Marine fighters VS Navy fighters
Brage
Whats the difference between Marine pilots/fighters and Navy pilots/fighters
Cub Driver
>
>Whats the difference between Marine pilots/fighters and Navy pilots/fighters
During World War II, there was really no difference in aircraft. Since
the navy sloughed the Brewster Buffalo off onto the marines, and since
the marines got the Vought Corsair when the navy didn't want it for
carrier service, there was a stereotype that the marines got what the
navy didn't want, but that wasn't true overall. (The Corsair was later
adapted for carrier service.)
The biggest difference of course is that the pilots belong to two
different services. They both trained at Pensacola in the navy flight
training program. The marines were most often based on land; the navy
was most often based on carriers, though carriers sometimes embarked
marine fighter squadrons. The primary task for the marines was
supporting marine ground troops ashore; the primary job for the navy
was to defend the carrier and the fleet, and to take the fight to the
enemy fleet.
That the U.S. Marines still have their own air force (indeed, that the
U.S. Navy does, and to a lesser extent the U.S. Army) suggests that
the apparent duplication did serve a purpose. There was an emotional
bond between marines on the ground and in the air that made the marine
air wing a real benefit in combat.
all the best -- Dan Ford
email: war...@mailblocks.com (put Cubdriver in subject line)
The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
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On 24 Jul 2004 12:49:09 -0500, kyle_bro...@yahoo.com (Brage)
wrote:
>
>Whats the difference between Marine pilots/fighters and Navy pilots/fighters
>
--
Emmanuel Gustin
news:ce0e6n$8...@gazette.corp.bcm.tmc.edu...
> There was an emotional bond between marines on the ground
> and in the air that made the marine air wing a real benefit in
> combat.
Besides that, the Marines always had a comparatively
very strong air support component, very capable in giving
ground support. This was in line with the Marine's mission
as the amphibious "cutting edge", which implied that they
would have to do without much artillery and other heavy
weaponry-- so extra air support, a lot of it, replaced it.
Occasionally, when Marines and Army units operated
together, the different standards of air support did cause
some friction. In Korea the 8th Army negotiated with the
Air Force that it would get 96 close support missions per
day for its entire frontline; but the commander of the 1st
Marine Division requested that the 1st Marine Air Wing
would fly 40 close-support missions for his unit. The Army,
of course, did not accept that, and insisted that the Marines
had to fly close support missions for Army units as well!
--
Emmanuel Gustin
Emmanuel dot Gustin @t skynet dot be
Flying Guns Books and Site: http://users.skynet.be/Emmanuel.Gustin/
--
Brage
Did the marines operate any bombers
Tank Fixer
on 26 Jul 2004 18:52:14 -0500,
Brage kyle_bro...@yahoo.com attempted to say .....
>
> Did the marines operate any bombers
Yes, the B25 as the PBJ IIRC..
--
When dealing with propaganda terminology one sometimes always speaks in
variable absolutes. This is not to be mistaken for an unbiased slant.
--
Chris Mark
>Occasionally, when Marines and Army units operated
>together, the different standards of air support did cause
>some friction. In Korea the 8th Army negotiated with the
>Air Force that it would get 96 close support missions per
>day for its entire frontline; but the commander of the 1st
>Marine Division requested that t
>would fly 40 close-support missions for his unit. The Army,
>of course, did not accept that, and insisted that the Marines
>had to fly close support missions for Army units as well!
Some of those "desk jockies" (as they have been referred to) who stayed in the
service after WW2, building on the experience and failures of close air support
in that war, developed a system to coordinate USAF, Navy and Marine air ground
support. This had its first debut in the Korean War. Marine aviation, as well
as naval aviation did indeed fly close air support missions for army units, and
the Air Force flew close air support missions for Marine units.
You may be referring to the situation around the Chosin, when Marine air units
were detached from 5th Air Force to provide dedicated air support to the 1st
Marine Division there. But TACC could call on Air Force, Navy or Marine air
assets as needed and as available in a way impossible during WW2.
Chris Mark
Taki Kogoma
On 26 Jul 2004 18:52:14 -0500, kyle_bro...@yahoo.com (Brage)
allegedly declared to soc.history.war.world-war-ii...
>Did the marines operate any bombers
Single-engine dive- and torpedo-bombers, yes. Plus later in the war
F4Us in fighter-bomber configuration.
--
Capt. Gym Z. Quirk (Known to some as Taki Kogoma) quirk @ swcp.com
Just an article detector on the Information Supercollider.
Brad Meyer
>
>Did the marines operate any bombers
Yes. Navy dive bombers for sure. The older marques of the SBD as they
were replaced in the fleet and then the rest of the SBDs as those were
replaced by SB2Cs. They used dive bombers (and dive bombed from F4Us)
against both ground and naval targets, although their specialty was
ground support with Marine Air ground controllers on the spot.
Richard Macdonald
"Brage" <kyle_bro...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ce45fe$h...@gazette.corp.bcm.tmc.edu...
>
> Did the marines operate any bombers
Yes they did have some PBJ-1C/H/J Mitchels and PB4Y-1/2 Liberator/Privateer
and PV-1N Venturas at various times as well as various dive and torpedo
bombers.
Unfortunately I do not have the time this morning to look up all the
squadroins that used what, if you canget a hold of Gordon L Rottman's U.S.
Marine Corps World War II Order of Battle, it has all that information.
(ISBN: 0-313-31906-5)
--
Richard A Macdonald, CPA/EA
Dedicated student of Fr Luca Paccioli, Master Juggler.
Gib mir schokolade und niemand wird verletzt!!
Richard Macdonald
news:ce6o1k$n...@gazette.corp.bcm.tmc.edu...
>
> On 26 Jul 2004 18:52:14 -0500, kyle_bro...@yahoo.com (Brage)
> allegedly declared to soc.history.war.world-war-ii...
> >Did the marines operate any bombers
>
> Single-engine dive- and torpedo-bombers, yes. Plus later in the war
> F4Us in fighter-bomber configuration.
Well now that I have some time this evening:
VMB-413 PBJ-1 (B-25)
VMB-423 PBJ-1 (B-25)
VMB-433 PBJ-1 (B-25)
VMB-433 PBJ-1 (B-25)
VMB-453 PBJ-1 (B-25) (Later VMTB with TBM)
VMB-463 PBJ-1 (B-25) (Later VMTB with TBM)
VMB-473 PBJ-1 (B-25) (Later VMTB with TBM)
VMB-483 PBJ-1 (B-25)
VMB-611 PBJ-1 (B-25)
VMB-612 PBJ-1 (B-25)
VMB-613 PBJ-1 (B-25)
VMB-614 PBJ-1 (B-25)
VMB-621 PBJ-1 (B-25) (Later VMTB with TBM)
VMB-622 PBJ-1 (B-25) (Later VMTB with TBM)
VMB-623 PBJ-1 (B-25) (Later VMTB with TBM)
VMB-624 PBJ-1 (B-25) (Later VMTB with TBM)
VMD-254 PB4Y-1 & -1 (photo recon versions of B-24)
Source: U.S. marine Corps World War II Order of Battle, Gordon L Rottman.
(I have over one whole shelf of OB books)
--
Richard A Macdonald, CPA/EA
SSG (Ret), USA, ADA, 16P34
Dedicated student of Fr Luca Paccioli, Master Juggler.
Gib mir schokolade und niemand wird verletzt!!
--
Chris Mark
>From: "Richard Macdonald"
>Source: U.S. marine Corps World War II Order of Battle, Gordon L Rottman.
>(I have over one whole shelf of OB books)
Richard,
Would you happen to know anything about Marine PBJ use of the Tiny Tim rocket?
I was told once years ago that in the very last days of the war a Marine
squadron attacked shipping at the south end of the Tsushima Straight with this
weapon, but the only reference I have ever turned up merely mentioned some use
against hard targets on Okinawa. If memory serves, these PBJs, probably -1Hs,
carried a single Tiny Tim under each wing and would approach a target as if on
a skip-bombing run, but instead of closing to 200 yards, as they would to
release bombs, launched the rockets at 1,000 yards, thus avoid most AAA. Each
rocked, iirc, carried a 500-lb warhead, so, if they connected, they could do
some serious damage.
Chris Mark
dp
"Chris Mark" <xmar...@aol.compost> wrote in message
news:cebuc8$7...@gazette.corp.bcm.tmc.edu...
> Would you happen to know anything about Marine PBJ use of the Tiny Tim
rocket?
> I was told once years ago that in the very last days of the war a Marine
> squadron attacked shipping at the south end of the Tsushima Straight with
this
> weapon, but the only reference I have ever turned up merely mentioned some
use
> against hard targets on Okinawa. If memory serves, these PBJs,
probably -1Hs,
> carried a single Tiny Tim under each wing and would approach a target as
if on
> a skip-bombing run, but instead of closing to 200 yards, as they would to
> release bombs, launched the rockets at 1,000 yards, thus avoid most AAA.
Each
> rocked, iirc, carried a 500-lb warhead, so, if they connected, they could
do
> some serious damage.
F4U Corsairs used the Tiny Tim. There was a carrier (whose name escapes me)
off of Okinawa that got hit by Kamikazes. Apparently the subsequent
conflagration launched some Tiny Tims already mounted on the aircraft. Don't
know about their use on PBJ's or other aircraft.
dp
--