Chinese uplift eclipses Burmese breeze.
Peter Jason
strong man at the top, and subservient
compliant underlings.
The Chinks have another nice little
earthquake and all the powers rush to the
rescue task without politics and the blame
game.
And democracy has nothing to do with it.
The Burmese junta obviously have a power
shuffle underway and seem paralysed
therefore. But sooner or later a zero will
rise and things will move more quickly. We
might even get *good governance* as there is
in China at the moment, or in Vietnam. No
democracy there either.
Long ago the Chinks took out a bit of
insurance with the "One Child Policy" and
this resulted in about 400million fewer
Chinese: to feed, to live in squalor and
overcrowding and in tall concrete bldgs prone
to earthquake collapse.
Yeah man!
Do the people want democracy or good
governance? The answer is "good governance."
Is the Western style democracy like Tinker
Bell and her Fairy Dust? Just one sprinkle
and all is well?
Not really.
95 Thesen
Interesting, Pete.
These remarks cause one to pause and think about the
wisdom of the Chinese. China is the only country on earth
with real population control. We should humbly thank the central
committee of the Communist Party for not allowing the oriental
masses to overrun the earth's caucasian minority.
There is still a demand in some regions for round-eyed folks
who sunburn easily. The new Russian president needs to
WAKE UP and open Siberia to European immigration.
Vlad Putin needs to forget about "One Party Rule" and start
allowing the Europeans to plant their feet and their ideas
across the Urals.
Keep your hat on down under,
David H
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
a425couple
Interesting, yeah.
And I mostly agree.
Before I get too far off on a tangent, , ,
Let's recall back to what was learned many
decades ago in our psych classes (and refreshed
often in various management courses and seminars).
(or go google on -- wiki Maslow hierachy of needs)
a.. 1 Representations
a.. 2 Deficiency needs
a.. 2.1 Physiological needs
b.. 2.2 Safety needs
c.. 2.3 Social needs
d.. 2.4 Esteem needs
a.. 3 Growth needs
a.. 3.1 Cognitive needs
a.. 3.2 Aesthetic needs
b.. 3.3 Self-actualization
What do people really want?
At least a somewhat survivable lifestyle.
And appearance that life for them and family
is getting better.
Was true before medieval days, during them,
and ever since.
i.e. for vast majority in China, life is big time
getting better each year. Still plenty of the
'older' folks around who saw huge deaths and
starvations. Also, plenty of cultural and educational
pressures to conform.
And besides, very few have every tried to claim
that 'democracy' is perfect.
It was a 'grand experiment' that had rarely been
tried, that by good fortune the USA instituted.
Spread quite a few places since, and best argument
for it is: It seems to work better (track record) than
other forms of government.
Of course, one of my favorite quotes is from
author and historian, Robert Leckie, who uses words better
than I do (imagine that!!). I pretty much agree with his views.
From his "The Wars of America", my version pg 1068,
I find this quote almost 'elitist" but certainly worth consideration.
He wrote this about Vietnam.
"Why...? Probably because of their naaive but mistaken
belief that democracy can flourish in any soil. In truth,
democracy--free-speech society with truly representative
government---is a rare bloom, which has seldom blossomed
outside Europe or the English-speaking countries of the
world. To have attempted to graft it onto South Vietnam's
population of peasants, ignoring their psychology, their
traditions, their rigidly structured society, their indifference
to the Western gods of Ballot Box and Freedom and their
attachment to a charasmatic leader, be he emperor, king or
commissar, was the original and major mistake of the war."
I'm also reminded of the fact that Pappa Doc, did not get
overthrown, it was his more humanitarian minded son,
Baby Doc, that did.
Seems to me that now in 'mainland' China, there is either
enough facaid of democracy, or enough true elements
of it (govt. actually trying to hear and help the population),
to keep majority happy for some time.
Recall, that most revolutions come from the rising
middle/upper class leaders. The ones that are in the
"self actualization" stage.
Eric Stevens
<a425c...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Of course, one of my favorite quotes is from
>author and historian, Robert Leckie, who uses words better
>than I do (imagine that!!). I pretty much agree with his views.
>From his "The Wars of America", my version pg 1068,
>I find this quote almost 'elitist" but certainly worth consideration.
>He wrote this about Vietnam.
>"Why...? Probably because of their naaive but mistaken
>belief that democracy can flourish in any soil. In truth,
>democracy--free-speech society with truly representative
>government---is a rare bloom, which has seldom blossomed
>outside Europe or the English-speaking countries of the
>world. To have attempted to graft it onto South Vietnam's
>population of peasants, ignoring their psychology, their
>traditions, their rigidly structured society, their indifference
>to the Western gods of Ballot Box and Freedom and their
>attachment to a charasmatic leader, be he emperor, king or
>commissar, was the original and major mistake of the war."
An even earlier 'original mistake' was the failure, at the instigation
of John Foster Dulles, to allow the policies of Lord Louis Mountbatten
to continue. In his role as Supreme Commander Far East it was his
policy that as the Japanese were defeated in each country the
government of that country was handed back to the group or
organisation most capable of forming a government. Mountbatten wanted
to hand the Vietnam over to Ho Chi Min but was prevented from doing
so. In the end he resigned/was fired from the job.
We all know what happened after that. The French (with US support)
tried to impose their own form of government, but failed. The US tried
to impose their own form of government, but also failed. Eventually Ho
Chi Min, with popular support, fought his way to power (and
Mountbatten was blown up and killed by Irish terrorists).
Eric Stevens
a425couple
I pretty much agree with what you added.
(and to put in some mention of medieval times for those
wanting it -Around 967 Vietnam ("Dai Co Viet") won
recognition by China as independent (only pay tribute).
They won more in 1287 against Kublai Khan's troops
at Red River valley. They expanded by war, then fell
again to China's control in late 1400s.)
Meanwhile Eric, also note that FDR was also very
determined as WWII wound down, to NOT let
France come back in!
Anyone have good guesses as to what effect there
might have been if he and his inner circle had included
VP Truman more in talk and planning?
Might POTUS Truman agreed with that?
or, Would POTUS Truman decide (as OTL) that the Cold
War European realities were more important?
Maybe after my vacation I'll post that over on
soc.history.what-if
But I'll probably forget, or get sidetracked.
(grin - have a good week).
95 Thesen
> "Eric Stevens" <eric.stev...@sum.co.nz> wrote
Pete,
The Maslow list from Wikipedia is very subjective and looks
at behaviours in a European Marxist socialist context.
In American psychology, the reliance is more on objective
stages of behavioral development. Here is the Erikson list
of human psychological "needs"
Basic Trust versus Mistrust
Autonomy vs. Shame, Doubt
Initiative vs. Guilt
Industry vs Inferiority
Identity vs Role Confusion
Intimacy vs Isolation
Generativity vs Stagnation
Ego Integrity vs Despair
Erikson relies heavily on childhoods in Germany and Russia
(Hitler's youth and Maxim Gorky's childhood). Obviously he
studied MEIN KAMPF and whatever Gorky wrote. Erikson's
classic, "Childhood and Society", first appeared in 1950.
Erikson's last stage of life is remarkably similar to the first
stage. We do not complete each stage sequentially, and we
have some stages more "perfected" than others.
But we must achieve Ego Integrity first in order to escape later
schizophrenia and personality failure.
I prefer this "American" approach to mental health rather than
the European Maslow subjectivism.
Cheers, David H
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peter Jason
"95 Thesen" <davidh...@yahoo.com> wrote in
message
news:721c27b8-03b2-4dac...@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
Most people resolve these hideous neuroses by
the simple application of apathy.
And narcissism of course.
Anyway, it works for me.
Others either:
1/ Lead, or
2/ Follow.
95 Thesen
> "95 Thesen" <davidholi...@yahoo.com> wrote in
> messagenews:721c27b8-03b2-4dac...@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Well I cannot really fault you folks for banning
madrasas in Australia.
Islam is still mostly a violent religion and 90% of the imams will
tell you they are not teaching Islam the way they want to teach it.
Antipodeans have only to look around the world to see the troubles
that Muslims have created in India, Spain, France, Britain, Russia,
Germany and Africa.
The Greenland Conference on Arctic marine mineral rights may lead
to a new oil boom that will decrease our dependence on Middle East
petroleum.
Cheers, David H
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~