> On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 01:40:00 GMT, "Heather" <fer...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >Thanks, Inger. I can also confirm that they exist in the US and Canada. > >But it seems that there are those that do not wish to believe this. > ** There is a BIG difference between "still exist" and "exist now". > The original order was dissolved. All the modern versions are later > introductions, aimed at reviving the Templar ideals. > Gordon.
Gordon, sorry having to correct you. Between 1309 and 1715(!) the Templars continued to exist in Scandinavia. Those years they today call 'the silent years', the years when they weren't allowed to work out in the open. Once during that period and also once later they have had an offer from the Papal Church that the Pope should withdraw the originial Ban. Since that also included that the Templars had to accept the Catholic Faith as the only true Christian the Templars refused. Today the Templars still has active members in Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Finland.
> "Gordon Johnson" <gor...@kinhelp.co.uk> skrev i meddelandet > news:3f91d41a.30499186@news.ifb.co.uk... > > On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 01:40:00 GMT, "Heather" <fer...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > >Thanks, Inger. I can also confirm that they exist in the US and Canada. > > >But it seems that there are those that do not wish to believe this. > > ** There is a BIG difference between "still exist" and "exist now". > > The original order was dissolved. All the modern versions are later > > introductions, aimed at reviving the Templar ideals. > > Gordon.
> Gordon, > sorry having to correct you. Between 1309 and 1715(!) the Templars continued > to exist in Scandinavia.
<snip>
Bullshit. The order was dissolved. Until the vatican revives it, there are no knights templar.
> "Gordon Johnson" <gor...@kinhelp.co.uk> skrev i meddelandet > news:3f91d41a.30499186@news.ifb.co.uk... > > On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 01:40:00 GMT, "Heather" <fer...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > >Thanks, Inger. I can also confirm that they exist in the US and Canada. > > >But it seems that there are those that do not wish to believe this. > > ** There is a BIG difference between "still exist" and "exist now". > > The original order was dissolved. All the modern versions are later > > introductions, aimed at reviving the Templar ideals. > > Gordon.
> Gordon, > sorry having to correct you. Between 1309 and 1715(!) the Templars continued > to exist in Scandinavia. Those years they today call 'the silent years',
Oh wow, this is sensational stuff, erm...
Cite please...
-- William Black ------------------ On time, on budget, or works; Pick any two from three
>"Gordon Johnson" <gor...@kinhelp.co.uk> skrev i meddelandet >news:3f91d41a.30499186@news.ifb.co.uk... >> On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 01:40:00 GMT, "Heather" <fer...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> >Thanks, Inger. I can also confirm that they exist in the US and Canada. >> >But it seems that there are those that do not wish to believe this. >> ** There is a BIG difference between "still exist" and "exist now". >> The original order was dissolved. All the modern versions are later >> introductions, aimed at reviving the Templar ideals. >> Gordon.
>Gordon, >sorry having to correct you. Between 1309 and 1715(!) the Templars continued >to exist in Scandinavia. Those years they today call 'the silent years', the >years when they weren't allowed to work out in the open. Once during that >period and also once later they have had an offer from the Papal Church that >the Pope should withdraw the originial Ban. Since that also included that >the Templars had to accept the Catholic Faith as the only true Christian the >Templars refused. Today the Templars still has active members in Sweden, >Norway, Denmark and Finland.
>Inger E
** As the Pope disbanded the organisation (which was a church organisation), it was indeed disbanded. Any other organisation, or group of former members, which continued to function outwith the church was therefore NOT the original Order. Q.E.D. There are, and have been for some time and in various places, orders assuming the title, but that does not make them legitimate, nor can they function as the original Order did. There was only the ONE Christian church in Europe up until the Reformation, and so if your Templars were refusing the Christian faith (no alternative to R.C.s until the Reformation), they were not true Templars. Gordon.
> On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 14:15:57 GMT, "Inger E Johansson" > <inger_e.johans...@notelia.com> wrote:
> >"Gordon Johnson" <gor...@kinhelp.co.uk> skrev i meddelandet > >news:3f91d41a.30499186@news.ifb.co.uk... > >> On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 01:40:00 GMT, "Heather" <fer...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >> >Thanks, Inger. I can also confirm that they exist in the US and Canada. > >> >But it seems that there are those that do not wish to believe this. > >> ** There is a BIG difference between "still exist" and "exist now". > >> The original order was dissolved. All the modern versions are later > >> introductions, aimed at reviving the Templar ideals. > >> Gordon.
> >Gordon, > >sorry having to correct you. Between 1309 and 1715(!) the Templars continued > >to exist in Scandinavia. Those years they today call 'the silent years', the > >years when they weren't allowed to work out in the open. Once during that > >period and also once later they have had an offer from the Papal Church that > >the Pope should withdraw the originial Ban. Since that also included that > >the Templars had to accept the Catholic Faith as the only true Christian the > >Templars refused. Today the Templars still has active members in Sweden, > >Norway, Denmark and Finland.
> >Inger E > ** As the Pope disbanded the organisation (which was a church > organisation), it was indeed disbanded. Any other organisation, or > group of former members, which continued to function outwith the > church was therefore NOT the original Order. Q.E.D. > There are, and have been for some time and in various places, orders > assuming the title, but that does not make them legitimate, nor can > they function as the original Order did. > There was only the ONE Christian church in Europe up until the > Reformation, and so if your Templars were refusing the Christian faith > (no alternative to R.C.s until the Reformation), they were not true > Templars.
They never refused Christian Faith they only refused the Pope and they weren't given an option until after the Reformation. They were and are true Templars.
> "Gordon Johnson" <gor...@kinhelp.co.uk> skrev i meddelandet > news:3f9330dd.24182448@news.ifb.co.uk... > > ** As the Pope disbanded the organisation (which was a church > > organisation), it was indeed disbanded. Any other organisation, or > > group of former members, which continued to function outwith the > > church was therefore NOT the original Order. Q.E.D. > > There are, and have been for some time and in various places, orders > > assuming the title, but that does not make them legitimate, nor can > > they function as the original Order did. > > There was only the ONE Christian church in Europe up until the > > Reformation, and so if your Templars were refusing the Christian faith > > (no alternative to R.C.s until the Reformation), they were not true > > Templars.
> They never refused Christian Faith they only refused the Pope and they > weren't given an option until after the Reformation. They were and are true > Templars.
I'm afraid Gordon's right. The Templars were essentially the Vatican army, with the Pope as Commander in Chief. When the Pope disbanded them, whether or not his behaviour was justified, groups survived in different countries and may have continued in their old ways, but saying that the Templars continued to exists is like saying that the Aztec army still exists long after they were disbanded. There may be New Templars around, and they may have been founded by members of the original Templars, but it's a different organisation (which doesn't make them wrong or bad, just different) - after all, they're not carrying out the functions of the original Templars are they? Mind you, that would set the cat among the pigeons, if the Vatican suddenly announced that they'd decided to revive their own army! Lesley Robertson
On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:14:53 +0200, "Lesley Robertson"
<l.a.robert...@tnw.tudelft.nl> wrote: >Mind you, that would set the cat among the pigeons, if the Vatican suddenly >announced that they'd decided to revive their own army!
Well, I imagine that the Swiss Guards would be quite put out.
>"Gordon Johnson" <gor...@kinhelp.co.uk> skrev i meddelandet >news:3f9330dd.24182448@news.ifb.co.uk... >> On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 14:15:57 GMT, "Inger E Johansson" >> <inger_e.johans...@notelia.com> wrote:
>> >"Gordon Johnson" <gor...@kinhelp.co.uk> skrev i meddelandet >> >news:3f91d41a.30499186@news.ifb.co.uk... >> >> On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 01:40:00 GMT, "Heather" <fer...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> >> >Thanks, Inger. I can also confirm that they exist in the US and >Canada. >> >> >But it seems that there are those that do not wish to believe this. >> >> ** There is a BIG difference between "still exist" and "exist now". >> >> The original order was dissolved. All the modern versions are later >> >> introductions, aimed at reviving the Templar ideals. >> >> Gordon.
>> >Gordon, >> >sorry having to correct you. Between 1309 and 1715(!) the Templars >continued >> >to exist in Scandinavia. Those years they today call 'the silent years', >the >> >years when they weren't allowed to work out in the open. Once during that >> >period and also once later they have had an offer from the Papal Church >that >> >the Pope should withdraw the originial Ban. Since that also included that >> >the Templars had to accept the Catholic Faith as the only true Christian >the >> >Templars refused. Today the Templars still has active members in Sweden, >> >Norway, Denmark and Finland.
>> >Inger E >> ** As the Pope disbanded the organisation (which was a church >> organisation), it was indeed disbanded. Any other organisation, or >> group of former members, which continued to function outwith the >> church was therefore NOT the original Order. Q.E.D. >> There are, and have been for some time and in various places, orders >> assuming the title, but that does not make them legitimate, nor can >> they function as the original Order did. >> There was only the ONE Christian church in Europe up until the >> Reformation, and so if your Templars were refusing the Christian faith >> (no alternative to R.C.s until the Reformation), they were not true >> Templars.
>They never refused Christian Faith they only refused the Pope and they >weren't given an option until after the Reformation. They were and are true >Templars.
>Inger E
*** " They never refused Christian Faith" ! - The only option pre-Reformation was the Catholic Church or nothing. There was NO alternative Christian Faith in Europe, back then. True Templars are those belonging to the Catholic church's Order, and that was disbanded by order of the Pope. Or do you have a different definition of the word "True"? Gordon.
> "Denis Beauregard" <n...@spam.com> a écrit dans le message de > news:u3buovc9f08vhtgkra5frnbvlsta0aq1f2@4ax.com... > > Le Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:28:41 +0100, Martin Harlow > > <mar...@freedonia.demon.co.uk> écrivait dans soc.genealogy.french:
> > >>>I thought the templars (templiers) were more or less all executed by > > >>>Philippe le Bel in the 13th century. Are we talking about other > templars? > > >>>I will go to Google and look at the WEB site given.
> > See: 13th century
> > >They were based in France iirc. Also remember that Philippe had the > > >Catholic church on his side (which allegedly owed lots of money to the > > >Templars) and there weren't too many places to hide from them. Though > > >Scotland and America are a couple of candidates, of course...
> > While it is quite possible someone knew about it, I am not sure > > America can be a candidate...
> > Maybe this take-over is one reason for the emergence of the Protestant > > churches a little later ?
> > Denis
> Bonsoir,
> N'y a-t-il pas un lien entre les templiers et les chevaliers de Malte ?
