH wrote in message ... > >>>>>>In article <20011101002847.22955.00000...@mb-fq.news.cs.com>, > >>>>>parg2...@cs.com (Parg2000) wrote:
> >>>>>>><cut> > >>>>>>>{Parg} Smoking and drinking isn't an action purpetrated by one social > >>>>>group > >>>>>>>upon another.
> >>>>>> Neither is prostitution.
> >>>>>> My remedy is two fold; on a personal level, I don't befriend > >>>>>>>in any way those who objectify women. On a social level, I vote for > >>>those > >>>>>who > >>>>>>>seek an end of objectification.
> >>>>>> Tell us, Parg. Except for the exchange of > >>>>>>money afterwards, what makes prostitution > >>>>>>different from women and men shacking up > >>>>>>together for a one-night stand? Or is THAT > >>>>>>what bothers you - that other women are > >>>>>>getting more sex than you?
> >>>>>No -- what bothers her is that _men_ are getting sex.
> >>>>{Parg} I actually don' t care one way or the other about "men getting > >sex" > >>>or > >>>>not getting sex. My concerns are much more selfish than that. <G> My > >>>>concerns are that 1) victims aren't created by creating a market for > >>>>prostitution, and 2) that my tax dollars aren't spent in supporting > >>>>prostitution. <G>
Prostitutes go where he men are. They even did it in the Gold Fields of the old west. The men did not send for them. They went for the MONEY. sky
> >>> What a stupid post. No one NEEDS to "create"a market for prostitution. > >It > >>is already there, and > >>>has always been there.
> >>{Parg} In a rape-culture like the one we have, where men EXPECT to have > >their > >>sexual needs met by 'buying' or 'renting' the bodies of human beings, there > >is > >>indeed a market for prostitution.
> >In a feminist culture where women can do anything they want to do some
choose to suck cocks for money and that kills YOU. In other threads you talk about all the money these ladies make and say its their choice. sky
> >>They don't call it "the world's > >>>oldest profession" for nothing.
> >>{Parg} Indeed.
> >>> Secondly, it is funny that Parg is concerned about her tax dollars > "supporting" prostitution,>and yet is silent about > >her tax dollars going to>stamp out prostitution.
> >>{Parg} As I've stated, I'd be happy to have prostitution DE-CRIMINALIZED > >but I > >>do NOT want it LEGALIZED, which is different.
> > Do explain.
> >>When prostitution is legalized we support its presence.
> > Really. How is failing to arrest a woman for taking money for sex > "supporting prostitution"?
In article <MPG.164cc2d0aa6ca03c989ac6@nntp>, Sky King <m...@home.net> wrote: >In article <20011102112740.17287.00000...@mb-co.news.cs.com>, parg2000
>> >>>>{Parg} I actually don' t care one way or the other about "men getting >> >sex" >> >>>or >> >>>>not getting sex. My concerns are much more selfish than that. <G> My >> >>>>concerns are that 1) victims aren't created by creating a market for >> >>>>prostitution, and 2) that my tax dollars aren't spent in supporting >> >>>>prostitution. <G>
>Prostitutes go where he men are. They even did it in the Gold Fields of >the old west. The men did not send for them. They went for the MONEY. >sky
Someone should tell Parg about "camp followers" the polite term for the hoards of prostitutes who followed armies from battle to battle, offering to "service" the soldiers. For a fee. All victims of male exploitation, I presume she would tell us.
> > >> Oh, ok. We should arrest every sexually frustrated man in America for > > >> doing nothing more than seeking out sexual relief.
> > >Sexual "relief" does not entail soliciting illegal prostitution, which > > >in the majority of cases, harms women, supports drug habits, and > > >increases STDs in the general population.
> > Let's see: If a woman picks up a man in a > > hotel bar and has sex with him it is recreation, > > but if she charges for it suddenly "harms women". > > Does the exchange of money make the process > > THAT different?
> And what's really odd is that at the end of the whole thing, the > woman has the money and the man basically has nothing but a smile on > his face. Looks like to me the woman comes out ahead.
You're an ignorant fool who thinks movies like "Pretty Woman" are r-e-a-l.
> You know you'll > never get a real answer for that question. They always either shut up > or change the subject when you ask questions they have no answers for.
I've given the answer dozens of times. Here it is again, fool:
"...a girl may be married off to a total stranger and find herself in a brothel the next day. Or she can be trafficked across international borders. Girls are trafficked to Pakistan, using all the travel routes, namely, air, sea and mostly land routes. In the latter case, India becomes the transit county, and on many occasions the receiving country. Pakistan is both a receiving country and a transit country for the Middle East countries, especially The United Arab Emirates and Kuwait. Pakistan has visible slave markets where these trafficked women are paraded and buyers choose the ones they fancy. The minimum price is 5,000 Rupees. The fairer, taller, and prettier they are, the more desirable they are, the higher the price. The maximum price is put on virgins. In Pakistan, the Bangladeshi women and children rate higher than those of other countries for the purpose of prostitution and sexual slavery. The Sri Lankans and Filipinos rate higher as domestic help. It is quite common to find the Pakistani males obtain sexual favors from their female household helps with impunity while their wives and other family members turn a blind eye. They don’t see anything wrong with such activities."
"Data on the current situation of Venezuelan children and women in terms of poverty indices show that 71 percent of this population is living in poverty at the national level, 87 percent in rural areas, and 69 percent in urban areas."
"The social environment imbedded in the misogynous views, laws and policies of the fundamentalist regime naturally spawns corruption, making it increasingly difficult for women to survive. Women bear the brunt of the economic difficulties and social barriers and restrictions. Large numbers of deprived women have been forced into prostitution or become addicted to drugs. Meanwhile, the clerical regime, touting Islam, claims to accord "divine respect" to women.
"It is appalling. Never has prostitution been so rampant. But everything is done behind the veil," Mahin, a 47-year old female Iranian jurist purged by the mullahs, told Helen Kami, the French journalist for Elle magazine who visited Iran in January 1997. Kami writes: "Prostitutes regularly roam Gandhi Street in north Tehran. At 5 p.m., we go to Istanbuli Street, also in north Tehran. The cab drivers, looking for wealthy or foreign patrons, are driving slowly. In exchange for only $1 (500 Tomans), they can provide you with girls, alcoholic beverages, heroin and hashish."
Many more of the social consequences of the mullahs' rule date back to the destructive, meaningless Iran-Iraq war, dragged on by Khomeini's regime for eight years. In this case, too, women and children suffered most. Since it was very difficult for a widow to provide for herself and raise a family in Iran's highly patriarchal society, multitudes turned to prostitution as the only means of survival. According to the Associated Press of July 21, 1989, the arrest of a war widow for prostitution touched off a national scandal, because the woman had prostituted herself as a last resort to feed her family.
Ressalat, a state-controlled newspaper, reported on July 3, 1991: "Three large brothels were discovered and shut down in Tehran in the past month alone. Thirty-eight women were arrested. Most of the arrested women said during interrogation that they had turned to prostitution as a result of poverty."
Unemployment and skyrocketing prices make it impossible for millions of Iranians to get married and raise a family. At a seminar on the difficulties of getting married, Ayatollah Haeri Shirazi proposed in January 1997 that authorities promote an unofficial, temporary marriage called sigheh, that can last less than 24 hours and be repeated as many times as desired. This form of exploitation of women has become very widespread, and legitimizes sexual relations with very young girls. Quoting Mahin, the Iranian jurist, the Elle magazine reporter wrote in January 1997 about the life of a 9-year-old girl whose destitute parents arranged for her to be a sigheh. The man visits his temporary "wife" every weekend at her father's house, for which privilege he pays her father about $12 per visit.
Not surprisingly, AIDS is spreading in Iran at an alarming rate. Despite the serious health and social problems this poses, little is being done to address the crisis."
"Very often they are beaten, and not paid. When they are paid, the money is often taken away from them. Very often these women in prostitution are under the control of pimps, who are men and women. Regardless of the circumstances, these girls and women in prostitution are usually very exploited. "
"The problems faced by women and girls in prostitution can be summed up in four major categories: problems related to health; the law or the legal system; services; and violence against women" (CATW, April 1997).
Problems Related to Health · Lack of comprehensive health services, and not just on sexual health. · Women's lack of knowledge of health issues, fear of doctors or medical professionals, and useless or risky health practices. · Drug use and risk from drugged clients. · Expensive and compulsory check-ups for issuance of health certificates. · Compulsory HIV tests and the lack of pre-test and post-test counseling, as well as the violation of confidentiality (publicly announced results) or no results given. · Lack of funds for hospitalization and health emergencies. · Need for AIDS or other reproductive health education. · Forced intake of contraceptive pills and unsafe abortions. · The lack of privacy for health checks (e.g., in Cebu City, the pap smear test was being conducted in a public market; in some Social Hygiene Clinics, waiting patients could actually see the test being done on half naked women).
Problems Related to the Law or the Legal System
· Abusive, discriminatory conduct of raids, including arrests, maltreatment during raids or while in custody, extortion for release. · Women held in debt bondage. · Restriction of movement. · Anti-vagrancy laws are unconstitutional, i.e. they violate equal protection and are classist and sexist in their enforcement.
Problems Related to Services
· Lack of education, especially in the areas of literacy, rights awareness, and peer education. · Women have the status of criminals. · Inadequate support systems in the areas of counseling and legal assistance, as well as child care. · The need for skills development, such as organizational and management skills, leadership, negotiation and documentation.
Problems Related to Violence Against Women
· Trafficking in women by syndicates that practice active, deceptive recruitment. · Economic abuse, i.e. no work, no food and poverty. · A high rate of rape. · Domestic violence. · Violence caused by barangay (village) officials (fees, competition, harassment). · Harmful physical, emotional, and psychological effects on the women. · The "salvaging" or summary execution, especially of sick women.
Trafficking of Children in Cambodia, Vietnam, and Cuba http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=8sngnv$f7...@nnrp1.deja.com
parg2...@cs.com (Parg2000) wrote in message <news:20011101002847.22955.00000919@mb-fq.news.cs.com>... > >Subject: Re: 29 Important Facts about Prostitution > >From: triboli...@aol.com (Confused) > >Date: 10/31/01 9:00 PM Pacific Standard Time > >Message-id: <d6be0715.0110312100.a262...@posting.google.com>
> >> > > >>> Here is one of the important facts about prostitution.
> >> > > >>Here are 29:
> >> > > > So what is your point - that prostitution > >> > > >should be made illegal?
> >> > > {Parg} I don't know chive's position on prostitution but mine is > simple. It > should be de-criminalized with the knowledge that it harms women. It>should > be exposed for the misogyny it is thru education. And women need not>date, > befriend or marry men who use women in such a way. However, if > >prostitution remains a criminal action, we should arrest those who create the > >market, > johns.
> >> > Oh, ok. We should arrest every sexually frustrated man in America for > doing nothing more than seeking out sexual relief.
> {Parg}News Flash: Women were not 'invented' to provide sexual relief to men.
They weren't "invented" to be used as pawns in your crusade against men either. My point was that if they *choose* (There's that complicated word again. You'd better write it down and look it up) to go into a profession that specializes in providing said relief, you've got no business telling them they can't do it. Please do tell me why your right not to be offended by the existence of prostitutes outweighs their right to do what ever they want with other consenting adults behind closed doors?
> >> Sexual "relief" does not entail soliciting illegal prostitution
> > Sexual "relief" can entail anything that you're sexually into.
> {Parg} Not really. If you don't believe me, try reaching your hand into > Charlotte Church's shorts. <G>
That's not what I meant and you know it. You're just sidestepping the issue.
> I say>it now and from now on, prostitution is only illegal because 1) > Religious zealots will stop at nothing to force their way of life on > >everyone and 2)
> {Parg} Actually, many "religious zealots" are the biggest supporters of > prostitution. You see, sexually frustrated people often resort to > prostitution; look at the trouble Tammy Faye Baker's hubby got into, and then > there was that other religious boy, Rev. Jackson. <G>
But they certainly never went on the record in any effort to legalize it. Now did they? My opinion stands.
> Because women realize that if men can buy sex, they'll>lose the only power > that they have over us.
> {Parg} Heck no hon; a woman can hook by one man thru marriage for money or > position, or she can hook thru many men thru prostitution. Het men who want > REGULAR SEX and/or PROGENY are subject to the fact that females control those. > If you don't want women to have that particular power don't date women who will > hold you hostage.
OK, do you Know any? Gee, that's a rare animal. Isn't it?
> >> , which > >> in the majority of cases, harms women
> > Smoking harms people. Should it be illegal?
> <cut> > {Parg} Smoking and drinking isn't an action purpetrated by one social group > upon another.
Ah, but smoking IS. Second-hand smoke remember? And prostitution is NOT an action perpetrated on women by men. These women have minds of their own. They can *choose* not to do it. And if your argument were valid in the least (And it isn't), I would say that the female prostitute is using the man to a far greater degree than the man is using her. Since she's getting paid and I don't know any man that could go indefinitely without sex and remain sane. The male has no choice but to seek out sex. A really attractive proststute could charge almost any amount of money and there would be men willing to pay it.
> My remedy is two fold; on a personal level, I don't befriend > in any way those who objectify women.
You must be a lonely person.
> On a social level, I vote for those who > seek an end of objectification.
On a personal level, I will do everything within my power to discredit those who would tell me what to do with my own genitals. Consensual sex (between adults) should be legal sex, period.
On a social level, I won't vote for anyone who has a record of denying people their basic rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It's funny that feminists are all for women's rights until it comes to her right to choose what to do with her sexual organs.
triboli...@aol.com (Confused) wrote in message <news:d6be0715.0111021556.2a9b590a@posting.google.com>... > On a social level, I won't vote for anyone who has a record of > denying people their basic rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of > happiness.
Oh well. I gues you'll have to vote only for women from now on, eh?
>> On a social level, I won't vote for anyone who has a record of >> denying people their basic rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of >> happiness.
>Oh well. I gues you'll have to vote only for women from >now on, eh?
You mean women who think women do not deserve equal rights, like Phyllis Schlafley?
> In article <MPG.164cc2d0aa6ca03c989ac6@nntp>, Sky King <m...@home.net> wrote: > >In article <20011102112740.17287.00000...@mb-co.news.cs.com>, parg2000
> >> >>>>{Parg} I actually don' t care one way or the other about "men getting > >> >sex" > >> >>>or > >> >>>>not getting sex. My concerns are much more selfish than that. <G> My > >> >>>>concerns are that 1) victims aren't created by creating a market for > >> >>>>prostitution, and 2) that my tax dollars aren't spent in supporting > >> >>>>prostitution. <G>
> >Prostitutes go where he men are. They even did it in the Gold Fields of > >the old west. The men did not send for them. They went for the MONEY. > >sky
> Someone should tell Parg about "camp followers" > the polite term for the hoards of prostitutes who > followed armies from battle to battle, offering to > "service" the soldiers. For a fee. All victims of male > exploitation, I presume she would tell us.
> How do they think the term Hooker came about. It was the name given
to the whores that followed Hooker's Army around. sky
In article <MPG.164dcd865dce6871989ad4@nntp>, Sky King <m...@home.net> wrote: >In article <0AFE7.170109$W8.5258...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, >ta2e...@worldnet.att.net says... >> In article <MPG.164cc2d0aa6ca03c989ac6@nntp>, Sky King <m...@home.net> wrote: >> >In article <20011102112740.17287.00000...@mb-co.news.cs.com>, parg2000
>> >> >>>>{Parg} I actually don' t care one way or the other about "men getting >> >> >sex" >> >> >>>or >> >> >>>>not getting sex. My concerns are much more selfish than that. <G> > My >> >> >>>>concerns are that 1) victims aren't created by creating a market for >> >> >>>>prostitution, and 2) that my tax dollars aren't spent in supporting >> >> >>>>prostitution. <G>
>> >Prostitutes go where he men are. They even did it in the Gold Fields of >> >the old west. The men did not send for them. They went for the MONEY. >> >sky
>> Someone should tell Parg about "camp followers" >> the polite term for the hoards of prostitutes who >> followed armies from battle to battle, offering to >> "service" the soldiers. For a fee. All victims of male >> exploitation, I presume she would tell us.
>> How do they think the term Hooker came about. It was the name given >to the whores that followed Hooker's Army around. sky
Indeed. But these "victims of male stereotypes" have been following armies since the days of the Pharohs and Alexander the Great.
MH__ wrote in message ... >In article <MPG.164dcd865dce6871989ad4@nntp>, Sky King <m...@home.net> wrote: >>In article <0AFE7.170109$W8.5258...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, >>ta2e...@worldnet.att.net says... >>> In article <MPG.164cc2d0aa6ca03c989ac6@nntp>, Sky King <m...@home.net> wrote: >>> >In article <20011102112740.17287.00000...@mb-co.news.cs.com>, parg2000
>>> >> >>>>{Parg} I actually don' t care one way or the other about "men getting >>> >> >sex" >>> >> >>>or >>> >> >>>>not getting sex. My concerns are much more selfish than that. <G> >> My >>> >> >>>>concerns are that 1) victims aren't created by creating a market for >>> >> >>>>prostitution, and 2) that my tax dollars aren't spent in supporting >>> >> >>>>prostitution. <G>
>>> >Prostitutes go where he men are. They even did it in the Gold Fields of >>> >the old west. The men did not send for them. They went for the MONEY. >>> >sky
>>> Someone should tell Parg about "camp followers" >>> the polite term for the hoards of prostitutes who >>> followed armies from battle to battle, offering to >>> "service" the soldiers. For a fee. All victims of male >>> exploitation, I presume she would tell us.
>>> How do they think the term Hooker came about. It was the name given >>to the whores that followed Hooker's Army around. sky
> Indeed. But these "victims of male stereotypes" >have been following armies since the days of the >Pharohs and Alexander the Great.
Interestingly, the same Chive Mynde who started this thread by posting his list of 29 reasons why prostitutes are victims of men, also posted the following less than a year earlier:
chivemy...@hotmail.com wrote: >You believe that most prostitutes are forced by >men to sell their bodies! You believe that all of womens problems are >caused by MEN with COCKS! When, Sandy, will you start taking >responsibility for your actions and start being accountable for your choices?
>The biggest supporters of prostitution are not men, but WOMEN.
It seems that Chive only developed his feminism when he invaded ALT.FEMINISM in April of this year. Before that, his views were almost anti-woman!
Strange coincidence? Or is Chive merely adapting the stance that will get him the most attention here?
> In article <MPG.164dcd865dce6871989ad4@nntp>, Sky King <m...@home.net> wrote: > >In article <0AFE7.170109$W8.5258...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, > >ta2e...@worldnet.att.net says... > >> In article <MPG.164cc2d0aa6ca03c989ac6@nntp>, Sky King <m...@home.net> wrote: > >> >In article <20011102112740.17287.00000...@mb-co.news.cs.com>, parg2000
> >> >> >>>>{Parg} I actually don' t care one way or the other about "men getting > >> >> >sex" > >> >> >>>or > >> >> >>>>not getting sex. My concerns are much more selfish than that. <G> > > My > >> >> >>>>concerns are that 1) victims aren't created by creating a market for > >> >> >>>>prostitution, and 2) that my tax dollars aren't spent in supporting > >> >> >>>>prostitution. <G>
> >> >Prostitutes go where he men are. They even did it in the Gold Fields of > >> >the old west. The men did not send for them. They went for the MONEY. > >> >sky
> >> Someone should tell Parg about "camp followers" > >> the polite term for the hoards of prostitutes who > >> followed armies from battle to battle, offering to > >> "service" the soldiers. For a fee. All victims of male > >> exploitation, I presume she would tell us.
> >> How do they think the term Hooker came about. It was the name given > >to the whores that followed Hooker's Army around. sky
> Indeed. But these "victims of male stereotypes" > have been following armies since the days of the > Pharohs and Alexander the Great.
> Yep and if they didn't there would not be a market for it. Its THEIR
fault but like all fems they never take responsibility for their actions. They MUST blame someone or something.sky
>Subject: Re: 29 Important Facts about Prostitution >From: triboli...@aol.com (Confused) >Date: 11/2/01 3:56 PM Pacific Standard Time >Message-id: <d6be0715.0111021556.2a9b5...@posting.google.com>
>parg2...@cs.com (Parg2000) wrote in message ><news:20011101002847.22955.00000919@mb-fq.news.cs.com>... >> >Subject: Re: 29 Important Facts about Prostitution >> >From: triboli...@aol.com (Confused) >> >Date: 10/31/01 9:00 PM Pacific Standard Time >> >Message-id: <d6be0715.0110312100.a262...@posting.google.com>
>> >> > > >>> Here is one of the important facts about prostitution.
>> >> > > >>Here are 29:
>> >> > > > So what is your point - that prostitution >> >> > > >should be made illegal?
>> >> > > {Parg} I don't know chive's position on prostitution but mine is >> simple. It >> should be de-criminalized with the knowledge that it harms women. >It>should >> be exposed for the misogyny it is thru education. And women need not>date, >> befriend or marry men who use women in such a way. However, if >> >prostitution remains a criminal action, we should arrest those who create >the >> >market, > johns.
>> >> > Oh, ok. We should arrest every sexually frustrated man in America for >> doing nothing more than seeking out sexual relief.
>> {Parg}News Flash: Women were not 'invented' to provide sexual relief to >men.
> They weren't "invented" to be used as pawns in your crusade against >men either. My point was that if they *choose* (There's that >complicated word again. You'd better write it down and look it up) to >go into a profession that specializes in providing said relief, you've >got no business telling them they can't do it.
{Parg} Indeed, which is why it should be DECRIMINALIZED rather than legalized. You see, I don't believe in prostitution, so I won't become one; I won't date or befriend one; I won't marry one, nor would I marry one who uses women in such a manner. AND, I have every right to vote to make very certain my tax dollars don't go to support that which I abhor.
Please do tell me why>your right not to be offended by the existence of prostitutes
>outweighs their right to do what ever they want with other consenting >adults behind closed doors?
{Parg} Did you not here me? I said prostitution should be decriminalized. What that means is that folks shouldn't have the right to lock up poor women who can't earn money any other way. Either that, or the johns should be arrested and not the hookers.
>> >> Sexual "relief" does not entail soliciting illegal prostitution
>> > Sexual "relief" can entail anything that you're sexually into.
{Parg} Did you forget that prostitution is now illegal in most of America? <G>
>> {Parg} Not really. If you don't believe me, try reaching your hand into >> Charlotte Church's shorts. <G>
> That's not what I meant and you know it. You're just sidestepping the >issue.
{Parg} No. I'm very clear about the issue. I don't support prostitution. I DO support not arresting poor women who do risky things for money. AND I don't want MY tax dollars going for your sex life.
>> I say>it now and from now on, prostitution is only illegal because 1)>>
Religious zealots will stop at nothing to force their way of life on
>> >everyone and 2)
>> {Parg} Actually, many "religious zealots" are the biggest supporters of>>
prostitution. You see, sexually frustrated people often resort to prostitution; look at the trouble Tammy Faye Baker's hubby got into, and
>then> there was that other religious boy, Rev. Jackson. <G>
> But they certainly never went on the record in any effort to legalize>it. Now
did they? My opinion stands.
{Parg} There is no reason to legalize it. There are reasons to decriminalize it.
>> Because women realize that if men can buy sex, they'll>lose the only power >> that they have over us.
>> {Parg} Heck no hon; a woman can hook by one man thru marriage for money >or>> position, or she can hook thru many men thru prostitution. Het men who >want>> REGULAR SEX and/or PROGENY are subject to the fact that females control >those. > If you don't want women to have that particular power don't date women who >will> hold you hostage.
> OK, do you Know any? Gee, that's a rare animal. Isn't it?
{Parg} Well, the more women free themselves in a world of misogyny and sexism, the less likely it will become that they will marry or hook for money. IOW, marry a feminst. <G>
>> >> , which >> >> in the majority of cases, harms women
>> > Smoking harms people. Should it be illegal?
>> <cut> >> {Parg} Smoking and drinking isn't an action purpetrated by one social >group >> upon another.
> Ah, but smoking IS. Second-hand smoke remember? And prostitution is >NOT an action perpetrated on women by men. These women have minds of >their own. They can *choose* not to do it. And if your argument were >valid in the least (And it isn't), I would say that the female >prostitute is using the man to a far greater degree than the man is >using her. Since she's getting paid and I don't know any man that >could go indefinitely without sex and remain sane. The male has no >choice but to seek out sex.
{Parg} What makes you imagine...that women have to be responsible for your sex urges. If tomorrow ....all women suddenly said "no", you'd have to resort to your own device.
A really attractive proststute could
>charge almost any amount of money and there would be men willing to >pay it.
{Parg} I agree. So what? What I'm trying to get you to see here is that men are responsible for their own sexual relief. If women want to participate the choice is theirs and if you allow it from your end, so are the terms.
>> My remedy is two fold; on a personal level, I don't befriend>> in any way
those who objectify women.
> You must be a lonely person.
{Parg} Not at all. I'm a well-respected business owner and community leader. I'm a good citizen who has maintained friendships from the play-pen on up. I keep my friends close, and my enemies closer. <G>
>> On a social level, I vote for those who >> seek an end of objectification.
> On a personal level, I will do everything within my power to >discredit those who would tell me what to do with my own genitals.
{Parg} I totally think that's fair, if you're up to it. Your genitals and your vote are your own. My choice of friends, lovers and mates are MY own, as is my vote.
>Consensual sex (between adults) should be legal sex, period.
{Parg} It already is. What is not legal is a contract based on sex.
> On a social level, I won't vote for anyone who has a record of>denying people
their basic rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of
>happiness. It's funny that feminists are all for women's rights until >it comes to her right to choose what to do with her sexual organs.
{Parg} You still don't seem to understand my position. I'm all for the de-criminalization of prostitution as long as my tax dollars are not helping to pay for your blow job.
>Subject: Re: 29 Important Facts about Prostitution >From: ta2e...@worldnett.att.net (MH__) >Date: 11/2/01 9:51 AM Pacific Standard Time >Message-id: <T2BE7.169767$W8.5237...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
>In article <20011102112740.17287.00000...@mb-co.news.cs.com>, parg2...@cs.com >(Parg2000) wrote: >}>Subject: Re: 29 Important Facts about Prostitution >}>From: ta2e...@worldnet.att.net (MH__) >}>Date: 11/2/01 7:43 AM Pacific Standard Time >}>Message-id: <HazE7.169687$W8.5229...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> >}> >}>In article <20011102102920.17287.00000...@mb-co.news.cs.com>, >parg2...@cs.com >}>(Parg2000) wrote: >}>>>Subject: Re: 29 Important Facts about Prostitution >}>>>From: ta2e...@worldnet.att.net (MH__) >}>>>Date: 11/1/01 7:34 PM Pacific Standard Time >}>>>Message-id: <CvoE7.169254$W8.5173...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> >}>>> >}>>>In article <20011101222320.15636.00001...@mb-me.news.cs.com>, >}>parg2...@cs.com >}>>>(Parg2000) wrote: >}>>>>>Subject: Re: 29 Important Facts about Prostitution >}>>>>>From: "Michael Snyder" msny...@redhat.com >}>>>>>Date: 11/1/01 7:02 AM Pacific Standard Time >}>>>>>Message-id: <bvdE7.117$e6.158...@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net> >}>>>>> >}>>>>> >}>>>>>MH wrote in message ... >}>>>>>>In article <20011101002847.22955.00000...@mb-fq.news.cs.com>, >}>>>>>parg2...@cs.com (Parg2000) wrote: >}>>>>>> >}>>>>>>> >}>>>>>>><cut> >}>>>>>>>{Parg} Smoking and drinking isn't an action purpetrated by one >social >}>>>>>group >}>>>>>>>upon another. >}>>>>>> >}>>>>>> >}>>>>>> Neither is prostitution. >}>>>>>> >}>>>>>> >}>>>>>> My remedy is two fold; on a personal level, I don't befriend >}>>>>>>>in any way those who objectify women. On a social level, I vote for >}>>>those >}>>>>>who >}>>>>>>>seek an end of objectification. >}>>>>>> >}>>>>>> >}>>>>>> Tell us, Parg. Except for the exchange of >}>>>>>>money afterwards, what makes prostitution >}>>>>>>different from women and men shacking up >}>>>>>>together for a one-night stand? Or is THAT >}>>>>>>what bothers you - that other women are >}>>>>>>getting more sex than you? >}>>>>> >}>>>>>No -- what bothers her is that _men_ are getting sex. >}>>>> >}>>>>{Parg} I actually don' t care one way or the other about "men getting >}>sex" >}>>>or >}>>>>not getting sex. My concerns are much more selfish than that. <G> My >}>>>>concerns are that 1) victims aren't created by creating a market for >}>>>>prostitution, and 2) that my tax dollars aren't spent in supporting >}>>>>prostitution. <G> >}>>>> >}>>>> >}>>> What a stupid post. No one NEEDS to "create"a market for >prostitution. >}>It >}>>is already there, and >}>>>has always been there. >}>> >}>>{Parg} In a rape-culture like the one we have, where men EXPECT to have >}>their >}>>sexual needs met by 'buying' or 'renting' the bodies of human beings, >there >}>is >}>>indeed a market for prostitution. >}> >}> >}> Are ALL cultures "rape cultures", Parg? >} >}{Parg} I have not studied "ALL" cultures.
> Well then tell us what you mean by ours being >a "rape culture". That IS
what you claimed, as I>recall.
{Parg} Ours is a culture that classifies pornography as either a sport or an entertainment in the newspaper with women being used and men being the user. Walk down certain streets in any big city and you see women for sale per view or per body. It's not something that's egalitarian; it's women for sale, not men. Ours is a culture that entertains rape as a sport. When men finger fuck inflatible dolls at sports events and when men rape girls in frat houses, women have become a consumable item rather than human beings. It just depicts a rape centered society. When men define having a sexual relationship with a woman by overpowering her, or by some notion of penetration as victory, it becomes a rape culture.
>}>>They don't call it "the world's >}>>>oldest profession" for nothing. >}>> >}>>{Parg} Indeed. >}>>> >}>>> Secondly, it is funny that Parg is concerned about her tax
dollars>}"supporting" prostitution,>and yet is silent about
>}>her tax dollars going to>stamp out prostitution. >}>>> >}>>{Parg} As I've stated, I'd be happy to have prostitution DE-CRIMINALIZED >}>but I}>>do NOT want it LEGALIZED, which is different. >}> >}> >}> Do explain. >}>
> What - no reply? Do tell us the difference between >decriminalizing and legalizing.
{Parg} Sure. In legalization, we maintain the possibility of support of prostitution and in de-criminalization, we simply look the other way when it transpires.
>>}> >}>>When prostitution is legalized we support its presence. >}> >}> >}> Really. How is failing to arrest a woman for taking money for
>Subject: Re: 29 Important Facts about Prostitution >From: parg2...@cs.com (Parg2000) >Date: 11/3/2001 7:54 PM Central Standard Time >Message-id: <20011103205441.17559.00001...@mb-cp.news.cs.com>
>>Subject: Re: 29 Important Facts about Prostitution >>From: ta2e...@worldnett.att.net (MH__) >>Date: 11/2/01 9:51 AM Pacific Standard Time >>Message-id: <T2BE7.169767$W8.5237...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
>>In article <20011102112740.17287.00000...@mb-co.news.cs.com>, >parg2...@cs.com >>(Parg2000) wrote: >>}>Subject: Re: 29 Important Facts about Prostitution >>}>From: ta2e...@worldnet.att.net (MH__) >>}>Date: 11/2/01 7:43 AM Pacific Standard Time >>}>Message-id: <HazE7.169687$W8.5229...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> >>}> >>}>In article <20011102102920.17287.00000...@mb-co.news.cs.com>, >>parg2...@cs.com >>}>(Parg2000) wrote: >>}>>>Subject: Re: 29 Important Facts about Prostitution >>}>>>From: ta2e...@worldnet.att.net (MH__) >>}>>>Date: 11/1/01 7:34 PM Pacific Standard Time >>}>>>Message-id: <CvoE7.169254$W8.5173...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> >>}>>> >>}>>>In article <20011101222320.15636.00001...@mb-me.news.cs.com>, >>}>parg2...@cs.com >>}>>>(Parg2000) wrote: >>}>>>>>Subject: Re: 29 Important Facts about Prostitution >>}>>>>>From: "Michael Snyder" msny...@redhat.com >>}>>>>>Date: 11/1/01 7:02 AM Pacific Standard Time >>}>>>>>Message-id: <bvdE7.117$e6.158...@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net> >>}>>>>> >>}>>>>> >>}>>>>>MH wrote in message ... >>}>>>>>>In article <20011101002847.22955.00000...@mb-fq.news.cs.com>, >>}>>>>>parg2...@cs.com (Parg2000) wrote: >>}>>>>>> >>}>>>>>>> >>}>>>>>>><cut> >>}>>>>>>>{Parg} Smoking and drinking isn't an action purpetrated by one >>social >>}>>>>>group >>}>>>>>>>upon another. >>}>>>>>> >>}>>>>>> >>}>>>>>> Neither is prostitution. >>}>>>>>> >>}>>>>>> >>}>>>>>> My remedy is two fold; on a personal level, I don't befriend >>}>>>>>>>in any way those who objectify women. On a social level, I vote for >>}>>>those >>}>>>>>who >>}>>>>>>>seek an end of objectification. >>}>>>>>> >>}>>>>>> >>}>>>>>> Tell us, Parg. Except for the exchange of >>}>>>>>>money afterwards, what makes prostitution >>}>>>>>>different from women and men shacking up >>}>>>>>>together for a one-night stand? Or is THAT >>}>>>>>>what bothers you - that other women are >>}>>>>>>getting more sex than you? >>}>>>>> >>}>>>>>No -- what bothers her is that _men_ are getting sex. >>}>>>> >>}>>>>{Parg} I actually don' t care one way or the other about "men getting >>}>sex" >>}>>>or >>}>>>>not getting sex. My concerns are much more selfish than that. <G> My >>}>>>>concerns are that 1) victims aren't created by creating a market for >>}>>>>prostitution, and 2) that my tax dollars aren't spent in supporting >>}>>>>prostitution. <G> >>}>>>> >>}>>>> >>}>>> What a stupid post. No one NEEDS to "create"a market for >>prostitution. >>}>It >>}>>is already there, and >>}>>>has always been there. >>}>> >>}>>{Parg} In a rape-culture like the one we have, where men EXPECT to have >>}>their >>}>>sexual needs met by 'buying' or 'renting' the bodies of human beings, >>there >>}>is >>}>>indeed a market for prostitution. >>}> >>}> >>}> Are ALL cultures "rape cultures", Parg? >>} >>}{Parg} I have not studied "ALL" cultures.
>> Well then tell us what you mean by ours being >a "rape culture". That >IS >what you claimed, as I>recall.
>{Parg} Ours is a culture that classifies pornography as either a sport or an >entertainment in the newspaper with women being used and men being the user.
Then explain pornography designed for women.
>Walk down certain streets in any big city and you see women for sale per view >or per body.
When I used to live and work in Manhattan (fyi, that is in New York City, not Africa, O geographically-challenged one!), I sometimes saw sex for sale on Seventh Avenue around 42nd Street (fyi, that's around Times Square--the place you see on TV on New Year's Eve, where they drop the glittering ball). That was the only place, and I have been to most of the major cities in the USA. Maybe you are talking about some other country?
>It's not something that's egalitarian;
Who cares? Since when did you care about equality?
>it's women for sale, not men.
Explain pornography designed for women.
Ours
>is a culture that entertains rape as a sport.
Oh yeah? Where? In your imagination? Before you make such foolish claims, Pargie-POOP, you would do well to remember that it was MEN who enacted laws prohibiting rape. Now what?
>When men finger fuck >inflatible >dolls at sports events
Huh?????? What color is the sky in your world?
>and when men rape girls in frat houses,
Where did you get such nonsense? Fantasies in female-oriented pornography?
women have
>become a consumable item rather than human beings.
I don't know anyone who thinks like that. Maybe you are just hanging with the wrong crowd, old girl.
It just depicts a rape
>centered society.
Oh yeah, sure, Pargee-PEW. Our whole society revolves around rape. Rape is the very center of our civilization! Get a fucking clue, you worthless idiot!
>When men define having a sexual relationship with a woman by overpowering >her,
False premise. Next.
>or by some notion of penetration as victory, it becomes a rape culture.
>>}>>They don't call it "the world's >>}>>>oldest profession" for nothing. >>}>> >>}>>{Parg} Indeed. >>}>>> >>}>>> Secondly, it is funny that Parg is concerned about her tax >dollars>}"supporting" prostitution,>and yet is silent about >>}>her tax dollars going to>stamp out prostitution. >>}>>> >>}>>{Parg} As I've stated, I'd be happy to have prostitution DE-CRIMINALIZED >>}>but I}>>do NOT want it LEGALIZED, which is different. >>}> >>}> >>}> Do explain. >>}>
>> What - no reply? Do tell us the difference between >>decriminalizing and legalizing.
>{Parg} Sure. In legalization, we maintain the possibility of support of >prostitution and in de-criminalization, we simply look the other way when it >transpires.
That is a distinction without a difference. Man, you must be hitting that model airplane glue hard lately!
>>>}> >>}>>When prostitution is legalized we support its presence. >>}> >>}> >>}> Really. How is failing to arrest a woman for taking money for >sex>}"supporting prostitution"? >>}> >>}{Parg} It isn't...that's decriminalization. >>}
>> So tell us the difference you claim exists.
>>{Parg} I just did.
Nah, you just offered some words and meaningless attempts at distinctions that do not exist in the real world.
> MH__ wrote in message ... >>In article <MPG.164dcd865dce6871989ad4@nntp>, Sky King <m...@home.net> wrote: >>>In article <0AFE7.170109$W8.5258...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, >>>ta2e...@worldnet.att.net says... >>>> In article <MPG.164cc2d0aa6ca03c989ac6@nntp>, Sky King <m...@home.net> wrote: >>>> >In article <20011102112740.17287.00000...@mb-co.news.cs.com>, parg2000
>>>> >> >>>>{Parg} I actually don' t care one way or the other about "men getting >>>> >> >sex" >>>> >> >>>or >>>> >> >>>>not getting sex. My concerns are much more selfish than that. <G> >>> My >>>> >> >>>>concerns are that 1) victims aren't created by creating a market for >>>> >> >>>>prostitution, and 2) that my tax dollars aren't spent in supporting >>>> >> >>>>prostitution. <G>
>>>> >Prostitutes go where he men are. They even did it in the Gold Fields of >>>> >the old west. The men did not send for them. They went for the MONEY. >>>> >sky
>>>> Someone should tell Parg about "camp followers" >>>> the polite term for the hoards of prostitutes who >>>> followed armies from battle to battle, offering to >>>> "service" the soldiers. For a fee. All victims of male >>>> exploitation, I presume she would tell us.
>>>> How do they think the term Hooker came about. It was the name given >>>to the whores that followed Hooker's Army around. sky
>> Indeed. But these "victims of male stereotypes" >>have been following armies since the days of the >>Pharohs and Alexander the Great.
> Interestingly, the same Chive Mynde who started this thread by > posting his list of 29 reasons why prostitutes are victims of men, > also posted the following less than a year earlier:
> chivemy...@hotmail.com wrote: >>You believe that most prostitutes are forced by >>men to sell their bodies! You believe that all of womens problems are >>caused by MEN with COCKS! When, Sandy, will you start taking >>responsibility for your actions and start being accountable for your choices?
>>The biggest supporters of prostitution are not men, but WOMEN.
> It seems that Chive only developed his feminism when he > invaded ALT.FEMINISM in April of this year. Before that, > his views were almost anti-woman!
> Strange coincidence? Or is Chive merely adapting the stance > that will get him the most attention here?
Michael, I nailed this one some time ago that he was only here to get attention from the uber-fem types, even before this little gem of honesty was discovered. I think he's probably working on getting into someone's pants - he's on the hunt for pussy and doesn't have the imagination to get it any other way than pretending to be the whight knight in armour - otherwise there's no logic to why he's done such an about face...
---------- In article <20011104014443.16299.00001...@mb-mo.aol.com>,
writerma...@aol.com (WriterMan2K) wrote: >>Subject: Re: 29 Important Facts about Prostitution >>From: parg2...@cs.com (Parg2000) >>Date: 11/3/2001 7:54 PM Central Standard Time >>Message-id: <20011103205441.17559.00001...@mb-cp.news.cs.com>
>>{Parg} Ours is a culture that classifies pornography as either a sport or an >>entertainment in the newspaper with women being used and men being the user.
> Then explain pornography designed for women.
In Pargenon's world, women like Susie Bright and others who have taken control of their sexuality and are making money off of it are like the bastard child at a family reunion. Everyone sees it, but no one wants to accept that it is there. It's a fucked-up, 1950's repressed-type thing.
>>Walk down certain streets in any big city and you see women for sale per view >>or per body.
> When I used to live and work in Manhattan (fyi, that is in New York City, not > Africa, O geographically-challenged one!), I sometimes saw sex for sale on > Seventh Avenue around 42nd Street (fyi, that's around Times Square--the place > you see on TV on New Year's Eve, where they drop the glittering ball). That > was the only place, and I have been to most of the major cities in the USA. > Maybe you are talking about some other country?
<chuckle> Hmm. Yeah.. Now that I think of it, even the Combat Zone in Boston is down to one lonely store that sells novelties and joke gifts.
Have you ever listened to the song "Jezebel Boy" by Frank Zappa (off of the album 'Broadway the Hard Way')? - it's one of the best songs written about male prostitution. I guess in Pargenon's world if a boy is selling his body, it's his choice, while a girl who does it is a victim?
>>It's not something that's egalitarian;
> Who cares? Since when did you care about equality?
She doesn't.
>>it's women for sale, not men.
> Explain pornography designed for women.
She won't. You're wasting your breath..
> Ours >>is a culture that entertains rape as a sport.
> Oh yeah? Where? In your imagination? Before you make such foolish claims, > Pargie-POOP, you would do well to remember that it was MEN who enacted laws > prohibiting rape. Now what?
>>When men finger fuck >>inflatible >>dolls at sports events
> Huh?????? What color is the sky in your world?
The meds are wearing off.
>>and when men rape girls in frat houses,
> Where did you get such nonsense? Fantasies in female-oriented pornography?
> women have >>become a consumable item rather than human beings.
> I don't know anyone who thinks like that. Maybe you are just hanging with the > wrong crowd, old girl.
She's jealous cause the younger prettier girls and women can still get the menfolk's attention. That they are more attractive, both physically, and spiritually to men of course makes them 'victims'.
> It just depicts a rape >>centered society.
> Oh yeah, sure, Pargee-PEW. Our whole society revolves around rape. Rape is > the very center of our civilization! Get a fucking clue, you worthless idiot!
>>When men define having a sexual relationship with a woman by overpowering >>her,
> False premise. Next.
Margenon's syndrome..she's trying to change the subject..
>>or by some notion of penetration as victory, it becomes a rape culture.
> You are one disturbed bull dyke.
I don't think she's a bull-dyke. Bull dykes DO admit there's porn for women and are into some of the nastiest shit you've ever seen (I used to go to ManRay alot in my youth - it's a Gay/Lesbian dance club near Boston.. saw some freaky shit there...). Oversized dildoes, anal fisting, double fisting, you name it!
>>>}>>They don't call it "the world's >>>}>>>oldest profession" for nothing. >>>}>> >>>}>>{Parg} Indeed. >>>}>>> >>>}>>> Secondly, it is funny that Parg is concerned about her tax >>dollars>}"supporting" prostitution,>and yet is silent about >>>}>her tax dollars going to>stamp out prostitution. >>>}>>> >>>}>>{Parg} As I've stated, I'd be happy to have prostitution DE-CRIMINALIZED >>>}>but I}>>do NOT want it LEGALIZED, which is different. >>>}> >>>}> >>>}> Do explain. >>>}>
>>> What - no reply? Do tell us the difference between >>>decriminalizing and legalizing.
>>{Parg} Sure. In legalization, we maintain the possibility of support of >>prostitution and in de-criminalization, we simply look the other way when it >>transpires.
> That is a distinction without a difference. Man, you must be hitting that > model airplane glue hard lately!
>>>>}> >>>}>>When prostitution is legalized we support its presence. >>>}> >>>}> >>>}> Really. How is failing to arrest a woman for taking money for >>sex>}"supporting prostitution"? >>>}> >>>}{Parg} It isn't...that's decriminalization. >>>}
>>> So tell us the difference you claim exists.
>>>{Parg} I just did.
> Nah, you just offered some words and meaningless attempts at distinctions that > do not exist in the real world.
Deb Terreson wrote: > "Michael Snyder" <msny...@redhat.com> wrote: >> MH__ wrote in message ... >>> Sky King <m...@home.net> wrote: >>>> ta2e...@worldnet.att.net says... >>>>> Sky King <m...@home.net> wrote: >>>>>> parg2000 >>>>>>>>>>> {Parg} I actually don' t care one way or the other >>>>>>>>>>> about "men getting sex" or not getting sex. My >>>>>>>>>>> concerns are much more selfish than that. <G> My >>>>>>>>>>> concerns are that 1) victims aren't created by >>>>>>>>>>> creating a market for prostitution, and 2) that my >>>>>>>>>>> tax dollars aren't spent in supporting prostitution. >>>>>>>>>>> <G> >>>>>> Prostitutes go where he men are. They even did it in the >>>>>> Gold Fields of the old west. The men did not send for >>>>>> them. They went for the MONEY. sky >>>>> Someone should tell Parg about "camp followers" the polite >>>>> term for the hoards of prostitutes who followed armies >>>>> from battle to battle, offering to "service" the soldiers. >>>>> For a fee. All victims of male exploitation, I presume she >>>>> would tell us. >>>>> How do they think the term Hooker came about. It was the >>>>> name given to the whores that followed Hooker's Army >>>>> around. sky >>> Indeed. But these "victims of male stereotypes" have been >>> following armies since the days of the Pharohs and Alexander >>> the Great. >> Interestingly, the same Chive Mynde who started this thread >> by posting his list of 29 reasons why prostitutes are victims >> of men, also posted the following less than a year earlier: >> chivemy...@hotmail.com wrote: >>> You believe that most prostitutes are forced by men to sell >>> their bodies! You believe that all of womens problems are >>> caused by MEN with COCKS! When, Sandy, will you start taking >>> responsibility for your actions and start being accountable >>> for your choices? >>> The biggest supporters of prostitution are not men, but >>> WOMEN. >> It seems that Chive only developed his feminism when he >> invaded ALT.FEMINISM in April of this year. Before that, his >> views were almost anti-woman! >> Strange coincidence? Or is Chive merely adapting the stance >> that will get him the most attention here? > Michael, I nailed this one some time ago that he was only here > to get attention from the uber-fem types, even before this > little gem of honesty was discovered. I think he's probably > working on getting into someone's pants - he's on the hunt for > pussy and doesn't have the imagination to get it any other way > than pretending to be the whight knight in armour - otherwise > there's no logic to why he's done such an about face...
Indeed, Deb. I figured that too -- in fact, check this out:
>-- on Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:09:13 -0400, Simon Sezz <s...@net.com> said: > If people read the FAQs for this group, they would know why men post > here. > Simon
. WHY ARE THERE SO MANY MEN POSTING TO THIS GROUP?
It is estimated that 90% of the people of Usenet are male. It is not surprising, then, that a lot of men would be found on any one particular group. In an informal survey of four days' traffic conducted in November 1993, it was found that men were responsible for 70% of alt.feminism's articles. So, while this group has a majority of men, the percentage of women is high above average.
Add to that the fact that many men are sympathetic to feminism, and the fact that many anti-feminists are men, and you get a lot of men on alt.feminism.
And John Blackman points out that "it's a great place to meet chicks."
- Chive
-- Posted via nooz.net - is this thing working? --
>> MH__ wrote in message ... >>>In article <MPG.164dcd865dce6871989ad4@nntp>, Sky King <m...@home.net> wrote: >>>>In article <0AFE7.170109$W8.5258...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, >>>>ta2e...@worldnet.att.net says... >>>>> In article <MPG.164cc2d0aa6ca03c989ac6@nntp>, Sky King <m...@home.net> wrote: >>>>> >In article <20011102112740.17287.00000...@mb-co.news.cs.com>, parg2000
>>>>> >> >>>>{Parg} I actually don' t care one way or the other about "men >getting >>>>> >> >sex" >>>>> >> >>>or >>>>> >> >>>>not getting sex. My concerns are much more selfish than that. <G> >>>> My >>>>> >> >>>>concerns are that 1) victims aren't created by creating a market for >>>>> >> >>>>prostitution, and 2) that my tax dollars aren't spent in supporting >>>>> >> >>>>prostitution. <G>
>>>>> >Prostitutes go where he men are. They even did it in the Gold Fields of >>>>> >the old west. The men did not send for them. They went for the MONEY. >>>>> >sky
>>>>> Someone should tell Parg about "camp followers" >>>>> the polite term for the hoards of prostitutes who >>>>> followed armies from battle to battle, offering to >>>>> "service" the soldiers. For a fee. All victims of male >>>>> exploitation, I presume she would tell us.
>>>>> How do they think the term Hooker came about. It was the name given >>>>to the whores that followed Hooker's Army around. sky
>>> Indeed. But these "victims of male stereotypes" >>>have been following armies since the days of the >>>Pharohs and Alexander the Great.
>> Interestingly, the same Chive Mynde who started this thread by >> posting his list of 29 reasons why prostitutes are victims of men, >> also posted the following less than a year earlier:
>> chivemy...@hotmail.com wrote: >>>You believe that most prostitutes are forced by >>>men to sell their bodies! You believe that all of womens problems are >>>caused by MEN with COCKS! When, Sandy, will you start taking >>>responsibility for your actions and start being accountable for your choices?
>>>The biggest supporters of prostitution are not men, but WOMEN.
>> It seems that Chive only developed his feminism when he >> invaded ALT.FEMINISM in April of this year. Before that, >> his views were almost anti-woman!
>> Strange coincidence? Or is Chive merely adapting the stance >> that will get him the most attention here?
>Michael, I nailed this one some time ago that he was only here to get >attention from the uber-fem types, even before this little gem of honesty >was discovered. I think he's probably working on getting into someone's >pants - he's on the hunt for pussy and doesn't have the imagination to get >it any other way than pretending to be the whight knight in armour - >otherwise there's no logic to why he's done such an about face...
Oh, no no, my theory is the opposite. Chive does not even hope to get laid, he just relishes the attention. The NEGATIVE attention. Who has he been getting the most attention from? The feminists? No! He's been getting the most attention from the anti-bigotry anti-sexism anti-feminists. This is what trolls do, Deb -- they post whatever will PISS OFF the greatest number of people, just to get a response. Chive is a very lonely man, who will do anything for attention, even if the attention looks like hate.
