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John Polmorva, esq., Cornwall, c.1410
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Matt Tompkins
Apr 25, 2012, 10:54:16 AM4/25/12
to
Does anyone know anything about a John Polmorva, esquire, of Cornwall
who owned lands in and around Bodmin, served in France and died some
time early in the 15th century, leaving a widow called Joan?
I’d particularly like to know when he died, as I’m trying to put a
precise date on the lawsuit which his widow Joan brought against
Nicholas Carminow in the court of Chancery at an uncertain date, most
probably between 1413 and 1426. Joan’s petition, with an attached
schedule of property, can be seen here:
C1/6/337: http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT4/ChP/C1no6/IMG_0380.htm
C1/6/338: http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT4/ChP/C1no6/IMG_0381.htm
The petition, in French, recites that Joan’s husband John Polmorva,
esquire, took sick when in France in the service of the King, returned
to England and died, after which Nicholas Carminow of Somerset entered
Joan’s lands and tenements in Bodmin, Tregoos, Pendynmene, Trefrank,
Gluvian, Ennisvarth, Lostwithiel, and Hustynt in Cornwall – Joan is
trying to recover the lands and various livestock and household goods
taken with them.
As is usual with Chancery pleadings, the petition is undated, but its
address identifies the Lord Chancellor at the time as the bishop of
Winchester. Bishops of Winchester occupied this office in 1389-91,
1404-1407, 1413-1417, 1424-1426 and 1456-60. This plea is unlikely to
have been submitted in the last period (1456-60), and the first two
can probably be dismissed on the basis that Joan’s husband was almost
certainly the John Polmorva, esq., who was given letters of protection
to serve in the garrison of Oye in Picardy in March 1410 (TNA: C76/93,
and CPR Hen IV, iv, p. 190).
A TNA Catalogue search reveals references from 1415-17 to a John
Polmorva of Cornwall, esq., as a debtor under a statute staple of
1411, so the 1413-17 window can probably also be excluded.
(The catalogue also shows a John Polmorva of Cornwall suing for house-
breach in 1426-32 [C 1/7/299, 300], but the original petition in the
AALT website reveals that this John Polmorva’s wife was called
Elizabeth, so he must be a different man).
Any information about John Polmorva, especially the date of his death,
or his widow Joan, or the wicked Nicholas Carminow (described by Joan
in another petition as 'le pluis graunde extorcioner oppressoer et
maintenour de tout le pays') will be very gratefully received.
Matt Tompkins
PS The schedule to Joan's petition (C1/6/338) is written in English,
in a remarkably clear hand, and is a fascinating list of the contents
of a late medieval squire's house - see how much you can read! The
heading reads:
"These be the godes the whiche Nicholas Carmynowe wrongely withholdes
and
kepes fro Johanne sumtyme the wife of John Polmorva"
who owned lands in and around Bodmin, served in France and died some
time early in the 15th century, leaving a widow called Joan?
I’d particularly like to know when he died, as I’m trying to put a
precise date on the lawsuit which his widow Joan brought against
Nicholas Carminow in the court of Chancery at an uncertain date, most
probably between 1413 and 1426. Joan’s petition, with an attached
schedule of property, can be seen here:
C1/6/337: http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT4/ChP/C1no6/IMG_0380.htm
C1/6/338: http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT4/ChP/C1no6/IMG_0381.htm
The petition, in French, recites that Joan’s husband John Polmorva,
esquire, took sick when in France in the service of the King, returned
to England and died, after which Nicholas Carminow of Somerset entered
Joan’s lands and tenements in Bodmin, Tregoos, Pendynmene, Trefrank,
Gluvian, Ennisvarth, Lostwithiel, and Hustynt in Cornwall – Joan is
trying to recover the lands and various livestock and household goods
taken with them.
As is usual with Chancery pleadings, the petition is undated, but its
address identifies the Lord Chancellor at the time as the bishop of
Winchester. Bishops of Winchester occupied this office in 1389-91,
1404-1407, 1413-1417, 1424-1426 and 1456-60. This plea is unlikely to
have been submitted in the last period (1456-60), and the first two
can probably be dismissed on the basis that Joan’s husband was almost
certainly the John Polmorva, esq., who was given letters of protection
to serve in the garrison of Oye in Picardy in March 1410 (TNA: C76/93,
and CPR Hen IV, iv, p. 190).
A TNA Catalogue search reveals references from 1415-17 to a John
Polmorva of Cornwall, esq., as a debtor under a statute staple of
1411, so the 1413-17 window can probably also be excluded.
(The catalogue also shows a John Polmorva of Cornwall suing for house-
breach in 1426-32 [C 1/7/299, 300], but the original petition in the
AALT website reveals that this John Polmorva’s wife was called
Elizabeth, so he must be a different man).
Any information about John Polmorva, especially the date of his death,
or his widow Joan, or the wicked Nicholas Carminow (described by Joan
in another petition as 'le pluis graunde extorcioner oppressoer et
maintenour de tout le pays') will be very gratefully received.
Matt Tompkins
PS The schedule to Joan's petition (C1/6/338) is written in English,
in a remarkably clear hand, and is a fascinating list of the contents
of a late medieval squire's house - see how much you can read! The
heading reads:
"These be the godes the whiche Nicholas Carmynowe wrongely withholdes
and
kepes fro Johanne sumtyme the wife of John Polmorva"
Janet Wolfe
Apr 25, 2012, 3:47:01 PM4/25/12
to
"John Lanhergy. 680. Writ for proof of age. 26 July 1416. Cornwall.
Proof of age. Bodmin. 5(?) Oct. 1416. The jurors say that he was born
at Bodmin and baptized in the church of St. Petrock on 8 Feb. 1391,
and is therefore aged 21 years and more. John Polmorva, aged 44 years
and more, knows this because he had a daughter, Lucy, baptized in that
church on that day."
I also looked in the database of "The Soldier in Medieval England"
project
http://www.icmacentre.ac.uk/soldier/database/
which one can search at
http://www.icmacentre.ac.uk/soldier/database/search.php
There are two results for John Polmorva in the protection database of
the project:
Name Surname Status Captain Name Type Date Duration
Location Reference Membrane
John Polmorva Esquire Lardiner, John Protection 14100318 1 year
Oye Castle TNA C76/93 m14
John Polmorva Esquire Lardiner, John Protection 14100426 1 year
Picardy
These appear to refer to the TNA and CPR entries you note.
I did not find Polmorva using the surname search in the muster or
garrison databases. One can search for all entries with first name
John and then order the results by surname to look for alternative
spellings. I didn't see anything that looked like a variant of
Polmorva.
Matt Tompkins
Apr 25, 2012, 4:09:38 PM4/25/12
to
> which one can search athttp://www.icmacentre.ac.uk/soldier/database/search.php
>
> There are two results for John Polmorva in the protection database of
> the project:
> Name Surname Status Captain Name Type Date Duration
> Location Reference Membrane
> John Polmorva Esquire Lardiner, John Protection 14100318 1 year
> Oye Castle TNA C76/93 m14
> John Polmorva Esquire Lardiner, John Protection 14100426 1 year
> Picardy
> These appear to refer to the TNA and CPR entries you note.
>
> I did not find Polmorva using the surname search in the muster or
> garrison databases. One can search for all entries with first name
> John and then order the results by surname to look for alternative
> spellings. I didn't see anything that looked like a variant of
> Polmorva.
Thank you very much for those references, Jan. In fact I had already
> There are two results for John Polmorva in the protection database of
> the project:
> Name Surname Status Captain Name Type Date Duration
> Location Reference Membrane
> John Polmorva Esquire Lardiner, John Protection 14100318 1 year
> Oye Castle TNA C76/93 m14
> John Polmorva Esquire Lardiner, John Protection 14100426 1 year
> Picardy
> These appear to refer to the TNA and CPR entries you note.
>
> I did not find Polmorva using the surname search in the muster or
> garrison databases. One can search for all entries with first name
> John and then order the results by surname to look for alternative
> spellings. I didn't see anything that looked like a variant of
> Polmorva.
seen both of them, though in my haste I only thought of the Proof of
Age as speaking from 1391, whereas I now realise it is in fact proof
that a John Polmorva was active in Bodmin in 1416, and so is further
reason to think Joan's husband probably did not die in the 1413-17
window (not before 5 Oct 1416, anyway).
Matt
Matt Tompkins
Apr 26, 2012, 11:55:38 AM4/26/12
to
On Apr 25, 3:54 pm, Matt Tompkins <ml...@le.ac.uk> wrote:
> Does anyone know anything about a John Polmorva, esquire, of Cornwall
> who owned lands in and around Bodmin, served in France and died some
> time early in the 15th century, leaving a widow called Joan?
>
> I’d particularly like to know when he died, as I’m trying to put a
> precise date on the lawsuit which his widow Joan brought against
> Nicholas Carminow in the court of Chancery at an uncertain date, most
> probably between 1413 and 1426. Joan’s petition, with an attached
> schedule of property, can be seen here:
>
> C1/6/337: http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT4/ChP/C1no6/IMG_0380.htm
> C1/6/338: http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT4/ChP/C1no6/IMG_0381.htm
>
> The petition, in French, recites that Joan’s husband John Polmorva,
> esquire, took sick when in France in the service of the King, returned
> to England and died, after which Nicholas Carminow of Somerset entered
> Joan’s lands and tenements in Bodmin, Tregoos, Pendynmene, Trefrank,
> Gluvian, Ennisvarth, Lostwithiel, and Hustynt in Cornwall – Joan is
> trying to recover the lands and various livestock and household goods
> taken with them.
I also posted this query to the Rootsweb Cornish-Gen list, where
> Does anyone know anything about a John Polmorva, esquire, of Cornwall
> who owned lands in and around Bodmin, served in France and died some
> time early in the 15th century, leaving a widow called Joan?
>
> I’d particularly like to know when he died, as I’m trying to put a
> precise date on the lawsuit which his widow Joan brought against
> Nicholas Carminow in the court of Chancery at an uncertain date, most
> probably between 1413 and 1426. Joan’s petition, with an attached
> schedule of property, can be seen here:
>
> C1/6/337: http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT4/ChP/C1no6/IMG_0380.htm
> C1/6/338: http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT4/ChP/C1no6/IMG_0381.htm
>
> The petition, in French, recites that Joan’s husband John Polmorva,
> esquire, took sick when in France in the service of the King, returned
> to England and died, after which Nicholas Carminow of Somerset entered
> Joan’s lands and tenements in Bodmin, Tregoos, Pendynmene, Trefrank,
> Gluvian, Ennisvarth, Lostwithiel, and Hustynt in Cornwall – Joan is
> trying to recover the lands and various livestock and household goods
> taken with them.
someone has pointed out that the Carminow pedigree in Vivian's 1620
Visitation of Cornwall (at p. 34) shows a Nicholas Carminow, IPM in
1471-2, probably born around 1390-ish, who married an Alice Polmarva.
He speculates that this marriage may explain the basis to Nicholas
Carminow's claim to the properties in disupute with Joan Polmorva, and
I think he is probably right.
Unfortunately it doesn't really help me put dates to John Polmorva's
death and Joan's lawsuit against Nicholas Carminow. Of course, if the
above is right then the lawsuit must have post-dated Carminow's
marriage, and the marriage can hardly have been before about 1400 at
the earliest, so that provides a terminus post quem. But I already
have a terminus in 1410, from the letters of protection which show
that John Polmorva was still alive in that year, and possibly even in
1417, if other references to a John Polmorva living in the mid-1410s
are to the same man.
Matt Tompkins
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