Making canons in the XV c

[MCGARRY]

Just been watching a time teal special on Bosworth field. They showed
how to make a 1470 canon by having straight pieces of iron held into a
barrel shape by iron rings.
At Mont Saint Michel there are two bombards or mortars that were
abandonned by the English in 1435. (only one remains at this time) They
are not made with straight pieces held together. They look like rings
welded into a barrel shape.
Any one know how they were made?
here is a photo

http://www.photo-evasion.com/photos/photographie-bombarde_boulets_pierre_mont_saint_michel_normandie_bretagne-396.html

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[Eric Stevens]

On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 19:32:16 +0100, MCGARRY <webma...@cpmac.com>
wrote:

>Just been watching a time teal special on Bosworth field. They showed
>how to make a 1470 canon by having straight pieces of iron held into a
>barrel shape by iron rings.
>At Mont Saint Michel there are two bombards or mortars that were
>abandonned by the English in 1435. (only one remains at this time) They
>are not made with straight pieces held together. They look like rings
>welded into a barrel shape.
>Any one know how they were made?
>here is a photo
>
>http://www.photo-evasion.com/photos/photographie-bombarde_boulets_pierre_mont_saint_michel_normandie_bretagne-396.html

Guns of this kind were constructed from longitudinal staves held in
place by shrunk-on rings.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7oJWW256Nwo/Tt2Y1B0UX_I/AAAAAAAADy4/j-E9T2MuB7I/s1600/Mons_Meg%252C_Medieval_Bombard%252C_Edinburgh%252C_Scotland._Pic_03.jpg
or http://tinyurl.com/bb6etca shows the construction of 'Mons Meg' at
Edinburgh Castle.
The whole article may be found at
http://plowshareforge.blogspot.co.nz/2011/12/big-fellas.html
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

[Peter Jason]

The casting of bronze church bells may have given
them a clue.
But look at these wonderful breech loaders at the
Krupp works...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/library_of_congress/6442028639/
http://www.essener.org/Krupp-Bilder/kanonenfabrik.jpg

Feast the eyes on this brilliant fast loading
mechanism..
http://www.cannonsuperstore.com/New_Folder/PICT0005.JPG
And old WWI Krupps can still be purchased for a
few thou..
http://www.cannonsuperstore.com/krupp_cannons.htm
Beautiful workmanship!

[MCGARRY]

a photo
>>
>> http://www.photo-evasion.com/photos/photographie-bombarde_boulets_pierre_mont_saint_michel_normandie_bretagne-396.html
>
> Guns of this kind were constructed from longitudinal staves held in
> place by shrunk-on rings.
> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7oJWW256Nwo/Tt2Y1B0UX_I/AAAAAAAADy4/j-E9T2MuB7I/s1600/Mons_Meg%252C_Medieval_Bombard%252C_Edinburgh%252C_Scotland._Pic_03.jpg
> or http://tinyurl.com/bb6etca shows the construction of 'Mons Meg' at
> Edinburgh Castle.
> The whole article may be found at
> http://plowshareforge.blogspot.co.nz/2011/12/big-fellas.html
>

So it seems that on a narrow bore cannon there would be a few rings
along the length, but on a wide bore, like the 40 caliber michelette,
the rings would be touching each other along the whole length.

[Erilar]

Saw this subject and expected something religious.



--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist with iPad

[Peter Jason]

On Sat, 8 Dec 2012 21:47:47 +0000 (UTC), Erilar
<dra...@chibardun.netinvalid> wrote:

>Saw this subject and expected something religious.

My reply contained "church bells"!

[robert...@gmail.com]

Later on in the C15, they extended tho hoops to cover the wholebarrel, overlapping them for far greater strencth and less gas leakage. The earlist ones had only one at each end, and clay was used to deal the joints as muckh as possible.

Extremely dangerous and unreliable though they were, I suspect with a good crew and several breeches they could acheive quite a rate of fire? The Burgundisns were probably the best and most 'hi-tech' gunmakers and gunners during the wars of the Roses, though even their best hand gunners came a cropper at St Albans II.... maybe our English powder was better?

This is a fascinating subject, as there was 9rightly) much superstition concerning these great heavy demons which belched sulphurous smoke and deadly ordinance, yet often betrayed their masters by exploding in his face. There were special prayers to be said by gunners, and the whole subject of guns and explosives tended to terrify, or at least make highly suspicious, and ordinary soldier stationed close to them.

[Peter Jason]

The French excelled at cannon making, theirs being
of the less brittle bronze. Church-bell foundries
would be familiar with the stuff.

[robert...@gmail.com]

Like the big bronze cannon 'Dijon', used by Warwick at the siege of Bamburgh Castle. Apparently devastating and very accurate too. Whether the name has anything to do with the place it was made, I have no idea?

Casting iron cannons wasn't technically possible in the UK until the mid 1500's IIRC?

[Bill]

On Wed, 27 Mar 2013 12:05:27 -0700 (PDT), robert...@gmail.com
wrote:

>Like the big bronze cannon 'Dijon', used by Warwick at the siege of Bamburgh Castle. Apparently devastating and very accurate too. Whether the name has anything to do with the place it was made, I have no idea?
>
>Casting iron cannons wasn't technically possible in the UK until the mid 1500's IIRC?

Later.

[John Briggs]

Not much later - Elizabeth's reign, certainly.
--
John Briggs

[Bill]

That's a century...

[robert...@gmail.com]

Oh dear, I must have pressed the five instead of the six... ahem! This D*mn*d keyboard!

[ken...@cix.compulink.co.uk]

In article <T_J4t.209122$fe2.2...@fx32.fr7>, john.b...@ntlworld.com

(John Briggs) wrote:

> Not much later - Elizabeth's reign, certainly.

Cast iron cannon were available for Henry VII. In the period of the
Tudors England became an exporter of iron cannon.

Ken Young

[Erilar]

Those aren't canons, they"re cannons.

[robert...@gmail.com]

Well, 'goones' then!

[The Horny Goat]

On Fri, 29 Mar 2013 14:59:56 +0000 (UTC), Erilar
<dra...@chibardun.netinvalid> wrote:

><robert...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Like the big bronze cannon 'Dijon', used by Warwick at the siege of
>> Bamburgh Castle. Apparently devastating and very accurate too. Whether
>> the name has anything to do with the place it was made, I have no idea?
>>
>> Casting iron cannons wasn't technically possible in the UK until the mid 1500's IIRC?
>
>Those aren't canons, they"re cannons.

They fired canons in England long before the mid 1500s...

[W. Baker]

The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca> wrote:
: On Fri, 29 Mar 2013 14:59:56 +0000 (UTC), Erilar

Were there canon(not Cannons) used durign the battle of Agincourt1415? I
read there were in a historical novel and am wondering.

Wendy Wisan Baker

[The Horny Goat]

On Sat, 30 Mar 2013 20:46:01 +0000 (UTC), "W. Baker"
<wba...@panix.com> wrote:

>: >> Casting iron cannons wasn't technically possible in the UK until the mid 1500's IIRC?
>: >
>: >Those aren't canons, they"re cannons.
>
>: They fired canons in England long before the mid 1500s...
>
>Were there canon(not Cannons) used durign the battle of Agincourt1415? I
>read there were in a historical novel and am wondering.

I was of course making a joke but clergy typically attended the troops
at most battles during that era. I certainly don't have a breakdown of
what type of clergy were at which battle for you so please don't ask
me for a cite but of all clergy present at Agincourt I cannot imagine
there wasn't at least one canon among them. For the record, a canon
was the chief preaching cleric at a cathedral - in a non-cathedral he
would typically be called a rector. A canon would typically move with
his bishop and a bishop would certainly be in attendence when the king
was on the road but again - that is standard practice and I do not
have a cite for you.

[W. Baker]

The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca> wrote:

: On Sat, 30 Mar 2013 20:46:01 +0000 (UTC), "W. Baker"

OK, that is one problem not quite settled, now, how about cannons? You
know big long guns that go Boom andsometimes blow up, killing the
artillery felows.

Wendy Wisan Baker

[Paul F Austin]

On 3/31/2013 10:39 AM, W. Baker wrote:

>
> OK, that is one problem not quite settled, now, how about cannons? You
> know big long guns that go Boom andsometimes blow up, killing the
> artillery felows.

This from Geoffrey Parker's "The Gunpowder Revolution" and "Ships of the
Line", included in _The Cambridge History of Warfare_:

Guns didn't become effective battering weapons in Europe until about
1430 and in the 13th century were shorter ranged than bows. Field guns
with carriages and trunnions showed up about mid-fifteenth century.

Froissart mentions that Spanish ships had iron cannon in 1304. These and
others were galleys with guns firing from the bow and stern. Caravel
constructed ships suitable in both load carrying and strength for firing
large numbers of guns. The first ship mounting broadside battery was
Great Michael (Scotland) completed in early Sixteenth Century.

Archer and Ferris, iron guns were attempted in the Fourteenth Century
but they too often experienced precipitate dis-assembly, with gunners
favoring hoop guns.

Bronze cast guns exploited bell casting methods. Mehmet employed very
large cast guns in the siege and conquest of Constantinople in
mid-Fifteenth Century. Early Sixteenth Century the English developed
methods for casting high-quality iron guns with both Mary Rose and Great
Harry mounting cast iron guns in 1511.

Paul

[Bill]

On Sat, 30 Mar 2013 20:46:01 +0000 (UTC), "W. Baker"
<wba...@panix.com> wrote:

Probably not at Agincourt by the English as they were moving too
fast.

However the first use in Western Europe is usually reckoned to be by
the English at Crecy in 1346.

[Odysseus]

In article <9vj7c85ebb9p9qtr7...@4ax.com>,

On which a canon might be rung? Wikipiedia says the earliest known are
English rounds (e.g. "Sumer is Icumin in", ca.1250), and that on the
Continent the form flourished particularly in the XV and early XVI
centuries.

(Sorry.)

--
Odysseus