Was Hitler a beliver in theism?
SolomonW
believed. Still all we have on this question are his comments. So here is a
page here on Hitler's religious beliefs which discusses several of his
comments
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_religious_beliefs
My question is do you think that Hitler believed in some form of theism?
I think it is important here in to say that in answering this question that
religious and spiritual beliefs can exist that are atheistic or agnostic eg
certain branches of Buddhism.
Don Phillipson
news:9QrPm.14390$Ej6....@newsfe04.ams2...
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_religious_beliefs
>
> My question is do you think that Hitler believed in some form of theism?
>
> I think it is important here in to say that in answering this question
that
> religious and spiritual beliefs can exist that are atheistic or agnostic
eg
> certain branches of Buddhism.
Answers are non-simple i.e. we should not expect the same
personal beliefs at all dates in a life, or uniformity between
private beliefs and public practice. Verifiable facts include:
1. Hitler was raised a Catholic, as was normal for everyone
(except Jews) in Austria.
2. As head of government, Hitler supervised Third Reich
sponsorship of an episcopal protestant state church. (This
was normal for the time and place.) Hitler also approved the
Concordat with the Roman Catholic church guaranteeing civil
rights for Catholics, contentious in German politics since the
1860s. Nazi "Gleichschaltung" (=uniformity) enabled direct
Nazi party control of many private or church-run clubs, e.g.
boy scouts, pensioners' retirement homes etc.
3. The SS (central to Nazi doctrine) was explicitly atheistic
and antireligious.
4. As a private citizen Hitler is not known to have practised
any religion (e.g. did not attend church) and professed no
religious beliefs.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
Rich Rostrom
> 3. The SS (central to Nazi doctrine) was explicitly atheistic
> and antireligious.
1) SS men were encouraged to disclaim allegiance
to any formal religions, such as the Reformed or
Lutheran Churches, and to identify themselves as
merely "believers in God", but _not_ to profess
atheism.
2) IIRC Himmler sponsored a vague sort of revived
Nordic Paganism, and some SS men participated in
quasi-religious rituals.
> 4. As a private citizen Hitler is not known to have practised
> any religion (e.g. did not attend church) and professed no
> religious beliefs.
Hitler was a nominal Catholic, and paid church-tax
as a Catholic until after becoming Chancellor and
Fuhrer. This was only because of his Austrian origin,
and AFAIK he never attended Mass, made confession,
or took Communion after his childhood.
SolomonW
> 4. As a private citizen Hitler is not known to have practised
> any religion (e.g. did not attend church) and professed no
> religious beliefs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theism
Theism in the broadest sense is the belief in at least one deity. It does
not require identification to any religious institution.
Mein Kampf has several references to God as does many of his speeches and
quotes. I am not aware of any where he states that he does not believe in
God, if know of any please let me know as I would love to see them.
Repeatably Hitler stated he was doing God's work?
Don Phillipson
> > 4. As a private citizen Hitler is not known to have practised
> > any religion (e.g. did not attend church) and professed no
> > religious beliefs.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theism
>
> Theism in the broadest sense is the belief in at least one deity. It does
> not require identification to any religious institution.
This true point includes a major opportunity for error.
"Theists" indeed includes people who profess belief but
belong to no church, but the vast majority of people who
are theists are also Christians, Jews, Muslims, and so on.
> Mein Kampf has several references to God as does many of his speeches and
> quotes. I am not aware of any where he states that he does not believe in
> God, if know of any please let me know as I would love to see them.
Authors like Ian Kershaw have reviewed Hitler's published
table talk (i.e. records of his private conversations) as well
as his speeches on public occasions. The conventions of
political rhetoric in 20th century Europe encouraged almost
anyone (except Communists) to invoke God's support of
the current programme (and Stalin even reactivated the
Russian Orthodox church to assist in wartime.) Historians
seem to agree no rhetoric of great WW2 orators (e.g.
Hitler, Churchill, Stalin, Roosevelt) is a reliable indicator of
their private beliefs or non-belief. We can also see that
(except for Communists) public figures who were non-
believers avoided unambiguously saying so in public (for
functional reasons, i.e. such a declaration could not possibly
help the war effort and might surprise or alienate some of
their personal supporters.)
A significant difference is that Germany and other continental
contraries that recorded religious affiliation included the
category of "non-believer." Britain did not recognize this
category: so that wherever religious affiliation was recorded
(e.g. in the armed forces) atheists were automatically
recorded as members of the (established) Church of
England, unless they both made a special fuss and were
dealing with a sympathetic attestation clerk. Many non-believers
in German uniform proclaimed to the world (on their belt buckles)
"Gott mit uns" = "God is with us." This was a feature of the
uniform. No alternative buckles were available for registered
non-believers.
Tero P. Mustalahti
> Historians
> seem to agree no rhetoric of great WW2 orators (e.g.
> Hitler, Churchill, Stalin, Roosevelt) is a reliable indicator of
> their private beliefs or non-belief.
Although that is certainly true, I think that there is enough evidence
to conclude that Hitler was not an atheist and probably not an agnostic
either. He most likely believed in some kind of Creator God or "Supreme
Architect", who would support the strong and the fit among individuals
and nations "in spirit", but does not get directly involved in the
affairs of men. I short, he was probably some kind of Deist, even if he
clearly did not support many other ideals of the Enlightenment.
Tero P. Mustalahti
SolomonW
>> seem to agree no rhetoric of great WW2 orators (e.g.
>> Hitler, Churchill, Stalin, Roosevelt) is a reliable indicator of
>> their private beliefs or non-belief.
> Although that is certainly true,
Agreed. All were smart politicians. It would have made much sense for
Hitler and Churchill to take a position of anti-atheism against the
communist.
It would also made sense for the Nazis to attempt to utilize many people
attachment to God say in the early 1930s when they needed these peoples
votes. It is interesting many of the quotes for his belief in God come from
that era.
> I think that there is enough evidence
> to conclude that Hitler was not an atheist and probably not an agnostic
> either.
Yes although clearly there is no clear cut answer here,
like with Stalin.
> He most likely believed in some kind of Creator God or "Supreme
> Architect", who would support the strong and the fit among individuals
> and nations "in spirit", but does not get directly involved in the
> affairs of men.
I tend to agree as other people in the Nazi party such as Bormann were
vocal atheists. If Hitler was an atheist, at the very least we would have
had many quotes he would have said to people in private supporting such a
position.
> I short, he was probably some kind of Deist, even if he
> clearly did not support many other ideals of the Enlightenment.
Darwinism is such an idea too.
SolomonW
think it is worth revisiting this question. I found this an interesting
article on Hitler's library, where it discusses this question
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200305/ryback
Some comments from the article were on this topic
Ian Kershaw who argued that "I don't think that he had any real belief in a
deity of any sort, only in himself as a 'man of destiny' who would bring
about Germany's 'salvation,'"
Gerhard Weinberg stated "He didn't believe in anything but himself,"
Friedrich Heer, a prominent and controversial Viennese theologian,
identified Hitler as a misguided "Austrian Catholic," a man whose faith was
disastrously misplaced but nevertheless sincere.
Fritz Redlich, an eminent Yale psychiatrist, asserts in his book, Hitler:
Diagnosis of a Destructive Prophet, that Hitler acted from a profound
belief in God. Noting Hitler's own words "Man kommt um den Gottesbegriff
nicht um" ("You cannot get around the concept of God"), Redlich told me
last summer that he was certain Hitler believed in a "divine creature." He
rejected suggestions that Hitler's invocations of the divine were little
more than cynical public posturing and insisted that we ought to take
Hitler at his word: "In a way, Hitler was a terrible liar, but he was a
tactical liar. In his essential line of thinking he was honest."
Traudl Junge, Hitler's former secretary, did believe that Hitler's repeated
references to the divine were more than just for show. Junge嚙碼who died of
cancer in February of last year嚙碼told me the previous summer that Hitler
spoke of such things in private as well as in public. After two and a half
years of daily contact with Hitler, she was convinced that he believed in
some form of divine protection, especially after surviving a dramatic
assassination attempt in 1944. "After the July 1944 attack," she told me,
"I believe he felt himself to be an instrument of providence, and believed
he had a mission to fulfill."
In 1943 Walter Langer had concluded that Hitler believed that the mortal
and the divine were one and the same: that the God he was seeking was in
fact himself.