Ancient Audio Recordings On Pottery?
jim
'recordings' of speech had been recovered from pottery.
The claim was that the potter was using a stick or tool to shape the
pottery, and the tool picked up the vibrations of the speech which
left a readable trace on the pottery. Much like reading the
indentations on a vinyl record.
I never saw anything more about this. I suppose it is all nonsense,
but it does capture the imagination.
Anybody remember this?
Thanks,
jim
Chris Camfield
remember something to do with music... but I don't remember a
recording method like you suggest.
If you don't get any answers here, try posting in humanities.classics,
they might know something.
Chris
jim
wrote:
Yes, speech. My use of the term 'audio ' wasn't chosen well. I
suspect the story isn't true, but would like to confirm that.
jim
wrote:
I should add that these recordings were judged to be accidental -
there was no suggestion that the ancients intentionally made
recordings.
Aggie-tom
"jim" <send_no_mail@null_device.com> wrote in message
news:3b6834e8...@news7.bellatlantic.net...
If this it true then does anyone know what the RIAA equalisation constants
would be for the playback system ?
>
> Thanks,
>
> jim
>
>
Christer Björklund
I do remember the idea, it must have been about 10 years since i heard
about it. The version that I remember was not recordings from pottery
but from paintings, from what I recall from memory a LASER could be used
as an "needle". From what I remember someone wanted to hear what
Leonardo talked about when painting Mona Lisa.
Christer
Jorn Barger
> Many years ago I read an article that claimed that ancient
> 'recordings' of speech had been recovered from pottery.
Reminds me of the 'Outer Limits' episode where they recovered the
screams of dying Pompeiians recorded by cooling lava.
> The claim was that the potter was using a stick or tool to shape the
> pottery, and the tool picked up the vibrations of the speech which
> left a readable trace on the pottery. Much like reading the
> indentations on a vinyl record.
My best efforts so far were all drowned out by the rumbling of the wheel
and the potter's heartbeat.
--
http://www.robotwisdom.com/ "Relentlessly intelligent
yet playful, polymathic in scope of interests, minimalist
but user-friendly design." --Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel
grapheus
Hi, Jim !
I would also say that it seems nonsense if this idea had not been
launched by a well known French scholar who is number one in France in
Physics !.. I know he has tried some experimentation a few years ago,
but they were not successful...
Regards
grapheus
JWMeritt
James W. Meritt, CISSP, CISA
EndlsRayne
Well, it does sound far fetched but I'll add to this that you can bounce a
laser off of someone's window and listen to what is going on in the building.
So they can probably see that audio waves are in the pottery and paintings,
but the chances of being able to actually listen to them are very low. There
would seem to be many variables such as the potter/painter's hand's angle while
the piece is being made, or which brush stroke was the first in the painting ,
and which came after it.
All in all I think it would be very hard to do, but not totally impossible
given that computer technology improves almost every day.
Aggie-tom
"EndlsRayne" <endls...@aol.combustion> wrote in message
news:20010802113340...@ng-ft1.aol.com...
Look. This painter is going to be starting and stopping to reload his brush
between every stroke. There is now way that an whole worlds would ever have
been recorded let alone an entire sentence.
EndlsRayne
>Look. This painter is going to be starting and stopping to reload his brush
>between every stroke. There is now way that an whole worlds would ever have
>been recorded let alone an entire sentence.
I agree, I was thinking more about pottery when I made that last post. Another
problem that would pop up with trying to read audio from a painting would
be"how do you know where to start?"
grapheus
Aggie is showing again his arrogant ignorance !
Any intelligent guy not knowing what the envisaged process is, would
have asked for some information. Not Aggie !.. He "knows" everything
!.. I wrote that a French scholar, number one in Physics, had been
interested in the matter : for Aggie, he must surely be a kind of
illiterate guy, a CRETIN as he says !.. Well, the "cretin" is "only"
the Nobel Prize 1992 in Physics !...
Now, a few words about the process related to Molecular Physics, as I
understood it : when there is an interface between two fluids (water
and air, for instance) the molecules of, said, water being "at the
surface" have slightly different "configurations" than the molecules
inside the water. And this "configuration" is somewhat modified when
one applies a local pressure. Now, if by any sort of process (heating
for instance, dessication, etc.) you "freeze" the configurations of
the surface molecules, you will get a kind of "record" of the local
pressures, at the time of the freezing. And if the local pressure
comes from a sound-wave, you may - theorically - get a record of this
sound-wave...
regards
grapheus
Brian
news:9421101.01080...@posting.google.com...
I think you're bullshitting here, grapheus.
One, the painting is applied in strokes, so where do you start to 'read' ?
Second, the painter would paint over parts already painted.
For once you've put your foot in your mouth.
Sometimes you seem to be logical, but now you're just over the edge.
Brian
grapheus
Would you mind reading what I wrote ?.. I said that the "recording"
was done *at the time of the freezing*, what means when the MOLECULAR
surface of the paint become "solid". (Please, notice that the words I
use ("configuration", "solid", "freezing") are voluntarily "ordinary
and vague words", to make the process understood by people who are not
specialists in Molecular Physics. Scientists use, of course,
sophisticated equations to describe the phenomenon !). How much time
does take this "freezing" to happen AT THE MOLECULAR SCALE ? I don't
know the answer, not being a specialist in Molecular Physics, but I
understood that it was incredibly short (So the *theorical
possibility* of recording).
This being said, please explain me why a Nobel Prize was interested in
the matter, if it were, as you wrote, "over the edge" !..
grapheus
Aggie-tom
"grapheus" <grap...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:9421101.01080...@posting.google.com...
Obviously you never graduated kindergarten because you failed the finger
painting exam.
A real painting takes many hours or even days and weeks. By this time one
part of the painting is completely dry and the rest is still wet. If you are
saying that the entire stationary paint absorbs the sound and freezes it
this is like recording on a cassette tape with the motor on pause. Figure it
out.
grapheus
A few seconds after sending my last post, I noticed that it was
probably not clear enough and I betted with myself that you would
misunderstand it... Well, I won my bet !..
I should have written this : all the recording process rests on what
happen to the MOLECULES AT THE SURFACE. It is a well known thing that
when you are applying a paint on a surface with a brush, there is a
"rearrangement", at a molecular scale, at the surface of the paint.
This "rearrangement" is even visible to an human eye : the "riddles"
made by the brush are glossed, etc. As long as the paint keeps "wet",
this "molecular rearrangement" goes on, and it depends on the
"external forces" applied : air pressure, gravity, etc. For instance,
the gravity force may produce "drops" of paint. (I suppose that even
you, Aggie, have noticed that ?..). Then, came the moment when THE
MOLECULES AT THE SURFACE STOP MOVING : in ordinary words, the paint
begins to dry. The drying process may take HOURS to be COMPLETE, i.e.
to be propagated INTO the paint layer. But it is incredibly rapid FOR
THE MOLECULAR layer at the surface (i.e. at the interface between
paint and air) once the "rearrangement" of the molecules is achieved.
And please, Aggie, make me a favour : look in a book of Physics what
is the DIMENSION of a MOLECULE before posting your next "objection"
!..
grapheus
Aggie-tom
"grapheus" <Grap...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:15074521.01080...@posting.google.com...
mila mas o malakas
>
> I should have written this : all the recording process rests on what
> happen to the MOLECULES AT THE SURFACE. It is a well known thing that
> when you are applying a paint on a surface with a brush, there is a
> "rearrangement", at a molecular scale, at the surface of the paint.
> This "rearrangement" is even visible to an human eye : the "riddles"
> made by the brush are glossed, etc. As long as the paint keeps "wet",
> this "molecular rearrangement" goes on, and it depends on the
> "external forces" applied : air pressure, gravity, etc. For instance,
> the gravity force may produce "drops" of paint. (I suppose that even
> you, Aggie, have noticed that ?..). Then, came the moment when THE
> MOLECULES AT THE SURFACE STOP MOVING : in ordinary words, the paint
> begins to dry. The drying process may take HOURS to be COMPLETE, i.e.
> to be propagated INTO the paint layer. But it is incredibly rapid FOR
> THE MOLECULAR layer at the surface (i.e. at the interface between
> paint and air) once the "rearrangement" of the molecules is achieved.
>
> And please, Aggie, make me a favour : look in a book of Physics what
> is the DIMENSION of a MOLECULE before posting your next "objection"
> !..
Aggie-tom has a degree in Physics and knows you are talking crap. In order
to de-convolve what you are suggesting now that gravity and chaos mechanics
come into play you'd need to know the present position and trajectory of
every atom in the entire solar-system if not the whole universe to an
accuracy that is incalculable. Stick to the vibrating paintbrush gramophone
theory.
>
> grapheus
grapheus
> >
> > And please, Aggie, make me a favour : look in a book of Physics what
> > is the DIMENSION of a MOLECULE before posting your next "objection"
> > !..
>
> Aggie-tom has a degree in Physics and knows you are talking crap. In order
> to de-convolve what you are suggesting now that gravity and chaos mechanics
> come into play you'd need to know the present position and trajectory of
> every atom in the entire solar-system if not the whole universe to an
> accuracy that is incalculable. Stick to the vibrating paintbrush gramophone
> theory.
Aggie, tell me when you may record the Traviata with your paintbruch !
In exchange, I promiss to keep you aware of any progress in the
experiments made by my 1992 Nobel Prize in Physics, as soon as he and
his team will make some !.. Bet who will win ?...
grapheus
Brian
Not you.............
I suspect you're trolling us here, grapheus.
Brian
> grapheus
Robert St. James (La Mesta Castellana)
to cover up the fact that he was wasting church money to buy forged gospels?
Anyway, it's fun to imagine what might be recorded:
"Want to go get some beer after you've finished that pot?"
"Sure. This is thirsty work!"
"Want to hear me expound on the doings of a Jewish carpenter named
Jesus who's going to be famous some day?"
"Only if you're paying for the beer!"
Creak, creak, scrape...
Robert St. James
Berkeley, Calif.
grapheus
Surely !.. I am not a Nobel Prize. But I prefer trusting a Nobel Prize
than Aggie... or you !
grapheus
Brian
I'm not asking for one - I don't need one to boost my knowledge.........
Brian
> grapheus
grapheus
> "grapheus" <grap...@my-deja.com> skrev i melding
> news:9421101.01080...@posting.google.com...
> > "Brian" <zh...@online.no> wrote in message
> news:<uEVa7.19$YB2...@news1.oke.nextra.no>...
> > > "grapheus" <grap...@my-deja.com> skrev i melding
> > > news:9421101.01080...@posting.google.com...
> > > > "Aggie-tom" <cyprusandhe...@i.am-SPAM-TRAP> wrote in message
> news:<9kggfp$n7f$1...@neptunium.btinternet.com>...
> > > > Aggie, tell me when you may record the Traviata with your paintbruch !
> > > > In exchange, I promiss to keep you aware of any progress in the
> > > > experiments made by my 1992 Nobel Prize in Physics, as soon as he and
> > > > his team will make some !.. Bet who will win ?...
> > >
> > > Not you.............
> > > I suspect you're trolling us here, grapheus.
> > >
> > > Brian
> >
> > Surely !.. I am not a Nobel Prize. But I prefer trusting a Nobel Prize
> > than Aggie... or you !
>
> I'm not asking for one - I don't need one to boost my knowledge.........
>
> Brian
Sa said Brian, the Great Scientific Super-Genius !..
Amen !..
grapheus
Brian
<sarcasm> Thank you </sarcasm>
I might be clever enough to understand concepts, but I
don't think I'm Nobel-prize material.
Anyway, I'll have to ask the local MENSA-group were
they have blundered my test-result.
Brian
> grapheus
Kat's Scan
'silicon' in the clay, and stone that 'picks-up' 'voices,' ie, 'sound
waves'--'electro-magnetic resonance.'
Voices of people being crushed in mining collapses have been recorded on
the 'walls' of said mine shafts, as well.
It is the 'silicon' in the rock and stone--the same silicon used to coat
plain old 'Scotch-tape' (called mylar tape) when used in tape recorders
as music cassettes, also as video tapes, discs, and so-forth.
It's a wonder the 'play-backs' or 'ghost' 'visuals' have not been
'picked-up on,' or 'seen' also. But then, 'maybe' they have--at a more
'subliminal' level. Like, "I got this weird feeling...." "I feel
like something...." We haven't 'fine-tuned' our brains enough, that's
all.
Kat
Kat's Scan
Since 'silicon' is the 'culprit' behind archaic 'recorded' sounds.
What is 'silicon?'
You've heard of quartz, and quartz crystals? You've heard of fine
beach sand? 'Sand' is finely ground quartz, sometimes when
ground into a powder and mixed with different 'oxides,' is used as
'glaze' on pottery (thus 'talking' and 'singing' pottery). The
'silicon' being the electro-magnetic resonance carrier, as in the
coating on cassette music and video tapes, etc...etc....etc....
You've heard of 'crystal' sets? (The first radios--a quartz crystal
under 'pressure'--one station--one frequency.)
You've heard of 'police scanners?' (Up to 50 quartz crystals. Each
one picking up a particular radio frequency--wave length or 'band' of
'sound waves.')
You've heard of 'crystal balls'............?
And so goes 'silicon,' 'recording' agent of the ages.
Kat
Matt Giwer
>
> Postscript to the above:
> Since 'silicon' is the 'culprit' behind archaic 'recorded' sounds.
> What is 'silicon?'
>
> You've heard of quartz, and quartz crystals? You've heard of fine
> beach sand? 'Sand' is finely ground quartz, sometimes when
> ground into a powder and mixed with different 'oxides,' is used as
> 'glaze' on pottery (thus 'talking' and 'singing' pottery). The
> 'silicon' being the electro-magnetic resonance carrier, as in the
> coating on cassette music and video tapes, etc...etc....etc....
>
> You've heard of 'crystal' sets? (The first radios--a quartz crystal
> under 'pressure'--one station--one frequency.)
They were Galena crystals, of form of lead. Quartz is an impossible
possibility.
> You've heard of 'police scanners?' (Up to 50 quartz crystals. Each
> one picking up a particular radio frequency--wave length or 'band' of
> 'sound waves.')
>
> You've heard of 'crystal balls'............?
>
> And so goes 'silicon,' 'recording' agent of the ages.
I suggest you learn something about the subject.
--
Rednecks have a grasp of reality. Liberals do not.
Give me a redneck any day.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 59
Matt Giwer
>
> Many years ago I read an article that claimed that ancient
> 'recordings' of speech had been recovered from pottery.
>
> The claim was that the potter was using a stick or tool to shape the
> pottery, and the tool picked up the vibrations of the speech which
> left a readable trace on the pottery. Much like reading the
> indentations on a vinyl record.
>
> I never saw anything more about this. I suppose it is all nonsense,
> but it does capture the imagination.
>
> Anybody remember this?
Yes. It ran in Popular science at least in the 1950s and was based upon
some blue sky idea rather than science.
--
It is better to be tried by twelve than carried by six.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 80
Matt Giwer
>
> On Thu, 02 Aug 2001 02:32:10 GMT, ccam...@email.com (Chris Camfield)
> wrote:
>
> >Of speech? I don't remember anything like that. I do vaguely
> >remember something to do with music... but I don't remember a
> >recording method like you suggest.
> >
> >If you don't get any answers here, try posting in humanities.classics,
> >they might know something.
> >
> > Chris
> Yes, speech. My use of the term 'audio ' wasn't chosen well. I
> suspect the story isn't true, but would like to confirm that.
Quite impossible for a host of reasons. But if for no other reason the
firing process melts and smooths small variations. And glazes compound
the averaging and smoothing problem.
--
None of my opinions are humble.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 96
Matt Giwer
>
> Hi Jim
>
> I do remember the idea, it must have been about 10 years since i heard
> about it. The version that I remember was not recordings from pottery
> but from paintings, from what I recall from memory a LASER could be used
> as an "needle". From what I remember someone wanted to hear what
> Leonardo talked about when painting Mona Lisa.
Other than his saying "Tickle her again" the main problem is the sound
would have to be recorded while wet and everything said while wet
including the janitor cussing out the messy painters. But upon drying it
could not dry symetrically and evenly. Oils take weeks to dry to in
addition to being distorted beyond all recognition they would record
weeks of sounds.
> jim wrote:
> >
> > Many years ago I read an article that claimed that ancient
> > 'recordings' of speech had been recovered from pottery.
> >
> > The claim was that the potter was using a stick or tool to shape the
> > pottery, and the tool picked up the vibrations of the speech which
> > left a readable trace on the pottery. Much like reading the
> > indentations on a vinyl record.
> >
> > I never saw anything more about this. I suppose it is all nonsense,
> > but it does capture the imagination.
> >
> > Anybody remember this?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > jim
--
Always go through life a little bit edible.
You never know when you will meet something hungry.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 138
Kat's Scan
"Fool's Gold is one thing, but to be a 'Fool' is quite another."
'The Iron-pyrite Master'
Kat's Scan
Have you heard of 'Silicon' Valley in California? I don't think you
even know what the 'term' means--its' not called 'Galena' Valley, for a
reason.
'Galena'--which is 'Fools-Gold'--IS found in abundance in
quartz/silicon. But
'Galena' does NOT give the same results as pure silicon--which is purely
non-metallic, and is applied to 'Mylar,' plastic tape as a 'conductor'
of electro-magnetic 'sound' waves. 'Galena' doesn't normally appear in
pure glazes either--even the ancient kinds.
Kat
JWMeritt
>Have you heard of 'Silicon' Valley in California? I don't think you
>even know what the 'term' means--its' not called 'Galena' Valley, for a
>reason.
Semiconductors. While you can make a rectifier out of an NP doped semi, it is
a LOT easier (and less controllable,...) with 'Galena'.
>'Galena' does NOT give the same results as pure silicon--
Nice of you to notice. The earliest radios were made well before we had the
capability to sufficiently purify silicon or germanium.