[?] Berlin Battles & French SS Volunteers
L. Lee
It was stated that the last Waffen-SS division to break through
the Soviet encirclement of Berlin in April 1945 was the
28th SS (?) "Charlemagne", which was suppose to have been
composed of French volunteers.
German Division status was paper-strength in the late war years...
so instead of the 10-12,000.... I think this division should
be around 5-7,000 correct ?
In addition... we also know that the SS was augmented with
German NCOs and other detachments... so what was the approx.
French composition in this division that defended Berlin to the
end ? I presume ethnic-French volunteers would have been assigned
to their respective divisions (like the Wallon) rather then
combined with this one ? Thanks for any info.
Leon.
McQ
>It was stated that the last Waffen-SS division to break through
>the Soviet encirclement of Berlin in April 1945 was the
>28th SS (?) "Charlemagne", which was suppose to have been
>composed of French volunteers.
The 28th was the 28th SS Freiwilligen Panzergrenadier Division
"Wallonien". The "Charlemagne" was the 33rd Waffen-Grenadier Division
Der SS (Franzosische Nr. 1) "Charlemagne". Neither the 28th or
the 33rd ever reached full divisional strength (in fact, the 28th
never exceeded regimental strength, even though it's order of battle
lists three Panzergrenadier Regiments as its main combat units).
The 33rd was originally composed of the "French Volunteer Legion"
which fought under the Wermacht and had a fine record. They were
passed on to the Waffen SS in August of '43 and designated as
Franzosisches Frewilligen Sturmbrigade "Charlemagne". They were
finally designated a division in 1945 after the original 33rd (33
Waffen-Kavallerie-Division der SS (Ungarishe Nr. 3)) was destroyed
near Budapest in February of '45.
The order of battle for the 33rd only lists two main combat units,
the 57th and 58th Waffen-Grenadier Regts.
>German Division status was paper-strength in the late war years...
>so instead of the 10-12,000.... I think this division should
>be around 5-7,000 correct ?
I think you're really looking at a 2 to 3,000 strength "division" in
this case, and that's probably an optimistic guess. I can't confirm
that but the 28th had been reduced to about 700 when it was included
in the defense of Berlin.
>In addition... we also know that the SS was augmented with
>German NCOs and other detachments... so what was the approx.
>French composition in this division that defended Berlin to the
>end ? I presume ethnic-French volunteers would have been assigned
>to their respective divisions (like the Wallon) rather then
>combined with this one ? Thanks for any info.
Both the 28th and 33rd were present at the defense of
Berlin. Both, according to my sources, were destroyed in
that defense. Some survivors of the 33rd reached US captivity
in the Moosburg area. However the 28th was destroyed along
with the "Frundsberg" (10th SS Panzer Div), "Nordland" (11th SS
Freiwilligen-Panzergrenadier Div) and "Nederland" (34th Waffen-
Grenadier Division Der SS) Divisions in a 16 February '45 attack
against Zhukov's northern flank that was eventually repulsed.
As for their makeup, the 28th had many nationalities to include
French, Belgian and some Spanish. Near the end of the war, the SS
was much less picky about who went to what division, as the name of
the game was numbers. As for the German NCO, most of the "foreign"
SS divisions had regular German Waffen-SS cadres down to the NCO
level.
McQ
______________________________________
Join the hot-topics list for a spirited discussion
of topical subjects.
To Subscribe: e-mail to hot-topics...@MakeList.com
Jim Whitelaw
L. Lee <le...@prosser.seas.ucla.edu> wrote:
>
>
> It was stated that the last Waffen-SS division to break through
> the Soviet encirclement of Berlin in April 1945 was the
> 28th SS (?) "Charlemagne", which was suppose to have been
> composed of French volunteers.
>
> German Division status was paper-strength in the late war years...
> so instead of the 10-12,000.... I think this division should
> be around 5-7,000 correct ?
>
> In addition... we also know that the SS was augmented with
> German NCOs and other detachments... so what was the approx.
> French composition in this division that defended Berlin to the
> end ? I presume ethnic-French volunteers would have been assigned
> to their respective divisions (like the Wallon) rather then
> combined with this one ? Thanks for any info.
Found the figure below attributed to Alexander v. Webenau at;
http://members.tripod.com/~europakreuz/05006eng.htm
Regards,
Jim
whitela...@his.com
remove caps to reply
>Here is a list of the approximate figures of foreign volunteers in the
"Wafer-SS";
Sweden = 300
Norway = 3.000
Finland = 3.000
Denmark = 8.000
The Netherlands = 40.000
Wallonians = 16.000
Flamish = 72.000
Luxembourg = 100
Liechtenstein = 100
Switzerland = 1.330
France = 12.000
Italy = 10.000
Spain = 300
Portugal = 50
Romania = 5.000
Albania = 16.000
Croatia = 8.000
Serbia = 4.000
Slovenia = 6.000
Greece = 1.000
Estonia = 23.000
Latvia = 33.000
Lithuania = 1.000
Bulgaria = 3.000
Hungary = 40.000
Russia = 40.000
Ukraine = 25.000
Armenia = 3.000
Georgians = 1.000
Caucasians = 15.000
Cirgisians = 2.000
Cosakians = 35.000
Tartars = 10.000
Turks = 3.000
Indians = 3.000
England = approximately 50
U.S.A. = approximately 30
clipper
it was composed by :
the french volunteer legion (LVF) which fought in russia from 11/41 till
08/44
the sturmbrigade "frankreich" created in 1942
the french "milice" which was a troop helping the germans against
"resistants" in France
the last french SS who fought in Berlin in 04-05/45 were about 300 and
were leaded by
hauptsturmfuhrer "Fernet"
they fought with the SS division Nordland under the command of
BrigadeFuhrer
Krukenberg
The theater of their combat was around the "belle Alliance Platz", near
the Fuhrer
Bunker
McQ wrote:
> >L. Lee wrote:
>
> >It was stated that the last Waffen-SS division to break through
> >the Soviet encirclement of Berlin in April 1945 was the
> >28th SS (?) "Charlemagne", which was suppose to have been
> >composed of French volunteers.
>
> The 28th was the 28th SS Freiwilligen Panzergrenadier Division
> "Wallonien". The "Charlemagne" was the 33rd Waffen-Grenadier Division
> Der SS (Franzosische Nr. 1) "Charlemagne". Neither the 28th or
> the 33rd ever reached full divisional strength (in fact, the 28th
> never exceeded regimental strength, even though it's order of battle
> lists three Panzergrenadier Regiments as its main combat units).
>
> The 33rd was originally composed of the "French Volunteer Legion"
> which fought under the Wermacht and had a fine record. They were
> passed on to the Waffen SS in August of '43 and designated as
> Franzosisches Frewilligen Sturmbrigade "Charlemagne". They were
> finally designated a division in 1945 after the original 33rd (33
> Waffen-Kavallerie-Division der SS (Ungarishe Nr. 3)) was destroyed
> near Budapest in February of '45.
>
> The order of battle for the 33rd only lists two main combat units,
> the 57th and 58th Waffen-Grenadier Regts.
>
> >German Division status was paper-strength in the late war years...
> >so instead of the 10-12,000.... I think this division should
> >be around 5-7,000 correct ?
>
> I think you're really looking at a 2 to 3,000 strength "division" in
> this case, and that's probably an optimistic guess. I can't confirm
> that but the 28th had been reduced to about 700 when it was included
> in the defense of Berlin.
>
> >In addition... we also know that the SS was augmented with
> >German NCOs and other detachments... so what was the approx.
> >French composition in this division that defended Berlin to the
> >end ? I presume ethnic-French volunteers would have been assigned
> >to their respective divisions (like the Wallon) rather then
> >combined with this one ? Thanks for any info.
>
McQ
>the 33th division "charlemagne" was created in august 1944 (and no 1943)
I believe if you'll read my message closely, I said it became
the 33rd division "Charlemagne" in '45. The 33rd Waffen-Kavallerie
Division der SS (Ungarishe Nr. 3) was formed around August '44.
"Charlemagne" was formed _AFTER_ the 33rd Waffen-Kavallerie-Divison
der SS (Ungarishe Nr.3) was destroyed near Budapest in Feb. '45 as I
stated...otherwise there'd have been two 33rd divisions. And, as
stated, it existed as the Franzosisches Frewilligen Sturmbrigade
"Charlemagne" until early '45, which as noted, is a "brigade" size
unit.
>it was composed by : the french volunteer legion (LVF) which fought in
>russia from 11/41 till 08/44
Yes, initially designated as the Wermacht's Infantrie Regiment 638
and first saw action as part of the 7th Infantry Division during the
drive on Moscow during the winter of 41/42 where it suffered heavy
losses. From the spring of '42 to the autumn of '43 it is was out
of front-line action and primarily used in anti-partisan operations in
rear areas. It was then fragmented into battalion size units and not
regrouped until January of '44, where it continued anti-partisan
action.
In June of '44 the LVF went back to the eastern front where they
fought very well in defensive operations...so well that the Red Army
thought they were facing two French divisions instead of a regiment
reduced to about half a battalion strength. They were eventually
incorporated into the "new" 33rd Waffen-Grenadier Division der SS
"Charlemagne" along with a large number of French volunteers who'd
fought on the eastern front while attached to the 18th SS
Freiwilligen-Panzergrenadier Divison "Horst Wessel" and about 800
volunteers who'd been sent to Alsace for training in August of that
year as the Franzosiche SS Freiwilligen Sturmbrigade.
>the sturmbrigade "frankreich" created in 1942 the french "milice" which was
>a troop helping the germans against "resistants" in France
>the last french SS who fought in Berlin in 04-05/45 were about 300 and
>were leaded by hauptsturmfuhrer "Fernet" they fought with the SS division
>Nordland under the command of BrigadeFuhrer Krukenberg
My source gives the number of 500, but that's a quibble not worth
pursuing. All were volunteers, with 700 (for a divisional strength
total of 1200) of the command having remained at Neustrelitz. The
volunteers fought very well, and three Knights Crosses were awarded to
divisional personnel for their actions in single-handedly knocking out
a number of Soviet tanks.
<snip to salient part of former message>
>> The 33rd was originally composed of the "French Volunteer Legion"
>> which fought under the Wermacht and had a fine record. They were
>> passed on to the Waffen SS in August of '43 and designated as
>> Franzosisches Frewilligen Sturmbrigade "Charlemagne". They were
>> finally designated a division in 1945 after the original 33rd (33
>> Waffen-Kavallerie-Division der SS (Ungarishe Nr. 3)) was destroyed
>> near Budapest in February of '45.
McQ