Message from discussion
Agnes of Aquitaine
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From: Peter.Stew...@crsrehab.gov.au (Stewart, Peter)
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
Subject: RE: Agnes of Aquitaine
Date: 8 Jul 2001 22:51:57 -0600
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Todd A. Farmerie [mailto:farme...@interfold.com]
> Sent: Monday, 9 July 2001 11:05
> To: GEN-MEDIEVA...@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: Agnes of Aquitaine
>
>
> Ther...@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Actually, your Agnes #1 is the aunt of Agnes #2:
> >
> > Guillaume VI of Poitou = Hildegarde of
> > (VIII of Aquitaine) Burgundy
> > d. 25 Sept 1086 /
> > ________________________/__________________
> > / /
> > Guillaume VII = Philippa Alfonso VI = Agnes
> > (IX of Aquitaine) of Toulouse of Leon
> > d. Feb 1126/27
> > ___________/_________________________
> > / /
> > Guillaume VIII = Anor Agnes = Ramiro II
> > (X of Aquitaine) of Chatellerault Sanchez of
> > d. 1137 Aragon d.1137
>
>
> Agnes, daughter of Guillaume VI/VIII and Hildegarde married, not
> Alfonso VI, but his first cousin, once removed, Pedro I Sanchez,
> King of Aragon and Navarre, half-brother of Ramiro. The Agnes,
> wife first (and first wife) of Alfonso VI, and second (as second
> wife) of Helias, Count of Maine, is called daughter of Guy
> Geoffrey (Guillaume VI/VIII) by a spanish chronicler, but
> chronologically is unlikely to have been daughter by Hildegarde.
> Most historians have concluded that she was daughter of Guillaume
> by his second wife. (I have my own idea on it, but do not wish
> to discuss it in the group at this time, as my speculation will
> immediately show up in someone's database.)
I don't share this tender concern - any database that would adopt
acknowledged speculation from this newsgroup is no doubt already corrupt &
hardly worth worrying about. If we are inhibited from posting thoughts &
discussing the evidence for possibilities here, SMG will be much less
valuable & interesting than otherwise.
However, a database which indiscriminately takes up the dicta of Todd will
probably be a great deal more accurate than most. Perhaps it will be helpful
if I assume the privilege of irresponsibility - since no sensible person is
likely to copy my musings into a database - and post an account (from the
"usual suspect" sources) which Todd or others might feel able to criticise
ad lib:
Guillaume VI/VIII appears to have had two daughters named Agnes: the elder
was born to his second wife Mateoda (Mathilde, possibly of Thouars),
possibly before their marriage in November 1058 following the repudiation of
William's first wife Garsende of Perigord. This Agnes, who died ca 1078,
married in 1069 as his first wife Alfonso VI el Bravo, king of Castile (born
before June 1040, died at Toledo 30 June 1109). They had no children and
were divorced in 1077.
By his third wife Hildegarde (aka Audearde) of Burgundy (born ca 1050, died
after 1120) William VI/VIII was also father of a second Agnes, who died in
1097, This lady married at Jaca in 1086 (as his first wife) Pedro I, king of
Aragon & Navarre (born 1069, died Valle de Aran 27 September 1104). By him
she had a son Pedro (who married a daughter of el Cid and died in his
father's lifetime) and a daughter Isabel who also died young.
The maternity of William IX/VII the Troubadour's daughter Agnes, niece to
these women, is also questionable. This Agnes (aka Mathilde) died after
1147, having married first before 11 April 1106 Aimery V (or VI), viscount
of Thouars (killed in battle 1127, by whom she had four sons) and secondly
at Jaca in November/December 1135 Ramiro II el Monje, king of Aragon &
Navarre (born ca 1075, died at Huesca 16 August 1147), by whom she was
mother of his heiress Petronilla. Agnes was probably the daughter of William
the Troubadour's first wife Philippa (aka Mathilde) of Toulouse, although
for some unclear reason ES (neue Folge) has her as an illegitimate daughter
by the notorious Mauberge (aka Dangereuse) of l'Isle Bouchard, whose husband
was viscount of Châtellerault.
No wonder the chroniclers were sometimes confused by people running around
in a warm climate with so many aliases.
Peter Stewart
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