Barbarians in Greek Art?
JCaesar44
art? Can you name a few examples? All the books I have on art and Greek
history do not give any examples of Barbarians in Greek art. Who did they
consider Barbarians?
Please respond to JCaesar44 as well as the newsgroup. Thank you!
JCaesar
NOTE: Please Remove B.C. from my name to respond. It has been added to help
filter out junk posts.
"I came, I saw, I conquered."
Chrisso Boulis
: Can I ask a rather simple question? How were Barbarians represented in Greek
: art? Can you name a few examples? All the books I have on art and Greek
: history do not give any examples of Barbarians in Greek art. Who did they
: consider Barbarians?
Who was a Barbarian?
Anyone was wasn't Greek!
I take that back, even other Greeks could be considered barbarians.
Depends on the day, the sun , the moon, the barimeter pressure, passing
political fancies, etc. etc. etc. For example, during the hey day
of Athens, anyone who wasn't an Athenian was a Barbarian including
Spartans, Corinthians, Thebans etc.
Yes, this is an oversimplified view but when you are dealing with a
single culture made up of hundreds of independent socio-political
units (city-states); the latter sometimes dictates who is included
in the former.
C.E.S. Boulis
UPMAA
Pete Barrett
>Can I ask a rather simple question? How were Barbarians represented in Greek
>art? Can you name a few examples? All the books I have on art and Greek
>history do not give any examples of Barbarians in Greek art. Who did they
>consider Barbarians?
>
There's that famous statue of a Dying Gaul, which you might like to look at. I
can't remember where it is at present, and it's Hellenistic, rather than
Classical, so it may not be the period you're thinking of, but I would expect
any book which covers art at all in the period would have a photograph.
Pete Barrett
David White
Chrisso Boulis wrote in message <7bhanp$hg0$1...@netnews.upenn.edu>...
>
>Who was a Barbarian?
>Anyone was wasn't Greek!
>I take that back, even other Greeks could be considered barbarians.
>Depends on the day, the sun , the moon, the barimeter pressure, passing
>political fancies, etc. etc. etc. For example, during the hey day
>of Athens, anyone who wasn't an Athenian was a Barbarian including
>Spartans, Corinthians, Thebans etc.
Yes, this is similar to today's Western world considering anyone who doesn't
succumb to the Mickey Mouse American culture as barbaric, are thus lesser
mortals, and can therefore be bombed/massacred without a word of protest.
peri...@my-dejanews.com
jcae...@aol.comB.C. (JCaesar44) wrote:
> Can I ask a rather simple question? How were Barbarians represented in Greek
> art? Can you name a few examples? All the books I have on art and Greek
> history do not give any examples of Barbarians in Greek art. Who did they
> consider Barbarians?
>
>
> JCaesar
Julius, it's been a while hasn't it?
In any case the Greeks considered anyone who wasn't one of what they
considered Greek(i.e. live in a Polis and speaking Greek were two major
requirements) either semi-barbarians (as in the Macedonians, who of course,
thought they were better than the Greeks in turn. The Macedonians were
hellenized, the Royal House had Greek pretensions in education and the arts,
so I guess that qualifies for the semi-part. And they drank their wine neat,
not mixed with water - to a Greek, a hideously barbaric custom)or full
barbarians. The two most famous Greek sculptures of 'barbarians' sometimes
both attributed to Epigonus are 'The Dying Gaul' sometimes known as the
'Dying Trumpeter,' and the "Lidovisi Gaul', sometimes called 'The Suicidal
Celt.' Both are in most art books, and are Roman copies of Greek originals.
You may also want to consider the Alexander Mosaic, thought to be a Roman
copy of an earlier Greek Painting contemporary with Alexander vs. Darius,
Great King of Persian, or Semi-Barbarian (Alexander didn't become a 'Greek'
hero until well after his death.) vs. full Barbarian, with the 'barbaric'
Persians as the enemy. Note, this was probably originally commissioned by a
fellow Macedonian, but painted by a Greek. As a rule however, the Greeks
tended to stick to portrayal of those they liked best - themselves and their
Gods. Commissions by well-heeled Barbarians certainly occurred. Very few
original Greek Sculptures and only a scant few paintings exist (on the tombs
at Vergina, thought to be the resting places of Philip II and Philip III,
father and half-brother of Alexander). Most of what we know comes from Roman
copies or Roman descriptions of famous Greek works. Since many works were in
bronze and transcribed to marble, in some instances the copies diminish the
originals. Any book by Andrew Stewart, a specialist on Art of the Greeks,
would do you very well. I would suspect aforementioned art works are famous
enough to be pictured on the web if you do a search.
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Rockeye99
xenophobic attitute towards others. yet one of a myriad of reasons why war is
a universal concept. instead lets discuss the tendancy of cultures to
simultaneously scoff at and emulate "barbarian" traits i.e. the rise of
hip-hop/rap music in england; the dreamcatchers we see hanging from rear-view
mirrors, the roman's penchant for greek tutors and art . . . et al.
Rock...@AOL.commie
Chrisso Boulis
: JCaesar44 (jcae...@aol.comB.C.) wrote:
: : Can I ask a rather simple question? How were Barbarians represented in Greek
: : art? Can you name a few examples? All the books I have on art and Greek
: : history do not give any examples of Barbarians in Greek art. Who did they
: : consider Barbarians?
What I forgot to add with the earlier post was that since anyone
could be a "Barbarian" by Greek definition. However, there
are a couple of groups which head the list of Barbarians. Some
look just like "Greeks" - no surprise; others have characteristic
"foreign-Barbarian" attributes.
So here are a few "barbarians" for whom there are illustrations
on pottery; wall painting and or in sculpture:
Etruscans,
Romans,
Phyrgians,
Persians,
Gauls,
Amazons,
Trojans.
Spartans (a very Athenian perspective)
C.E.S. Boulis
UPMAA
Brant Gibbard
Boulis) wrote:
>So here are a few "barbarians" for whom there are illustrations
>on pottery; wall painting and or in sculpture:
>Etruscans,
>Romans,
>Phyrgians,
>Persians,
>Gauls,
>Amazons,
>Trojans.
>Spartans (a very Athenian perspective)
>
Centaurs ;-)
Brant Gibbard
bgib...@inforamp.net
Toronto, Ont.
Chrisso Boulis
: On 3 Mar 1999 17:13:25 GMT, cbo...@mail1.sas.upenn.edu (Chrisso
: Boulis) wrote:
: >So here are a few "barbarians" for whom there are illustrations
: >on pottery; wall painting and or in sculpture:
: >Etruscans,
: >Romans,
: >Phyrgians,
: >Persians,
: >Gauls,
: >Amazons,
: >Trojans.
: >Spartans (a very Athenian perspective)
: >
: Centaurs ;-)
Maenads and Satyrs (oh My!) as well.
Ah, the real "party animals" obviously must be included
with the "barbarians" ;-)
C.E.S. Boulis
UPMAA