Fifteenth Century Templars
Edgar De Blieck
of l'Ordre de Chypre in the fifteenth Century? I've had a look and can't
find any reliable ones.
EDEB.
Heather
following in exactly.......
"knights templar" +chypre.........and you will get about 13 websites.
Make sure you put the quotes around knights templar.......and no space
between the plus and chypre.
If you click on 'cached' instead of the webpage, it will bring up the
site with the words you want in coloured blocks......i.e. knights
templar in yellow.....chypre in blue.
Have fun.....they are fascinating to me as well. And I do have some
books here on the knights templar, but not Chypre to my knowledge.
Cheers.....Heather
"Edgar De Blieck" <Debl...@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:bmj7js$mhh$1...@hercules.btinternet.com...
Françoise
I thought the templars (templiers) were more or less all executed by
Philippe le Bel in the 13th century. Are we talking about other templars?
I will go to Google and look at the WEB site given.
Françoise.
Heather
The Knights Templar are still in existence in the US, Canada and the
British Isles. The link below gives some thoughts on the continuance.
I do know that there is a Knights Templar Lodge in Nova Scotia in Canada
that meets over in Scotland at the Sinclair (St. Clair) castle
regularly. I believe it is called Rosslyn Chapel.
http://www.templarhistory.com/mts.html
The following links give all sorts of information on the Templars. I
read some books a few years back on the Sinclair Castle and the
connection with the Canadian Templars. I also know (as my husband is a
Mason) that there was an organization for younger boys called "De Molay"
in the US.
http://www.siol-nan-gaidheal.com/templar.htm
http://www.atlantisrising.com/issue20/20templar.html
Have a look around thru Google and see what you can find...... I haven't
read the Holy Blood, Holy Grail book for at least 15 years......but
wasn't there a Templar connection with the French church and the Grail?
The name of the town in France escapes me at the moment. Found
it.....Renne-le-Chateau with connections to the Cathars and the Scottish
Masons. There is a bit on it at
http://www.1earth.com.au/militaria/mason/mason05.html
http://historymedren.about.com/cs/templars/ is another site on the
history of the order.
Basically there is a lot of mystery about them......but I do know that
they are definitely still in existence. There seems to be a lot of
information on the 'net......both real and not real.
Best......Heather (Canada)
"Françoise" <ja...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3F8DDADF...@sympatico.ca...
Françoise
What I know about the templars is taken in great part from "Les rois
maudits" by Maurice Druon, which is an historic novel, and very close to
history and from reading about Philippe le Bel. I have not gone to Google
yet but I want to go. I am curious to know if the modern templars come in a
continuous way from those living in the 13th century and having survived the
execution. Or are they from some newly formed groups created in modern
times following the customs of the middle ages templars?
You mentioned that your husband is a Mason; are the templars related to the
Masons?
I thank you for the addresses. I hope to have some time tomorrow to visit
these sites. It is too late now for that.
Françoise.
Heather
I can't add that much at the moment......I will have to refresh my
memory first. But there is a connection with Freemasons and Templars,
but it is a bit of a mystery......as no documentation pertaining to that
seems to exist. As to whether they follow the customs of the 14th
century templars, I would not know. There also seems to be a lot of
mystery with Rosslyn Chapel, the Sinclairs in Scotland and so on. You
will see that when you get a chance to read the different websites I
gave you.
I find their history fascinating and I know there are books on it. We
have two very old encyclopedias on Freemasonry from 1873 here and I will
take a look at what they have on the Templars. I do remember looking up
the De Molay Society in the US at one time, so there should be
information on the Templars. OK, I just had a look and there are many
pages on the Knights Templar and the Masonic Knights Templar. But I
will have to look at it tomorrow.
Heather
"Françoise" <ja...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3F8E1AEC...@sympatico.ca...
Martin Harlow
<ja...@sympatico.ca> writes
>Heather,
>
>What I know about the templars is taken in great part from "Les rois
>maudits" by Maurice Druon, which is an historic novel, and very close to
>history and from reading about Philippe le Bel. I have not gone to Google
>yet but I want to go. I am curious to know if the modern templars come in a
>continuous way from those living in the 13th century and having survived the
>execution. Or are they from some newly formed groups created in modern
>times following the customs of the middle ages templars?
>
>You mentioned that your husband is a Mason; are the templars related to the
>Masons?
Good questions, and they've spawned an entire book industry. Books like
the Holy Blood and the Holy Grail come up with some fascinating theories
based on some rather shaky evidence and a lot of supposition, and there
are probably as many theories as there are books on the subject. Read
around the subject if you like, but don't expect any definitive answers
or real proof. The Templar's were 'officially' wiped out in the C13th.
After that they were either extinct or went so far underground that
there won't be any evidence of them. Claims of present day groups that
they are connected to the original Templar's should therefore be treated
rather sceptically, imho, but you never know...
ttfn
Martin
--
Shepherdess No Temptation That Poussin Teniers Hold The Key
Peace 681 By The Cross And This Horse Of God
I Complete This Daemon Guardian At Midday Blue Apples
Martin Harlow mar...@freedonia.demon.co.uk
Todd A. Farmerie
Heather wrote:
> I can't add that much at the moment......I will have to refresh my
> memory first. But there is a connection with Freemasons and Templars,
> but it is a bit of a mystery......as no documentation pertaining to that
> seems to exist.
It seems an obvious question, but if there is no documentation
pertaining to any connection, then how can you say with such
certainty that such a connection exists?
> As to whether they follow the customs of the 14th
> century templars, I would not know. There also seems to be a lot of
> mystery with Rosslyn Chapel, the Sinclairs in Scotland and so on. You
> will see that when you get a chance to read the different websites I
> gave you.
Hmm, castle falling down, no money to pay for the upkeep. I
know, let's say that the Templars held secret meetings tere.
Then all of the Templar wannabees will come flocking, with their
money. Solves that problem right quick.
Seriously though, just because modern people calling themselves
'Templars' call Rosslyn a 'Templar chapel' and go there neither
makes them Templars, nor makes it a Templar chapel. The bigger
mystery with Rosslyn is why so many people have latched onto some
iffy iconography there to give it such a central role in their
elaborate pseudo-historical construct.
As to websites, the web is a great resource for accurate
information. Unfortunately, it is an even better source of
inaccurate information, and provides the reader with no basis for
distinguishing one from the other. That requires evidence and
critical evaluation, both of which are sadly in short supply on
the internet.
> I find their history fascinating and I know there are books on it. We
> have two very old encyclopedias on Freemasonry from 1873 here and I will
> take a look at what they have on the Templars. I do remember looking up
> the De Molay Society in the US at one time, so there should be
> information on the Templars. OK, I just had a look and there are many
> pages on the Knights Templar and the Masonic Knights Templar. But I
> will have to look at it tomorrow.
The fact that the Masons chose to model certain aspects of their
organization on what they perceived to be Templar traditions need
not indicate any connection. American college fraternities use
Greek letters and holds a Toga Parties, but that doesn't make
them representatives of a continuous secret underground society
that has persisted unheard of for thousands of years, dating from
Homer's time. You can't fault the Masons for imagination, but
that doesn't mean it is history. For history you need evidence,
and as you said above, there isn't any.
taf
Edgar De Blieck
EDEB.
Martin Reboul
Martin Harlow wrote ...
> Françoise writes
> >Heather,
> >
> >What I know about the templars is taken in great part from "Les rois
> >maudits" by Maurice Druon, which is an historic novel, and very close to
> >history and from reading about Philippe le Bel. I have not gone to Google
> >yet but I want to go. I am curious to know if the modern templars come in
a
> >continuous way from those living in the 13th century and having survived
the
> >execution. Or are they from some newly formed groups created in modern
> >times following the customs of the middle ages templars?
> >
> >You mentioned that your husband is a Mason; are the templars related to
the
> >Masons?
Only ritualistically, and much of that results from 18th century imagination
I suspect.
> Good questions, and they've spawned an entire book industry. Books like
> the Holy Blood and the Holy Grail come up with some fascinating theories
> based on some rather shaky evidence and a lot of supposition, and there
> are probably as many theories as there are books on the subject. Read
> around the subject if you like, but don't expect any definitive answers
> or real proof. The Templar's were 'officially' wiped out in the C13th.
> After that they were either extinct or went so far underground that
> there won't be any evidence of them. Claims of present day groups that
> they are connected to the original Templar's should therefore be treated
> rather sceptically, imho, but you never know...
>
> ttfn
>
> Martin
>
> --
> Shepherdess No Temptation That Poussin Teniers Hold The Key
> Peace 681 By The Cross And This Horse Of God
> I Complete This Daemon Guardian At Midday Blue Apples
Now that rings a bell. Sauniere was a most intriguing character.... I'd love
to know what games he played with the Vatican! He wasn't on the level
though, I'm pretty sure of that, and anyone should be very cautious when
investigating this matter. Take everything with a pinch of salt - it is easy
to get lost in fascinating backwaters and dead ends - that's the trouble
with 'secrecy'.
The basic premise of the 'holy blood and holy grail' is that Jesus was not
actually executed, but moved to the S. of France with his 'wife' Mary
Magdelane. They had children whose descendents became the Merovingians. That
is the 'holy blood' bit.
The 'holy grail' stuff comes from the secret brotherhoods and peculiar sects
who sought to keep this secret, yet keep it going at the same time. This
brings in super stuff like Arthur, Parsifal and the Grail... possibly
derived from the word 'sangreal'... the cup that held the 'holy blood' being
thus symbolic - a bloodline rather than a cup (which is why it never turned
up in an antique shop). Lovely stuff!
Of course, the Sinclair connection is through ancestry... though I daresay
Sir Clive Sinclair is as much related to Jesus Christ as D Spencer Hines is
related to Richard the Lionheart. If he was, surely God wouldn't have let
him invent the C5?
Cheers
Martin
Denis Beauregard
écrivait dans soc.genealogy.french:
>Heather,
>
>I thought the templars (templiers) were more or less all executed by
>Philippe le Bel in the 13th century. Are we talking about other templars?
>I will go to Google and look at the WEB site given.
Whatever was his power, Philippe le Bel was the king of France,
not the king of the universe, so he could only kill those under
his control, that is the knights in France.
The big question is then: where were the templiars at that time ?
Only in France or in many countries ? I remember they were acting
as bankers for travelers and they were offering their services in
many countries.
Denis
--
0 Denis Beauregard
/\/ www.francogene.com
|\ >>Adresse modifiée souvent/email changed frequently<<
/ | Société généalogique canadienne-française
oo oo Mon association a 60 ans en 2003 ! - www.sgcf.com
Heather
"Denis Beauregard" <n...@spam.com> wrote in message
news:e0atov8jmmko1dds3...@4ax.com...
> Le Wed, 15 Oct 2003 19:40:15 -0400, Françoise <ja...@sympatico.ca>
> écrivait dans soc.genealogy.french:
>
> >Heather,
> >
> >I thought the templars (templiers) were more or less all executed by
> >Philippe le Bel in the 13th century. Are we talking about other
templars?
> >I will go to Google and look at the WEB site given.
>
> Whatever was his power, Philippe le Bel was the king of France,
> not the king of the universe, so he could only kill those under
> his control, that is the knights in France.
>
> The big question is then: where were the templiars at that time ?
> Only in France or in many countries ? I remember they were acting
> as bankers for travelers and they were offering their services in
> many countries.
>
>
Writing this at 1:30 a.m. was not the best time. I have not looked into
the Knights Templar for many years, but you are right. They did offer
their services to other countries. The Scottish connection allegedly is
with Robert the Bruce.
I should have checked to see where this was cross-posted.......anything
to do with that idiot D. Spencer Hines I avoid. I am not a historian
and never claimed to be......I just have an interest in the Templars and
a husband who knows a lot of Masonic history that is not available in
the bookstores.....
And the Masons do not claim to be 'descended' from the Templars....they
had their own fraternal organization. In the 131 year old encyclopedia,
they do say that there is unfortunately no 'written' proof of an
association with the Templars.....so in my words, it is to be taken with
a grain of salt or two.
But one thing I do know......the Freemasons have been around much longer
than 200 years.
Thanks......Heather
>
Martin Reboul
Heather wrote...
>
> Denis Beauregard wrote...
> > Françoise écrivait
In essence... but not in the form we see today.
Martin Harlow
Beauregard <n...@spam.com> writes
>Le Wed, 15 Oct 2003 19:40:15 -0400, Françoise <ja...@sympatico.ca>
>écrivait dans soc.genealogy.french:
>
>>Heather,
>>
>>I thought the templars (templiers) were more or less all executed by
>>Philippe le Bel in the 13th century. Are we talking about other templars?
>>I will go to Google and look at the WEB site given.
>
>Whatever was his power, Philippe le Bel was the king of France,
>not the king of the universe, so he could only kill those under
>his control, that is the knights in France.
>
>The big question is then: where were the templiars at that time ?
>Only in France or in many countries ? I remember they were acting
>as bankers for travelers and they were offering their services in
>many countries.
They were based in France iirc. Also remember that Philippe had the
Catholic church on his side (which allegedly owed lots of money to the
Templars) and there weren't too many places to hide from them. Though
Scotland and America are a couple of candidates, of course...
ttfn
Martin
--
Mother Very Easily Made a Jam Sandwich Using No Peanuts, Quaaludes, Mayonnaise
or Glue
Martin Harlow mar...@freedonia.demon.co.uk
Martin Harlow
boul1471.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>
>Martin Harlow wrote ...
>> Shepherdess No Temptation That Poussin Teniers Hold The Key
>> Peace 681 By The Cross And This Horse Of God
>> I Complete This Daemon Guardian At Midday Blue Apples
>
>Now that rings a bell. Sauniere was a most intriguing character.... I'd love
>to know what games he played with the Vatican! He wasn't on the level
>though, I'm pretty sure of that, and anyone should be very cautious when
>investigating this matter. Take everything with a pinch of salt - it is easy
>to get lost in fascinating backwaters and dead ends - that's the trouble
>with 'secrecy'.
Quite so. Think about how difficult it is today for authorities to prove
that someone has been up to something dodgy last year with all the
modern communications and records and witnesses and so on. Then think
how much real evidence of secretive goings on will survive from a
century or more back. We'll probably never know what Sauniere's game
was, and I love a good yarn spun around a mystery, but one has to
remember that the kind of speculation you get in the books on the
subject is just that.
ttfn
Martin
--
"If you keep your head when all about you are losing
theirs, you've misunderstood the situation."
Martin Harlow mar...@freedonia.demon.co.uk
Denis Beauregard
<mar...@freedonia.demon.co.uk> écrivait dans soc.genealogy.french:
>In article <e0atov8jmmko1dds3...@4ax.com>, Denis
>Beauregard <n...@spam.com> writes
>>Le Wed, 15 Oct 2003 19:40:15 -0400, Françoise <ja...@sympatico.ca>
>>écrivait dans soc.genealogy.french:
>>
>>>Heather,
>>>
>>>I thought the templars (templiers) were more or less all executed by
>>>Philippe le Bel in the 13th century. Are we talking about other templars?
>>>I will go to Google and look at the WEB site given.
See: 13th century
>They were based in France iirc. Also remember that Philippe had the
>Catholic church on his side (which allegedly owed lots of money to the
>Templars) and there weren't too many places to hide from them. Though
>Scotland and America are a couple of candidates, of course...
While it is quite possible someone knew about it, I am not sure
America can be a candidate...
Maybe this take-over is one reason for the emergence of the Protestant
churches a little later ?
R Ouimet
"Denis Beauregard" <n...@spam.com> a écrit dans le message de
news:u3buovc9f08vhtgkr...@4ax.com...
> Le Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:28:41 +0100, Martin Harlow
> <mar...@freedonia.demon.co.uk> écrivait dans soc.genealogy.french:
>
> >In article <e0atov8jmmko1dds3...@4ax.com>, Denis
> >Beauregard <n...@spam.com> writes
> >>Le Wed, 15 Oct 2003 19:40:15 -0400, Françoise <ja...@sympatico.ca>
> >>écrivait dans soc.genealogy.french:
> >>
> >>>Heather,
> >>>
> >>>I thought the templars (templiers) were more or less all executed by
> >>>Philippe le Bel in the 13th century. Are we talking about other
templars?
> >>>I will go to Google and look at the WEB site given.
>
> See: 13th century
>
> >They were based in France iirc. Also remember that Philippe had the
> >Catholic church on his side (which allegedly owed lots of money to the
> >Templars) and there weren't too many places to hide from them. Though
> >Scotland and America are a couple of candidates, of course...
>
> While it is quite possible someone knew about it, I am not sure
> America can be a candidate...
>
> Maybe this take-over is one reason for the emergence of the Protestant
> churches a little later ?
>
>
> Denis
>
N'y a-t-il pas un lien entre les templiers et les chevaliers de Malte ?
Raymond O.
Martin Harlow
Beauregard <n...@spam.com> writes
>Le Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:28:41 +0100, Martin Harlow
><mar...@freedonia.demon.co.uk> écrivait dans soc.genealogy.french:
>>They were based in France iirc. Also remember that Philippe had the
>>Catholic church on his side (which allegedly owed lots of money to the
>>Templars) and there weren't too many places to hide from them. Though
>>Scotland and America are a couple of candidates, of course...
>
>While it is quite possible someone knew about it, I am not sure
>America can be a candidate...
The Templars were supposed to be expert navigators, and istr that
someone found a very old grave in America which could be that of a
Templar knight. Maybe, perhaps. Don't forget that Columbus was the
_last_ person to discover America, not the first!
ttfn
Martin
--
'I used to have an open mind but my brains kept falling out.'
Steven Wright
Martin Harlow mar...@freedonia.demon.co.uk
Todd A. Farmerie
Martin Harlow wrote:
> The Templars were supposed to be expert navigators,
Supposed by those who wish for them to have discovered America.
At least in the Holy Land, they were perhaps best known for
leading headlong charges without giving sufficient thought to
exit strategy. For example, intending to ride straight through a
muslim city, they charged the gate and broke through, barreling
down the main avenue, hacking and destroying as they went, only
to find out when they got to the city wall on the far side that
there was no gate there, and they would have to make their way
back through the hornet's nest they had left in their wake if
they wanted to get back out - most of them didn't. Yes, these
are the geniuses who discovered America and managed to found
every secret society in existence without letting the word slip.
> and istr that
> someone found a very old grave in America which could be that of a
> Templar knight. Maybe, perhaps.
No such grave. Someone found a deep hole with some wood in it on
an island, and decided it must have been the Templars that dug
it. Someone else found the carving of a knight on a rock, and
decided it must have been the Templars that carved it as a grave
marker. Not sure which one you are refering to, but neither of
these holds up to critical evaluation. While we are at it, I am
sure someone has suggested that the Templars carved the Face on Mars.
> Don't forget that Columbus was the
> _last_ person to discover America, not the first!
Not that either.
taf
Tron Furu
"Edgar De Blieck" <Debl...@btopenworld.com> skrev i melding
news:bmj7js$mhh$1...@hercules.btinternet.com...
Re this answer in a different thread:
It (scil. the order of the Templars) was abolished on March 22, 1312 by the
papal bull "Vox in excelso".
(Michael Kuettner).
So, if it emerged again later, musn't there have been papal orders, permits,
grants, charters, licences or something else that permitted somebody to
resurrect the order or use its name?
T
Françoise
I went to all the sites you mentioned as well as some found in Google. I was
interested until they reach the beginning of the 14th century where it
became too queer for me. I did not stop reading there but from then on I got
less interested. Thank you for the work that my question may have caused
you.
Françoise.
Inger E Johansson
they still exists in Sweden as well. Gothenburg and Linköping I know of. The
Rosslyn information I can confirm.
Inger E
"Françoise" <ja...@sympatico.ca> skrev i meddelandet
news:3F906571...@sympatico.ca...
Heather
But it seems that there are those that do not wish to believe this.
The links I gave to Francoise were simply a few that I found via
Google......not necessarily the best ones. I was a bit rushed for time
that night.
Best......Heather (Canada)
"Inger E Johansson" <inger_e....@notelia.com> wrote in message
news:cWZjb.33585$dP1.1...@newsc.telia.net...
Todd A. Farmerie
Inger E Johansson wrote:
> "Françoise" and Heather,
> they still exists in Sweden as well. Gothenburg and Linköping I know of. The
> Rosslyn information I can confirm.
That there are people today calling themselves Templars I do not
doubt, just as there are people calling themselves Vikings in
Minnesota, and people calling themselves Pirates in Pittsburgh.
There are people who call themselves druids and witches too.
That such groups have any connection whatsoever to their older
namesakes is a different claim entirely.
taf
Gordon Johnson
>Thanks, Inger. I can also confirm that they exist in the US and Canada.
>But it seems that there are those that do not wish to believe this.
** There is a BIG difference between "still exist" and "exist now".
The original order was dissolved. All the modern versions are later
introductions, aimed at reviving the Templar ideals.
Gordon.
KinHelp - Scottish Historical & Genealogical Services
Website: http://www.kinhelp.co.uk
Pre-1700 is our speciality.
Inger E Johansson
"Gordon Johnson" <gor...@kinhelp.co.uk> skrev i meddelandet
news:3f91d41a...@news.ifb.co.uk...
> On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 01:40:00 GMT, "Heather" <fer...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> >Thanks, Inger. I can also confirm that they exist in the US and Canada.
> >But it seems that there are those that do not wish to believe this.
> ** There is a BIG difference between "still exist" and "exist now".
> The original order was dissolved. All the modern versions are later
> introductions, aimed at reviving the Templar ideals.
> Gordon.
>
Gordon,
sorry having to correct you. Between 1309 and 1715(!) the Templars continued
to exist in Scandinavia. Those years they today call 'the silent years', the
years when they weren't allowed to work out in the open. Once during that
period and also once later they have had an offer from the Papal Church that
the Pope should withdraw the originial Ban. Since that also included that
the Templars had to accept the Catholic Faith as the only true Christian the
Templars refused. Today the Templars still has active members in Sweden,
Norway, Denmark and Finland.
Inger E
Michael Kuettner
"Inger E Johansson" <inger_e....@notelia.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:x0xkb.33826$dP1.1...@newsc.telia.net...
>
> "Gordon Johnson" <gor...@kinhelp.co.uk> skrev i meddelandet
> news:3f91d41a...@news.ifb.co.uk...
> > On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 01:40:00 GMT, "Heather" <fer...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Thanks, Inger. I can also confirm that they exist in the US and
Canada.
> > >But it seems that there are those that do not wish to believe this.
> > ** There is a BIG difference between "still exist" and "exist now".
> > The original order was dissolved. All the modern versions are later
> > introductions, aimed at reviving the Templar ideals.
> > Gordon.
> >
>
> Gordon,
> sorry having to correct you. Between 1309 and 1715(!) the Templars
continued
> to exist in Scandinavia.
Bullshit.
The order was dissolved.
Until the vatican revives it, there are no knights templar.
William Black
>
> "Gordon Johnson" <gor...@kinhelp.co.uk> skrev i meddelandet
> news:3f91d41a...@news.ifb.co.uk...
> > On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 01:40:00 GMT, "Heather" <fer...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Thanks, Inger. I can also confirm that they exist in the US and
Canada.
> > >But it seems that there are those that do not wish to believe this.
> > ** There is a BIG difference between "still exist" and "exist now".
> > The original order was dissolved. All the modern versions are later
> > introductions, aimed at reviving the Templar ideals.
> > Gordon.
> >
>
> Gordon,
> sorry having to correct you. Between 1309 and 1715(!) the Templars
continued
> to exist in Scandinavia. Those years they today call 'the silent years',
Oh wow, this is sensational stuff, erm...
Cite please...
--
William Black
------------------
On time, on budget, or works;
Pick any two from three
Gordon Johnson
** As the Pope disbanded the organisation (which was a church
organisation), it was indeed disbanded. Any other organisation, or
group of former members, which continued to function outwith the
church was therefore NOT the original Order. Q.E.D.
There are, and have been for some time and in various places, orders
assuming the title, but that does not make them legitimate, nor can
they function as the original Order did.
There was only the ONE Christian church in Europe up until the
Reformation, and so if your Templars were refusing the Christian faith
(no alternative to R.C.s until the Reformation), they were not true
Templars.
Inger E Johansson
They never refused Christian Faith they only refused the Pope and they
weren't given an option until after the Reformation. They were and are true
Templars.
Inger E
Lesley Robertson
"Inger E Johansson" <inger_e....@notelia.com> wrote in message
news:7bhlb.34301$dP1.1...@newsc.telia.net...
> > organisation), it was indeed disbanded. Any other organisation, or
> > group of former members, which continued to function outwith the
> > church was therefore NOT the original Order. Q.E.D.
> > There are, and have been for some time and in various places, orders
> > assuming the title, but that does not make them legitimate, nor can
> > they function as the original Order did.
> > There was only the ONE Christian church in Europe up until the
> > Reformation, and so if your Templars were refusing the Christian faith
> > (no alternative to R.C.s until the Reformation), they were not true
> > Templars.
>
> They never refused Christian Faith they only refused the Pope and they
> weren't given an option until after the Reformation. They were and are
true
> Templars.
>
with the Pope as Commander in Chief. When the Pope disbanded them, whether
or not his behaviour was justified, groups survived in different countries
and may have continued in their old ways, but saying that the Templars
continued to exists is like saying that the Aztec army still exists long
after they were disbanded. There may be New Templars around, and they may
have been founded by members of the original Templars, but it's a different
organisation (which doesn't make them wrong or bad, just different) - after
all, they're not carrying out the functions of the original Templars are
they?
Mind you, that would set the cat among the pigeons, if the Vatican suddenly
announced that they'd decided to revive their own army!
Lesley Robertson
@hotmail.com.invalid Eric D. Berge
<l.a.ro...@tnw.tudelft.nl> wrote:
>Mind you, that would set the cat among the pigeons, if the Vatican suddenly
>announced that they'd decided to revive their own army!
Well, I imagine that the Swiss Guards would be quite put out.
Gordon Johnson
<inger_e....@notelia.com> wrote:
*** " They never refused Christian Faith" !
- The only option pre-Reformation was the Catholic Church or nothing.
There was NO alternative Christian Faith in Europe, back then.
True Templars are those belonging to the Catholic church's Order, and
that was disbanded by order of the Pope.
Or do you have a different definition of the word "True"?
Josev
It was rumoured that there was a hidden cache of Templar treasure there,
though todate, no one has ever found it.
Josev
"R Ouimet" <raymond...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:uZIjb.2482$F31.3...@news20.bellglobal.com...