What language(s) to study? Medieval Latin? French? German?
Ultima Dragon
I'm currently a Sophomore at a local community college and I'm going
to transfer to the University of Oregon this year to do a double major
in Medieval Studies and English.
In your opinon, what are the most useful languages to learn
when studying the Middle Ages?
The University of Oregon offers many different languages, but
obviously the most useful probably being Latin, French, and German.
Unfortunately I studied none of these languages in high school and
opted to take Spanish instead.
Now I'm back to square one and have to make a decision. I'm willing
to study, at the most, two languages (anymore and I wouldn't have time
for my actual studies!).
Any insight that you may have would be very helpful and greatly
appreciated.
Thanks,
Chandler Savage
chandle...@hotmail.com
ekim
it is before 11th or 12th century you can only find Latin primary sources.
But if you are interested in high middle ages you probably have to learn
more languages. Anyways, a medievalist should know Latin.
Take care,
Ekim
"Ultima Dragon" <bl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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D. Spencer Hines
That's why it's so intensely hilarious to see P. Jonathan Gans, my pet goose,
refer to himself as a _medievalist_ ---- when he has not a scintilla of either
Classical or Mediaeval Latin.
How Sweet It Is!
Deus Vult.
"Non nobis, Domine, non nobis, sed Nomini Tuo da gloriam, propter
misericordiam Tuam et veritatem Tuam." Henry V, [1387-1422] King of
England --- Ordered it to be sung by his prelates and chaplains --- after the
Battle of Agincourt, 25 Oct 1415, --- while every able-bodied man in his
victorious army knelt, on the ground. [Psalm CXV, Verse I]
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly.
All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an
attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
given, in writing.
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
"ekim" <eki...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5D6Q9.123944$F2h1....@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
GuranGuran
wrote:
>
>I'm currently a Sophomore at a local community college and I'm going
>to transfer to the University of Oregon this year to do a double major
>in Medieval Studies and English.
>
>In your opinon, what are the most useful languages to learn
>when studying the Middle Ages?
>
>The University of Oregon offers many different languages, but
>obviously the most useful probably being Latin, French, and German.
>
>Unfortunately I studied none of these languages in high school and
>opted to take Spanish instead.
>
>Now I'm back to square one and have to make a decision. I'm willing
>to study, at the most, two languages (anymore and I wouldn't have time
>for my actual studies!).
If you only take one, latin is definitely it. I'm studying history of
ideas in Oslo, and we use a lot of primary sources. For the western
world, those are almost entirely in latin up until the end of the
middle ages. (the really old ones are in greek, but I suppose those
aren't relevant again until the renaissance, or if you want to compare
medieval translations of greek texts).
I've had a lot of time to regret not taking a language before I
started. Latin would have been very useful, though good translations
can substitute up to a point. Spanish, as french and a number of other
languages are closely related to latin. Knowing it should be very
helpful in learning any other latin language.
If you take a national language, I'd reccomend italian. The written
version has been relatively stable since Dante (or thereabouts?). This
does of course depend on what country you want to concentrate on...
...
Sollers
period. If original texts, then definitely Latin - but it does need to be
*Medieval*, not Classical. Medieval developed out of Vulgar which, all the
way through, differed markedly from Classical (the good news is that the
grammar is easier).
Any Latin would be a good start, though. I have in front of me a very
useful book, called "Latin for Local History" by Eileen A. Gooder, ISBN
0-582-48728-5. Published in the US as well as the UK, so if in print should
be findable. It doesn't assume any prior knowledge of Latin, but it helps
if you know grammatical terms.
Apart from that, German would probably be the most useful, particularly if
you are likely to be encountering any Old English (aka Anglo-Saxon). A
medievalist friend has a useful rule-of-thumb for reading English: after
1250 she needs the part of the brain she uses for English, before that it's
the part of the brain she uses for German
"Ultima Dragon" <bl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3jp11v4kedtuoedu7...@4ax.com...
>
Warren B. Hapke
: I'm currently a Sophomore at a local community college and I'm going
: to transfer to the University of Oregon this year to do a double major
: in Medieval Studies and English.
: In your opinon, what are the most useful languages to learn
: when studying the Middle Ages?
If you are interested in pursuing graduate work in medieval English
literature, one of your languages should definitely be Latin. The
other will depend on what you think your area of concentration will
be in graduate school. If you think you'll concentrate on Old English
literature, learn German. If you'll concentrate on Middle English
literature, learn French.
It should be noted that for graduate students, the main reason to
learn a language is to read research available in it. There's
a considerable body of important research on Old English that's
available only if you read German.
: The University of Oregon offers many different languages, but
: obviously the most useful probably being Latin, French, and German.
: Unfortunately I studied none of these languages in high school and
: opted to take Spanish instead.
: Now I'm back to square one and have to make a decision. I'm willing
: to study, at the most, two languages (anymore and I wouldn't have time
: for my actual studies!).
Get used to it :-). Degrees in medieval history/literature have a
reputation for being harder to get than those in other areas, mostly
because of language requirements. If you go on to graduate school in
medieval English literature, you'll be expected to learn Old English
as well, and probably Old French also.
Warren B. Hapke
wbh...@prairienet.org
Ultima Dragon
I must thank the respondents to my previous message.
I greatly appreciate it.
I think I have a pretty good idea of what to study.
I'll obviously study Latin, without a doubt, but probably French and
German in addition too.
Right now I'm not sure exactly what period I'd be interested in
studying in Graduate School; so German or French is going to be a more
difficult choice to make.
I must admit that a love both early medieval literature (Beowulf,
Battle of Maldon, etc) but I also love the Arthurian Romances as well.
My one insight might be that there really isn't very many works
in Old English to warrant studying German, albeit the few works
are magnificent. I do know that I will most likely be taking at least
two or three classes in Old English (I know German would help here!).
So it seems that there is still a toss up between German and French.
I plan to do an intense summer session of either German or French this
summer at Oregon State before going to the University of Oregon this
fall. OSU offers a full year of either German or French in a matter
of two and a half months. (15 hours of class time per week).
So I guess I must make a decision before then.
Thanks again for all of your helpful insight.
Chandler Savage
chandle...@hotmail.com
erilar
<bl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I'm currently a Sophomore at a local community college and I'm going
> to transfer to the University of Oregon this year to do a double major
> in Medieval Studies and English.
>
> In your opinon, what are the most useful languages to learn
> when studying the Middle Ages?
>
> The University of Oregon offers many different languages, but
> obviously the most useful probably being Latin, French, and German.
>
> Unfortunately I studied none of these languages in high school and
> opted to take Spanish instead.
>
> Now I'm back to square one and have to make a decision. I'm willing
> to study, at the most, two languages (anymore and I wouldn't have time
> for my actual studies!).
>
Whichever modern language you choose, if you're really serious about
medieval studies, you will almost certainly also need Latin, as many
sources are IN Latin. For Germanic Philology(Old English, Old Norse, Old
and Middle High German language and literature) I was required to pass a
reading comprehension test(read really tough translation test) in
medieval Latin as well for the MA.
As for whether French or German, it depends on what geographical area
you want to specialize in.
--
Mary Loomer Oliver(aka erilar)
Erilar's Cave Annex:
http://www.airstreamcomm.net/~erilarlo
erilar
<wbh...@bluestem.prairienet.org> wrote:
> Degrees in medieval history/literature have a
> reputation for being harder to get than those in other areas, mostly
> because of language requirements. If you go on to graduate school in
> medieval English literature, you'll be expected to learn Old English
> as well, and probably Old French also.
Old English is not all that bad if you already know German.
Martin Reboul
Ultima Dragon wrote...
>
> I'm currently a Sophomore at a local community college and I'm going
> to transfer to the University of Oregon this year to do a double major
> in Medieval Studies and English.
>
> In your opinon, what are the most useful languages to learn
> when studying the Middle Ages?
>
> The University of Oregon offers many different languages, but
> obviously the most useful probably being Latin, French, and German.
>
> Unfortunately I studied none of these languages in high school and
> opted to take Spanish instead.
>
> Now I'm back to square one and have to make a decision. I'm willing
> to study, at the most, two languages (anymore and I wouldn't have time
> for my actual studies!).
If you're starting from scratch, I'd go for Latin - but make sure it is
Medieval Latin, not Classical... rather different. Then you won't have to
rely on the ham fisted translations of others. Good luck!
Cheers
Martin
Heather Jones
Depending on how far you intend to go in Medieval Studies, all
three of these will be useful, but I'd definitely advise starting
with Latin. You should also see if your university has courses
in the modern languages specifically aimed at technical reading
as opposed to conversation. Conversational skill is certainly
useful, but for doing historic research, your primary need is the
ability to read the literature. I'll also suggest that you stick
to _starting_ one language at a time. This may not be everyone's
experience, but when I've begun two new languages at the same
time, my brain circuitry tended to get crossed. Once you've
passed the beginning stage, then a more advanced reading course
is more compatible with adding another new language.
Heather
--
*****
Heather Rose Jones
hrj...@socrates.berkeley.edu
*****
Tiglath
>
> I must thank the respondents to my previous message.
> I greatly appreciate it.
>
> I think I have a pretty good idea of what to study.
> I'll obviously study Latin, without a doubt, but probably French and
> German in addition too.
Here is advice from Norman E. Cantor, pertinent to your question:
"...will require a reading knowledge of French, German, and Latin... Latin
is necessary for reading of primary sources, and most medieval scholarship
has been written in French and German, with a certain amount in Italian."
Don't skip Classical Latin, because some Medieval authors were capable of
writing, and sometimes did, in Classical Latin, to impress their audience or
peers. Medieval Latin can be viewed as a derivation, evolution, or
corruption of Classical Latin, which makes it the best route to it.
Cantor continues, "Students of medieval and early modern Spain will need to
know Spanish and Portuguese in their various dialectical forms, not only for
analyzing primary sources but also for reading secondary scholarship, since
in this field there is a substantial bibliography in Spanish, Portuguese,
and
Catalan. Even more, the study of medieval Spain would be greatly
facilitated by a knowledge of Arabic, Hebrew, and Gothic, especially Arabic,
since many of the primary sources for this history are Arabic records.
Students of medieval England... should expect to learn the various medieval
Germanic languages, especially Anglo-Saxon; also... the Celtic languages
(Welsh and Old Irish) and Old Scandinavian forms (Old Norse and Icelandic),
and [for the later Middle Ages] Middle English and Old French (including
Anglo-Norman French). Students of the high Middle Ages in Europe [the
Continent, he means] will certainly need to know Old French and also would
need some specialized study of medieval Latin. Students of medieval
intellectual history should ideally know Greek, Arabic, and Hebrew to have a
complete grasp of primary sources in their fields. As for ancillary
fields
that will aid in the study of medieval and Renaissance problems, besides the
general fields of art history and literature... particular emphasis might be
placed on the study of theology, philosophy, and liturgy as especially
relevant to understanding the "medieval mind."... For research in archives
and for the use of manuscripts a good course in paleography (the study of
styles of writing) and some knowledge of diplomatic (the understanding of
standard forms and patterns in public documents such as commissions, writs,
charters, and the like, including standard abbreviations used) will be
indispensable. For all aspects of medieval and Renaissance studies, it is
absolutely indispensable for students to have a thorough knowledge of
classical literature (mostly Latin literature for the Western Middle Ages,
but also Greek literature for Byzantine studies and for Renaissance studies)
and of the entire Bible, Old and New Testaments, because this material was a
central part of the education in this particular eras. Finally, for
intellectual history in these periods, knowledge of ancient philosophy
(especially of Plato, Aristotle, and of the Hellenistic schools of
philosophy) and of basic scientific problems (especially in the fields of
biology and physics) will have considerable bearing on several key
intellectual questions found in medieval and Renaissance philosophy"
D. Spencer Hines
And Gans, my pet marmot, has no proficiency in ANY of those languages ----
especially Latin.
Yet he calls himself a "Medievalist."
Hilarious!
How Sweet It Is!
And DO study Classical Latin first ---- then follow with Mediaeval Latin,
later ---- after you've mastered Classical Latin and have some French as well.
Norman Cantor is a Real Mediaeval Historian from NYU ---- now in
semi-retirement.
Deus Vult.
"For we must consider that we shall be a city upon a hill. The eyes of all
people are upon us, so that if we shall deal falsely with our God in this work
we have undertaken, and so cause him to withdraw His present help from us, we
shall be made a story and a byword through the world."
John Winthrop [1588-1649] A Model of Christian Charity [1630], A Sermon
Delivered aboard Arbella, enroute to the New World; First Governor of
Massachusetts Bay Colony.
Ubique Quo Fas Et Gloria Ducunt --- Motto of the Royal Artillery
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly. All original material
contained herein is copyright and property of the author. It may be quoted
only in discussions on this forum and with an attribution to the author,
unless permission is otherwise expressly given, in writing.
------------------
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor.
"Tiglath" <te...@tiglath.net> wrote in message
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