Received: by 10.180.82.193 with SMTP id k1mr962337wiy.0.1350352630656;
        Mon, 15 Oct 2012 18:57:10 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Path: q11ni134324915wiw.1!nntp.google.com!feeder2.cambriumusenet.nl!feed.tweaknews.nl!94.232.116.12.MISMATCH!feed.xsnews.nl!border-2.ams.xsnews.nl!border3.nntp.ams.giganews.com!border1.nntp.ams.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news.panservice.it!feeder.erje.net!newsfeed.x-privat.org!feeder.news.tin.it!spool.news.tin.it!not-for-mail
From: "Michele" <SPAMmiarmelN...@tln.it>
Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if
References: <a24b541c-5814-41c8-a70e-539b951b2955@n2g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> <5072a5a9$0$13280$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it> <o4c678ttadbeo21a1vb9vl6b3agn4oqanr@4ax.com>
Subject: Re: Italo-Greek War what-ifs
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 09:31:02 +0200
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5512
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <5073d2b5$0$13281$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it>
Organization: TIN.IT (http://www.tin.it)
X-Comments: Please send technical notifications to newsmas...@tin.it
NNTP-Posting-Host: 87.5.236.65
X-Trace: 1349767861 reader2.news.tin.it 13281 87.5.236.65:14501
X-Complaints-To: Please send abuse reports to abuse@retail.telecomitalia.it
Bytes: 3639


"The Horny Goat" <lcra...@home.ca> ha scritto nel messaggio 
news:o4c678ttadbeo21a1vb9vl6b3agn4oqanr@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 8 Oct 2012 12:06:33 +0200, "Michele" <SPAMmiarmelN...@tln.it>
> wrote:
>
>>The Germans don't intervene and the Italians remain stalemated and
>>humiliated more or less where they were at the end of their largely
>>unsuccessful March 1941 counteroffensive. For this to happen, Yugoslavia 
>>has
>>to be German-friendly. The British might also not intervene save in 
>>sending
>>the Greeks war materiel. That has a kncok-on in North Africa, with the
>>Italians probably pushed back all the way to Tripolitania. I don't think
>>that even in this case Tripoli falls, but Tripolitania remains the only
>>African bridgehead in Italian hands by the end of 1941.
>>
> For Yugoslavia to be pro-German in 1941 is not that big a POD - though
> I don't pretend I know enough about Yugoslavia in this era to suggest
> a scenario where there's no anti-German coup (which is what triggered
> the German invasion in the first place)
>

In fact.

> With no British landing in Greece they MIGHT take El Agheila but
> anything further west seems unlikely. Logistically I just don't think
> they had the means to do so in early 1941.
>

The italians, however, had little to oppose them with and what's more, 
Graziani was of a mind to withdrawing all the way to Tripolitania. Logistics 
is a problem, yes, but much less so if the enemy isn't making you expend 
ammo.

> I've always wondered why Bulgaria entered the war since their main
> role seems to have been against Yugoslavia in May/June 1941 and to
> surrender to the Soviets in 1944. If they stay neutral I don't see how
> the Communists come to power in 1944-46. Nor can I envision a scenario
> where they play any kind of serious role in the war on the scale of
> Hungary or even Slovakia.

Bulgaria entered the war as a German ally because the alternative would have 
been to have been a neutral, yes, a neutral like Denmark. The Germans wanted 
passage and they were going to get it. The Bulgarians, like so many others, 
decided they'd be better to side with the... winners. Note indeed that the 
proof that Bulgaria wasn't out for territorial aggrandizement per se, is the 
fact that they turned down an offer by Ciano to join in the attack on 
Greece; Italy had no means to force them. They accepted when the proposal 
came from Germany, the country that already had an army-sized "military 
mission" in neighboring Romania.