Berry family crest
VALERIE ORTON
in papers dating around the 1800's to a family crest. The crest is in the
form of a bird with a branch in its mouth.to be the .
So far I have been unable to come
across any information and wonder if anyone cane give me any information
about this crest? I only have a black and white outline which for some
reason I am unable to email
Philip Orton
Stuart Thomson
<VALERI...@ukgateway.net> writes
If you have no luck try alt.heraldry.sca and rec.heraldry
--
Stuart Thomson
at Christchurch Dorset
where two rivers meet
Foothills
Merchant Marines durning WW I?
IvorM
'his and hers' family crest from House of Heraldry. Whilst I would not put
too much trust in the result, the Berry crest that we were provided with has
a shield comprising a white background with a blue horizontal strip across
the middle. On this stripe there are 3 gold fleur de lys. In the lower
section is a gold lion lying down and in the upper section crossed branches.
The whole of the background has bird footprints on it. Above the shield is
a bird with spread wings surrounding a crown. Somewhere I have the proper
description of it using heraldic terms, but I can't put my hand on it at
present and I can't remember them properly.
The bird does not have a branch in its mouth, but at least the elements are
there. The motto is 'per ardua'
IvorM
VALERIE ORTON <VALERI...@ukgateway.net> wrote in message
news:87q6cp$727$2...@lure.pipex.net...
John Clare
include "a barberry branch fructed proper" he gives his source as Papworth.
If the blue strip is about 1/2 of the shiels, it is a Fess. The birds
footprints are probably a "fur", my guess is ermine.
John Clare
"IvorM" <imor...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:87sep6$2ob$3...@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
Barney Tyrwhitt-Drake
>in papers dating around the 1800's to a family crest. The crest is in the
>form of a bird with a branch in its mouth.to be the .
> So far I have been unable to come
>across any information and wonder if anyone cane give me any information
>about this crest? I only have a black and white outline which for some
>reason I am unable to email
>
Britain and Ireland) does not list such a crest for any part of the
BERRY family, or variants on that name. It could be that someone in the
family just borrowed it and used it.
--
Barney Tyrwhitt-Drake
Drake Software web site: http://www.tdrake.demon.co.uk
Neil C. Thomsen
Foothills wrote:
> Does anyone out there know how I can find out if a Great Uncle was in
> Merchant Marines durning WW I?
Canadian, American, British, Norwegian, Danish, Dutch, French?
--
---------------------------------------
The Rev. Neil C. Thomsen™
Cambridge, ON
Tim Powys-Lybbe
"IvorM" <imor...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> My wife's family were called Berry and when we were married, we obtained a
> 'his and hers' family crest from House of Heraldry. Whilst I would not put
> too much trust in the result, the Berry crest that we were provided with has
> a shield comprising a white background with a blue horizontal strip across
> the middle. On this stripe there are 3 gold fleur de lys. In the lower
> section is a gold lion lying down and in the upper section crossed branches.
> The whole of the background has bird footprints on it. Above the shield is
> a bird with spread wings surrounding a crown. Somewhere I have the proper
> description of it using heraldic terms, but I can't put my hand on it at
> present and I can't remember them properly.
>
> The bird does not have a branch in its mouth, but at least the elements are
> there. The motto is 'per ardua'
>
> IvorM
>
>
> VALERIE ORTON <VALERI...@ukgateway.net> wrote in message
> news:87q6cp$727$2...@lure.pipex.net...
> > I am researching my family's history ,Berry, and have come across
> reference
> > in papers dating around the 1800's to a family crest. The crest is in the
> > form of a bird with a branch in its mouth.to be the .
> > So far I have been unable to come
> > across any information and wonder if anyone cane give me any information
> > about this crest? I only have a black and white outline which for some
> > reason I am unable to email
> >
> > Philip Orton
> >
In my ancient 1842 version of Burke's Armory, there are 10 separate
entries for BERRY plus one for BERRIE. Only two of them are the same.
Which Berry family might yours be?
--
Tim Powys-Lybbe t...@southfrm.demon.co.uk
For a patchwork of bygones: www.southfrm.demon.co.uk
Merritt Mullen
>
> Does anyone out there know how I can find out if a Great Uncle was in
Not sure which country you are talking about, but if it is the USA, it is
important to remember that the "Merchant Marine" is not a military or
federal "service" like the Army, Navy, Coast Guard, etc. A person in
merchant marine is simply an employee of a private steamship company and
records of his employment would be kept by that company, not the government.
If the individual is an officer (as opposed to an ordinary seaman), he will
be licensed by the US Coast Guard. I believe the National Archives keeps
records of licensed officers, but I am told the only information they have
is the name and license number of the individual.
You might try getting the individual's draft registration card for WW I. It
would probably indicate if he were in the merchant marine, as individuals in
the merchant marine were generally exempt from the draft. WW I draft
registration cards are available on microfilm through your local LDS Family
History Center (but you must know the location where he registered).
Merritt
Eve McLaughlin
>>I am researching my family's history ,Berry, and have come across reference
>>in papers dating around the 1800's to a family crest. The crest is in the
>>form of a bird with a branch in its mouth.to be the .
>> So far I have been unable to come
>>across any information and wonder if anyone cane give me any information
>>about this crest? I only have a black and white outline which for some
>>reason I am unable to email
>>
>Britain and Ireland) does not list such a crest for any part of the
>BERRY family, or variants on that name. It could be that someone in the
>family just borrowed it and used it.
Thomson, maybe, (large bird, small spray) or if wqith acorn, half a
dozen assorted,
or (average bird, large spray) Apsey, Elliot, Puget, Shand
--
Eve McLaughlin
Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians
Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society
IvorM
far back yet - concentrating on Morrish line.
At present, I would say that the Berry side is based very much in and around
Exeter/mid-Devon. As I said, I don't know that I would place too much
credence in the arms that we have been given, but it makes a good
decoration.
IvorM
Tim Powys-Lybbe <t...@southfrm.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:f65dde8...@southfrm.demon.co.uk...
> > > I am researching my family's history ,Berry, and have come across
> > reference
> > > in papers dating around the 1800's to a family crest. The crest is in
the
> > > form of a bird with a branch in its mouth.to be the .
> > > So far I have been unable to come
> > > across any information and wonder if anyone cane give me any
information
> > > about this crest? I only have a black and white outline which for
some
> > > reason I am unable to email
> > >
Joe Matthews
and tell me if there is a crest that goes with that?
Would appreciate it.
--
Joe Matthews
Gibsons, BC
Canada
"Eve McLaughlin" <e...@varneys.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:jYGyO6Ge...@varneys.demon.co.uk...
> >>
> >Fairbairn's Crests (the most complete list of authorised crests for
> >Britain and Ireland) does not list such a crest for any part of the
> >BERRY family, or variants on that name. It could be that someone in the
> >family just borrowed it and used it.
>
John Clare
Berry arms. The twigs are emblazoned as Argent a barberry branch fructed
proper. The Bird footprints are a fur, probably ermine. The motto is By
effort or struggle, like the RAF Per ardua ad astra.
Hope this helps
John Clare
Elizabeth VandenBerg
crests.
http://www.sog.org.uk/leaflets/arms.htm
And about Burke's:
http://www.baronage.co.uk/bphtm-01/essay-7.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Elizabeth Wilson VandenBerg
<evand...@mindspring.com>
Tim Powys-Lybbe
"John Clare" <John....@ukgateway.net> wrote:
Indeed (in reply to John Clare's note at the top) Fox-Davies on page 265
of the 1954 edition of the Complete Guide to Heraldry writes "Papworth
assigns 'Argent, a barberry branch fructed proper' to Berry". This
appears to be in a discussion of fruit used on coats of arms; I can see
no reference to any crest.
In Burke's Armory, one of the Berry arms listed is exactly this. But
there are several other Berry arms listed, quite different.
The arms quoted above by The House of Heraldry are virtually those
listed in Burke as:
BERRY (Catton, co Norfolk, extinct bart created 14 Nov 1806), Ermine, on
a fess engrailed azure, three fleurs-de-lys or, in chief two branches of
palm in saltire vert; in base a sphinx couchant proper. Crest: Between
two wings elevated ermine an eagle's head couped at the eck proper
gorged with an eastern crown or, in the beak a palm branch vert. Motto:
Per ardua.
Fascinating, it looks like The House of Heraldry used the arms of a
family that had died out and modified them slightly on the basis that
no-one was there to complain! Sounds a nice little earner.
IvorM
This is an exact description of the one we have.
IvorM
Tim Powys-Lybbe <t...@southfrm.demon.co.uk> wrote in message >
R. E. Wicker
thought about Crests. How does one go about finding out if there is a
Crest for your Berry?
Rhoda Elleen Berry Wicker
rewi...@worldnet.att.net
http://home.att.net/~rewicker
http://home.att.net/~wickerworks
On Wed, 1 Mar 2000 22:32:49 -0000, "John Clare"
<John....@ukgateway.net> wrote:
>I can't help with it all, but the Complete Guide to Heraldry discusses the
>Berry arms. The twigs are emblazoned as Argent a barberry branch fructed
>proper. The Bird footprints are a fur, probably ermine. The motto is By
>effort or struggle, like the RAF Per ardua ad astra.
>Hope this helps
>John Clare
>"Tim Powys-Lybbe" <t...@southfrm.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
Tim Powys-Lybbe
REWi...@att.net (R. E. Wicker) wrote:
> Well this is all very interesting to me as I too am a Berry. I hadn't
> thought about Crests. How does one go about finding out if there is a
> Crest for your Berry?
>
>
The answer to Rhoda Elleen Berry Wicker's question is that there may not
be a crest for her Berry. What she has to do is to find what Berrys she
is descended from and then establish if any of them are those who had a
coat of arms.
If there are none with a coat of arms, then if she wants to have a coat
of arms, she should design her own.
She could even take a leaf out of my great-great-grandfather's book who
got the College of Arms to certify that his coat of arms had never been
certified by the College, thereby establishing that it was indeed his
and that no bribes had been paid to a herald to give any official coat
of arms. :-)
James Dempster
wrote:
>Well this is all very interesting to me as I too am a Berry. I hadn't
>thought about Crests. How does one go about finding out if there is a
>Crest for your Berry?
>
The rec.heraldry MFAQ and FAQ will answer this in more detail. They
can be found at www.heraldica.org.
In short - (assuming that your Berrys are of English descent) you need
to prove descent from a Berry with legally granted arms.
In England there is no definitive list of such things except at the
College of Arms who will charge one (and a leg). Fox-Davies "Armorial
Families" is pretty accurate (especially the 6th and 7th editions)
since he winnowed out the more dubious claims as he went along.
Burke's "General Armory" is broader, but not completely accurate.
The English rules are that all descendants in the male line of the
person to whom they were granted have the right to use the arms. They
should use differencing, but this is not enforced. Women who are
daughters of a descendant in the male line can use the arms for their
lifetime, but cannot pass them on to their children unless they are an
"heraldic heiress". How such a person is defined is rather complex.
Even then, they can only pass on a quartering of their paternal arms
if their husband is armigerous.
If your ancestors are Scottish then there is both an official list
(the Lyon Register) and a less nebulous procedure. The Lyon Register
has been published up to 1973 - look for Balfour-Paul's "Ordinary of
Scottish Arms".
The Scottish rules are that only the direct heir of the grantee can
bear the arms, all junior branches must rematriculate the arms with
appropriate differencing. Women can work on the "English" system as
far as bearing and inheritance is concerned, but they can also apply
(like their brothers) for a rematriculation of differenced arms which
they can pass to their children (with appropriate differences) whether
or not their husband is armigerous. If, however, the father is
non-armigerous and the children wish to use their mother's coat of
arms, they must take their mother's surname.
There is every likelihood that you will discover that you do not have
an armigerous ancestor. However even then, if you want to, you can
apply for a new grant. This is the only legal way to go in Scotland
(where the law is strict and is enforced) and is the proper way in
other countries which have heraldic authorities (Canada, England,
Ireland, South Africa, Spain and Zimbabwe if memory serves). This can
cost several thousand pounds sterling.
If you are in the US, there is nothing to stop you from designing your
own arms. The regulars on rec.heraldry are always happy to help with
that, and would be able to guide you through the process of producing
something which works heraldically and (hopefully) doesn't usurp the
arms of someone else. However, they do get tetchy with questions on
the "X family arms", which is why the MFAQ exists.
James
James Dempster (jdem...@easynet.co.uk)
You know you've had a good night
when you wake up
and someone's outlining you in chalk.