> My great-grandfather had a sister who married a man named  Emile
> L______ (1879-1949).

> Emile had a brother, P. P. L_____________ (1878 - 1944).  PP never
> married, however, he had a common-law wife who was black.  Together
> they had several children -- I have heard 8, 9, and 11.

> The common-law wife used her own name.  However, in the mid-1950's she
> and the children started using the father's last name, L________ --
> much to the embarassment of the white side of the family.

> Now, it's well-known that a lot of Southern men had "shadow families"
> - a mixed-race child or children whose mothers usually were family
> servants.  However, it was -- and in some quarters, still is -- one of
> those things that no one talked about.

> I am trying to find the black woman.  I know her last name and where
> she and the children lived approx 1920 - 1950.  I have searched for
> her under her name and under the L______ name -- no luck in census or
> FindAGrave, although I did find PP's grave.  According to his great
> niece, he never had a "real family."

> Any suggestions?

>> My great-grandfather had a sister who married a man named  Emile
>> L______ (1879-1949).

>> Emile had a brother, P. P. L_____________ (1878 - 1944).  PP never
>> married, however, he had a common-law wife who was black.  Together
>> they had several children -- I have heard 8, 9, and 11.

>> The common-law wife used her own name.  However, in the mid-1950's she
>> and the children started using the father's last name, L________ --
>> much to the embarassment of the white side of the family.

>> Now, it's well-known that a lot of Southern men had "shadow families"
>> - a mixed-race child or children whose mothers usually were family
>> servants.  However, it was -- and in some quarters, still is -- one of
>> those things that no one talked about.

>> I am trying to find the black woman.  I know her last name and where
>> she and the children lived approx 1920 - 1950.  I have searched for
>> her under her name and under the L______ name -- no luck in census or
>> FindAGrave, although I did find PP's grave.  According to his great
>> niece, he never had a "real family."

>> Any suggestions?

>Try the other grave sites; some have things the others
>don't.  Being honest, though, I don't see a whole lot of
>"traditionally black" cemeteries on any of 'em.  The two I
>know about specifically aren't there.

>Run the F-a-G search with ONLY her given and surnames unless
>she's got a last name that is dirt-common in that corner of
>Mississippi.  Run the search with born "bef" and then again
>with born "aft".

>If the L___ is for what I think it is, touch base with their
>family association.

>Mississippi State Archives /used/ to have a rather
>magnificent collection of out-dated phone books.  If you're
>not in driving distance, look for someone who is.

>Use the county GenWeb site and tap into the FPOC
>connections.  Someone's already suggested the black
>churches, you might also check the black newspapers for
>obits or marriages.

>And, finally, what specifically do you mean by "Black"? You
>mean, had 8 non-white great-grandparents, or do you mean,
>"was officially non-white"?  MIGHT matter to where she went.
>(Could she or her children be passing, in other words.)

>Cheryl

>>Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names wrote:
>>> All this took place in SW Mississippi.

>>> My great-grandfather had a sister who married a man named  Emile
>>> L______ (1879-1949).

>>> Emile had a brother, P. P. L_____________ (1878 - 1944).  PP never
>>> married, however, he had a common-law wife who was black.  Together
>>> they had several children -- I have heard 8, 9, and 11.

>>> The common-law wife used her own name.  However, in the mid-1950's she
>>> and the children started using the father's last name, L________ --
>>> much to the embarassment of the white side of the family.

>>> Now, it's well-known that a lot of Southern men had "shadow families"
>>> - a mixed-race child or children whose mothers usually were family
>>> servants.  However, it was -- and in some quarters, still is -- one of
>>> those things that no one talked about.

>>> I am trying to find the black woman.  I know her last name and where
>>> she and the children lived approx 1920 - 1950.  I have searched for
>>> her under her name and under the L______ name -- no luck in census or
>>> FindAGrave, although I did find PP's grave.  According to his great
>>> niece, he never had a "real family."

>>> Any suggestions?

>>Try the other grave sites; some have things the others
>>don't.  Being honest, though, I don't see a whole lot of
>>"traditionally black" cemeteries on any of 'em.  The two I
>>know about specifically aren't there.

>>Run the F-a-G search with ONLY her given and surnames unless
>>she's got a last name that is dirt-common in that corner of
>>Mississippi.  Run the search with born "bef" and then again
>>with born "aft".

>>If the L___ is for what I think it is, touch base with their
>>family association.

>>Mississippi State Archives /used/ to have a rather
>>magnificent collection of out-dated phone books.  If you're
>>not in driving distance, look for someone who is.

>>Use the county GenWeb site and tap into the FPOC
>>connections.  Someone's already suggested the black
>>churches, you might also check the black newspapers for
>>obits or marriages.

>>And, finally, what specifically do you mean by "Black"? You
>>mean, had 8 non-white great-grandparents, or do you mean,
>>"was officially non-white"?  MIGHT matter to where she went.
>>(Could she or her children be passing, in other words.)

>>Cheryl

> Thanks -- you've given me a lot of valuable tips.

> By "black" I mean really, really African-American.  She was black --
> not "mullato," not "high-yellow," and not "passing."

> I have since discovered that he was a big landowner in two counties.

> My father was a high school coach and later principal in the county.
> The county's black school superintendent had a son with whom I
> maintain contact -- I'll ask him about this matter.

> Thanks.

>> On Tue, 27 Mar 2012 14:01:07 -0400, singhals <singh...@erols.com>
>> wrote:

>>>Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names wrote:
>>>> All this took place in SW Mississippi.

>>>> My great-grandfather had a sister who married a man named  Emile
>>>> L______ (1879-1949).

>>>> Emile had a brother, P. P. L_____________ (1878 - 1944).  PP never
>>>> married, however, he had a common-law wife who was black.  Together
>>>> they had several children -- I have heard 8, 9, and 11.

>>>> The common-law wife used her own name.  However, in the mid-1950's she
>>>> and the children started using the father's last name, L________ --
>>>> much to the embarassment of the white side of the family.

>>>> Now, it's well-known that a lot of Southern men had "shadow families"
>>>> - a mixed-race child or children whose mothers usually were family
>>>> servants.  However, it was -- and in some quarters, still is -- one of
>>>> those things that no one talked about.

>>>> I am trying to find the black woman.  I know her last name and where
>>>> she and the children lived approx 1920 - 1950.  I have searched for
>>>> her under her name and under the L______ name -- no luck in census or
>>>> FindAGrave, although I did find PP's grave.  According to his great
>>>> niece, he never had a "real family."

>>>> Any suggestions?

>>>Try the other grave sites; some have things the others
>>>don't.  Being honest, though, I don't see a whole lot of
>>>"traditionally black" cemeteries on any of 'em.  The two I
>>>know about specifically aren't there.

>>>Run the F-a-G search with ONLY her given and surnames unless
>>>she's got a last name that is dirt-common in that corner of
>>>Mississippi.  Run the search with born "bef" and then again
>>>with born "aft".

>>>If the L___ is for what I think it is, touch base with their
>>>family association.

>>>Mississippi State Archives /used/ to have a rather
>>>magnificent collection of out-dated phone books.  If you're
>>>not in driving distance, look for someone who is.

>>>Use the county GenWeb site and tap into the FPOC
>>>connections.  Someone's already suggested the black
>>>churches, you might also check the black newspapers for
>>>obits or marriages.

>>>And, finally, what specifically do you mean by "Black"? You
>>>mean, had 8 non-white great-grandparents, or do you mean,
>>>"was officially non-white"?  MIGHT matter to where she went.
>>>(Could she or her children be passing, in other words.)

>>>Cheryl

>> Thanks -- you've given me a lot of valuable tips.

>> By "black" I mean really, really African-American.  She was black --
>> not "mullato," not "high-yellow," and not "passing."

>> I have since discovered that he was a big landowner in two counties.

>> My father was a high school coach and later principal in the county.
>> The county's black school superintendent had a son with whom I
>> maintain contact -- I'll ask him about this matter.

>> Thanks.
>At the risk of being simplistic by stating the obvious, have you checked
>the state birth records for the kids?  Or, alternatively, the county
>records?  Either under the mother's name or, as you put it, "L______"?
>Even if the births were midwife attended, there ought to be a record.
>I think you're likely to have better luck with the state records than with
>the county, but those are both stones that need turning.

>Swampy Ol' Bob

> However -- this is MISSISSIPPI.  As much as I am proud of my

> I'll check the state records.  They started recording births in 1913
> -- I thnk that's correct -- and these births were after about 1930.

> I have since located cemetery and obituary information.

> Thanks again.