A question re: DNA testing
Bob Melson
I've toyed with the idea of doing DNA testing in hopes of obtaining
information that'd help break through my paternal-line brickwall.
It seems to me, though, that DNA results are ambiguous at best -
they can tell when you share a common ancestor with another person
but can't tell you even so much/little as the generation - you
merely identify another person in the male line of descent from the
ur-grandfather. I don't see that kind of result as justifying the
testing fees.
OK, those are MY negatives. I understand the mechanism, I think,
and see the drawbacks and seriously wonder whether the cost is
justified. There's bound to be somebody out there, though, who has
a success story, and that's what I'm looking for.
Anybody? You signed up, paid the (exorbitant) fee, got the results
and made a significant breakthrough you would not otherwise have
made.
I don't want recommendations for Service A vs Service B - if that's
what you have to offer, don't bother replying.
I'm not looking for an argument about affordability - that's an
individual thing and is also of no interest.
I AM interested in your success stories - years of searching without
result, did the DNA bit, got the guy with the ancestor in common
and, voila!, the wall came tumbling down!
As you can tell, I'm not convinced DNA testing is the answer to
"every maiden's prayer", but I'm willing to be convinced.
Help?
Thanks,
Surly Ol' Bob
--
Robert G. Melson | Rio Grande MicroSolutions | El Paso, Texas
-----
A government big enough to give you everything you want is big
enough to take away everything you have. Thomas Jefferson
Bob Melson <amia...@mypacks.net>
JYoun...@aol.com
> I AM interested in your success stories - years of searching
> without result, did the DNA bit, got the guy with the ancestor in
> common and, voila!, the wall came tumbling down!
>
> As you can tell, I'm not convinced DNA testing is the answer to
> "every maiden's prayer", but I'm willing to be convinced.
>
Bob-
I kind of felt as you do for a long time in that being a female I
was limited to mtDNA testing and I wasn't sure how much that would
tell me as my backward paper trail for my "tail female" line ends
when the family came over from Northern Ireland about 1852. So I
was unlikely to find a "match" through that means alone. Y-DNA for
males is a bit better if you can connect on a surname basis with
others who both know they "tail male" line through standard
research and have been tested.
In either case, you are only learning (if anything) one tiny portion
of your ancestry and ethnicity if you didn't know that information
through research.
I chose to be tested with 23andme (not promoting one company over
another just promoting the "entire genome" testing vs. Y or mtDNA
testing alone) and, while I haven't made any earth-shattering
connections, I have found a few people with whom I share
"half-identical" strips in autosomal DNA. This is intriguing in that
it proves a common ancestor SOMEWHERE back in time. Autosomal DNA
is a puzzle in that you can't tell WHERE in your ancestry (without
being able to compare notes and locate the connection) the common
ancestor is found.
I also received information about genetic mutations and traits I've
inherited from ALL sides of my family heritage that is helpful from
both a medical and genealogical prospective. For me, it was
worthwhile and I'm still sharing and comparing data as well as
looking for other mtDNA haplogroup H3a "cousins" out there. That is
one other benefit of the entire genome testing--they give you more
in-depth information about the sub clades that most of the
genealogy only testing companies do--although more are starting to
offer deep clade testing.
Joan
Charlie Hoffpauir
> I've toyed with the idea of doing DNA testing in hopes of obtaining
> information that'd help break through my paternal-line brickwall.
> It seems to me, though, that DNA results are ambiguous at best -
> they can tell when you share a common ancestor with another person
> but can't tell you even so much/little as the generation - you
> merely identify another person in the male line of descent from the
> ur-grandfather. I don't see that kind of result as justifying the
> testing fees.
>
> OK, those are MY negatives. I understand the mechanism, I think,
> and see the drawbacks and seriously wonder whether the cost is
> justified. There's bound to be somebody out there, though, who has
> a success story, and that's what I'm looking for.
>
> Anybody? You signed up, paid the (exorbitant) fee, got the results
> and made a significant breakthrough you would not otherwise have
> made.
>
> I don't want recommendations for Service A vs Service B - if that's
> what you have to offer, don't bother replying.
>
> I'm not looking for an argument about affordability - that's an
> individual thing and is also of no interest.
>
> I AM interested in your success stories - years of searching without
> result, did the DNA bit, got the guy with the ancestor in common
> and, voila!, the wall came tumbling down!
>
> As you can tell, I'm not convinced DNA testing is the answer to
> "every maiden's prayer", but I'm willing to be convinced.
>
Bob,
First, I think you are right.... DNA testing is very likely NOT to
result in any breakthroughs in your genealogy, so I don't recommend
you participate for that reason.
I do have a small Hoffpauir family DNA group, and we participate for
a different reason.... to try to find out if our earliest (known)
ancestor "shares" DNA with others (other than his known descendants,
ie the Hoffpauir family).
Our ancestor Thomas has been found to use at least 4 different
surnames (or different spellings) and so we hope to find "cousins"
who share his DMA markers, but have different surnames, in hoping
that some of them might lead us to ID Thomas' ancestry.
So far the only common DNA found is with known descendants of
Thomas. But then, we didn't really expect "quick" results, but
rather wanted to have the Hoffpauir DNA on record for future
researchers.
... and in general the testing is cheaper if you participate as a
part of a "group".
Charlie Hoffpauir <inv...@invalid.com>
Wes Groleau
> I've toyed with the idea of doing DNA testing in hopes of obtaining
> information that'd help break through my paternal-line brickwall.
> It seems to me, though, that DNA results are ambiguous at best -
> they can tell when you share a common ancestor with another person
> but can't tell you even so much/little as the generation - you
> merely identify another person in the male line of descent from the
> ur-grandfather. I don't see that kind of result as justifying the
> testing fees.
>
I've recently seen ads for $79. Haven't clicked on them. Even
that's too much for me at the moment. But it seems that if a lot of
other people with the same surname have done it, then you might get
the information that you share a common paternal ancestor with a lot
of them. Which might identify those that are common to all of them,
in turn identifying one or more you also have.
Plus, some of them might have evidence that you were unable to get.
--
Wes Groleau
Wes Groleau <grolea...@freeshell.org>
ne...@jecarter.us
I don't (yet) have a success story, but I'm aware that DNA testing
can place you in a specific line of descent. There's a combined DNA
research effort on my family name, so I can get a discount on the
testing cost by providing even a limited family tree ($150 versus
$250). I think it will be worth the effort, as no one in our branch
did any research until about 20 years ago - way too late to ask the
people who knew more than a couple of generations back. Information
back to my GGG-grandfather is possibly correct, but beyond that it's
pure guesswork - sharecroppers rarely showed up in the newspaper and
didn't have enough of an "estate" to need a will...
My DNA test didn't happen this year but I'm confident it will put me
in the right line when it happens. (An old retired guy with rods
and plates in his back deems it wise to pay someone else to replace
siding on the upper level and paint from the top of a 30 foot ladder
;-) Maybe next year.
John
Huntersglenn
Bob,
You're quite right in that the Y-DNA testing (and even the mtDNA
testing) is not a magic bullet that will give you answers that
you've been looking for. At best, it can make a great break-through
for you. At worst, it could show that you're really not a Melson,
but in actuality, you're a Jones. So, if you're not prepared for
the possibility that one of your female ancestors might not have
been faithful in her marriage, or that she fooled around before
getting married and it was a big secret and never told to anyone,
then don't go this route. But, if you're willing to be open-minded
about the possible results, then it's worth pursuing.
A few years back, my husband and I decided to invest our tax refund
money on DNA testing. We paid for his father to have full mtDNA
testing as well as the 67 marker test. We paid for my mother-in-law
to have the mt-DNA testing, and one of my uncles volunteered to be
the testee for both Y-DNA and mtDNA, so my grandmother's line and
grandfather's line were both covered.
The results were good, but not really what you'd call break-through
results.
For my father-in-law, there had long been a family story that he had
an ancestor, living in Pike County, KY, who got tired of the whole
Hatfield and McCoy feud. This man, who was a McCoy, was in love
with a Roberts girl, and when they married, he took her name.
Nice story, but in reality, probably not viable. The part of Pike
County where he supposedly lived is one of those places where
everybody knows you, and simple changing your name would not get you
out of the feud. There was also the fact that we couldn't find a
marriage record for the mother, nor did she appear as a widow or
married on any census post the birth of her son. However, it's been
my experience that most family lore has some basis in fact, so we
were curious as to what would be the results of the Y-DNA test.
We were quite pleased to find confirmation of the McCoy father when
my father-in-law matched exactly at 67 markers with a McCoy male who
was born in Pike County. While that didn't give us a name for the
McCoy father, it did confirm the story that Richard Roberts was
fathered by a McCoy male. A bit later, we found Richard's death
certificate online, and in the field for his father's name, it read
"Jack McCoy". Still haven't found a Jack McCoy in the county at the
same time that Richard would have been conceived, but there are
several John McCoys there, so the field is a bit narrower than it
was before (and we keep in mind that whoever filled out the death
certificate had no idea of the man's name, and guessed it was Jack).
On my side of the family, my uncle matches exactly at the 67 markers
with another male Phelps. Again, we don't have the name of the
common ancestor, but we've now got it narrowed down, based on his
research and ours, as to when that common ancestor might have lived.
My uncle has also matched at lower markers, several other Phelpses,
and we've been able to establish migration routes for the families
involved, even though we have yet to find our common ancestor, or
the most recent common ancestor, as they like to officially word it.
My oldest know Phelps ancestor was born in 1805, his oldest known
one was born in 1810. They could be brothers, they could be cousins,
their fathers were cousins, or they might even be uncle and nephew
(if the family was large enough. My uncle who was tested is the
youngest of 10 siblings, and the oldest grandchild is only 3 years
younger than my uncle). But we do know that with that close of a
match, we're not going to need to look too many generations beyond
them to find that common ancestor.
IF you do decide to test, then I advise you to go for the highest
number of markers possible. You can match with a lot of people at
12 markers, which would be handy if you wanted to establish that
you're from one particular Melson line and not another. But if
you're looking for matches that would be more recent, you really
need to test the highest number of markers. And of course, this
will cost more. Check to see if there's a surname project for the
name - many, if not all, of the companies that offer testing will
give discounts if you're being tested via a surname project. Once
you have your results, you should consider joining Y-Search. I
believe that it's run/sponsored by Family Tree DNA, but anyone can
join. You register and then input your Y-DNA results and hopefully
find more matches. Read up on just what it means to match someone
at 35 markers with a minus of 3. They are making new discoveries as
this evolves, and there are various groups that you can join and
keep track of the latest things (there's a DNA group at Rootsweb, I
think). For instance, they now know that some markers will mutate
faster than others, and some will mutate slower than others, and
matching or not matching someone on those markers can make a
difference in how closely related you might be.
Shop around. How long does the company keep your sample? What are
their privacy rules with regard to the samples? How easy is it to
upgrade to a higher marker test? Ask around, or just lurk on groups
that discuss results to see how pleased people are/were with the
company they chose. If you think a test result is in error, how
hard is it to get the company to retest?
If you decide to go for it, then I wish you success. And patience.
I know of one woman who had her brother tested and it took 3 years
before they finally had a match. But they did get one, and it was a
good one.
Take care,
Cathy Roberts
Huntersglenn <hunter...@cox.net>
saki
> Anybody? You signed up, paid the (exorbitant) fee, got the results
> and made a significant breakthrough you would not otherwise have
> made.
>
I'm running a DNA project for a rare German surname (Jatho) for two
reasons: I was interested in establishing the haplogroup (genetic
group) for my male cousin and his direct line back to our earliest
known ancestor, which was established with a paper trail to c. 1620
in the villages around Dransfeld, Hannover; and I was interested in
possible future matches with others sharing the same surname.
The fees were not, IMHO, exorbitant, but I did wait for sale prices
at the company I used. I tested my cousin using a 67-marker test.
We recently added in a 37-marker test for another fellow with the
same surname but whose ancestry so far doesn't match with our
documentation in the USA, though his family has not yet done any
research in Germany.
The test indicated a 95% possibility of a match within 24
generations, which is just outside of the documentable paper-trail
time frame for this region in Germany, but the probability is strong
enough that I felt the next best step would be to reinitiate German
research with the goal of establishing, if possible, a documented
connection via local parish registries and census records in and
around Dransfeld.
What the DNA test helped me determine was where it would be most
efficient to spend my next allocation of research funds. Further DNA
testing (e.g. an upgrade to 67 markers from 37) was unwarranted
because of the already strong match. I think we'll get more bang for
our buck (or Euro) by pursuing this course of action.
Establishing a project also helped me get discounted rates for the
test. If you're considering DNA testing for yourself and/or other
Melsons, I'd recommend going this route.
The haplogroup for the Jatho men we've tested is one of the most
common in Western Europe (R1b1b2), so it's not inconsistent with
German origins, but it's seen in a number of other regions too
(England, Spain, Portugal, Wales, Scottland, etc.).
For trying to narrow down place of origin in Europe I'm not sure I'd
recommend a DNA test. Most haplogroups arose from their parent
groups well outside a genealogical time frame, some many thousands
of years ago, well before the concept of borders, countries, and
ethnic groups.
Occasionally there's an interesting surprise. I wanted to develop a
separate project for my paternal Danish ancestry, particularly since
surnames were not in use more than 200 years ago in my region of
Denmark (they used patronyms). The goal was to find matches with
others from the region who might have paperwork that established a
link.
There have been a few matches but not many and none with matching
paperwork. The surprise was my father's haplogroup, which was G2a3b.
The Gs exist in only 2% of current Danish population and the
haplogroup arose from a mutation 8,000 - 10,000 years ago in the
northern Middle East, maybe the region where Pakistan or Iran now
exist. So before my Danes were Danes, they had clearly done some
traveling.
L.L. Scott
> I've toyed with the idea of doing DNA testing in hopes of obtaining
> information that'd help break through my paternal-line brickwall.
>
I have a simular problem trying to determine Paternal line, but I
differ in the fact that I am a female.
I have recently made contact with a female from the line I am trying
to connect to.
Can I do anything if our DNA were compared?
I had been told a man's name for a number of years till I got a
state birth certificate which had another name. :-(
"L.L. Scott" <llsco...@bellsouth.net>
Ron Lankshear in Sydney NSW
> As you can tell, I'm not convinced DNA testing is the answer to
> "every maiden's prayer", but I'm willing to be convinced.
>
>
That is so true.
I was encouraged to DNA by a similar name group. DNA showed my name
as I expected was not any link to them.
At low level marker 12 I got a few matches as tests came in for 25
then 37 the matches dropped until there were a handfull of matches
but not all 37. Finding out what this might mean meant getting into
the science.
And all I could understand was that a common ancestor was over 600
years ago and basically not traceable.
If others of my surname did the match then I hope we would have some
agreement. BUT then I know we are all cousins anyway
--
Ron Lankshear -Sydney NSW (from London-Shepherds Bush/Chiswick)
try my links
http://freepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lankshear/
Ron Lankshear in Sydney NSW <ron...@hotmail.com>
Mick
> I've toyed with the idea of doing DNA testing in hopes of obtaining
> information that'd help break through my paternal-line brickwall.
> It seems to me, though, that DNA results are ambiguous at best -
> they can tell when you share a common ancestor with another person
> but can't tell you even so much/little as the generation - you
> merely identify another person in the male line of descent from the
> ur-grandfather. I don't see that kind of result as justifying the
> testing fees.
>
> OK, those are MY negatives. I understand the mechanism, I think,
> and see the drawbacks and seriously wonder whether the cost is
> justified. There's bound to be somebody out there, though, who has
> a success story, and that's what I'm looking for.
>
> Anybody? You signed up, paid the (exorbitant) fee, got the results
> and made a significant breakthrough you would not otherwise have
> made.
>
> I don't want recommendations for Service A vs Service B - if that's
> what you have to offer, don't bother replying.
>
> I'm not looking for an argument about affordability - that's an
> individual thing and is also of no interest.
>
> I AM interested in your success stories - years of searching without
> result, did the DNA bit, got the guy with the ancestor in common
> and, voila!, the wall came tumbling down!
>
> As you can tell, I'm not convinced DNA testing is the answer to
> "every maiden's prayer", but I'm willing to be convinced.
>
Read the archives this dead horse has been more than flogged, it's
flayed.
MickG
Mick <mic...@verizon.net>
Marshall Lake
> I AM interested in your success stories - years of searching without
> result, did the DNA bit, got the guy with the ancestor in common
> and, voila!, the wall came tumbling down!
DNA testing for genealogy research is not a panacea. It's nothing
more than another research tool.
For me DNA testing was a benefit. I have yet to find any paper
evidence connecting one of my namesake direct ancestors to his
father. DNA testing, though, has shown that I descend from a
certain namesake direct ancestor three or four generations older
than the direct ancestor which has no paper trail.
So, what DNA testing has provided me is a specific direction to look
in. And it has ruled out other directions which in the end saves me
time and money.
Marshall Lake <fa...@NS.net>
kat >^.^<
> I've toyed with the idea of doing DNA testing in hopes of obtaining
> information that'd help break through my paternal-line brickwall.
> It seems to me, though, that DNA results are ambiguous at best -
> they can tell when you share a common ancestor with another person
> but can't tell you even so much/little as the generation - you
> merely identify another person in the male line of descent from the
> ur-grandfather. I don't see that kind of result as justifying the
> testing fees.
>
> OK, those are MY negatives. I understand the mechanism, I think,
> and see the drawbacks and seriously wonder whether the cost is
> justified. There's bound to be somebody out there, though, who has
> a success story, and that's what I'm looking for.
>
> Anybody? You signed up, paid the (exorbitant) fee, got the results
> and made a significant breakthrough you would not otherwise have
> made.
>
> I don't want recommendations for Service A vs Service B - if that's
> what you have to offer, don't bother replying.
>
> I'm not looking for an argument about affordability - that's an
> individual thing and is also of no interest.
>
> I AM interested in your success stories - years of searching without
> result, did the DNA bit, got the guy with the ancestor in common
> and, voila!, the wall came tumbling down!
>
> As you can tell, I'm not convinced DNA testing is the answer to
> "every maiden's prayer", but I'm willing to be convinced.
>
OK, I'll go first.
Other researchers had traced our family back to Jamestown VA near
the beginning of that colony. We still haven't found a confirmed
European home town, but we have paperwork that shows the D~ family
in colonial times. There were 7 siblings (not all with solid
paperwork) and they bred a lot, but the name is still quite
uncommon. However, more than 170 D~s fought in the Civil War on
either side.
During the civil war, my GGGfather, BSD, was conscripted to a
Confederate infantry in Tennessee. According to legal paperwork, he
was declared dead in 1895 (the legal papers say something to the
effect of "...being that it appear that BSD has died..."). There
was also a story that he'd been killed by Confeds, but it was
sketchy at best.
(1)This did not stop his widow from birthin' babies, so there are a
lot of D~s out there who are accredited to BSD that aren't his
blood.
(2) The news of BSD's death was greatly exaggerated. He actually
ended up in a West Virginia Union Volunteer troop. He married
another woman (bigamy) and they had 5 boys. This is my line.
(3) The LDS has another woman's name listed as BSD's wife in at
least two places; there is no other evidence this person even
existed, but this data has sent more than one person on a wild
goosechase.
Because of the official Tennessee death certificate, my line was in
question. Because of the inaccurate LDS data, we wasted precious
time and effort and missed some clues at first glance.
Once we figured out (with a paper trail) that BSD had been
conscripted into the Confed infantry, probably went AWOL and signed
up with the WV volunteers (still no proof how he did it) then stayed
in WV, we found his second wife's name, his marriage certificate
(with parent's names), and the family bible list.
Even after showing all of the paper trail, there was some question,
simply because tradition held with the original death certificate
and his infantry record seemed to be scrupulously kept, putting him
in two places at once. There were questions: was it a case of stolen
identity? Was my research flawed? The more experienced researchers
were not impressed with my hard work, even with copies of the
microfilm, two published books with stories that included BSD's
name, and the family bible listings.
So. I talked my brother into doing the DNA. Six months later,
another person's DNA made a direct hit. HIS line wasn't suspect--in
fact, it was the only positively confirmed son of the original D~,
10 generations back. So, suddenly the family was buzzing with
excitement, and family history was re-written. And next year I have
to present a fuller, more detailed presentation of how we tracked
and did it all.
For us, it was worth it. As for BSD's first wife's children's
children's children, I have had several contact me, and it's always
difficult to explain that their line is rather inaccurate, and
suggest that they consider DNA testing because the lineage of at
least one of the other possible father's is available.
kat >^.^<
"kat >^.^<" <kat...@yahoo.com>
Ian Goddard
<snip>
> OK, those are MY negatives. I understand the mechanism, I think,
> and see the drawbacks and seriously wonder whether the cost is
> justified. There's bound to be somebody out there, though, who has
> a success story, and that's what I'm looking for.
< further snip>
> I AM interested in your success stories - years of searching without
> result, did the DNA bit, got the guy with the ancestor in common
> and, voila!, the wall came tumbling down!
>
> Bob Melson
You can get two results: "consistent with common ancestry" or "not
consistent with common ancestry". Note that the latter is the more
definite conclusion: "consistent" only signifies "could be", not
"is", whilst "not consistent" signifies "isn't".
So (a) do you have a question to which one of those answers may give
you a breakthrough and (b) did those reporting a success really have
such a question answered in the way they thought?
Also, when a "consistent with" result estimates the date of that
common ancestor within so many generations, does it also quote the
precision of that estimate and the shape of the probability
distribution?
Equally surly ol' Ian
Hotmail is for spammers. Real mail address is igoddard
at nildram co uk
Ian Goddard <godd...@hotmail.co.uk>
Cheryl Freeman
> I've toyed with the idea of doing DNA testing in hopes of
> obtaining information that'd help break through my paternal-line
> brickwall. It seems to me, though, that DNA results are ambiguous
> at best - they can tell when you share a common ancestor with
> another person but can't tell you even so much/little as the
> generation - you merely identify another person in the male line
> of descent from the ur-grandfather. I don't see that kind of
> result as justifying the testing fees.
>
> and see the drawbacks and seriously wonder whether the cost is
> justified. There's bound to be somebody out there, though, who
> has a success story, and that's what I'm looking for.
>
> results and made a significant breakthrough you would not otherwise
> have made.
>
> I don't want recommendations for Service A vs Service B - if
> that's what you have to offer, don't bother replying.
>
> I'm not looking for an argument about affordability - that's an
> individual thing and is also of no interest.
>
> without result, did the DNA bit, got the guy with the ancestor in
> common and, voila!, the wall came tumbling down!
>
> "every maiden's prayer", but I'm willing to be convinced.
>
> Bob Melson <amia...@mypacks.net>
Hello Bob,
Y-DNA testing has been worth the money in my research on my
husband's paternal line on which I am brickwalled. Many records in
the area where I first found this ancestor in SC at age 32 have been
lost, I have not been able to find wills, adminisration or court
records in his or nearby counties for people with his surname.
Because of Y-DNA testing, I know where his ancestors were before
they came to SC. As more researchers are tested, patterns of allele
mutations have begun to appear in close matches that suggest when
lines probably diverged. Since I know when people with this surname
appeared in the area, I have a probable time when his father or
grandfather came to the area.
Just as important to me is that as lines are tested and their
haplogroups are identifed, I know to whom my husband's ancestor was
NOT related. Even among members of the study who are the same
haplogroup, a look at who shares allele mutations has saved me from
going down some "rabbit trails" in my research. Because of what I
have learned from DNA testing, I have a far clearer idea where to
search for records and for what time periods to search them.
Another benefit is that DNA testing has connected me with
researchers who are close matches. While we do not yet know how we
are connected, we are sharing out research and ideas.
Lastly, there should be a special place in heaven for researchers
who have a well-documented paper trail and participate in the tests.
For people like me who hope to break through a brick wall, it is
wonderful to find a "match" who has a documented paper trail back to
the time of the probable most recent common ancestor, because it can
suggest a new direction for research. Of course, there is always the
risk of DNA testing pointing to a non-paternal event in a
well-documented line, but that, too, should be valuable information.
Just my thoughts. Y-DNA testing has not helped my research leap
tall buildings in a single bound, but is one of the most valuable
tools I am using in this research.
BTW, as regards cost, there are discounts given to members of
surname groups. There have ben frequent "deals" for upgrades and
add-on testing" To me the cost/value ratio of YDNA testing is
favorable relative to the value.
Cheryl Freeman
"Cheryl Freeman" <che...@genattic.com>
Betti Cogswell
I have not done this but have a couple of thoughts, having taught
some genetics courses to community college nursing students:
1. it is really not worth it to try to find out your DNA unless you
have a sample to compare it with.
2. in my opinion [imho] it is really only worthwhile if you worry
about a myriad of genetic anamolies or diseases and want to see if
they run in your family line.
--
Betti [chinmom]
home.comcast.net/~chinmom
Betti Cogswell <chi...@pobox.com>
kat >^.^<
I made a date error that may affect the story flow--sorry--proofreading is
only as good as the reader.
"kat >^.^<" <kat...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:...
> (top-posting, sorry)
> OK, I'll go first.
> Other researchers had traced our family back to Jamestown VA near the
> beginning of that colony. We still haven't found a confirmed European
> home town, but we have paperwork that shows the D~ family in colonial
> times. There were 7 siblings (not all with solid paperwork) and they bred
> a lot, but the name is still quite uncommon. However, more than 170 D~s
> fought in the Civil War on either side.
> During the civil war, my GGGfather, BSD, was conscripted to a Confederate
> infantry in Tennessee. According to legal paperwork, he was declared dead
> in *******1865****** (the legal papers say something to the effect of
> "Bob Melson" <amia...@mypacks.net> wrote in message
> news:h6p9r1$pdn$1...@askin-17.linkpendium.com...
>>
>> I've toyed with the idea of doing DNA testing in hopes of obtaining
>> information that'd help break through my paternal-line brickwall.
>> It seems to me, though, that DNA results are ambiguous at best -
>> they can tell when you share a common ancestor with another person
>> but can't tell you even so much/little as the generation - you
>> merely identify another person in the male line of descent from the
>> ur-grandfather. I don't see that kind of result as justifying the
>> testing fees.
>>
>> OK, those are MY negatives. I understand the mechanism, I think,
>> and see the drawbacks and seriously wonder whether the cost is
>> justified. There's bound to be somebody out there, though, who has
>> a success story, and that's what I'm looking for.
>>
>> Anybody? You signed up, paid the (exorbitant) fee, got the results
>> and made a significant breakthrough you would not otherwise have
>> made.
>>
>> I don't want recommendations for Service A vs Service B - if that's
>> what you have to offer, don't bother replying.
>>
>> I'm not looking for an argument about affordability - that's an
>> individual thing and is also of no interest.
>>
>> I AM interested in your success stories - years of searching without
>> result, did the DNA bit, got the guy with the ancestor in common
>> and, voila!, the wall came tumbling down!
>>
>> As you can tell, I'm not convinced DNA testing is the answer to
>> "every maiden's prayer", but I'm willing to be convinced.
>>
>> Help?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Surly Ol' Bob
>>
>> --
>> Robert G. Melson | Rio Grande MicroSolutions | El Paso, Texas
>> -----
>> A government big enough to give you everything you want is big
>> enough to take away everything you have. Thomas Jefferson
>>
>> Bob Melson <amia...@mypacks.net>
>
>
------- End of Forwarded Message
cecilia
> [...] DNA testing
> [...]
> Anybody? You signed up, paid the (exorbitant) fee, got the results
> and made a significant breakthrough you would not otherwise have
> result, did the DNA bit, got the guy with the ancestor in common
>
> Bob Melson
Have a look at
http://www.lightpatch.com/genealogy/cardendnaproject/May%202003%20Report.pdf
(This is not my family - I merely know of the project.)
Various Cardens can trace paper descent from a John Carden "the
Patriach" in Tipperary, whose sons married 1672-3.
DNA testing has shown that y-DNA of "the Patriach" matches that of
men who can trace paper descent from Cardens known to have come from
Cheshire.
It has also shown that in the case of some of the "Tipperary"
Cardens there was a 'non-paternal' event in the generations between
John Carden "the Patriach" and (his great-grandson, if I recollect
correctly) John Carden born 1699.
One of those that descends from this non-paternal event had not
before been able to show any connection to the "Tipperary group".
Walls tumbling down? Maybe so, for the person in the last
paragraph. I would describe it more as possibly a light on the path
for the others.
my...@ic24.net (cecilia)
J. Hugh Sullivan
>> I've toyed with the idea of doing DNA testing in hopes of
>> obtaining information that'd help break through my paternal-line
>> brickwall. It seems to me, though, that DNA results are ambiguous
>> at best - they can tell when you share a common ancestor with
>> another person but can't tell you even so much/little as the
>> generation - you merely identify another person in the male line
>> of descent from the ur-grandfather. I don't see that kind of
>> result as justifying the testing fees.
DNA testing can tell you where not to look.
I have tried to research the line of every Sullivan in VA and SC
prior to 1800, Sullivans in NC prior to 1835 and in AL after 1835.
The trail always comes to an end at my gggrandfather.
I can look at the Surname Study DNA tests and Haplo groups and
determine which lines I no longer need to track. Of course that has
caused me to reach end of track - no other Sullivan is in my Haplo
group (save one cousin). C'est la vie.
DNA Testing can also eliminate some unconfusion.
About 10 non-Sullivan Surnames have surfaced in my Haplo group, That
has enabled me to become thoroughly confused. You may, or may not,
consider that a reason to test.
Hugh
Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan)
Marilyn Bess
>>> I've toyed with the idea of doing DNA testing in hopes of
>>> obtaining information that'd help break through my paternal-line
>>> brickwall. It seems to me, though, that DNA results are ambiguous
>>> at best - they can tell when you share a common ancestor with
>>> another person but can't tell you even so much/little as the
>>> generation - you merely identify another person in the male line
>>> of descent from the ur-grandfather. I don't see that kind of
>>> result as justifying the testing fees.
>
>
> I have tried to research the line of every Sullivan in VA and SC
> prior to 1800, Sullivans in NC prior to 1835 and in AL after 1835.
> The trail always comes to an end at my gggrandfather.
>
> I can look at the Surname Study DNA tests and Haplo groups and
> determine which lines I no longer need to track. Of course that has
> caused me to reach end of track - no other Sullivan is in my Haplo
> group (save one cousin). C'est la vie.
>
> DNA Testing can also eliminate some unconfusion.
>
> About 10 non-Sullivan Surnames have surfaced in my Haplo group, That
> has enabled me to become thoroughly confused. You may, or may not,
> consider that a reason to test.
>
Testing a cousin showed us that the reason that our line would not
connect with any others was that we are just at a brickwall. We had
only one match on 12 markers. I now am not trying to connect them
to other lines.
Marilyn
"Marilyn Bess" <oldcoun...@verizon.net>
Bob Melson
>>>> I've toyed with the idea of doing DNA testing in hopes of
>>>> obtaining information that'd help break through my paternal-line
>>>> brickwall. It seems to me, though, that DNA results are ambiguous
>>>> at best - they can tell when you share a common ancestor with
>>>> another person but can't tell you even so much/little as the
>>>> generation - you merely identify another person in the male line
>>>> of descent from the ur-grandfather. I don't see that kind of
>>>> result as justifying the testing fees.
<snip>
> Testing a cousin showed us that the reason that our line would not
> connect with any others was that we are just at a brickwall. We had
> only one match on 12 markers. I now am not trying to connect them
> to other lines.
>
> "Marilyn Bess" <oldcoun...@verizon.net>
Thanks Marilyn - and everybody else, even fellow curmudgeon MikeG,
who responded to my original query. Your experiences and
observations have all gone into the hopper and, I'm sure, after a
suitable period of grinding and stirring, will help me make up my
laughingly so-called mind.
I think it's about time to pull the plug on this thread, lest we
further excite the grumpy among us. So, again, thanks all for
sharing.
J. Hugh Sullivan
Again, since I tried to follow so many lines it was very helpful to
eliminate most of them - except I wanted to connect with someone.
I have one strong, unchallenged theory, that testing did not
eliminate. And there are two more possibilities (that I know of)
that remain. If one male from one of the best known Sullivan lines
would test I would have more answers.
One unmentioned problem is that you might agree with several people
but no one had their line as far back as you. So you filled in a
few blank spots but are still marking time.
Cost was not a factor that I considered.
bob gillis
Bob Melson wrote:
>>>>> I've toyed with the idea of doing DNA testing in hopes of
>>>>> obtaining information that'd help break through my
>>>>> paternal-line brickwall. It seems to me, though, that DNA
>>>>> results are ambiguous at best - they can tell when you share
>>>>> a common ancestor with another person but can't tell you even
>>>>> so much/little as the generation - you merely identify
>>>>> another person in the male line of descent from the
>>>>> ur-grandfather. I don't see that kind of result as
>>>>> justifying the testing fees.
There are 186 lists on rootsweb alone containing DNA. plus
DNA-NEWBIE which I did not see in the 186 but with the names being
sorted somehow but not alphabetically it is hard to find a
particular list and Genealogy-DNA.
I think that a DNA related list might give you better help than this
general list.
bob gillis
bob gillis <robert...@verizon.net>