What significant historical event/s would you like seeing made into films?
puni...@earthling.net
personally find intriguing and fascinating) from medieval and
non-medieval history, would you most like seeing made into films (not
documentaries) or given a TV mini-series adaptation, if the subject
matter really needs over 4 hours to be properly told and what
particular filmmaker/s or actor/s would you like seeing involved in
making each film, for either cinema, or as a TV mini-series over 4
hours.
If anything nominated has already been made into a film (but was done
very poorly, disappointingly, or with not enough money in your view, or
it didn't stick to historical facts), nominate it anyway, saying how
it should be properly done. Or if anything you'd like seeing made,
has been written as any superb fictional novels you've read (mixing
historical fact with real and imagined characters and situations),
that's quite ok to mention also.
David C. Pugh
news:1113558062.4...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Will try to get back to your first question when I'm not drowned in
work.
A quickie on the last sentence: I cannot find high enough praise for
Neal Stephenson's "Baroque Cycle", of which I am nearing the end of volume
I. Stylistically he mixes period English and attitudes with modern
sensibility and slang and even references, which being done on purpose as
opposed to by incompetence, is both charming and often very funny. Serious
history, politics and science, plus loads of zingers. Wheee!
David
--
David C. Pugh
Philosophers have sought to explain the world, and Marxists to change it;
the point, however, is to blame someone else for it.
To mail me, replace biblical character with his dad.
Julian Richards
What a cracking question! I use questions like this when the off
topics get too bad but the well is getting rather dry. If I can't be
the person who asked this one then at least I can get to answer it.
My employer paid for me to take Film Studies at the local college. My
grade was higher than that of the director of Judge Dredd who was
there a few years before. My short surrealist animated film ("Evil
Weed") about the lethality of smoking was great fun although the
Plasticine cigarettes kept falling over between frames. Even my chain
smoking tutor was impressed (and pleased that no cigarettes were
harmed during the filming).
"Absolution", my screenplay about the Catholic angst of modern day
vampires was such that Ealing hinted that I shouldn't darken their
towels again.
But I digress (as usual). The film to go for is the big H. 1066. Play
it straight no extra characters for effect or nonexistent love
interests. Three hours will be needed, I'm sure.
I'll write the screenplay thieving as much from contemporary accounts
as is useful. Someone like Peter Jackson to direct (ie someone who is
outside of the Hollywood machine and prepared to do something
properly). If you could get him, as he is rather busy with other
things, Arnie as Hardrada as he could bring some likeability to who is
somewhat the nastiest corner of the triangle.
The film would be the tale of three English kings, three men who would
be King and in the final battle, the story of three brothers against
three brothers. Edith Swan-neck supplies the love interest. The BT
even supplies the story board.
I think that the key to doing this properly is to not play heroes and
villains (that is why the Hollywood machine would ruin it). The thing
to do is to portray Hardrada, William and Harold equally, leaving the
audience to think for themselves who to cheer for and who to hiss.
--
Julian Richards
medieval "at" richardsuk.f9.co.uk
Usenet is how from the comfort of your own living room, you can converse
with people that you would never want in your house.
THIS MESSAGE WAS POSTED FROM SOC.HISTORY.MEDIEVAL
afro...@yahoo.com
I've always wanted to see the Pazzi conspiracy on film. I'd like
Scorcese to direct. Imagine that! He'd be perfect. I wouldn't mind
DeNiro as Lorenzo de Medici. As for his brother, well, Johnny Depp is
probably too old by now (drat!) I'm almost afraid to suggest Orlando
Bloom, although he might not be too bad. Definitely no Brad Pitt or
Leonardo de Caprio (not that I don't think he's a good actor, I just
don't think he's a good period actor) and no Mel Gibson under any
circumstance! And who would we get to play Simonetta Vespucci? I'll
have to think about that.
I'd also like to see the third Crusade. And I'd like to see it
portrayed without making Richard the Lion Hearted as the hero! Not
sure who I'd like to see direct it, though. Or who I'd like to see
perform in it. Definitely not Brad Pitt. And no Mel Gibson under any
circumstances. Jude Law isn't beefy enough. Russell Crowe might be
too beefy. Oh! Vigo Mortensten might make a good Richard! Now who
would we have as Saladin?
Eve
Renia
Excellent. Such a film is just waiting to be made.
Renia
Julian Richards
wrote:
If you wanted to get really fancy, let a French studio make the Norman
part and a Norwegian studio the Hardrada part.
David C. Pugh
news:1113573136.4...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> punis...@earthling.net wrote:
> > What significant historical event/s (from any century, that you
> > personally find intriguing and fascinating) from medieval and
> > non-medieval history, would you most like seeing made into films (not
> > documentaries) or given a TV mini-series adaptation, if the subject
> > matter really needs over 4 hours to be properly told and what
> > particular filmmaker/s or actor/s would you like seeing involved in
> > making each film, for either cinema, or as a TV mini-series over 4
> > hours.
> >
> > If anything nominated has already been made into a film (but was done
> > very poorly, disappointingly, or with not enough money in your view,
> or
> > it didn't stick to historical facts), nominate it anyway, saying how
> > it should be properly done. Or if anything you'd like seeing made,
> > has been written as any superb fictional novels you've read (mixing
> > historical fact with real and imagined characters and situations),
> > that's quite ok to mention also.
<snip Renaissance>
> I'd also like to see the third Crusade. And I'd like to see it
> portrayed without making Richard the Lion Hearted as the hero! Not
> sure who I'd like to see direct it, though. Or who I'd like to see
> perform in it. Definitely not Brad Pitt. And no Mel Gibson under any
> circumstances. Jude Law isn't beefy enough. Russell Crowe might be
> too beefy.
I don't think you can be beefy enough for a knight. Blacksmith
shoulders.
Oh! Vigo Mortensten might make a good Richard!
He might like to play a bad guy for a change :-)
Jude Law for Guy de Lusignan.
Now who
> would we have as Saladin?
You should get Naveen Andrews as some Muslim warrior or other, he's
currently showing quite respectable shoulders in "Lost". But not as Saladin,
because I understand that he was actually a bookish type. I've never seen a
physical description, it's probably in a passage of Baha' ad-Din that hasn't
been anthologised, So look for an olive-skinned actor who can do
"intellectual" and "charming dinner companion" but isn't a hunk.
I've always wanted to see a film of the First Crusade that shows what a
roller-coaster of triumph and despair it was -- with the pilgrims acquiring
a conviction of divine will from their several hair-raising escapes. I mean,
they get into Antioch the day before a huge army arrives to smash them
against its impregnable walls? Then they do a suicidal sally against said
army, because it's better than starving to death, and huge army runs away?
Then they repeat the "getting into the city just before the relief army"
arrives schtick at Jerusalem? Pure Hollywood, ridiculous and artificial
glued-on happy endings, except that they actually happened.
An accurate film would also need to show all the non-combatants along,
so that it seems less like an army expedition than a migration with a
military escort. You could have multiple PoVs, not only of the guys in mail
but a priest, a "washerwoman" and all sorts of civilian odds and ends. And
I'd like to see proper treatment of the fact that the whole shebang was
supposed to be a Byzantine-led operation, the Muslims thinking that the
Faranj were just another bunch of Alexius' barbarian mercs until it was too
late; also that Antioch was an entirely Christian city, as was indeed half
of Syria and Palestine. So we want an Armenian PoV and a Jerusalem Christian
PoV, not to mention the Jews. Lots of PoVs here, an ensemble piece au Altman
or Jackson?
David C. Pugh
news:5qkv515rktph89j6e...@4ax.com...
> >> But I digress (as usual). The film to go for is the big H. 1066. Play
> >> it straight no extra characters for effect or nonexistent love
> >> interests. Three hours will be needed, I'm sure.
> >>
> >> I'll write the screenplay thieving as much from contemporary accounts
> >> as is useful. Someone like Peter Jackson to direct (ie someone who is
> >> outside of the Hollywood machine and prepared to do something
> >> properly).
Amen!
If you could get him, as he is rather busy with other
> >> things, Arnie as Hardrada as he could bring some likeability to who is
> >> somewhat the nastiest corner of the triangle.
> >>
> >> The film would be the tale of three English kings, three men who would
> >> be King and in the final battle, the story of three brothers against
> >> three brothers. Edith Swan-neck supplies the love interest. The BT
> >> even supplies the story board.
> >>
> >> I think that the key to doing this properly is to not play heroes and
> >> villains (that is why the Hollywood machine would ruin it). The thing
> >> to do is to portray Hardrada, William and Harold equally, leaving the
> >> audience to think for themselves who to cheer for and who to hiss.
Very good idea.
> >
> >Excellent. Such a film is just waiting to be made.
>
> If you wanted to get really fancy, let a French studio make the Norman
> part and a Norwegian studio the Hardrada part.
Let's not! Have you ever seen any Norwegian films? Get the Danes
instead. :-)
(You get could Lars von Trier to do it on a blackboard floor stencilled
with the words Hill, Malfosse etc. It ought to work out quite cheap.....)
David Read
"David C. Pugh" <solom...@online.no> wrote in message
news:xIQ7e.6771$SL4.1...@news4.e.nsc.no...
Sounds great. Don't forget Brian Blessed as Henry of Esch. Albert of Aix
should be in it too, taking notes somewhere. Eddie Izzard could play him -
he's good at flights of fantasy, and likes wearing frocks...
---
cheers,
David Read
martin reboul
<puni...@earthling.net> wrote in message
news:1113558062.4...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
For me, it has to be the one that Shakespeare missed out : Edward IV.
A tale of treachery, bloodshed and political manoevering, with lashings of sex,
violence and derring-do.
The characters are almost unbelievable, even without any 'spicing up'.
I started writing a 'script' based on the life of Warwick the Kingmaker, which
encompasses most of the best bits of the Waes of the Roses, and the most
interesting characters, but it would be a mammoth film, probably only possible
to do in two or three parts. They're all there, the Nevilles, the Percys, the
Stanleys etc., and the very best and very worst of the Plantagenets. Margaret of
Anjou (foxy bitch), Liz Woodville (crafty blonde bitch), kinky, camp foreigners
such as Alencon and nasty ones like Charles the Rash.... and the superb Louis
XI....
The storyline is unfortunately very, very complicated, it would make Dallas or
Dynasty look very tame and straightforward, but that should boost video and DVD
sales. I doubt it could ever have been made before digital imaging took off, but
it could now I suspect....
Greatest scenes....
The battles of Wakefield, Towton, St Albans, and a dozen more (ending at
Barnet)
Henry VI's 'love day'
Warwick's piracy in the Channel
Executions too numerous to name
Ed's seduction of Ms Wydeville
Warwick trying to work with Exeter
Ed IV's most excellent parties
Henry VI & the topless dancers
The Duke of York claiming the throne
Richard III comes of age
The excesses of Tiptoft's 'justice'....
Too much to mention really... but what studio will ever dare take on such a
tremendous project?
Grethe
"David C. Pugh" <solom...@online.no> skrev i en meddelelse
news:xIQ7e.6771$SL4.1...@news4.e.nsc.no...
afro...@yahoo.com
Saladin, would this be crazy or terribly clever, how about Johnny Depp?
Or Jochim Phoenix? Or Gael Garcia Bernal? OK, maybe he's too young,
but surely we can find part for him somewhere? As for Russel Crowe as
Richard, we'd have to dye his hair blonde, and I just can't see him as
a natty dresser. Ethan Hawke? How 'bout that guy who played Spiderman
as Philip Augustus? Or maybe we could use Leo here? Possibly Joan
Collins as Eleanore of Aquitaine? Or Angelica Houston?
We do have to be careful that we don't throw everything in including
the kitchen sink. We have to keep our focus or it will be a mess.
Altman is good working with a lot of stories going on, but I'm not sure
about him. Not sure about Jackson either. Alfonso Cuaron? I want to
keep thinking about this.
JMHO,
Eve
St.Cuthbert's Host
what would *I* want to see made into a movie or what do I think would
make a good movie? For the first part I would like to see the events
of Runnymede with some real work going into the characters so that they
are not just carboard cutouts but real people in real situations going
through one of the great turning points.
As for the 2nd part - the battle of malden. made as a snapshot of the
cultures of the time, the challenge, the defiance and so on.
Mick
David C. Pugh
news:1113586696.1...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Great suggestions. I'm glad you found a part for Jude Law. As for
> Saladin, would this be crazy or terribly clever, how about Johnny Depp?
Interesting idea, I think Depp could do just about anything if his heart
was in it.
> Or Jochim Phoenix?
They're both too handsome. I don't recall Saladin being described as
good-looking, as he surely would have been if that had been vaguely
credible. Or maybe the Muslims weren't as obsessed with looks in their
leaders, I don't know.Haven't read the Western primary sources for the
IIIrd, only the Muslim.
Or Gael Garcia Bernal?
Who?
OK, maybe he's too young,
> but surely we can find part for him somewhere? As for Russel Crowe as
> Richard, we'd have to dye his hair blonde, and I just can't see him as
> a natty dresser.
Flashing on Nash......
Ethan Hawke? How 'bout that guy who played Spiderman
> as Philip Augustus?
Possibility. Suitably nebbish-like but ultimately dangerous.
Or maybe we could use Leo here? Possibly Joan
> Collins as Eleanore of Aquitaine? Or Angelica Houston?
Eleanor was 67 in 1189, so that might work.
> We do have to be careful that we don't throw everything in including
> the kitchen sink. We have to keep our focus or it will be a mess.
> Altman is good working with a lot of stories going on, but I'm not sure
> about him. Not sure about Jackson either. Alfonso Cuaron? I want to
> keep thinking about this.
Do that! Tell me what you think about my First Crusade approach, too.
Remember, though, that there isn't actually anything terribly cinematic
happening with Saladin as a person. He's a backroom sort of guy,
administrator, politician and especially master of propaganda, but he
doesn't personally do anything dramatic or have anything dramatic happen to
him. Cameo role, I think. His brother is much more promising dramatically,
what with his getting pally with our Richard and having our Joanie freak at
the thought of marrying a towelhead.
No, the drama is all on the Frankish side -- a hornet's nest. Richard,
Philip, Leopold, Conrad, Guy, Sibylla and Raymond. Hey, that Queen of
Jerusalem who was bonking the Patriarch, was she still around?
Maybe we'd better wait for "Kingdom of Heaven" so we can see how they
screw it up. Making the great feudatory Balian of Ibelin into a blacksmith
was a "forsmedelse" -- a pun that only works in Norwegian, alas.
Yusuf B Gursey
puni...@earthling.net wrote:
> What significant historical event/s (from any century, that you
> personally find intriguing and fascinating) from medieval and
> non-medieval history, would you most like seeing made into films (not
> documentaries) or given a TV mini-series adaptation, if the subject
> matter really needs over 4 hours to be properly told and what
> particular filmmaker/s or actor/s would you like seeing involved in
> making each film, for either cinema, or as a TV mini-series over 4
> hours.
Genghis Khan would be nice as a remake (this one more factual or at
least more loyal to the chronicles and with actual asian people in the
cast), though this guy does suffer a bit of a PR problem. anyone but a
John Wayne (as in the previous flick about Genghis)clone in the cast.
I'd like Turkey to do *any* good film on the Ottoman Empire, like about
Ko"sem Sultan (17th. cent., born: Anastasia ?; the mother of several
Sultans, and the one actually actually in charge for most of the time).
there were the "docu-vignettes" in the History Channel's "Harem"
program about her and others like her, and there was not so long ago a
"could have been good" turkish film about an incident occuring while
she was around. data about actual everyday life during her time is
plentiful, and Harems & sex and intrigue (she was appropriately
rutheless and ambitious, yet civic minded too)is always appealing to
the less intellectually minded. again, these guys and gals suffer from
PR problems.
Michael Kuettner
<puni...@earthling.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1113558062.4...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> What significant historical event/s (from any century, that you
> personally find intriguing and fascinating) from medieval and
> non-medieval history, would you most like seeing made into films (not
> documentaries) or given a TV mini-series adaptation, if the subject
> matter really needs over 4 hours to be properly told and what
> particular filmmaker/s or actor/s would you like seeing involved in
> making each film, for either cinema, or as a TV mini-series over 4
> hours.
>
I'd like to see the battle of Troyes; Sean Connery as Aetius and Yul
Brinner (or Anthony Hopkins) as Attila.
Directed by Quentin Tarantino; artwork and costumes by H.R.Giger.
Cheers,
Michael Kuettner
Yusuf B Gursey
Michael Kuettner wrote:
> <puni...@earthling.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:1113558062.4...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> > What significant historical event/s (from any century, that you
> > personally find intriguing and fascinating) from medieval and
> > non-medieval history, would you most like seeing made into films
(not
> > documentaries) or given a TV mini-series adaptation, if the subject
> > matter really needs over 4 hours to be properly told and what
> > particular filmmaker/s or actor/s would you like seeing involved in
> > making each film, for either cinema, or as a TV mini-series over 4
> > hours.
> >
> <snip>
> I'd like to see the battle of Troyes; Sean Connery as Aetius and Yul
> Brinner (or Anthony Hopkins) as Attila.
great idea. and have Attila say a few sentences in Chuvash.
Yul Brinner would have been great, Anthony Hopkins is too philosophical
or too polished.
the History Channel miniseries about Attila wasn't bad, so I didn't
mention it.
Paul J Gans
Wot? Leave it to the audience to think for itself?
This is HOLLYWOOD you are talking about.
Can't be done.
First we'll invent two men, one a Saxon small-holder and
one a Norman small holder. We will see the events leading
up to Hastings through their eyes.
They meet at Hastings and one is about to kill the other
when he notices a ring that the one is wearing. It turns
out that they are brothers, separated at birth.
At the end, they go off, arm in arm, to build a better world.
Sex interest is developed by Edith Swan-Neck, Vikings raping
their way through the north, egged on by Hardrada who is
blond, seven feet tall, and has horns. He, of course, is
killed in hand-to-hand combat by Harold, but only after
he has Harold down on the ground when Harold uses a kung fu
maneuver on him and strangles Hardrada with his bare hands.
William, of course, has a girl friend (along with a wife)
who is his inspiration for the invasion of England, an
event that never would have occured to him without her.
The opening scene of the battle will be wonderful. The
two sides arrayed on horseback facing each other across
a level field, when Talifer, the French knight, rides out
in front of the Norman forces and challenges a Saxon to
single combat -- which he wins, of course.
This is called an omen.
The last scene shows Edith Swan Neck in a shot taken as the
sun is setting, alone, crying on Harold's grave. Then
we cut to the two brothers, arm in arm, walking into the
future together as the credits come up.
It will be a great film.
Oh yes, the trebuchet action and the Greek fire during
the battle will be more exciting than your average auto
race. Indeed, the scene where Gyrth is enveloped in flame
and we see his flesh burning is another crowd pleaser.
This is a great idea Julian. It will make a fortune.
---- Paul J. Gans
Paul J Gans
Giger you say? Wow!!! I'd go to see that... ;-)
---- Paul J. Gans
Soren Larsen
"Paul J Gans" <ga...@panix.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:d3p8se$76e$1...@reader1.panix.com...
> Julian Richards <s...@sig.co.uk> wrote:
>>On 15 Apr 2005 02:41:02 -0700, puni...@earthling.net wrote:
to think for themselves who to cheer for and who to hiss.
>
> Wot? Leave it to the audience to think for itself?
>
> This is HOLLYWOOD you are talking about.
>
> Can't be done.
Of course it can.
>
>
> The last scene shows Edith Swan Neck in a shot taken as the
> sun is setting, alone, crying on Harold's grave. Then
> we cut to the two brothers, arm in arm, walking into the
> future together as the credits come up.
They will be boarding a boat and sail west into the sunset
to find a new land, promising never ever to let greed for power
direct their action.
Dont tell me Hollywood cant be subtle.
Soren Larsen
Yusuf B Gursey
Alexander Siddiq / Siddig el-Fadil ("Dr. Bashir" in Star Trek DS9).
he's anglo-sudanese (for sudan quite light skinned) and with a british
accent. a year ago I had seen on a website that he was scheduled to
play in a crusade-era cinema adventure around these times.
more the Hollywood image woudl be Antonio Banderas.
Yusuf B Gursey
David C. Pugh wrote:
>
> An accurate film would also need to show all the non-combatants
along,
good opprtunity to draw from Usama b. Munqidh
Paul J Gans
erilar
> Alexander Siddiq / Siddig el-Fadil ("Dr. Bashir" in Star Trek DS9).
> he's anglo-sudanese (for sudan quite light skinned) and with a british
> accent. a year ago I had seen on a website that he was scheduled to
> play in a crusade-era cinema adventure around these times.
Yes, I can definitely see him as Saladin 8-)
>
> more the Hollywood image woudl be Antonio Banderas.
As unhistorical as possible, of course, but that's Hollywood.
This film would HAVE to be made in some other country, of course.
Hollywood would destroy it.
--
Mary Loomer Oliver (aka Erilar)
You can't reason with someone whose first line of argument
is that reason doesn't count. Isaac Asimov
Erilar's Cave Annex: http://www.airstreamcomm.net/~erilarlo
erilar
<ga...@panix.com> wrote:
> First we'll invent two men, one a Saxon small-holder and
> one a Norman small holder. We will see the events leading
> up to Hastings through their eyes.
>
> They meet at Hastings and one is about to kill the other
> when he notices a ring that the one is wearing. It turns
> out that they are brothers, separated at birth.
>
Hildebrandslied with a happy ending 8-((
erilar
> Julian Richards <s...@sig.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >The film to go for is the big H. 1066. Play
> >it straight no extra characters for effect or nonexistent love
> >interests. Three hours will be needed, I'm sure.
...........
Paul, you are evil!
erilar
<martin...@SPAMFUKtiscali.co.uk> wrote:
It would HAVE to be British!
Renia
Julian, this would be brillyant.
Sean Bean for Harold. Russell Crowe for the Bastard.
Sean of course, for William. (Connery.(
Renia
Renia
> Great suggestions. I'm glad you found a part for Jude Law. As for
> Saladin, would this be crazy or terribly clever, how about Johnny Depp?
Banderas wossisname for Saladin.
> Or Jochim Phoenix? Or Gael Garcia Bernal? OK, maybe he's too young,
> but surely we can find part for him somewhere? As for Russel Crowe as
> Richard, we'd have to dye his hair blonde, and I just can't see him as
> a natty dresser. Ethan Hawke? How 'bout that guy who played Spiderman
> as Philip Augustus? Or maybe we could use Leo here? Possibly Joan
> Collins as Eleanore of Aquitaine?
Geddaway. Never La Joan. Too lighweight.
Can't stand her, but she's an excellent actress. Has to be La Rabbit
Lady. Blond gal. Name gone out of head. Did brillyant job as Eleanor
d'Aquitaine. Help me, someone.
Renia
Renia
Sorree. Meant Sean for Ed the Confessor.
Renia
Renia
> afro...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> Great suggestions. I'm glad you found a part for Jude Law. As for
>> Saladin, would this be crazy or terribly clever, how about Johnny Depp?
>
>
> Banderas wossisname for Saladin.
>
>
>> Or Jochim Phoenix? Or Gael Garcia Bernal? OK, maybe he's too young,
>> but surely we can find part for him somewhere? As for Russel Crowe as
>> Richard, we'd have to dye his hair blonde, and I just can't see him as
>> a natty dresser. Ethan Hawke? How 'bout that guy who played Spiderman
>> as Philip Augustus? Or maybe we could use Leo here? Possibly Joan
>> Collins as Eleanore of Aquitaine?
>
>
> Geddaway. Never La Joan. Too lighweight.
>
> Can't stand her, but she's an excellent actress. Has to be La Rabbit
> Lady. Blond gal. Name gone out of head. Did brillyant job as Eleanor
> d'Aquitaine. Help me, someone.
>
> Renia
Glenn close.
Renia
Paul J Gans
>In article <d3p8se$76e$1...@reader1.panix.com>, Paul J Gans
><ga...@panix.com> wrote:
>> First we'll invent two men, one a Saxon small-holder and
>> one a Norman small holder. We will see the events leading
>> up to Hastings through their eyes.
>>
>> They meet at Hastings and one is about to kill the other
>> when he notices a ring that the one is wearing. It turns
>> out that they are brothers, separated at birth.
>>
>Hildebrandslied with a happy ending 8-((
Well, I did try to work in every cliche I could
think of... ;-)
---- Paul J. Gans
Paul J Gans
>Paul, you are evil!
Of course. My agent is even now trying to sell the
script in Hollywood. There's already some interest.
One producer wants Julia Roberts to play Edith Swan-Neck.
---- Paul J. Gans
Yusuf B Gursey
David C. Pugh wrote:
> <afro...@yahoo.com> skrev i melding
> news:1113586696.1...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> > Great suggestions. I'm glad you found a part for Jude Law. As for
> > Saladin, would this be crazy or terribly clever, how about Johnny
Depp?
>
> Interesting idea, I think Depp could do just about anything if
his heart
> was in it.
>
> > Or Jochim Phoenix?
>
> They're both too handsome. I don't recall Saladin being described
as
> good-looking, as he surely would have been if that had been vaguely
> credible. Or maybe the Muslims weren't as obsessed with looks in
their
> leaders, I don't know.Haven't read the Western primary sources for
the
> IIIrd, only the Muslim.
here is what I found just using web-searching:
http://www.outremer.co.uk/hasan.html
Saladin did not have the physical good looks of the romantic hero.
Steven Runciman draws on contemporary accounts to describe him:
"He was short and stout, red-faced and blind in one eye; and his
features revealed his low birth. But he was a soldier of genius; and
few generals have been so devotedly loved by their men."
refering to:
A History of the Crusades: The Kingdom of Jerusalem and the Frankish
East 1100-1187: The Kingdom of Jerusalem Vol 2
Steven Runciman
I don't know about this site:
http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/196202/champion.of.the.faithful.htm
The envoys from the Crusader camp were, therefore, much beguiled by the
figure before them. Saladin's appearance seemed at first almost
anticlimactic. He was a slim, dark man of 53, far below average height
by European standards. His pointed black beard was cut in the style
preferred by the nobles of Islam. Dressed in the spare field uniform of
a Muslim general, he fingered the jeweled hilt of a gleaming scimitar
at his belt.
I'll do some looking up in the library when I get the chance.
David C. Pugh
news:1113624782....@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> > They're both too handsome. I don't recall Saladin being described
> as good-looking, as he surely would have been if that had been vaguely
> > credible. Or maybe the Muslims weren't as obsessed with looks in
> their leaders, I don't know.Haven't read the Western primary sources for
> the IIIrd, only the Muslim.
>
> here is what I found just using web-searching:
>
> http://www.outremer.co.uk/hasan.html
> Saladin did not have the physical good looks of the romantic hero.
> Steven Runciman draws on contemporary accounts to describe him:
>
> "He was short and stout, red-faced and blind in one eye; and his
> features revealed his low birth. But he was a soldier of genius; and
> few generals have been so devotedly loved by their men."
That's a description of *Shirkuh* not Saladin. What you get for trusting
websites! I'm familiar with this description of Shirkuh, but can't find it
in my Runciman. Can you?
> I don't know about this site:
> http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/196202/champion.of.the.faithful.htm
> The envoys from the Crusader camp were, therefore, much beguiled by the
> figure before them. Saladin's appearance seemed at first almost
> anticlimactic. He was a slim, dark man of 53, far below average height
> by European standards. His pointed black beard was cut in the style
> preferred by the nobles of Islam. Dressed in the spare field uniform of
> a Muslim general, he fingered the jeweled hilt of a gleaming scimitar
> at his belt.
Oh dear, this is romantic fiction.
> I'll do some looking up in the library when I get the chance.
While you're at it, how about researching "spare field uniform of a
Muslim general"? :-)
ken...@cix.compulink.co.uk
> So look for an olive-skinned actor who can do
> "intellectual" and "charming dinner companion" but isn't a hunk.
Needs to be able to do ruthless as well. After Hattin, Saladin had
the captured Hospitallers and Templars killed in cold blood. The
masters plus IIRC Reynaud de Chatelion were executed in his presence
while he was entertaining the other noble captives.
Ken Young
ken...@cix.co.uk
Maternity is a matter of fact
Paternity is a matter of opinion
David C. Pugh
news:IcidncvcMsS...@pipex.net...
> In article <xIQ7e.6771$SL4.1...@news4.e.nsc.no>,
> solom...@online.no (David C. Pugh) wrote:
>
> > So look for an olive-skinned actor who can do
> > "intellectual" and "charming dinner companion" but isn't a hunk.
>
> Needs to be able to do ruthless as well. After Hattin, Saladin had
> the captured Hospitallers and Templars killed in cold blood. The
> masters plus IIRC Reynaud de Chatelion were executed in his presence
> while he was entertaining the other noble captives.
True. Although that was a one-off. He considered them what we would now
call 'war criminals'.
Dom
> What significant historical event/s (from any century, that you
> personally find intriguing and fascinating) from medieval and
> non-medieval history, would you most like seeing made into films (not
> documentaries) or given a TV mini-series adaptation, if the subject
> matter really needs over 4 hours to be properly told and what
> particular filmmaker/s or actor/s would you like seeing involved in
> making each film, for either cinema, or as a TV mini-series over 4
> hours.
In my opinion, a n epic should be made entitled The Oath Of Brutus,
dealing with the reign of Tarquinius Superbus, his wife Tullia, and
Lucius Junius Brutus. It is a truly incredible story that has the
potential for a classic movie.
Seven years ago, I decided to read Livy's account of the expulsion of
Tarquinius, the seventh and last king of Rome. I was particularly
interested in Brutus, the founder of the Roman Republic. I cannot
express the powerful impact of reading that, after the expulsion of
Tarquinius: "His [Brutus'] first act was to make the people, while the
state of liberty was still fresh upon their tongues, swear a solemn
oath never to allow any man to be king in Rome, hoping by this means
to forestall future attempts by persuation or bribery to restore the
monarchy." [Aubrey de Selincourt, Livy: The History of Early Rome, The
Heritage Press, New York (1972) p 100]
Al Pacino or Robert DeNiro should play Brutus, and Martin Scorsese
should direct.
DR
Mike
"erilar" <erila...@SPAMchibardun.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:erilarloFRY-7E57...@news.airstreamcomm.net...
> > First we'll invent two men, one a Saxon small-holder and
> > one a Norman small holder. We will see the events leading
> > up to Hastings through their eyes.
> >
> > They meet at Hastings and one is about to kill the other
> > when he notices a ring that the one is wearing. It turns
> > out that they are brothers, separated at birth.
> >
> > At the end, they go off, arm in arm, to build a better world.
> >
> > Sex interest is developed by Edith Swan-Neck, Vikings raping
> > their way through the north, egged on by Hardrada who is
> > blond, seven feet tall, and has horns. He, of course, is
> > killed in hand-to-hand combat by Harold, but only after
> > he has Harold down on the ground when Harold uses a kung fu
> > maneuver on him and strangles Hardrada with his bare hands.
I have envisioned a keygrip falling on a mounted, rampant Godwin with sword
drawn at stamford bridge.
Sheila J
..you have to fit Viggo in there somewhere, Renia....
Yusuf B Gursey
David C. Pugh wrote:
> "Yusuf B Gursey" <y...@theworld.com> skrev i melding
> news:1113624782....@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > They're both too handsome. I don't recall Saladin being
described
> > as good-looking, as he surely would have been if that had been
vaguely
Ibn Shaddad Bahauddin does no thave any physical descriptions of him,
strangely enough.
> > > credible. Or maybe the Muslims weren't as obsessed with looks in
> > their leaders, I don't know.Haven't read the Western primary
sources for
> > the IIIrd, only the Muslim.
> >
> > here is what I found just using web-searching:
> >
> > http://www.outremer.co.uk/hasan.html
>
> > Saladin did not have the physical good looks of the romantic hero.
> > Steven Runciman draws on contemporary accounts to describe him:
> >
> > "He was short and stout, red-faced and blind in one eye; and his
> > features revealed his low birth. But he was a soldier of genius;
and
> > few generals have been so devotedly loved by their men."
>
> That's a description of *Shirkuh* not Saladin. What you get for
trusting
> websites! I'm familiar with this description of Shirkuh, but can't
find it
that's why I carefully said it was a website!
> in my Runciman. Can you?
I'll try finding the book.
maybe this book, which claims to be illustarted, may have found some
basis for depicting him may have found some description, bu thte book
is currently unavaliable to me.
Author: Slaughter, Gertrude Elizabeth (Taylor), 1870-
Title: Saladin, 1138-1193; a biography. With drawings by
Robert
Hill Taylor.
Edition: [1st ed.]
Published: New York : Exposition Press, [1955]
Description: 304 p. illus. 21 cm.
>
> > I don't know about this site:
> >
http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/196202/champion.of.the.faithful.htm
>
> > The envoys from the Crusader camp were, therefore, much beguiled by
the
> > figure before them. Saladin's appearance seemed at first almost
> > anticlimactic. He was a slim, dark man of 53, far below average
height
> > by European standards. His pointed black beard was cut in the style
> > preferred by the nobles of Islam. Dressed in the spare field
uniform of
> > a Muslim general, he fingered the jeweled hilt of a gleaming
scimitar
> > at his belt.
>
> Oh dear, this is romantic fiction.
>
> > I'll do some looking up in the library when I get the chance.
>
> While you're at it, how about researching "spare field uniform of
a
> Muslim general"? :-)
dunoo fo rthat period, but I have seen Mamluk and Ottoman armour for
later periods in Topkapi Museum.
Yusuf B Gursey
David C. Pugh wrote:
> <afro...@yahoo.com> skrev i melding
> news:1113586696.1...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> > Great suggestions. I'm glad you found a part for Jude Law. As for
> > Saladin, would this be crazy or terribly clever, how about Johnny
Depp?
>
> Interesting idea, I think Depp could do just about anything if
his heart
> was in it.
>
> > Or Jochim Phoenix?
>
as
> good-looking, as he surely would have been if that had been vaguely
their
> leaders, I don't know.Haven't read the Western primary sources for
the
> IIIrd, only the Muslim.
his family came from around Georgia, so he may have looked like NE
Anatolian Kurds I know.
David C. Pugh
(Saladin)
> his family came from around Georgia, so he may have looked like NE
> Anatolian Kurds I know.
That far north?
David C. Pugh
> > > > They're both too handsome. I don't recall Saladin being
> described as good-looking, as he surely would have been if that had been
> vaguely
>
> Ibn Shaddad Bahauddin does no thave any physical descriptions of him,
> strangely enough.
This could mean that Saladin was no oil painting, and Baha' ad-Din
couldn't portray him as handsome without looking like an idiot, what with
thousands of people still around who'd known him. So he says nothing at all.
> > > "He was short and stout, red-faced and blind in one eye; and his
> > > features revealed his low birth. But he was a soldier of genius;
> and few generals have been so devotedly loved by their men."
> >
> > That's a description of *Shirkuh* not Saladin. What you get for
> trusting websites! I'm familiar with this description of Shirkuh, but
can't
> find it
>
> that's why I carefully said it was a website!
Fair enough, but I was very shocked -- at the website. That was a real
howler.
> > in my Runciman. Can you?
>
> I'll try finding the book.
I have the book on my shelf, but can't find the physical description of
Shirkuh in it. Either I'm blind, or it's in something other than Runciman,
which is two serious strikes against the website.
> maybe this book, which claims to be illustarted, may have found some
> basis for depicting him may have found some description, bu thte book
> is currently unavaliable to me.
>
> > Author: Slaughter, Gertrude Elizabeth (Taylor), 1870-
>
> Title: Saladin, 1138-1193; a biography. With drawings by
> Robert
> Hill Taylor.
>
> Edition: [1st ed.]
>
> Published: New York : Exposition Press, [1955]
Never heard of that -- if it isn't available to you, I doubt I could
find it up here.
Yusuf B Gursey
David C. Pugh wrote:
>
> I have the book on my shelf, but can't find the physical
description of
> Shirkuh in it. Either I'm blind, or it's in something other than
Runciman,
> which is two serious strikes against the website.
>
> > maybe this book, which claims to be illustarted, may have found
some
> > basis for depicting him may have found some description, bu thte
book
> > is currently unavaliable to me.
> >
> > > Author: Slaughter, Gertrude Elizabeth (Taylor), 1870-
> >
> > Title: Saladin, 1138-1193; a biography. With drawings
by
> > Robert
> > Hill Taylor.
> >
> > Edition: [1st ed.]
> >
> > Published: New York : Exposition Press, [1955]
>
> Never heard of that -- if it isn't available to you, I doubt I
could
> find it up here.
it got checked out just before I was reaching fot it!
Yusuf B Gursey
David C. Pugh wrote:
> "Yusuf B Gursey" <y...@theworld.com> skrev i melding
> news:1113683670.7...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
> (Saladin)
>
> > his family came from around Georgia, so he may have looked like NE
> > Anatolian Kurds I know.
>
> That far north?
that's what all the references say.
he was born in Takrit because his fater was appointed governor there.
a kurdish origin guy from NE Anatolian guy reminds me of the youth of
Giancarlo Giannini, if that is of any signifance.
Renia
> ...you have to fit Viggo in there somewhere, Renia....
Yeah, yeah, problem. Has to be William Giffard, then.
(Don't forget, I meant Sean C for Edward.)
Renia
Paul J Gans
Bernardz
y...@theworld.com says...
> Genghis Khan would be nice as a remake (this one more factual or at
> least more loyal to the chronicles and with actual asian people in the
> cast), though this guy does suffer a bit of a PR problem. anyone but a
> John Wayne (as in the previous flick about Genghis)clone in the cast.
>
On a similar topic, what about the battle of Ayn Jalut, in Palestine.
Problem I don't know if it would be marketable to Hollywood.
--
It is frightening when you read many of these posts and you realize that
most have been carefully thought out before posting.
Observations of Bernard - No 73
Yusuf B Gursey
Bernardz wrote:
> In article <1113594098....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> y...@theworld.com says...
> > Genghis Khan would be nice as a remake (this one more factual or at
> > least more loyal to the chronicles and with actual asian people in
the
> > cast), though this guy does suffer a bit of a PR problem. anyone
but a
> > John Wayne (as in the previous flick about Genghis)clone in the
cast.
> >
>
>
> On a similar topic, what about the battle of Ayn Jalut, in Palestine.
>
> Problem I don't know if it would be marketable to Hollywood.
I'd love to see anything middle eastern or central asiatic. combos are
even better. there ought to be some countries that could pool resources
to make them.
Sheila J
Have you seen the new advances for a new movie about the crusades? I
can't remember the name but I do think it has Orlando Bloom in it....
Yusuf B Gursey
Sheila J wrote:
> Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
>
> > Bernardz wrote:
> >
> >>In article <1113594098....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> >>y...@theworld.com says...
> >>
> >>>Genghis Khan would be nice as a remake (this one more factual or
at
> >>>least more loyal to the chronicles and with actual asian people in
> >
> > the
> >
> >>>cast), though this guy does suffer a bit of a PR problem. anyone
> >
> > but a
> >
> >>>John Wayne (as in the previous flick about Genghis)clone in the
> >
> > cast.
> >
> >>
> >>On a similar topic, what about the battle of Ayn Jalut, in
Palestine.
> >>
> >>Problem I don't know if it would be marketable to Hollywood.
> >
> >
> > I'd love to see anything middle eastern or central asiatic. combos
are
meaning during medieval (or post-medieval) or ancient times.
political stuff does not go under "entertainment"
> > even better. there ought to be some countries that could pool
resources
> > to make them.
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>--
>
>
> Have you seen the new advances for a new movie about the crusades? I
> can't remember the name but I do think it has Orlando Bloom in it....
"Kingdom of Heaven".
the last poster I saw said "Orlando Bloom", but I am not thatmuch into
actor's faces.
Yusuf B Gursey
David C. Pugh wrote:
> "Yusuf B Gursey" <y...@theworld.com> skrev i melding
> news:1113683518.1...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> > > > > They're both too handsome. I don't recall Saladin being
> > described as good-looking, as he surely would have been if that
had been
> > vaguely
> >
> > Ibn Shaddad Bahauddin does no thave any physical descriptions of
him,
> > strangely enough.
>
> This could mean that Saladin was no oil painting, and Baha'
ad-Din
> couldn't portray him as handsome without looking like an idiot, what
with
> thousands of people still around who'd known him. So he says nothing
at all.
>
yes, that would be the best explanation.
Bernardz
y...@theworld.com says...
> > On a similar topic, what about the battle of Ayn Jalut, in Palestine.
> >
> > Problem I don't know if it would be marketable to Hollywood.
>
> I'd love to see anything middle eastern or central asiatic. combos are
> even better. there ought to be some countries that could pool resources
> to make them.
>
>
The problem is not getting the money to make it but getting enough
people to see it. A modern film needs a world wide audience.
Unless you have a theme that most of the world can identify with its
hopeless.
Yusuf B Gursey
Bernardz wrote:
> In article <1113740219.3...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
> y...@theworld.com says...
> > > On a similar topic, what about the battle of Ayn Jalut, in
Palestine.
> > >
> > > Problem I don't know if it would be marketable to Hollywood.
> >
> > I'd love to see anything middle eastern or central asiatic. combos
are
> > even better. there ought to be some countries that could pool
resources
> > to make them.
> >
> >
>
> The problem is not getting the money to make it but getting enough
> people to see it. A modern film needs a world wide audience.
there is still such a thing as local film industry and also some
that are seen only in certain cultural areas, such as films about
these regions seen in these only. I have seen Arab made (and some
turkish made) films about the Muslim-Arab conquest of Syria and Iraq on
Turkish TV during Ramadhan, though it had as much drama as the
traditional chronicles themselves (perhaps even less, as Tabari inserts
colorful poems between the narrative).
the Mongol conquest is a bit more problematical outside the Arab world,
as it raises ideological divisions between Islamists and Turanists
etc.. not subscribing to either, I would just enjoy the action and
depiction.
Bernardz
y...@theworld.com says...
>
> Bernardz wrote:
> > In article <1113740219.3...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
> > y...@theworld.com says...
> > > > On a similar topic, what about the battle of Ayn Jalut, in
> Palestine.
> > > >
> > > > Problem I don't know if it would be marketable to Hollywood.
> > >
> > > I'd love to see anything middle eastern or central asiatic. combos
> are
> > > even better. there ought to be some countries that could pool
> resources
> > > to make them.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > The problem is not getting the money to make it but getting enough
> > people to see it. A modern film needs a world wide audience.
>
> there is still such a thing as local film industry and also some
> that are seen only in certain cultural areas, such as films about
> these regions seen in these only. I have seen Arab made (and some
> turkish made) films about the Muslim-Arab conquest of Syria and Iraq on
> Turkish TV during Ramadhan, though it had as much drama as the
> traditional chronicles themselves (perhaps even less, as Tabari inserts
> colorful poems between the narrative).
Can you recommend a few good ones please? Even some TV movies would be
fine with English subtitles.
I used to watch Egyptian movies a lot but the problem is they don't seem
to be into historical movies although I did like some of the comedies.
>
> the Mongol conquest is a bit more problematical outside the Arab world,
> as it raises ideological divisions between Islamists and Turanists
> etc.. not subscribing to either, I would just enjoy the action and
> depiction.
The same would be of the Turkish ones.
>
> >
> > Unless you have a theme that most of the world can identify with its
> > hopeless.
>
>
--
Julian Richards
<Berna...@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote:
>Can you recommend a few good ones please? Even some TV movies would be
>fine with English subtitles.
>
>I used to watch Egyptian movies a lot but the problem is they don't seem
>to be into historical movies although I did like some of the comedies.
I've got a satellite dish pulling channels off the HotBird and Astra 1
groups and that gives plenty of channels like the Egyptian ones but
very few use English subtitles, the notable exceptions being Ireb1 and
Ireb 2 which rebroadcast with English dialogue or subtitles. I watched
a Tehran police drama with subtitles a few weeks ago. Not too bad.
--
Julian Richards
medieval "at" richardsuk.f9.co.uk
Usenet is how from the comfort of your own living room, you can converse
with people that you would never want in your house.
THIS MESSAGE WAS POSTED FROM SOC.HISTORY.MEDIEVAL
Yusuf B Gursey
unfortunately I do not remember the titles, they just happened to be
what was available on TV at the time. I had also elsewhere seen an
excerpt from an arab film about Queen Zenobia of Palmyra (rebelled
against the Romans).
there were also a turkish film about the Caliph Omar. well, perhaps in
this genre there is also "the Message" (some religious conservatives
didn't like it on principle, but it showed on turkish TV a lot), a
european / libyan / moroccan production (with seperate arabic and
english (with Anthony Quinn, Irene Papas) versions with different
castes), the only film about Muhammad (not depicted in person, you only
see his camel, basically he is portrayed by the camera). I also saw an
excerpt from the arabic version and seeing Hind (wife of the pagan
chieftain) bicker for a bargain in classical arabic gave me quite a
chickle.
as for Turkish films there is (disregarding early films where "Mehmed
the Conqueror's wristwatch shows!) "Istanbul Under my Wings" about the
17th century glider filght across the Bosphorus, loosely based on
Evliya C,elebi's account. there were a lot of anchronisms (some
deliberate, which some hailed as making it "post-modern"). I was
impressed by the last line by Murad IV as being "very realistic", but
this turned out to be a historical quote rather than skill on the part
of the screenwriter. there was also "Harem Soiree" loosely based on the
last days of the Harem under Abdulhamid II before him being deposed
1908, but many of the depictions really belonged to much earlier
periods. the palace costumes are sometimes genuine.
there are also films on legends and romances like Layla and Majnun
(several version, incl. turkish ones). IIRC I had heard film projects
on Dede Korkut (turkish / kazakh) and Manas (kyrgyz).
>
> I used to watch Egyptian movies a lot but the problem is they don't
seem
> to be into historical movies although I did like some of the
comedies.
>
AFAIK most are soap operas with singing and dancing. similar ones are
found plenty in Turkey and India. recently there are films on
contemporary social issues.
Yusuf B Gursey
> >
> > > I'd also like to see the third Crusade. And I'd like to see it
> > > portrayed without making Richard the Lion Hearted as the hero!
Not
> > > sure who I'd like to see direct it, though. Or who I'd like to
see
> > > perform in it. Definitely not Brad Pitt. And no Mel Gibson
under
> any
> > > circumstances. Jude Law isn't beefy enough. Russell Crowe might
> be
> > > too beefy.
> >
> > I don't think you can be beefy enough for a knight. Blacksmith
> > shoulders.
> >
> > Oh! Vigo Mortensten might make a good Richard!
> >
> > He might like to play a bad guy for a change :-)
> >
> > Jude Law for Guy de Lusignan.
> >
> > Now who
> > > would we have as Saladin?
> >
> > You should get Naveen Andrews as some Muslim warrior or other,
> he's
> > currently showing quite respectable shoulders in "Lost". But not as
> Saladin,
> > because I understand that he was actually a bookish type. I've
never
> seen a
> > physical description, it's probably in a passage of Baha' ad-Din
that
> hasn't
> > been anthologised, So look for an olive-skinned actor who can do
> > "intellectual" and "charming dinner companion" but isn't a hunk.
>
> he's anglo-sudanese (for sudan quite light skinned) and with a
british
> accent. a year ago I had seen on a website that he was scheduled to
> play in a crusade-era cinema adventure around these times.
oh, it turns out to be "Kingdom of Heaven" he plays the arab knight
Nasir.
and the syrian actor in "Kingdom of Heaven" playing Saladin does in
fact remind me very much of NE Anatolian kurdish friend (I had fancied
Saladin looking like him in another post in this thread).
>
> more the Hollywood image woudl be Antonio Banderas.