Who historically was the Syrophoenican woman in Mark 7:27,28?
crunch
wrote:
> In article <45871705-91f5-476a-841d-27459143f...@c34g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
>
> crunch <pchristain...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >So, to resume, in Rev 22:15 the "dogs" are unclean or
> >wicked and are debarred from the gates of the city of God.
> >Further, the NIV Study Guide Author for Rev 22:15
> >refers to Deuteronomy for "dogs" as (sexually) unclean.
> >I lost my copy of the NIV Bible.
>
> >Dave
>
> The fact that the same words are used multiple times in multiple places
> does not imply that the words are all applicable to the very same
> entity. Last night playing on-line bridge my partner was pleased
> to play dummy because it gave him opportunity to let out the dog.
> Is that also the dog cited by you above, and can I therefore
> conclude that that dog too must be homosexual. That logic leads
> to a world populated only by one homosexual dog. How then was the
> world so populated with that one dog?
>
> This taking disjoint quite independent things and finding hidden
> connections between them, is one of the striking things I have
> noticed about some schitzophrenics I have known. They seem to
> live in a dream state where conclusions follow from observations
> (as in a dream) without either the need to rationalise about
> why, or perhaps being completely unable to actually appproach
> things rationally. For example, claims like I knew who had
> assassinated Olaf Palmer, because I was in a car in france driving
> behind a military truck and the soldiers in the back were laughing.
> Not only is the conviction absolute that knowledge available to
> the sufferer not available to others, but there often goes
> with that conviction a desperate need to convince other people
> that the convictions need to be taken seriously. So for example,
> one of the universities where I work must be imagined not a
> university at all but rather a covert headquarters for the CIA.
> The less it looks like such a thing, the more obvious it is that
> it is intended to look like any other university, even though it
> isn't. And there is no acceptance of any notion that this fact
> could be otherwise be true. A horrible horrible mindtrap. I've
> known someone 25 years with the condition, and she has yet to
> accept that she is even ill.
>
> Ian
Thiering lexicon of special meanings
http://www.pesherofchrist.infinitesoulutions.com/index_For_Reference.html
Dog kyōn
"A homosexual, as in Deuteronomy 23:18. In the list of members of a
militant abbey in Revelation 22:15 the homosexual, as a plu. rep. In
Mark 7:27,28 the question of homosexuality is dealt with in Jesus'
exchange with Helena the Syrophoenican woman on the subject of
'little
dogs' kynaria, homosexual initiates. Jesus is quoted as saying that
it
was not Herodian practice, kalos, to give the sacred bread of
Nazirite
Gentiles, tekna, to the 'little dogs'. Helena replies that it was the
practice of monastic Gentiles, paidia, 'under the table' to share the
crumbs of sacred bread after the meal with homosexuals, so having
some
fellowship with them. Jesus' answer to her meant that she was
permitted to act as a lay levite, a teacher, with the congregation.
Her role as the head of Asher was to be the Mother Sarah to
proselytes, who included the eunuchs of the Herodian court."
---
NIV Study Guide Author on Rev 22:15 -
"dogs. A term applied to all types of ceremonially
impure persons. In Dt 23:18 it designates a male
prostitute."
-----
Please read the entire biography of Helena that
Dr. Thiering gives on her official website -
Helena
(the partner of Simon Magus and the Syrophoenician
woman of Mark 7:24-30)
http://www.pesherofchrist.infinitesoulutions.com/index_Helena.html
"At a time when we are reminded once more of the influence women may
wield in the political process, it will be worth looking again at the
different accounts of Helena, the partner of Simon Magus. Like the
major male leaders, she appears under many different pseudonyms,
showing that she played a significant part. When the apocryphal
sources, especially the Clementines, are taken seriously as history,
instead of being dismissed as later fiction, the reason for her
prominence becomes apparent.
Her personal history is given in the Clementine Homilies 2, 19-21,
where she is identified with the Syrophoenician woman of Mark 7:24-30,
the one who had a theological debate with Jesus. According to the
Homilies, 'There is amongst us one Justa, a Syro-Phoenician, by race a
Canaanite, whose daughter was oppressed with a grievous disease. (...
the account of the healing of her daughter by Jesus follows). She,
therefore, having taken up a manner of life according to the (Jewish)
law, was, with the daughter who had been healed, driven out from her
home by her husband, whose sentiments were opposed to ours. But she,
being faithful to her engagements, and being in affluent
circumstances, remained a widow herself. And, abstaining from marriage
for the sake of her daughter, she bought two boys and educated them,
and had them in place of sons. And they being educated from their
boyhood with Simon Magus, have learned all things concerning him.'"
Peace (after the Quaker fashion),
David Christainsen
Newton, Mass. USA
(<<Kelly>>)
>
> Dog kyōn
>
> "A homosexual, as in Deuteronomy 23:18.
No, *not* as in Deuteronomy 23:18. Thiering is either lying here or
really, really stupid.
> In the list of members of a
> militant abbey in Revelation 22:15 the homosexual, as a plu. rep. In
> Mark 7:27,28 the question of homosexuality is dealt with in Jesus'
> exchange with Helena the Syrophoenican woman on the subject of
> 'little
> dogs' kynaria, homosexual initiates.
See? There it is again. Thiering completely ignores the actual
Hebrew definition here and says that dogs = homosexual. Not only is
she stupid and about as far from an actual Biblical scholar as she can
be, but anti-gay.
Tsk, tsk.
crunch
Wild and reckless charges flung by you against Dr. Thiering. I've
already explained recently on usenet that the writer of Rev 22:15
was an Asher Gentile who shared the Essene prejudice that sex
is defiling and saw Deuteronomy 23:18 thru that "prism". So,
Dr. Thiering is correct and you are dead wrong.
If you have questions about this sophisticated argument, just
ask. I want it to be clear.
BTW you fail to pick up that Helena the Syrophoenican woman
was part of the Ascetic Coalition and shared some Essene
views.
@tampabay.rr.com Pastor Dave
<pchris...@yahoo.com> spake thusly:
>Dog ky?n
>
>"A homosexual, as in Deuteronomy 23:18. In the list of members of a
>militant abbey in Revelation 22:15 the homosexual, as a plu. rep. In
>Mark 7:27,28 the question of homosexuality is dealt with in Jesus'
>exchange with Helena the Syrophoenican woman on the subject of
>'little
>dogs' kynaria, homosexual initiates. Jesus is quoted as saying that
>it
>was not Herodian practice, kalos, to give the sacred bread of
>Nazirite
>Gentiles, tekna, to the 'little dogs'. Helena replies that it was the
>practice of monastic Gentiles, paidia, 'under the table' to share the
>crumbs of sacred bread after the meal with homosexuals, so having
>some
>fellowship with them. Jesus' answer to her meant that she was
>permitted to act as a lay levite, a teacher, with the congregation.
>Her role as the head of Asher was to be the Mother Sarah to
>proselytes, who included the eunuchs of the Herodian court."
>
>---
>
>NIV Study Guide Author on Rev 22:15 -
>
>"dogs. A term applied to all types of ceremonially
>impure persons. In Dt 23:18 it designates a male
>prostitute."
This is a ridiculous conclusion and is why it makes
me laugh at people who claim to gain their own
understanding from the Bible itself, when in reality,
all they do is parrot what others say and then pretend
that, "The Holy Spirit told me!". Ridiculous!
1) It does not say "homosexual", even in what
you provided from an "NIV Study Guide".
2) The "NIV Study Guide" is not Scripture and
should be given no more weight than what
any other man says.
3) You jumped to conclusions, based on your
own ignorance of the times and what it would
mean when Jesus said what He said and you
took it totally out of context!
It has nothing to do with homosexuals. It was
simply about the Jews considering her to be
unclean, not because she was a lesbian or
anything like that, but because she was not
a Jew.
"The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician
by nation" - Mark 7:26a
The "children" were Gentiles, period and it
wouldn't have mattered if she was or was not
a lesbian, so you really need to stop making
that claim and start studying the Bible itself
and the times, instead of what some guy writes,
because he wants it to be about that and you
then claiming that's what it is, because your
mission is to preach against homosexuality.
Homosexual acts are a sin, but that doesn't
make it okay for you, nor for anyone else,
to twist any Scripture they like to suit their
own needs.
And Rev 22:15 has nothing to do with homosexuals
and this guy;s "special meanings" ate nothing more
than him making it whatever he wants it to be and
then pretending that his so called "lexicon" is some
kind of authoritative text that dare not be questioned
and I'm sorry, but I don't go for that kind of ego
and frankly, I'm tired of lexicons going beyond what
the actual meanings of the words of a dead language
actually are! They like to write their own meanings
into words, to suit whatever doctrine they hold!
And many do this, including Thayer's and this guy's!
What word has 12 meanings?! And how can so many
have that many meanings, that just so happen to
line up with the doctrines that came out shortly before
that edition of said lexicon?!
And why is it that Christians are actually THAT DUMB,
that they actually believe that a dead language, which
is what Koine Greek is, can somehow, is so many words,
have DICTIONARY DEFINITIONS that consist of some
kind of Christian thought, when in reality, they simply
wrote the New Testament in the common street Greek,
which existed LONG BEFORE Christianity was a religion?!
And frankly sir, with all due respect, if what I just said
does not make sense to you, then all you are doing,
is protecting your doctrine at the expense of what
the language actually was and at the expense of what
Scripture actually says!
The closest thing you're going to get to a dictionary
of the Koine Greek, is a Strong's. It has been the
standard for over 100 years for a reason and even
the other lexicons use their numbering system and
this is all because it is very rare that you'll see a word
that has many definitions, or that you will see some
word that has a Christian meaning to it. And that's
because the language existed before Christianity
and it is the common street Greek of the time.
Something you would write a grocery list in and
was meant for the common man to understand.
The only way that you will ever understand Scripture,
is to learn the times and how they wrote, spoke,
thought and lived. And without that, it is impossible!
The simple truth is, that Futurists do not believe
the Bible. They believe what they were spoon fed,
that they then try to build on and claim that they
came up with it all on their own and that the
"Holy Spirit told me!". That's a load of bunk!
You believe what you want it to mean and have
zero proof of anything you say! And if you want
to deny that, then it is up to you to PROVE that
THE BIBLE ALONE says what you claim it does!
And you must do it with the words found there
and not with "this guys says that...".
--
Pastor Dave
The following is part of my auto-rotating
sig file and not part of the message body.
"If something in science suddenly becomes so sacrosanct
that you can't question it, then it ceases to be science",
he said. "And I really think that's what's become of
Darwinism." - Roger DeHart
@tampabay.rr.com Pastor Dave
<pchris...@yahoo.com> spake thusly:
>On Dec 25, 3:14�pm, "(<<Kelly>>)" wrote:
>
>Wild and reckless charges flung by you against Dr. Thiering. I've
>already explained recently on usenet that the writer of Rev 22:15
>was an Asher Gentile who shared the Essene prejudice that sex
>is defiling and saw Deuteronomy 23:18 thru that "prism". So,
>Dr. Thiering is correct and you are dead wrong.
And we have already told you that you are an idiot,
who lies about what the Bible says about homosexuals
and who runs away every time I post the absolute proof
of that!
You claim to believe and yet, attack the Bible whenever
it doesn't say, "Hey, homos! Have more homo sex!
God loves you for it!".
You're an idiot who can't state a coherent thought!
But hey, prove me wrong! Deal with the detailed post
that I sent to you, which contained no insults, no type
of accusations or anything. It just contained clear
responses to your claims and I asked you one simple
question, which you also refused to answer!
And I told you that you could ignore everything else
that I posted and that all you had to do, was answer
that one simple question and I would convert to
saying that God has no problem with homosexual
acts. And yet, each and every time, you ran away!
And I mean, YOU RAN!!!
Now why is that, if you are so right and we're so wrong???
--
Pastor Dave
The following is part of my auto-rotating
sig file and not part of the message body.
"Fortune favors the bold." - Virgil - The Aeneid
Seebs
> Now why is that, if you are so right and we're so wrong???
He gives every sign of having untreated narcissistic personality disorder,
meaning that it's basically impossible for him to engage in a conversation
which involves people not agreeing with him. He'll just post responses
to what it would have been convenient to him for them to have said,
or possibly make excuses for not paying attention.
Please consider not bothering to follow up to his posts, as all it does
is increase traffic without contributing substantial content.
-s
p.s.: I'd be happy to debate the whole gay-sex-in-the-Bible thing with
you, but the crosspost list here is ridiculous. You could email me or
pop over to SRQ for a while, if you're interested.
--
Copyright 2009, all wrongs reversed. Peter Seebach / usenet...@seebs.net
http://www.seebs.net/log/ <-- lawsuits, religion, and funny pictures
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology) <-- get educated!
Sir David
> Thiering lexicon <FLUSH>
Carl rides his hobbyhorse.
Nyarlat Hotep
sold pussy.
crunch
> On 2009-12-26, Pastor Dave <newsgroup-m...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > Now why is that, if you are so right and we're so wrong???
>
> He gives every sign of having untreated narcissistic personality disorder,
> meaning that it's basically impossible for him to engage in a conversation
> which involves people not agreeing with him. He'll just post responses
> to what it would have been convenient to him for them to have said,
> or possibly make excuses for not paying attention.
>
> Please consider not bothering to follow up to his posts, as all it does
> is increase traffic without contributing substantial content.
>
> -s
> p.s.: I'd be happy to debate the whole gay-sex-in-the-Bible thing with
> you, but the crosspost list here is ridiculous. You could email me or
> pop over to SRQ for a while, if you're interested.
We attach too much consequence to certain attacks; they
cannot do us any essential injury.
samvaknin
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/narcissisticabuse/message/4948
The Narcissist as Know-it-all
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/narcissisticabuse/message/4945