reply to John Brandon re Fulford
charlotte smith
I have found this:
Edward I
Elizabeth md Humphrey de Bohun
Margaret de Bohun md Hugh de Courtenay
Philip de Courtenay md Anne Wake
John Courtenay md Joan Champernoun
Philip Courtenay md Elizabeth Hungerford
Philippa Courtenay md Thomas Fulford
Alice Fulford md Thomas Dowrish
Richard Dowrish md Catesby
Thomas Dowrish md Elizaeth Taverner
Thomas Dowrish md Anne Farrington(Farringdon)
Grace Dowrish md Robert Gye
Mary Gye md John Maverick
another way to go to Mary Gye Maverick
charlotte c smith
Brad Verity
> sometime ago you asked if someone could check the statement of J G Hunt;s "Westcote, op cit(i. A view of Devon in MDCXXX , p 618.
> showing that Grace Dowrish descended from thomas Fulford of fulford and back to Courtney family
> and Ed I Probably Hunt is right.and Mary Gye does belong to the Courtenay family also.
> I have found this:
> Edward I
> Elizabeth md Humphrey de Bohun
> Margaret de Bohun md Hugh de Courtenay
> Philip de Courtenay md Anne Wake
> John Courtenay md Joan Champernoun
> Philip Courtenay md Elizabeth Hungerford
> Philippa Courtenay md Thomas Fulford
Dear Charlotte,
The above descent is correct up to this point. Sir Thomas Fulford,
husband of Philippa Courtenay of Powderham, died 20 February 1489. He
was the son of Sir Baldwin Fulford (d. 1461) and his wife Jennet Bosom.
Philippa's father, Sir Philip Courtenay of Powderham, was born 1404,
and died 16 December 1463. His eldest son and heir William (Philippa's
brother) was born about 1428 (returned as age 35 in his father's IPMs).
> Alice Fulford md Thomas Dowrish
This is the generation that fails. Per the information you posted from
the Victoria County History, Thomas Dowrish was born about 1414, Alice
Fulford was born about 1416, and their son Richard was born about 1445.
Philippa Courtenay was born--at the earliest--after 1430, so could not
have been the grandmother of a man born about 1445.
We actually have marriage dates for some of Sir Philip Courtenay of
Powderham's daughters: Anne Courtenay married Thomas Grenville on 9
July 1447, Elizabeth Courtenay married James Luttrell on 13 January
1451, and Joane Courtenay, widow of William Beaumont (d. 5 Dec. 1453)
married 2nd, Sir Henry Bodrugan on 28 January 1454.
Philippa was likely younger than these sisters, and not married until
the 1460s, as her eldest son, Sir Humphrey Fulford, was born about
1470.
> Richard Dowrish md Catesby
Per the Fulford pedigree in Vivian's 'Visitation of Devon', Sir Thomas
Fulford and Philippa Courtenay had a daughter, Joan Fulford, married to
"Richard Dowrish, of Dowrish, s.p.". Westcote's Devon is the source
cited for this. It's possible that Richard Dowrish took this Joan
Fulford as a second wife, but she could not have been the mother of his
son Thomas Dowrish, who was born about 1482, according to your Victoria
County History of Devon information.
This is the only Dowrish/Fulford marriage shown in the pedigree. It's
quite possible there was an earlier one between a Alice Fulford and a
Thomas Dowrish, but Westcote and/or Vivian got it hopelessly confused.
If so, Alice Fulford Dowrish was likely the daughter or sister of Henry
Fulford, grandfather of Sir Thomas Fulford.
Cheers, --------Brad
Leo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Verity" <bat...@hotmail.com>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: reply to John Brandon re Fulford
> charlotte smith wrote:
>
<snip>
> The above descent is correct up to this point. Sir Thomas Fulford,
> husband of Philippa Courtenay of Powderham, died 20 February 1489. He
> was the son of Sir Baldwin Fulford (d. 1461) and his wife Jennet Bosom.
>
Dear Brad,
In Gerald Paget's book on the ancestors of Prince Charles is a couple named
Sir Baldwin Fulford and Elizabeth Bozon. According to the same book they
have (at least) two daughters, Alice and Thomasine, both also ancestors of
Prince Charles.I wonder,
are these two Baldwins the same person, and is Jennet the same person as
Elizabeth?
Many thanks.
Leo van de Pas
Brad Verity
> In Gerald Paget's book on the ancestors of Prince Charles is a couple named
> Sir Baldwin Fulford and Elizabeth Bozon. According to the same book they
> have (at least) two daughters, Alice and Thomasine, both also ancestors of
> Prince Charles.I wonder,
> are these two Baldwins the same person, and is Jennet the same person as
> Elizabeth?
Dear Leo,
Yes, this is the same couple. In various Visitation pedigrees of the
Fulfords, she is called "Jennet" daughter and heir of John Bosome. Per
the pedigrees, her daughter Alice Fulford married William Cary, and her
daughter Thomasine Fulford married Thomas Wise.
Cheers, --------Brad