Archive Storage
Keith Nuttle
certificates, genealogical papers, etc. I would also keep computer disk
(CD & DVD) of my genealogical research.
The safes I was looking at this morning were rated at 1500F for 30
minutes.
What do others do to store this type of information?
Would 1500F for 30 minutes be adequate for a CD or DVD?
Thank you
Denis Beauregard
<keith_...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in soc.genealogy.misc:
>The safes I was looking at this morning were rated at 1500F for 30
>minutes.
What is "F" in 1500F for 30 minutes ?
You mean the internal stored material will survive 30 minutes at
1500 F ?
I would rather use 2 separate places...
Denis
--
Denis Beauregard - g�n�alogiste �m�rite (FQSG)
Les Fran�ais d'Am�rique du Nord - www.francogene.com/genealogie--quebec/
French in North America before 1722 - www.francogene.com/quebec--genealogy/
Sur c�d�rom � 1775 - On CD-ROM to 1775
singhals
From what I heard when we were looking, the 1500F for 30
minutes is the time it takes the safe itself to melt.
However, since the temp inside the safe will rise, and paper
burns at about 451F and plastic melts LONG before that ...
Off-site duplicates (like send duplicate copies to a friend
or relative on the far side of the country) and copies in
your bank vault are probably easier and they for-sure weigh
less if you have to move. I use both off-site and my
safe-deposit box.
And don't forget to research whether the floor upon which
you intend to sit this fire-proof vault will bear the weight.
FWMOIW
Cheryl
Keith Nuttle
> On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 11:04:01 -0500, Keith Nuttle
> <keith_...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in soc.genealogy.misc:
>
>> The safes I was looking at this morning were rated at 1500F for 30
>> minutes.
>
> What is "F" in 1500F for 30 minutes ?
>
> You mean the internal stored material will survive 30 minutes at
> 1500 F ?
>
> I would rather use 2 separate places...
>
>
> Denis
>
in Fahrenheit, so that would be the temperature in Fahrenheit that the
safe can withstand for 30 minutes.
Bob Melson
Keith,
I have to second Cheryl's comments, with a strong recommendation that you
get your backup material and important originals off-site. The annual
cost of a safe-deposit box is relatively low-cost insurance. If you're
_really_ paranoid, you might want to investigate commercial data storage
firms like StoneMountain. Whatever you decide, though, GET THE STUFF
OFF-SITE!
Stung Ol' Bob
--
Robert G. Melson | Rio Grande MicroSolutions | El Paso, Texas
-----
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
Arthur C. Clarke's 3d Law
Wes Groleau
> I live in the US where we do not believe in centigrade, We only believe
> in Fahrenheit, so that would be the temperature in Fahrenheit that the
I live in USA, too. I confirm that we don't believe in Centigrade.
We do believe in Celsius, but most of us don't understand it.
--
Wes Groleau
An example of how important grammar points are deferred
http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/barrett?itemid=1560
Lesley Robertson
news:mailman.5.126417...@rootsweb.com...
Agreed. Even if all goes to plan, you can' be sure they'll get the
fire out in 15 mins. When one of our Faculty buildings caught fire
last year, it too 24 hours. Much was lost from rooms beneath the fire
because of water damage, as well. Then there's falling rubble. Some
books in metal cupboards did survive, but opinion seemed to be that
this was down to the postion of the cupboards relative to the fire.
I have important material from my laboratory archive in a fire safe
sitting on concrete, well above the cellars, but I also have scanned
copies on an external hard disc at home. I also have my personal stuff
on another external drive at work. And I've just had key family photos
printed in photo albums and gave them to my siblins and their kids.
Lesley Robertson
Keith Nuttle
> Keith Nuttle wrote:
>> I live in the US where we do not believe in centigrade, We only
>> believe in Fahrenheit, so that would be the temperature in Fahrenheit
>> that the
>
> I live in USA, too. I confirm that we don't believe in Centigrade.
>
> We do believe in Celsius, but most of us don't understand it.
>
ne...@jecarter.us
Is the "survival" temperature specification for paper documents or
plastic disks?
Paper ignites at 451F (read Ray Bradbury's book "Farenheit 451").
Plastic begins to deform at a much lower temperature.
A better choice might be to find a local bank that's above the 500
year flood plain in your area and put your items in a safe deposit box
there. Or research nearby media backup services. These people offer
a service where they will regularly pick up current media from you and
return older media (week, month, quarter, etc). Mmost large cities
have them - there's a service in Atlanta whose vaults are about 30
miles outside the city.
Or find other researchers who are interested in some common family
tree(s) and are located at least 100 miles away from you. Then make
an arrangement to provide "off-site backup" for each other.
Whatever method you choose, have more than one copy of everything,
have the copies geographically separated, and update the copies as new
information is added.
My immediate backups are on another PC and on a USB hard drive; my
distant backups are at the homes of my children (one 200 miles away,
the other 600+ miles away).
John
John
Don Kirkman
<hje0ki$h26$2...@news.eternal-september.org>:
>Keith Nuttle wrote:
>> I live in the US where we do not believe in centigrade, We only believe
>> in Fahrenheit, so that would be the temperature in Fahrenheit that the
>I live in USA, too. I confirm that we don't believe in Centigrade.
>We do believe in Celsius, but most of us don't understand it.
True - at least 5/9 of the population are bewildered by it.
--
Don
dons...@charter.net
Wes Groleau
> It seems to me I heard somewhere that Wes Groleau wrote in article
> True - at least 5/9 of the population are bewildered by it.
Could be worse--could be 9/5 + 32
--
Wes Groleau
Teacher Tip: Personalize Exercises
http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/russell?itemid=1474
Wes Groleau
It's really not that hard. If you know that
freezing is zero,
boiling is 100 and
99 is about 37,
you should be able to get at least a general idea...
Or you could move near the border and listen to Canadian radio,
and every time they state the temperature, say to yourself,
"So this is what 35 feels like."
Don Kirkman
>Don Kirkman wrote:
>> It seems to me I heard somewhere that Wes Groleau wrote in article
>>> We do believe in Celsius, but most of us don't understand it.
>> True - at least 5/9 of the population are bewildered by it.
>Could be worse--could be 9/5 + 32
Seems fahr worse.
--
Don
dons...@charter.net
singhals
> Keith Nuttle wrote:
>
>>I live in the US where we do not believe in centigrade, We only believe
>>in Fahrenheit, so that would be the temperature in Fahrenheit that the
>
>
> I live in USA, too. I confirm that we don't believe in Centigrade.
>
> We do believe in Celsius, but most of us don't understand it.
Please. Of /course/ we understand it -- it's just like F
once you make yourself believe 0=32.
;)
Cheryl
Kurt F
This thread has moved so far from the subject that I can�t resist the
temptation to add:
I zipped through a channel on my TV yesterday and got stuck for a short
while.
A woman was asked a $50000-question: How many meters are there in a
kilometer?
She answered 100 and lost.
When is the US joining the civilized world and going metric? :-)
Kurt F
Bob Melson
Not in your lifetime or mine. I know you know, but it's not just a matter
of distance measure or temperature - it's machine tools, it's threading on
screws and bolts, it's weights, it a whole helluva lot of things, large
and small, that affect daily life. It comes down, ultimately, to what
it'll cost and who'll pay for it. It was tried - half-heartedly - in the
70s and 80s and no doubt will be tried again. When it happens, and it
will, it won't be over night nor in just a couple of years, again because
it's so fundamental and so wide-reaching a change.
Swell Ol' Bob
Brian
<kurt.fre...@ieee.org> wrote:
to add:
>
>I zipped through a channel on my TV yesterday and got stuck for a short
>while.
>A woman was asked a $50000-question: How many meters are there in a
>kilometer?
>She answered 100 and lost.
>When is the US joining the civilized world and going metric? :-)
>
>Kurt F
>
There was an attempt in the 70's that failed. Gasoline was sold by
liters, highway signs showed miles and km. It was a miserable failure.
And I was quite happy about it although I am familiar with the metric
system.
Brian
wrote:
> From what I heard when we were looking, the 1500F for 30
>minutes is the time it takes the safe itself to melt.
>However, since the temp inside the safe will rise, and paper
>burns at about 451F and plastic melts LONG before that ...
>
>Off-site duplicates (like send duplicate copies to a friend
>or relative on the far side of the country) and copies in
>your bank vault are probably easier and they for-sure weigh
>less if you have to move. I use both off-site and my
>safe-deposit box.
>
>And don't forget to research whether the floor upon which
>you intend to sit this fire-proof vault will bear the weight.
>
>FWMOIW
>
>Cheryl
There is also the option of doing an online backup of the digital
material to a site like Mozy. There are a number of them.
The paper materials could be scanned.
singhals
As soon as 60% of the American public believes 0=32. Or,
possibly, as soon as 51% of American politicians come to
believe the American electorate isn't a collection of
idiots. IOW: don't hold your bhreath.
Cheryl
Kurt F
Bob Melson said it. I can fully understand that it is a matter of
generations before the US is using the metric system.
But I must admit that I was stunned that a person didn�t know the normal
prefixes:
Tera, Mega, kilo
and for parts of meters
Deci, centi, milli
But, of course, I live in a metric country, but thought these prefixes where
common knowledge or at least should be for people with, at least, 8 school
years.
Metric Kurt F
Percival P. Cassidy
>> This thread has moved so far from the subject that I can´t resist the
>> temptation to add:
>>
> Ah, but to really rankle the audience, start citing temps in degrees
> Rankine (Kelvin is too simple)
Don't forget Réaumur.
Perce
Brian
<kurt.fre...@ieee.org> wrote:
>Bob Melson said it. I can fully understand that it is a matter of
>generations before the US is using the metric system.
>
>But I must admit that I was stunned that a person didn�t know the normal
>prefixes:
>Tera, Mega, kilo
>and for parts of meters
>Deci, centi, milli
>
>But, of course, I live in a metric country, but thought these prefixes where
>common knowledge or at least should be for people with, at least, 8 school
>years.
>
>Metric Kurt F
>
I was taught them but then again, I went to elementary school a long
time ago before priorities changed.
Brian
wrote:
>As soon as 60% of the American public believes 0=32. Or,
>possibly, as soon as 51% of American politicians come to
>believe the American electorate isn't a collection of
>idiots. IOW: don't hold your bhreath.
>
>Cheryl
You are making unwarranted assumptions that because you think it would
be a good idea, those who disagree are idiots.
That unfortunately seems to be a common attitude in politics and one
that does not win converts to your cause.
Dr. Brian Leverich
Actually, right now in American politics there's a huge
correlation between a particular political bent and folks
who live in the moron-imbecile-idiot continuum.
The reason why it's worth pointing out that idiots are,
in fact, idiots is not to persuade the idiots.
The definition of an idiot is an untrainable individual.
The point is make sure the mushy middle doesn't confuse
noisy idiots for people who actually have something useful
to say.
America would be a better, if somewhat less civil, place
if people with brains and education pointed and laughed at
the follies of the idiots rather than treating their idiocy
as something that deserves "fair and balanced" attention.
Cheers, B.
Brian
<leve...@linkpendium.com> wrote:
>Actually, right now in American politics there's a huge
>correlation between a particular political bent and folks
>who live in the moron-imbecile-idiot continuum.
>
>The reason why it's worth pointing out that idiots are,
>in fact, idiots is not to persuade the idiots.
>
>The definition of an idiot is an untrainable individual.
>
>The point is make sure the mushy middle doesn't confuse
>noisy idiots for people who actually have something useful
>to say.
>
>America would be a better, if somewhat less civil, place
>if people with brains and education pointed and laughed at
>the follies of the idiots rather than treating their idiocy
>as something that deserves "fair and balanced" attention.
>
>Cheers, B.
It would be so much better, wouldn't it, if those who are liberal were
just completely in charge of the country and didn't have to worry
about those pesky stupid people who don't agree?
The cities where liberals are perpetually in power are such great
models for this utopian society. Doesn't Baltimore have one of the
best school systems in the country for example?
singhals
> On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 13:51:55 -0500, singhals <sing...@erols.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>>As soon as 60% of the American public believes 0=32. Or,
>>possibly, as soon as 51% of American politicians come to
>>believe the American electorate isn't a collection of
>>idiots. IOW: don't hold your bhreath.
>>
>>Cheryl
>
>
> You are making unwarranted assumptions that because you think it would
> be a good idea, those who disagree are idiots.
Speaking of unwarranted assumptions!!!
Don't hurt yourself leaping to conclusions, now, y'hear?
Cheryl
Wes Groleau
> soon as 51% of American politicians come to believe the American
> electorate isn't a collection of idiots.
On average, aren't we? After all, a majority of us elected _them_.
--
Wes Groleau
Why some kids act strange
http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/barrett?itemid=1491
Bob Melson
opined:
> singhals wrote:
>> soon as 51% of American politicians come to believe the American
>> electorate isn't a collection of idiots.
>
> On average, aren't we? After all, a majority of us elected _them_.
>
> --
> Wes Groleau
And it would appear that a goodly number are now suffering buyers' remorse.
It would be true, whichever party, but I think a lot of people are now
seeing that having one party so overwhelmingly in control of the "levers
of power" is not a good thing.
Stubborn Ol' Bob
Dr. Brian Leverich
> On Tuesday 26 January 2010 21:47, Wes Groleau (Grolea...@FreeShell.org)
> opined:
>
>> singhals wrote:
>>> soon as 51% of American politicians come to believe the American
>>> electorate isn't a collection of idiots.
>>
>> On average, aren't we? After all, a majority of us elected _them_.
>>
>> --
>> Wes Groleau
>
> And it would appear that a goodly number are now suffering buyers' remorse.
> It would be true, whichever party, but I think a lot of people are now
> seeing that having one party so overwhelmingly in control of the "levers
> of power" is not a good thing.
>
> Stubborn Ol' Bob
You bet. I would have never thought that 40 votes
could allow a thoroughly-discredited party to still
remain in effective control of the American government.
Democrats are such gutless losers -- stupid but
aggressive Republicans roll right over them.
Cheers, B.
Dr. Brian Leverich
You ever looked at educational achievement in liberal
bastions like Alabama?
You are an idiot. In the literal sense of the word.
###
Note that I'm a conservative, and don't have much use
for liberals.
But I really wish the stupid people would get their
Very Small Brains out of conservative politics.
Thank you for Iraq. Amazing all that WMD we found
and the al Qaeda links, eh?
Thank you for bank deregulation. That worked out
real good, didn't it?
Thank you for the $2 trillion tax giveaway to the rich.
It really is terrible how underpaid and overtaxed New
York bankers are.
Thank you for the prescription drug "benefit", which
helps subsidize those poor suffering pharmaceutical
companies.
And I loved how we inherited a balanced budget from a
Democrat and proceeded to run up record-breaking deficits.
The stupid -- it burns. - B
Bob Melson
(leve...@linkpendium.com) opined:
Brian,
I know you SAY elsewhere that you're a conservative, but your tone and your
comments certainly argue the contrary.
This is certainly NOT the place for a political discussion, and I
will "cease and desist" after this final comment: the one party currently
in control of the levers of powers is that whose symbol is the Jackass.
They can, because of their majorities - and Scott Brown's election really
makes little difference in the larger scheme of things - pass any
legislation they wish. But, because of the unpopularity of some of that
legislation and the underlying policies, the Dems are looking for the
cover of a bipartisanship they really don't believe in and have poisoned
over at least the past 15 or so years (at least since the '94 mid-terms
and the GOP "Contract with America"). Are the Dumbo-Jumbo Repubs innocent
victims? Of course not. They have, in fact, shown themselves unable to
govern and did little or nothing noteworthy while they had control of the
Congress - although that control was far less overwhelming than that the
Dems have at present.
What we have, sadly, is a government that doesn't listen, representatives
who don't represent, an establishment that we've permitted to become a
self-anointed aristocracy, where, as Ronald Reagan famously said, the most
terrifying phrase one can hear is "I'm from the government, and I'm here
to help." This isn't a new phenomenon and is not the exclusive fault of
either party - it's the fault of the electorate for allowing it to happen
at all, for not holding their elected officials to account.
Further deponent saith not.
Bob Melson
Dr. Brian Leverich
Bob -
I've been doing Republican campaigns since Goldwater,
and have been a speechwriter and policy analyst for a
number of Republican officeholders.
I have almost surely forgotten more than you've ever
learned about being a conservative and a Republican.
And I am *really* tired of there being a presumption
that being a drooling idiot is a required qualification
for being a conservative or a Republican.
Moreover, in view of the fact that the idiot wing of
the Party has pretty much managed to drive us into a
ditch, it's probably time to stop being tolerant of
idiots and to start pointing and laughing.
Love, B.
Bob Melson
(leve...@askin-17.linkpendium.com) opined:
One of the Johnny-come-lately's, eh? Been there, done that, got the
t-shirt, since Eisenhower days. Please, let's not indulge in upsmanship -
it's a losing battle on both sides. I may not - but then, again, I may -
be a Piled higher and Deeper, but I do take exception to being patronized.
>
> And I am *really* tired of there being a presumption
> that being a drooling idiot is a required qualification
> for being a conservative or a Republican.
Well, as what the liberal camp wants to style a knuckle-dragging,
mouth-breathing, Neanderthal, I'm more than a little tired of the
presumption that only _they_ know what's best for the rest of us. They've
proved time and again that that just isn't true and I'm constantly amazed
that people still buy into it. While it's true that the "press" has never
been particularly fair or unbiased, it's also true that today's MSM has
exceeded even those bounds and there's no doubt that that contributes to
the informed ignorance we see.
>
> Moreover, in view of the fact that the idiot wing of
> the Party has pretty much managed to drive us into a
> ditch, it's probably time to stop being tolerant of
> idiots and to start pointing and laughing.
The problem is, unfortunately, that what constitutes the idiot wing of the
party is very much a matter of definition. I can remember being very much
frightened by some of the Goldwater supporters I encountered, "back when",
folks who wouldn't - or couldn't - accept that there were alternate and
equally valid views of the issues of the day. Were _they_ the idiot wing
of their day? Dunno, but a strong case could be made that they were and
that they cost Goldwater the election. In today's climate, it's not so
much the individual politicians that are harmful but the one-issue
supporters that gather around them - the Jerry Falwells and Pat
Robertsons, if you will - who do the greatest damage. But are _they_ the
idiot wing? Again, dunno. Or is it the division between what some call
RINOs and "true" conservatives? If politics is the art of compromise,
doesn't that imply there must be some degree of moderation in the party's
approach? Or are the RINOs merely Jackasses in Elephant's clothing? You
tell me, and tell me, as well, which of _them_ is the idiot wing of he
GOP.
The sad fact of the matter is that, after 40-plus years in the wilderness,
when they had a chance to govern and govern well, the GOP showed
themselves incapable of doing so and demonstrated, as well, that they were
not much different from the Democrats. Who's to blame? The
party "leadership"? The one-issue interest groups? The "think tanks" and
policy mavens? The electorate? IMNSHO, all of 'em.
Maybe, because both major parties have so badly discredited themselves,
it's time for a real reform party to be created. But we said that in '92
and we said it in '64 and the same thing was no doubt said in the 20s and
30s and 40s. A new party would have to be fundamentally different from
the major parties and from the other, lesser parties now out there "in the
wild", different not only in what it says but in how it conducts itself
and in its relationship with the voters.
And all that leaves us exactly were we were when this conversation started.
>
> Love, B.
Denis Beauregard
<Nob...@NotMyISP.net> �crivait dans soc.genealogy.misc:
>Don't forget R�aumur.
I prefer R�aumur ! Degrees going doing as it is hotter !
Denis
Dr. Brian Leverich
I'm not patronizing you. I'm simply pointing out that I'm
more competent than you in this area. Deal with it.
If you have a problem with that, let's do indulge in
upmanship. Flop out your credentials, and I'll flop
out mine. ;)
>> And I am *really* tired of there being a presumption
>> that being a drooling idiot is a required qualification
>> for being a conservative or a Republican.
>
> Well, as what the liberal camp wants to style a knuckle-dragging,
> mouth-breathing, Neanderthal, I'm more than a little tired of the
> presumption that only _they_ know what's best for the rest of us. They've
> proved time and again that that just isn't true and I'm constantly amazed
> that people still buy into it. While it's true that the "press" has never
> been particularly fair or unbiased, it's also true that today's MSM has
> exceeded even those bounds and there's no doubt that that contributes to
> the informed ignorance we see.
I never much liked liberals for a variety of reasons.
They focus on the poor, the elderly, the ... While that's
all well and good, it misses the larger issue that what
overall economic progress (not trickle-down!) raises all
boats and that the first concern of any sane society should
be its children and productive workers.
They have no horsesense. People who are permanently poor are
usually in that state because they aint no good. Giving them
some money makes them people who aint no good with some money.
If libs really wanted to help the poor, educating the kids is
their best shot at it.
And they're gutless. They're smart enough to know teabaggers
are, almost to the last individual, a bunch of drooling idiots
and psychologically-disturbed nutcases, but far be it from a
liberal to point out the very, very obvious if it might possibly
cause the idiot or the nutcase some self-esteem issues.
>> Moreover, in view of the fact that the idiot wing of
>> the Party has pretty much managed to drive us into a
>> ditch, it's probably time to stop being tolerant of
>> idiots and to start pointing and laughing.
>
> The problem is, unfortunately, that what constitutes the idiot wing of the
> party is very much a matter of definition. I can remember being very much
> frightened by some of the Goldwater supporters I encountered, "back when",
> folks who wouldn't - or couldn't - accept that there were alternate and
> equally valid views of the issues of the day. Were _they_ the idiot wing
> of their day? Dunno, but a strong case could be made that they were and
> that they cost Goldwater the election. In today's climate, it's not so
> much the individual politicians that are harmful but the one-issue
> supporters that gather around them - the Jerry Falwells and Pat
> Robertsons, if you will - who do the greatest damage. But are _they_ the
> idiot wing? Again, dunno. Or is it the division between what some call
> RINOs and "true" conservatives? If politics is the art of compromise,
> doesn't that imply there must be some degree of moderation in the party's
> approach? Or are the RINOs merely Jackasses in Elephant's clothing? You
> tell me, and tell me, as well, which of _them_ is the idiot wing of he
> GOP.
I'm kinda uncomfortable with the whole "alternate and equally
valid" thing, because there only is one reality.
There weren't any WMD. The planet is getting warmer. Bank
deregulation is a bad idea. The universe is about 14 billion
years old. There's no "alternate and equally valid" bit to
any of those things.
There *are* different value systems: some folks are altruistic,
some are selfish, and maybe those value systems are alternate
and equally valid. (Though even there, Charlie Manson's value
system just can't be "alternate and equally valid" or I have
no idea what anything in life means ... )
Unfortunately, you hear a lot of people premising arguments on
things that are factually wrong, rather than just flopping out
"I'm concerned health care reform might affect my Medicare, and
I'm willing to have other people die of treatable illnesses to
avoid risking an impact on an entitlement I value."
> The sad fact of the matter is that, after 40-plus years in the wilderness,
> when they had a chance to govern and govern well, the GOP showed
> themselves incapable of doing so and demonstrated, as well, that they were
> not much different from the Democrats. Who's to blame? The
> party "leadership"? The one-issue interest groups? The "think tanks" and
> policy mavens? The electorate? IMNSHO, all of 'em.
>
> Maybe, because both major parties have so badly discredited themselves,
> it's time for a real reform party to be created. But we said that in '92
> and we said it in '64 and the same thing was no doubt said in the 20s and
> 30s and 40s. A new party would have to be fundamentally different from
> the major parties and from the other, lesser parties now out there "in the
> wild", different not only in what it says but in how it conducts itself
> and in its relationship with the voters.
>
> And all that leaves us exactly were we were when this conversation started.
I'm not sure a reform party is needed.
The Republican Party is a perfectly good vehicle, but the
idiot wing needs to wake up and realize they've been being
played for fools by the wealthy and the corporations.
Cheers, B.
Brian
<leve...@linkpendium.com> wrote:
I won't stoop to defining what you are. Bye.
Bob Melson
(leve...@linkpendium.com) opined:
QED Condemned out of your own mouth.
>
> If you have a problem with that, let's do indulge in
> upmanship. Flop out your credentials, and I'll flop
> out mine. ;)
>
Frankly, I like to think I'm bigger than that. If you want to indulge in
schoolyard behavior, I certainly can't stop you. You only make yourself
look small and petty by doing so. So, no, I won't play the mine is bigger
than yours game - I'll let you embarrass yourself.
Bob Melson
<snip>
Dr. Brian Leverich
> On Wednesday 27 January 2010 21:05, Dr. Brian Leverich
> (leve...@linkpendium.com) opined:
>> more competent than you in this area. Deal with it.
>
> QED Condemned out of your own mouth.
>
>>
>> If you have a problem with that, let's do indulge in
>> upmanship. Flop out your credentials, and I'll flop
>> out mine. ;)
>>
>
> Frankly, I like to think I'm bigger than that. If you want to indulge in
> schoolyard behavior, I certainly can't stop you. You only make yourself
> look small and petty by doing so. So, no, I won't play the mine is bigger
> than yours game - I'll let you embarrass yourself.
>
> Bob Melson
Bob, this is precisely what I dislike about the last 30
years of American politics.
There are actual differences between idiots and geniuses,
and between amateurs and professionals.
For a long time, we've had idiots and amateurs masquerading
as authorities simply because polite folks have been too
kind to point out that they're idiots and amateurs.
This has left us with a badly damaged country.
I, for one, won't do that any more. Don't impose on my
civility, because I've run out of willingness to play
doormat for bellicose idiots.
If you won't lay out your resume, you're a liar and a fraud.
Cheers, B.
Bob Melson
(leve...@askin-17.linkpendium.com) opined:
<snip>
Brian,
The last thing I want is to get into a pissing contest - with you or
anybody else. You may well have done what you've said you have - I don't
question that you have and would expect you to accept my word that I, too,
have worked in political campaigns, tho' perhaps not at the level you
evidently have and certainly not every time, since I've spent a large part
of my adult life outside the US, since the mid-50s. That doesn't make
your experience better than mine, it just makes it different. It doesn't
make your opinion more worthy than mine; again, it just makes it
different.
In order for there to be a civil discussion there must be some degree of
mutual respect, something that seems sadly lacking in your comments and
responses. And that's too bad, I think, since we seem largely in
agreement with respect to the issues under discussion. But you don't
score points by denigrating the other guy's opinion or calling him names.
You're certainly welcome to think what you will of me - there's little I
can do about it. But consider that by being patronizing, by indulging in
name calling, you only diminish yourself in the eyes of others. You've
done some wonderful things in the past, things for which you deserve
enormous credit and which I'm more than happy to acknowledge (yeah, yeah,
I know, big hearted Bob). I dare say, though, you put your pants on one
leg at a time like most of the rest of us, with all that says about
individual value.
Now, I've said my piece, you've said yours. It's time, I think, to back
off on both sides and let matters cool. Deal?
Bob Melson
Kurt F
Please let this thread be Archived in a safe storage and let us get back to
genealogy.
Respectfully Yours
Kurt F
Lesley Robertson
this tirade is entirely out of character for both of you. I can't
believe you need reminding that this is a worldwide genealogy group.
Could you please agree to differ?
Lesley Robertson
Dr. Brian Leverich
> (leve...@askin-17.linkpendium.com) opined:
>
><snip>
>
> Brian,
>
> The last thing I want is to get into a pissing contest - with you or
> anybody else. You may well have done what you've said you have - I don't
> question that you have and would expect you to accept my word that I, too,
> have worked in political campaigns, tho' perhaps not at the level you
> evidently have and certainly not every time, since I've spent a large part
> of my adult life outside the US, since the mid-50s. That doesn't make
> your experience better than mine, it just makes it different. It doesn't
> make your opinion more worthy than mine; again, it just makes it
> different.
Bob, actually it does make it more worthy.
You don't ask a plumber to remove a brain tumor.
There is a real, substantive difference between idiots
and amateurs and geniuses and professionals.
A big part of what's gone terribly wrong for the last
thirty years is that self-assured idiots have been driving
the place into the ground.
> In order for there to be a civil discussion there must be some degree of
> mutual respect, something that seems sadly lacking in your comments and
> responses. And that's too bad, I think, since we seem largely in
> agreement with respect to the issues under discussion. But you don't
> score points by denigrating the other guy's opinion or calling him names.
> You're certainly welcome to think what you will of me - there's little I
> can do about it. But consider that by being patronizing, by indulging in
> name calling, you only diminish yourself in the eyes of others. You've
> done some wonderful things in the past, things for which you deserve
> enormous credit and which I'm more than happy to acknowledge (yeah, yeah,
> I know, big hearted Bob). I dare say, though, you put your pants on one
> leg at a time like most of the rest of us, with all that says about
> individual value.
Fuck civility.
Teabaggers in town hall meetings were surely civil, eh?
For three decades I've watched literal idiots have vastly
undue sway on public policy because they trespassed on the
civility of brighter and better-trained people.
This is a rightwing asshole thing: the jerks on the right
have noticed that lefties tend to be gutless wonders, so
they bully them.
I won't put up with that any more.
Bob, I've forgotten more than you've ever learned about
public policy. Harvard and Stanford degrees in mathematics,
and a Ph.D. in public policy analysis from the best institution
on Earth do mean something.
You and I get precisely the same vote on Tuesdays, but do not
even begin to think that our understanding of public policy
matters are in any way equivalent.
They aren't.
> Now, I've said my piece, you've said yours. It's time, I think, to back
> off on both sides and let matters cool. Deal?
>
> Bob Melson
Why cool off?
How does it feel having someone share town hall civility
with you?
Love, B.
Bob Melson
(l.a.ro...@tnw.tudelft.nl) opined:
No argument here. This has gotten entirely out of hand and I apologize to
the group for my role in it. If Brian wants to continue, he may contact
me via my reply-to email address.
Bob
Brian
wrote:
>No argument here. This has gotten entirely out of hand and I apologize to
>the group for my role in it. If Brian wants to continue, he may contact
>me via my reply-to email address.
>
>Bob
No need to do that.
And it did get out of hand.
Dr. Brian Leverich
What I don't understand is why, when teabagging idiots
behave uncivilly, it's a groundswell of public opinion.
When anyone else dishes it out the same way, it's "out
of hand".
Get used to it. There's more coming.
Love, B.
Dr. Brian Leverich
In fact, thanks for providing a perfect example of what I'm on
about.
Melton, a guy with no obvious Republican chops except maybe he
once voted for one, tells Leverich, who has spent a fair chunk
of time campaigning and staffing for Republicans, that Leverich
is not a Republican.
Melton, a guy with no obvious training or experience in public
policy, tells Leverich, one of the best-trained and more experienced
public policy analysts on Earth, that Melton's understanding of
public policy is equivalent to mine.
Dunno about you, but most people would think that telling a retired
Marine that he's not really a Marine would be rude, and asserting
that you can do surgery like a neurosurgeon, is sufficiently stupid
(unless you're another neurosurgeon) that it's rude.
OK, so we have a rightwing idiot being rude, but that doesn't require
an apology.
And I'm catching flack, because the usually urbane and polite Dr. Leverich
is forcefully articulating that you are being stupid and rude.
Right.
Hypocritical idiots.
Get used to it, because I think the teabaggers have provoked their own
reaction and people aren't going to sit still for the stupidity and
onesided rudeness any more. I think we'll have some two-sided incivility
in the future.
Love, B.
Lesley Robertson
message news:slrnhme47j....@askin-17.linkpendium.com...
>
> OK, so we have a rightwing idiot being rude, but that doesn't
> require
> an apology.
I didn't ask for apologies, I just asked you guys to rmember where you
are, and agree to differ.
> Hypocritical idiots.
Thank you.
> Get used to it, because I think the teabaggers have provoked their
> own
> reaction and people aren't going to sit still for the stupidity and
> onesided rudeness any more. I think we'll have some two-sided
> incivility
> in the future.
That puts me in my place.
Lesley Robertson