French President Sarkozy Says Burqas Are 'Not Welcome' In France
D. Spencer Hines
Burqas Should Not Be Welcome In The United States Either.
----
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
------------------------------------------
Sarkozy says burqas are 'not welcome' in France
Jun 22 10:24 AM US/Eastern
PARIS (AP) - President Nicolas Sarkozy lashed out Monday at the practice
of wearing the Muslim burqa, insisting the full-body religious gown is a
sign of the "debasement" of women and that it won't be welcome in France.
Excellent! -- DSH
The French leader expressed support for a recent call by dozens of
legislators to create a parliamentary commission to study a small but
growing trend of wearing the full-body garment in France.
In the first presidential address in 136 years to a joint session of
France's two houses of parliament, Sarkozy laid out his support for a ban
even before the panel has been approved � braving critics who fear the
issue is a marginal one and could stigmatize Muslims in France.
"In our country, we cannot accept that women be prisoners behind a screen,
cut off from all social life, deprived of all identity," Sarkozy said to
extended applause in a speech at the Chateau of Versailles southwest of
Paris.
True. -- DSH
"The burqa is not a religious sign, it's a sign of subservience, a sign
of debasement � I want to say it solemnly," he said. "It will not be
welcome on the territory of the French Republic."
Excellent! It is directly counter to the Great Principles of the French
Culture, Liberty, Equality, Fraternity -- as well as those of the American
Culture. -- DSH
In France, the terms "burqa" and "niqab" often are used interchangeably.
The former refers to a full-body covering worn largely in Afghanistan with
only a mesh screen over the eyes, whereas the latter is a full-body veil,
often in black, with slits for the eyes.
Later Monday, Sarkozy was expected to host a state dinner with Sheik Hamad
Bin Jassem Al Thani of Qatar. Many women in the Persian Gulf state wear
Islamic head coverings in public � whether while shopping or driving cars.
So, let them wear it in Qatar but NOT in France OR the United States,
outside the home. -- DSH
France enacted a law in 2004 banning the Islamic headscarf and other
conspicuous religious symbols from public schools, sparking fierce debate
at home and abroad. France has Western Europe's largest Muslim
population, an estimated 5 million people.
A government spokesman said Friday that it would seek to set up a
parliamentary commission that could propose legislation aimed at barring
Muslim women from wearing the head-to-toe gowns outside the home.
Excellent! -- DSH
The issue is highly divisive even within the government. France's junior
minister for human rights, Rama Yade, said she was open to a ban if it is
aimed at protecting women forced to wear the burqa.
But Immigration Minister Eric Besson said a ban would only "create
tensions."
A leading French Muslim group warned against studying the burqa.
-------------------------------
Absurd! -- DSH
Burqas and Niqabs also serve as convenient disguises for Islamofascist
Jihadist Terrorists and Homicide Bombers -- so that's another good reason
for prohibiting them.
--
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
Veni, Vidi, Calcitravi Asinum
Raymond O'Hara
"D. Spencer Hines" <pan...@excelsior.net> wrote in message
news:N%O%l.893$J6....@eagle.america.net...
> Sarkozy Is Right Too...
>
> Burqas Should Not Be Welcome In The United States Either.
you can dress as you damn well please in the U.S. and it is good that is
so.
Tiglath
> Sarkozy Is Right Too...
>
No piecemeal improvements; what the world needs is a Comprehensive
Islamic Reform, since abolition would be unrealistic.
Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D.
First, let's fix our own house with a Comprehensive Christian Reform.
Then we can throw stones.
;-)
Jack Pine Savage
"Raymond O'Hara" <raymon...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:h1of20$qlr$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
What color of burkha do you wear, ohaha?
>
>
Raymond O'Hara
"Jack Pine Savage" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:7aafidF...@mid.individual.net...
sieg heil fakenamer,
Billzz
Just to mention some real world stuff, my wife and I know an Egyptian family
well enough that my wife stays with them, in Cairo, when I am not there.
They are both from highly-placed families and she is a graduate of the
American University, in Cairo, and he is an archeologist, who does tours.
They both speak English; she could be mistaken for an American. Years ago
she wore jeans and tops like any college student, but somewhere along the
way thought that she should be more in line with Islam and now dresses with
the full robe and headress, which, Egyptian style, does not cover the face.
They want to return to the US, he has visited before, and they have
relatives here. But now she is worried about the dress, and the propaganda
news that they get. We know Egyptian families here, and it seems no
problem, and my wife even met a stranger, in a store, and recognizing the
dress asked her, and she said no problem.
This summer, he is coming to visit us, alone, which is not a problem, but
I'm thinking that he is checking the place out, for his wife, and now they
have three children, who, naturally, wear only Mickey Mouse Club clothes.
It will be no problem, but all this talk of "banning burkhas" does no help
in world understanding. Underneath the clothing they are human beings, and
if treated like human beings will probably be more welcoming.
Well, that's my two cents, and sorry I took up your time.
Jack Pine Savage
Godwin. FOAD, ohaha
>
>
J Antero
"D. Spencer Hines" <pan...@excelsior.net> wrote in message
news:N%O%l.893$J6....@eagle.america.net...
>
> Burqas Should Not Be Welcome In The United States Either.
> ----
> DSH
> Lux et Veritas et Libertas
> Vires et Honor
> ------------------------------------------
>
> Sarkozy says burqas are 'not welcome' in France
As few showers as a lot of those frogettes take, maybe they should wear
those tent things, too.
D. Spencer Hines
Egyptians have a different culture and customs in Egypt.
We Americans don't have any obligation to honor all the customs that
prevail in a Muslim Nation....
Neither do the French.
Raymond O'Hara
godwin doesn't apply when its true.
Raymond O'Hara
> We have our culture and customs here in the United States.
>
> Egyptians have a different culture and customs in Egypt.
>
> We Americans don't have any obligation to honor all the customs that
> prevail in a Muslim Nation....
>
> Neither do the French.
and one American tradition is you can dress as you damn well please.
Dennis
> Sarkozy says burqas are 'not welcome' in France
What about the UK? Burqa and Hair?...
Jack Pine Savage
Godwin. By the way, ohaha, you haven't answered the question yet, what
color of burkha do you wear?
>
>
David H Singanas
> "Raymond O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:h1ph2p$e8s$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Jack Pine Savage" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
> >news:7aanq7F...@mid.individual.net...
>
> >>news:h1p45a$a2i$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> >>> "Jack Pine Savage" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
> >>>news:7aafidF...@mid.individual.net...
>
> >>>>news:h1of20$qlr$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> >>>>> "D. Spencer Hines" <pant...@excelsior.net> wrote in message
> >>>>>news:N%O%l.893$J6....@eagle.america.net...
> >>>>>> Sarkozy Is Right Too...
>
> >>>>>> Burqas Should Not Be Welcome In The United States Either.
>
> >>>>> you can dress as you damn well please in the U.S. and it is good that
> >>>>> is so.
>
> >>>> What color of burkha do you wear, ohaha?
>
> >>> sieg heil fakenamer,
>
> >> Godwin. FOAD, ohaha
>
> > godwin doesn't apply when its true.
>
> Godwin. By the way, ohaha, you haven't answered the question yet, what
> color of burkha do you wear?
>
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jacko, Ohaha didn't answer you the first time because it's
a homo flame question.
The Grand Mufti of Marseilles has issued a fatwah that all
French Muslim females remove their face and hair coverings
when in public.
Not so long ago American women wore veils as well as hats in
public places. The homeland security issue regarding Muslim
dress will not surface until a terrorist has used a burqa to hide
his AK-47 or backpack full of explosives.
When a dozen or so Americans get vaporised by a terrorist in
burqa raiments, only then will we get a Federal law banning
burqas and Hawaiian mu mu's. Of course the law will be
contested by fat Americans, and the Supreme Court will have
to rule on their heavy challenge.
Cheers, David H
~~~~~~~~~
La N
I haven't read through all this thread, but I always make time to read your
posts, Colonel.
I was once talking with a Muslim woman about the wearing of the burkha
(actually, I think her attire was referred to as something else). She was
quite defensive - and rightly so - saying something to the effect that
believe it or not "many of us (Muslim) women are given the choice, and many
of us do not see the allure in dressing in the way of American icons such as
Brittney Spears" (with low-riding jeans, breasts protruding from the tops of
their blouses). She certainly has a point, and it is really something [for
a man] to be able to relate to [a woman] on an intellectual level using eye
contact rather than staring at her breasts or hips.
- nilita
William Black
It makes you wonder why they don't wear them in South Asia...
There the Brittney Spears image is considered equally offensive.
But very few Muslim women wear the full 'bat' outfit.
--
William Black
Jack Linthicum
> Billzz wrote:
> > "Jack Pine Savage" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
> >news:7aafidF...@mid.individual.net...
>
> >>news:h1of20$qlr$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> >>> "D. Spencer Hines" <pant...@excelsior.net> wrote in message
Just in case someone thinks its a Muslim thing. This reminds me of
custom/rule from the turn of the 19th/20th that Jewish women would
only appear to strangers wearing a wig. "In mein own hair?" was the
quote one women is recorded as saying, like going naked in the street.
Jewish Modesty Warriors Take Up Burkas
Nobody's forcing them, but they want to cover up
Tamar Fox
by Tamar Fox, February 1, 2008
14 comments
TAGS:
* In the News
Y-Love, over at Jewlicious, calls attention to a crazy new trend in
the ultra-Orthodox community. A small group of women in Israel, intent
on being as uber-modest as possible, have started voluntarily wearing
burkas and hijabs. Y-Love links to and quotes from Muqata blog, which
has translated part of the Haaretz article about the new fashion move:
Appropriate for Synagogue: and mosque, too.Appropriate for Synagogue:
and mosque, too.
A group of Ultra-Orthodox chareidi women in Ramat Beit Shemesh
have hyperbolated tznius [laws of modesty] to the extreme and now wear
burkas whenever they go outside their home. Not advocated by any known
rabbi, the burka fad is apparently a radical ultra-Orthodox feminist
"invention", and many are wary of this custom being adopted or
repudiated. The radical Beit Shemesh tznius patrol is even scratching
it's head whether someone managed to out do them, and leave them in
the dust with the liberal left.
The husband of one such woman took his wife to Beit Din (religious
court) to request from her to remove the burka due to shalom bayit (a
peaceful home). The court ordered a religious divorce even though the
husband didn't even request one -- because the court found her
behaviour to be so bizarre.
Mother in Israel posts some truly unbelievable pictures, and the issue
is being discussed everywhere from the Forward’s Bintel Brief to the
Lilith blog where Friend of Jewcy Rebecca Honig Friedman writes:
They are adopting the ideal of modesty that to some extent has
been ingrained in them by male religious authority (and no doubt by
female authorities, too), but they are doing so on their own terms.
They are taking the power of dictating women’s dress away from the
male religious authorities in their community, deciding for themselves
what modesty means and, in classic fashion, being persecuted for it.
These women have the right to wear whatever they want, but we
should also question the values that have led them to such extreme
decisions, and the society that perpetuates those values.
I’ll be the first to admit it: there are days when I would happily put
on a burka so as not to have to spend half an hour blow-drying my hair
and putting on makeup in order to be presentable. And I think the
visceral negative reaction to burkas has more to do with the
mistreatment of women in Afghanistan and other Muslim countries than
with the burka itself (and anyway, all of the pictures I’ve seen so
far are not of women in burkas, they’re of women wearing jilbab). Do I
think the women in Ramat Beit Shemesh are going overboard? Absolutely.
But though I find it all pretty strange, it’s not as offensive as if
they were being told to wear jilbab by their rabbis, which, no doubt,
is just round the bend.
http://www.jewcy.com/faithhacker/jewish_modesty_warriors_take_burkas
La N
Religious writer/philosopher and former Catholic Nun, Karen Armstrong (a
fascinating read IMHO) even defended the wearing of religious coverings,
including a nun's habit, for the same reason. Some women prefer to dress
modestly and be related to, possibly, for their intellect/personality, etc.
Again, it's about personal choice, as she pointed out.
- nilita
Tommy L.
> On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:54:20 GMT, "La N" <nilita20...@yahoo.com>
> wrote this crap:
>
>
>
>>believe it or not "many of us (Muslim) women are given the choice, and many
>>of us do not see the allure in dressing in the way of American icons such as
>>Brittney Spears" (with low-riding jeans, breasts protruding from the tops of
>>their blouses). She certainly has a point, and it is really something [for
>>a man] to be able to relate to [a woman] on an intellectual level using eye
>>contact rather than staring at her breasts or hips.
>>
>>- nilita
>>
>
>
> No woman who can possibly reach my intellectual level wants to talk to
> me. They want to talk to my wallet.
Ha Ha Ha!!!
Are you a Tom Leykis fan?
>
> Remember to vote for Palin-Ahhnold in 2012.
>
>
> Hor...@Horvath.net
>
> My T-shirt says, "This shirt is the
> ultimate power in the universe."
William Black
As I said, it's political...
--
William Black
meport
in some Arabic country) who was/is wearing a burqa's? THEY STINK!!!! The
smell is nauseating!!!!
I don't know how may yards of cloth one of those thing is made out of, but
it must be a bunch. To get one of those things clean must be a very major
task that the Arabic Women forgo for what ever reason (probably the cost of
cleaning it). It's evident that Arabic clothing was designed for a climate
where the relative humidity is never more than 10 or 20% and where clothing
remain dry because any perspiration immediately evaporates. Thus cloth
doesn't become saturated with sweat and body odor doesn't start to saturate
the fabric.
When an Arabic Woman comes here, and unless they live in Arizona, in parts
of New Mexico or in Southern California inland from the coast, it's a sure
bet that they reside in an area where there are very, very few days when the
humidity is less than 40% on average. Sweat builds up and cloth becomes
saturated with sweat. Unless the cloth is washed very, very often, it
starts to smell.
And smell they do.
--
meport
"D. Spencer Hines" <pan...@excelsior.net> wrote in message
news:N%O%l.893$J6....@eagle.america.net...
> Sarkozy Is Right Too...
>
> Burqas Should Not Be Welcome In The United States Either.
> ----
> DSH
> Lux et Veritas et Libertas
> Vires et Honor
> ------------------------------------------
>
> Sarkozy says burqas are 'not welcome' in France
>
> Jun 22 10:24 AM US/Eastern
>
> PARIS (AP) - President Nicolas Sarkozy lashed out Monday at the practice
> of wearing the Muslim burqa, insisting the full-body religious gown is a
> sign of the "debasement" of women and that it won't be welcome in France.
>
> Excellent! -- DSH
>
> The French leader expressed support for a recent call by dozens of
> legislators to create a parliamentary commission to study a small but
> growing trend of wearing the full-body garment in France.
>
> In the first presidential address in 136 years to a joint session of
> France's two houses of parliament, Sarkozy laid out his support for a ban
> even before the panel has been approved - braving critics who fear the
> issue is a marginal one and could stigmatize Muslims in France.
>
> "In our country, we cannot accept that women be prisoners behind a screen,
> cut off from all social life, deprived of all identity," Sarkozy said to
> extended applause in a speech at the Chateau of Versailles southwest of
> Paris.
>
> True. -- DSH
>
> "The burqa is not a religious sign, it's a sign of subservience, a sign
> of debasement - I want to say it solemnly," he said. "It will not be
> welcome on the territory of the French Republic."
>
> Excellent! It is directly counter to the Great Principles of the French
> Culture, Liberty, Equality, Fraternity -- as well as those of the American
> Culture. -- DSH
>
> In France, the terms "burqa" and "niqab" often are used interchangeably.
> The former refers to a full-body covering worn largely in Afghanistan with
> only a mesh screen over the eyes, whereas the latter is a full-body veil,
> often in black, with slits for the eyes.
>
> Later Monday, Sarkozy was expected to host a state dinner with Sheik Hamad
> Bin Jassem Al Thani of Qatar. Many women in the Persian Gulf state wear
> Islamic head coverings in public - whether while shopping or driving cars.
Stanley Moore
"La N" <nilita20...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MU60m.31927$Db2.21161@edtnps83...
There is a middle ground however. A midpoint between a Britney style costume
and a burkha. Both garbs make a public statement but millions of American
women (and women around the world) wear modest comfortable clothes that show
individual style. Take care
--
Stanley L. Moore
"The belief in a supernatural
source of evil is not necessary;
men alone are quite capable
of every wickedness."
Joseph Conrad
marika
"J Antero" <a...@xyz.com> wrote in message
news:VLadneOL3clos93X...@earthlink.com...
>
>
> As few showers as a lot of those frogettes take, maybe they should wear
> those tent things, too.
>
>
That's foolish. That would make them sweatier
mk5000
DLA Piper announces pay cuts, new compensation model
Leigh Jones
May 15, 2009
DLA Piper is slashing salaries for its U.S. associates in conjunction with
an announcement that the law firm is shifting to merit-based compensation.
The law firm will reduce first-year associate salaries in major markets from
$160,000 to $145,000. First-year salaries of $145,000 in other cities will
drop to $130,000.
It will cut salaries at other class levels on a case-by-case basis, based on
performance and class year. The firm has about 550 associates in the United
States.
DLA Piper announced the changes Friday in a firmwide memo written by Global
Chairman Frank Burch Jr., Joint Chief Executive Lee Miller and U.S. managing
partner Terry O'Malley. The memo stated that the three firm leaders
themselves and other partners had taken "significant reductions" in their
projected 2009 compensation. It also said that the firm had reduced
compensation for senior counsel and of counsel attorneys.
The memo stated that changes were based on the downturn in the economy and
on client needs.
marika
> (actually, I think her attire was referred to as something else). She was
> quite defensive - and rightly so - saying something to the effect that
> believe it or not "many of us (Muslim) women are given the choice, and
> many of us do not see the allure in dressing in the way of American icons
> such as Brittney Spears" (with low-riding jeans, breasts protruding from
> the tops of their blouses). She certainly has a point, and it is really
> something [for a man] to be able to relate to [a woman] on an intellectual
> level using eye contact rather than staring at her breasts or hips.
>
> - nilita
I've heard a number of USian muslim women say this. I have not heard any in
countries where Al Qaeda and Taliban have a majority. I am obviously basing
my opinion on a book rather than a live person. I think it was in a
Thousand Splendid Suns. The main Afghan female character was given in
marriage to a man who handed her a burka and gave her the choice. More or
less by my recollection, he said, I would prefer for you to wear this for
modesty's sake. He had peer pressure from the Taliban controlled occupants
of his village. She had peer pressure from the occupants of the village.
Prior to that she happily strode around in a perfectly modest outfit except
she didn't look like a beekeeper. So when she was given the choice what was
she to say. No? What kind of choice is it for a woman, who was previously
perfectly modestly attired except that her face was showing, to be told by
society that she has a choice but she better do it risk ostracism and
perhaps worse. Perhaps divorce. Perhaps her husband's clientele will cease
doing business with him because his wife doesn't look like a beekeeper.
The brainwashed will always say things like "I had a choice". Kind of a
Stockholm syndrome.
mk5000
Seven from Trinidad go on trial for hostage taking
Choice of American victim brings island crime to D.C. court.
Jordan Weissmann
May 18, 2009
In April 2005, Balram Maharaj, a naturalized American citizen, was kidnapped
at gunpoint from a bar in his native Trinidad. His captors demanded $500,000
for his release. After a week cut off from his daily medicines, Maharaj, who
had diabetes and had recently suffered a stroke, died. The 61-year-old's
body was cut apart and buried.
But he was not forgotten. Four years after his death, Maharaj's case has
become one of the largest, most complex examples of a little-discussed
specialty of the U.S. Attorney's Office for the District of Columbia:
prosecuting those who take Ameri�cans hostage overseas for ransom.
Since 2000, the U.S. attorney's office has brought eight criminal
hostage-taking cases - that is, kidnappings with no link to terrorism. None
of the other cases have involved more than four defendants. In most, the
victim survived to identify his captors. In some, suspects were caught with
the victim or fleeing from police.
The Maharaj case is different. The FBI's investigation dragged on for nine
months before an arrest was made. Prosecutors spent more than two years
extraditing the suspects. Seven alleged co-conspirators go on trial in the
U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia this week. Four more have
pleaded guilty. One has been acquitted. One still sits in jail in Trinidad.
And the victim is dead.
The prosecutors come from the federal major crimes section of the U.S.
attorney's office in Washington, which handles international crimes not
related to terrorism. (Cases with a terrorist link are prosecuted by the
national security section.) Federal law provides that crimes against
Americans overseas should be prosecuted in the District when the suspect has
no ties to any state.
"If you're going to take our citizens hostage, if you're going to abuse them
or kill them, we have an interest in that, no matter where in the world you
do it," said Patricia Stewart, chief of the federal major crimes section.
marika
"David H Singanas" <davidh...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9c517510-1605-4d0b...@f19g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
>When a dozen or so Americans get vaporised by a terrorist in
>burqa raiments, only then will we get a Federal law banning
>burqas and Hawaiian mu mu's. Of course the law will be
>contested by fat Americans, and the Supreme Court will have
>to rule on their heavy challenge.
i would love to defend a client on either side of that debate, but I
wouldn't take it pro bono
mk5000
http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202430709617
NLJ ROUNDTABLE
Economic crisis brings pro bono to crossroads
Scholars, practitioners and students weigh in on changes to legal services
for the poor.
May 18, 2009
The National Law Journal and the Association of American Law Schools on
April 4 sponsored "Pro Bono and the Economic Crisis: The Impact on Education
and Practice." The event was part of the Building a Better Legal
Profession's (BBLP) Inaugural Student Leadership Conference at Stanford Law
School. Attending the roundtable were students participating in the BBLP
conference.
Each member of the roundtable opened with remarks about the current state of
pro bono representation. They then answered questions posed by students from
the audience.
DEBORAH RHODE: You already are busy people, and you will find that finding
time to do pro bono work and, even more, to create institutional change that
will make it possible, is a time-consuming proposition. It's hard, and in a
profession where we've seen an escalation of billable hours over the last
couple decades, what hasn't changed is the number of hours in a day. It's
hard to carve out that kind of time for the hard work of institutional
change, but it's enormously important that you make that time, and that work
on issues of social justice and fairness is not just essential for our
profession; it's also one of the most fulfilling things you can do with your
life.
Still, less than half of this nation's law students graduate with a pro bono
experience, let alone a well-supervised one. I'm reminded of the importance
of this when I think back at my experience at Yale....At that time, there
was no pro bono program at all, and there were, however, some clinics, and
my best experience and, in fact, the experience that kept me in law school
was working in a poverty law office.
I will tell you once again that money has done a lot of good things for me
in my life, but there's nothing more satisfying than being able to send a
message with your own resources. So if we want lawyers to take professional
responsibility seriously, then we all have a personal responsibility to
model it in our conduct and our priorities.
marika
"Jack Linthicum" <jackli...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:f02cc2e1-cae3-4b84...@k20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
* In the News
is being discussed everywhere from the Forward�s Bintel Brief to the
Lilith blog where Friend of Jewcy Rebecca Honig Friedman writes:
They are adopting the ideal of modesty that to some extent has
been ingrained in them by male religious authority (and no doubt by
female authorities, too), but they are doing so on their own terms.
They are taking the power of dictating women�s dress away from the
male religious authorities in their community, deciding for themselves
what modesty means and, in classic fashion, being persecuted for it.
These women have the right to wear whatever they want, but we
should also question the values that have led them to such extreme
decisions, and the society that perpetuates those values.
I�ll be the first to admit it: there are days when I would happily put
on a burka so as not to have to spend half an hour blow-drying my hair
and putting on makeup in order to be presentable. And I think the
visceral negative reaction to burkas has more to do with the
mistreatment of women in Afghanistan and other Muslim countries than
with the burka itself (and anyway, all of the pictures I�ve seen so
far are not of women in burkas, they�re of women wearing jilbab). Do I
think the women in Ramat Beit Shemesh are going overboard? Absolutely.
But though I find it all pretty strange, it�s not as offensive as if
they were being told to wear jilbab by their rabbis, which, no doubt,
is just round the bend.
http://www.jewcy.com/faithhacker/jewish_modesty_warriors_take_burkas
=============
no I don't think and never did think that the burka was the only such
example.
The mere fact that you think you have to go out with makeup and your hair
done shows just as much that you are a victim of repression.
OMG what would happen if men would have to look at a woman whose looks are
not on the A list.
As if any of them are the most pleasant of pictures.
Burka and makeup - same thing. Different culture.
Let's hope that with the coming changes, there will be new views
mk5000
Choosing the next justice
Obama should consider political experience, ideology, age, diversity.
Erwin Chemerinsky
May 18, 2009
Justice David Souter's retirement creates only the third U.S. Supreme Court
vacancy to be filled by a Democratic president since 1967, when Thurgood
Marshall was appointed to the Court, and the first in 15 years since Stephen
Breyer's selection. There already is much speculation about possible names,
but not nearly enough discussion of the criteria that President Obama should
consider.
Obviously, any nominee should have impeccable qualifications and be of
unquestioned great intelligence and judicial temperament. But there are
countless individuals who fit this bill. Four additional criteria seem most
important: filling in what is missing on the current Court: ideology, age
and diversity.
What's missing? The current Court is filled with justices of unquestioned
brilliance, but there are important things that are missing and they point
in opposite directions. One thing missing is substantial political
experience. The Supreme Court that decided Brown v. Board of Education did
not have a single justice who had been a federal court of appeals judge.
Every justice on the current Court was a federal court of appeals judge
before elevation to the high court. The Court that decided Brown v. Board of
Education had a former governor, a former senator and a former U.S. attorney
general. The current Court has none of these.
Running and serving in political office brings a real-world experience that
cannot be gained in academia or law practice or on the bench. Every justice
is a product of his or her life experiences, and these then influence the
entire Court. Something is missing when none of the justices has been a
governor or a senator or held high political office.
The other thing missing on the current Court is substantial trial experience
as a judge or a lawyer. Three of the current justices spent their careers
primarily before going on the bench as academics. Some of the current
justices never appeared in any court as attorneys. This is reflected in the
Court's rulings. Recent decisions of the Court have created enormous
confusion on basic questions as to when a federal court should dismiss a
civil case or how a jury is to be instructed about punitive damages. A
Supreme Court with members with more trial experience would be less likely
to make these mistakes.
Moishe Oysher
<marik...@gmail.com> wrote:
>"Jack Linthicum" <jackli...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:f02cc2e1-cae3-4b84...@k20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
>Just in case someone thinks its a Muslim thing. This reminds me of
>custom/rule from the turn of the 19th/20th that Jewish women would
>only appear to strangers wearing a wig. "In mein own hair?" was the
>quote one women is recorded as saying, like going naked in the street.
This is still the norm in some Orthodox congregations.
Rockinghorse Winner
(Possibly *snipped* for brevity):
>
> "D. Spencer Hines" <pan...@excelsior.net> wrote in message
> news:N%O%l.893$J6....@eagle.america.net...
>> Sarkozy Is Right Too...
>>
>> Burqas Should Not Be Welcome In The United States Either.
>
> you can dress as you damn well please in the U.S. and it is good that is
Thank you.
*R* *H*
--
The 19th-century clown Joseph Grimaldi, when old and incurably depressed,
visited a doctor. The physician advised him to cheer himself up by seeing
the great comedian Grimaldi. Whereupon his patient told him: Doctor, I am
Grimaldi.
D. Spencer Hines
What camera did you use?
--
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
>>>>> William,
>>>>> I drove up to Yorkshire a few weeks ago. Do these pics look
>>>>> anything like where you live?
>>>>>
>>>>> http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f221/terracops/IMG_3508.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>> http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f221/terracops/IMG_3591.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>> http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f221/terracops/IMG_4028.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>> http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f221/terracops/IMG_4056.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>> http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f221/terracops/IMG_4055.jpg
dino
>
>Good work.
>
>What camera did you use?
I used a digital Canon EOS Rebel XT with a Canon 28-135 auto zoom lens. Some of
the photos were taken through the front windshield (windscreen).
Thanks.
Adamastor
>In article <Dty0m.11$KO5...@eagle.america.net>, D. Spencer Hines says...
>>
>>Good work.
>>
>>What camera did you use?
>
>I used a digital Canon EOS Rebel XT with a Canon 28-135 auto zoom lens. Some of
>the photos were taken through the front windshield (windscreen).
>
>Thanks.
http://www.steves-digicams.com/2006_reviews/a700/samples/img_0003.jpg
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User Comment Character Code = not defined
* FlashPix Version = 0100
* Colour Space = sRGB (1)
* Image Width = 2816 pixels
* Image Height = 2112 pixels
* Focal Plane X-Resolution = 2816000/225 = 12515.56
* Focal Plane Y-Resolution = 2112000/169 = 12497.04
* Focal Plane X/Y-Resolution Unit = inch (2)
* Image Sensing Method = one-chip color area sensor (2)
* Image Source = digital still camera (DSC)
* Custom Rendered = normal process (0)
* Exposure Mode = auto exposure (0)
* White Balance = auto (0)
* Digital Zoom Ratio = 2816/2816 = 1
* Scene Capture Type = standard (0)
Exif IFD1
* Compression = JPEG compression (6)
* X-Resolution = 180/1 = 180
* Y-Resolution = 180/1 = 180
* X/Y-Resolution Unit = inch (2)
* Embedded thumbnail image:
Exif Interoperability IFD
* Interoperability Index = R98
* Interoperability Version = 0100
* Related Image Width = 2816 pixels
* Related Image Length = 2112 pixels
David H Singanas
> On 25 Jun 2009 05:54:26 -0700, dino <dino_mem...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <Dty0m.11$KO5....@eagle.america.net>, D. Spencer Hines says...
>
> read more »
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fascinating story. You should tell us more.
David H
~~~~~~~`
Billzz
David H
~~~~~~~`
**************************
The plot is interesting, but the cast of characters all look the same.
Adamastor
wrote:
>>
>> read more �
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Fascinating story. You should tell us more.
>
>David H
>~~~~~~~`
>**************************
>The plot is interesting, but the cast of characters all look the same.
Sorry about that, the question was asked and I just extracted the EXIF
information from one of the photos, giving the camera information, the
first two lines would have been enough.
Didn't notice the rubbish. <blush>
Fine pictures BTW.
dino
Why did it come up with a Canon PowerShot A700? I don't even know what that
is...
Eugene Stebbs
I agree those are very fascinating photos. Would you please post all
the data for *your* camera, especially the shutter speeds.
dino
says...
I have them stored in Microsoft Photo Editor. I can get the dimension of the
photo, date taken, camera model, type (jpeg), and size of photo. I don't know
how to get more info from that software. Do you? I can get it from the camera
with the flash card installed but the card is not in my hand right now. It will
take a few days to get the cards, since I have them loaned out.
Adamastor
I'm not even going to try a guess, I downloaded the picture and extracted
the EXIF information which is attached to the pic by the camera...
Eugene, the file shows shutter speed of 1/60 and aperture f3.5. I wonder
if Dino can confirm that or any of the information?
Nigel Brooks
"dino" <dino_...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:h257t...@drn.newsguy.com...
I captured your first shot in the series and ran it through Canon Zoom
Browser EXIF Data comes up as follows:
File Name IMG_3508.jpg
Camera Model Canon EOS DIGITAL REBEL XT
Firmware Firmware 1.0.3
Shooting Date/Time 5/26/2009 6:18:27 PM
Owner's Name unknown
Shooting Mode Landscape
Tv( Shutter Speed ) 1/125
Av( Aperture Value ) 8.0
Metering Mode Evaluative Metering
Exposure Compensation 0
ISO Speed 100
Lens 28.0 - 135.0 mm
Focal Length 28.0 mm
Image Size 1023x682
Image Quality Fine
Flash Off
White Balance Mode Auto
AF Mode One-Shot AF
Parameters Settings Contrast Mid. High
Sharpness Mid. High
Color saturation Mid. High
Color tone 0
Color Space sRGB
Noise Reduction Off
File Size 292 KB
Custom Function C.Fn:01-0
C.Fn:02-0
C.Fn:03-0
C.Fn:04-0
C.Fn:05-0
C.Fn:06-0
C.Fn:07-0
C.Fn:08-0
C.Fn:09-0
Drive Mode Single shooting
Camera Body No. 1820743728
dino
WOW! I didn't know you could do that... That's correct except I have the time
set for here in Florida. There's 5 hours difference. Oh, and the image size is
quite a bit smaller because I posted it through Photobucket.
Nigel Brooks
"dino" <dino_...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:h25ku...@drn.newsguy.com...
Check the software which came with your camera - you might have a copy of
zoombrowser on it.
Seeing as how we're talking photos - heres some I took last wednesday.
http://s235.photobucket.com/albums/ee233/nbrooks503/Clapton/ClaptonWinwood/
Nigel Brooks
dino
Nice! How in the hell did you manage a photo pass?
Nigel Brooks
"dino" <dino_...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:h26fg...@drn.newsguy.com...
I showed them some of the other stuff I've taken at previous Clapton
concerts and just asked for one. It just goes to prove that if you don't
ask - you'll never know.
Nigel Brooks
dino
Fantastic! I don't believe that I can top that one.
Adamastor
>
>Check the software which came with your camera - you might have a copy of
>zoombrowser on it.
>
>Seeing as how we're talking photos - heres some I took last wednesday.
>
>http://s235.photobucket.com/albums/ee233/nbrooks503/Clapton/ClaptonWinwood/
>Nigel Brooks
Ok, it seems I need to change the software I'm using, Exif Viewer, which is
a plug-in for FireFox. Convenient but wrong. What software are you using?
This is what I get for:
http://www.steves-digicams.com/2006_reviews/a700/samples/img_0003.jpg
Exif IFD0
Exif Sub IFD
Seems like it only recognises one type of Canon Cameras.
Nigel Brooks
"Adamastor" <nos...@home.net> wrote in message
news:e44f45p99v9u2lssm...@4ax.com...
Canon zoombrowser software comes with most canon cameras and will read the
data from other camera makes
http://www.photo-freeware.net/zoombrowser-ex.php
or Canon Digital Photo Professional
http://www.canon-europe.com/Support/software/dpp/
Nigel Brooks
Adamastor
>
>
>"Adamastor" <nos...@home.net> wrote in message
>news:e44f45p99v9u2lssm...@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 13:17:57 -0500, "Nigel Brooks" <nbr...@msn.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Check the software which came with your camera - you might have a copy of
>>>zoombrowser on it.
>>>
>>>Seeing as how we're talking photos - heres some I took last wednesday.
>>>
>>>http://s235.photobucket.com/albums/ee233/nbrooks503/Clapton/ClaptonWinwood/
>>>Nigel Brooks
>>
>> Ok, it seems I need to change the software I'm using, Exif Viewer, which
>> is
>> a plug-in for FireFox. Convenient but wrong. What software are you using?
>> This is what I get for:
>
>Canon zoombrowser software comes with most canon cameras and will read the
>data from other camera makes
>http://www.photo-freeware.net/zoombrowser-ex.php
>
>or Canon Digital Photo Professional
>http://www.canon-europe.com/Support/software/dpp/
>
>Nigel Brooks
Thank you.
Renia
>
> Religious writer/philosopher and former Catholic Nun, Karen Armstrong (a
> fascinating read IMHO) even defended the wearing of religious coverings,
> including a nun's habit, for the same reason. Some women prefer to dress
> modestly and be related to, possibly, for their intellect/personality, etc.
> Again, it's about personal choice, as she pointed out.
I see little difference between a Nun's habit and Islamic dress. Is
there a historical precedent to link the two, does anyone know?
David H Singanas
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A very good question.
In Houston there are Muslims who prefer Catholic schools because
head coverings for females are approved and there is a commonality
among revered religious figures such as Jesus, Moses, Mary, Abraham,
Solomon, David, and Gabriel.
David H
~~~~~
Jack Linthicum
The burka originated as protection against the desert climate.
There is a book
The Habit: A History of the Clothing of Catholic Nuns (Paperback)
by Elizabeth Kuhns
Ray O'Hara
"Renia" <re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote in message
news:h2faf1$2bt$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
nuns don't hide their faces.
Renia
Nor do all Muslims. Not all Muslims wear Burkhas.
Ray O'Hara
"Renia" <re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote in message
the ones who don't wear burkas aren't the issue now are they Renia?.
Renia
> "Renia" <re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote in message
> news:h2gt9u$5ig$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>> Ray O'Hara wrote:
>>> "Renia" <re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote in message
>>> news:h2faf1$2bt$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> La N wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Religious writer/philosopher and former Catholic Nun, Karen Armstrong
>>>>> (a fascinating read IMHO) even defended the wearing of religious
>>>>> coverings, including a nun's habit, for the same reason. Some women
>>>>> prefer to dress modestly and be related to, possibly, for their
>>>>> intellect/personality, etc. Again, it's about personal choice, as she
>>>>> pointed out.
>>>> I see little difference between a Nun's habit and Islamic dress. Is
>>>> there a historical precedent to link the two, does anyone know?
>>>
>>> nuns don't hide their faces.
>> Nor do all Muslims. Not all Muslims wear Burkhas.
>
>
> the ones who don't wear burkas aren't the issue now are they Renia?.
What issue are you talking about, Ray?
QUOTE
The headcovers (knumur) should be drawn over the neck slits (joyoob).
Khumur is the plural of the Arabic word "khimar" which means a
headcover. Juyoob is the plural of the Arabic word "jaiyb" (a derivative
of jawb or cutting) refers to the neck slit (of the dress). This means
that the headcover should be drawn so as to cover not only the hair, but
it could also be drawn over the neck and to be extended so as to cover
the bosom.
ENDQUOTE
( http://www.iman.co.nz/index.htm?innerpage_ed.htm?ed/dress.htm )
This is not the same as the Burkha, which covers the whole body,
including the face and eyes.
dino
I think he was referring to gender... and that's the whole point, isn't it?
I was at a boot sale (flea market) in England when an Indian woman and a young
girl was pushing a baby stroller with bags tied to the stroller handle. The
bags filled with purchased items became heavier than the baby, so when the young
girl let go of the handle, the stroller and baby tipped over backwards. The
baby was fine but the mother panicked. Rather than try to pick up the stroller
she started grabbing the bags while trying to keep her face covered. She wasn't
having much success so I uprighted the stroller and the baby. That frightened
the woman even more.
I was told that in India we could have both been whipped or beaten for that
little episode.
Ray O'Hara
"Renia" <re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote in message
> Ray O'Hara wrote:
> QUOTE
> The headcovers (knumur) should be drawn over the neck slits (joyoob).
> Khumur is the plural of the Arabic word "khimar" which means a headcover.
> Juyoob is the plural of the Arabic word "jaiyb" (a derivative of jawb or
> cutting) refers to the neck slit (of the dress). This means that the
> headcover should be drawn so as to cover not only the hair, but it could
> also be drawn over the neck and to be extended so as to cover the bosom.
> ENDQUOTE
> ( http://www.iman.co.nz/index.htm?innerpage_ed.htm?ed/dress.htm )
>
> This is not the same as the Burkha, which covers the whole body, including
> the face and eyes.
and what does the header to this thread say Renia.
Renia
I wasn't going to change the thread title just because I asked a
different question.