Where is the real Jerusalem in the NT text, treated as a historical source?
crunch
> crunch wrote:
>...
> > In terms of the Thiering Thesis how does Dr. Thiering
> > put the scene of the Crucifixion at Qumran, according
> > to NT text?
>
> She has read the crucifixion texts in the bible in such a way
> that the locations involved are mapped onto locations in and
> around Qumran, using, among other things, a sort of replacement
> cypher with Qumran substituting for Jerusalem and environs.
>...
On humanity and on Jerusalem
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/qumran_origin/message/4300
"Being at risk of descending into platitudes, I'll turn to a recent
question,
about the singular and plural forms of the Greek word "Jerusalem". To
save you
the complicated technical process that Bob Smart has described, I'll
give the
simple answer that is made plain in my books. The plural form means
Qumran , the
New Jerusalem for the exiles, the singular form means the literal
Jerusalem.
John's gospel uses only the plural form, for Qumran. When it means the
literal
Jerusalem, it uses "Saleim" in 3:23, the name for Jerusalem in Gen
14:18, with
its Melchizedek association. It also uses "Ephraim" in 11:54, giving
an
interesting link with 4QpNah 2:1-2.
All main events in John's gospel occurred at Qumran and its outposts.
The
distances of certain places from "Jerusalem (plu)" gives strong
confirmation.
When their meaning is understood, the distances agree exactly with Ain
Feshkha,
Khirbet Mazin, and the "queen's house". This is explained in #786.
Mark also uses only the plural form of the word. Next comes Luke,
written third
in my view, clarifying this and many questions. He introduces the
singular form
in all cases except 2:22, 13:22, 19:28, 23:7. Matthew uses the
singular once, in
28:37. Acts uses both, showing the difference between the two places
to those
who understood. A signal to the pesharist is that Acts seems to say
that
Barnabas and Paul went from Jerusalem to Jerusalem, in 11:27-30 and
12:25 (in
the superior texts). The former is plural, the latter singular."
-----
Symbolism of places
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/qumran_origin/message/786
"It is striking that in the gospels, especially John, there are
careful notes of distances. This is all the more striking given the
apparent absence of any information about the years of Jesus’ ministry
and other such essential detail. According to Jn 11: 18, the place
called Bethany is 15 stadia from ‘Jerusalem’ in the plural form.
According to Jn 6: 19 the disciples rowed in a boat for ‘25 or 30
stadia.’ 5 stadia = 2000 cubits, or approximately a kilometre.
When the Qumran area was explored, some ruins of a building at Ain
Feshkha were found, 3 kms (15 stadia) south down the coast from the
Qumran plateau. Further ruins were found at a place now called Khirbet
Mazin, 6 kms (30 stadia) down the coast from Qumran. In ancient times
it was only accessible by boat from the north. These two places are
shown on the survey map. Another small ruin is described in Humbert
(ref 1) and de Vaux (ref 2), 1 km (5 stadia) down from Qumran. These
sites all indicated a connection with Qumran. They form part of a
chain of connected places used by ascetics all down the west coast of
the Dead Sea.
Thus, taking Qumran as a starting-point, the small ruin was 5 stadia
away, Ain Feshkha 15 stadia away, and Khirbet Mazin 30 stadia away.
The latter place was also 25 stadia from the small ruin. These
distances are the same as the distances given in Jn 11: 18 and 6: 19.
With many other indications, it could be seen that Qumran was the
place called ‘Jerusalem’ in the plural form, and these places were
outposts of Qumran."
David Christainsen
Newton, Mass. USA
Sir David
Carl rides his hobbyhorse.
Tom McDonald
While at the same time avoiding replying to me in the Crucifixion
thread.
But he's not obsessed; not him, no.