Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss

Margaret Wake's first marriage?

10 views
Skip to first unread message

Michelle.Mu...@ccmail.team400.ie

unread,
Jul 23, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/23/99
to
A table posted by Ed Mann on 22nd June 1999 featured the following:

3 [2] Margaret Wake aka: Lady Wake b: Abt. 1299 d: 29
Sep 1349 ref #:
W114-5
*2nd Husband of [2] Margaret Wake:

+Edmund Plantagenet aka: Edmund of Kent b: 5 Aug 1301
d: 19 Mar
1329/30 ref #: F226:14xvii


If Edmund Plantaganet was Margaret Wake's second husband, who was her first
husband, and was there any issue of the marriage? Also, what other issue was
there of Edmund's marriage to Margaret Wake?

thanks,

Michelle Murphy

michell...@life.friendsfirst.ie


John Carmi Parsons

unread,
Jul 23, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/23/99
to
Margaret Wake's first husband was John Comyn, only son of the John Comyn
murdered by Robert Bruce in 1306 (the murdered John's wife was Joan de
Valence, daughter of William and hence a niece of Henry III of England).
Margaret's husband John fell at Bannockburn in 1314 leaving by her one son,
Aymer, who survived his father but died an infant before 15 Nov. 1316.
(Balfour, *Scots Peerage* and CP).

Margaret then married (papal disp. 6 Oct. 1325, and m. about Christmastide
1325), Edmund earl of Kent (1301-30), younger son of King Edward I by his
second wife Margaret of France. Their three children were:

Edward, second earl of Kent, b. ca 1326, survived his father but died
shortly before 5 Oct. 1331.

Joan, b. 29 Sept. 1328, d. 8 Aug. 1385. The tangled story of her marital
misadventures is well known; best known as the wife of her third husband,
Edward "the Black Prince," and mother of King Richard II.

John, third earl of Kent, b. 7 Apr. 1330, d. 26/27 Dec. 1352. He had m.
in 1348 Elizabeth, daughter of William duke of Juelich in the Low Countries
(maternally a niece of Edward III's wife Queen Philippa), but left no
issue. (CP)

The chronology of Margaret Wake's marriages and childbearing raises questions
about the date of her birth. There is no avoiding the conclusion that she must
have been older than her second husband, but it's not clear by just how many
years. The Inqs Post Mortem taken at the death of her last brother (when she
succeeded to the Wake inheritance) would suggest a birth date ca 1299. It
would by no means be impossible that she, born in that year, could have
produced a child by 1314. But we have to keep in mind that juries at Inqs
p.m. were often bothered only to establish that the individual concerned was of
full age, and if that person were obviously so (as Margaret was when the Wake
inheritance devolved upon her) the jurors gave responses meant only to confirm
what everyone already knew. In this case, we know that Margaret's parents had
at least 2 children living as early as 1290, though the two sons who succeeded
in turn to the Wake estates were not born until later in that decade. As none
of the 3 Wake children who survived to maturity can be associated with the
unnamed children mentioned in royal accounts in 1290, I surmise that Margaret
was most likely born sometime between 1295 and 1300.

John Parsons

D. Spencer Hines

unread,
Jul 23, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/23/99
to
Vide infra.

D. Spencer Hines

Lux et Veritas
--

D. Spencer Hines --- "Probitas Laudatur et Alget" [Honesty is praised
and starves.], Decimus Junius Juvenalis (Juvenal) [c. 50 A.D.-- c.130
A.D.], _Satires, I, line 74_

John Carmi Parsons <jpar...@chass.utoronto.ca> wrote in message
news:Pine.SGI.3.95.99072...@chass.utoronto.ca...

> Margaret Wake's first husband was John Comyn, only son of the John
Comyn
> murdered by Robert Bruce in 1306 (the murdered John's wife was Joan
de
> Valence, daughter of William and hence a niece of Henry III of
England).
> Margaret's husband John fell at Bannockburn in 1314 leaving by her
one son,
> Aymer, who survived his father but died an infant before 15 Nov.
1316.
> (Balfour, *Scots Peerage* and CP).
>
> Margaret then married (papal disp. 6 Oct. 1325, and m. about
Christmastide
> 1325), Edmund earl of Kent (1301-30), younger son of King Edward I
by his
> second wife Margaret of France. Their three children were:
>
> Edward, second earl of Kent, b. ca 1326, survived his father but
died
> shortly before 5 Oct. 1331.
>
> Joan, b. 29 Sept. 1328, d. 8 Aug. 1385. The tangled story of her
marital
> misadventures is well known; best known as the wife of her third
husband,
> Edward "the Black Prince," and mother of King Richard II.

Millions of people world-wide are descended from Margaret Wake and
Edmund, Earl of Kent, through Joan "The Fair Maid of Kent."

There are no doubt a significant number of folks right here on SGM and
GEN-MEDIEVAL who are descended from her.

DSH

Lux et Veritas

ED MANN

unread,
Jul 23, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/23/99
to
Michelle.Murphy%EIH...@ccmail.team400.ie wrote:
>
> A table posted by Ed Mann on 22nd June 1999 featured the following:
>
> 3 [2] Margaret Wake aka: Lady Wake b: Abt. 1299 d: 29
> Sep 1349 ref #:
> W114-5
> *2nd Husband of [2] Margaret Wake:
>
> +Edmund Plantagenet aka: Edmund of Kent b: 5 Aug 1301
> d: 19 Mar
> 1329/30 ref #: F226:14xvii
>
> If Edmund Plantaganet was Margaret Wake's second husband, who was her first
> husband, and was there any issue of the marriage? Also, what other issue was
> there of Edmund's marriage to Margaret Wake?

I show no issue by her 1st marriage to John Comyn:

Descendants of Margaret Wake

1 [1] Margaret Wake aka: Lady Wake b: Abt. 1299 d: 29 Sep 1349 ref #:
W114-5
+John Comyn aka: Lord of Badenoch d: 24 Jun 1314 ref #: BPci:2076
*2nd Husband of [1] Margaret Wake:

+Edmund Plantagenet aka: Edmund of Kent b: 5 Aug 1301 d: 19 Mar
1329/30 ref #: F226:14xvii

2 Edmund Plantagenet b: Abt. 1326 d: 5 Jan 1332/33 ref #:
F226:14xvii
2 [3] Joan Plantagenet aka: "Fair Maid of Kent" b: 29 Sep 1328 d: 7
Aug 1385 ref #: F139:9
+Sir Thomas de Holand aka: 1st Earl of Kent d: 26 Dec 1360 ref #:
W90-7
3 Sir Thomas de Holand aka: 2d Earl of Kent b: Abt. 1350 d: 25 Apr
1397 ref #: F140:8
+Alice FitzAlan d: 17 Mar 1415/16 ref #: F105:13iv
3 Sir John de Holand aka: 1st Duke of Exeter b: Aft. 1350 d: 9 Jan
1399/00 ref #: F140:ii
+Elizabeth Plantagenet b: Bef. 21 Feb 1362/63 d: 24 Nov 1425 ref #:
F121:8
3 [2] Maud de Holand aka: Dame de Rouex ref #: BxP:279
+Hugh de Courtenay d: 1377 ref #: BPci:1911
*2nd Husband of [2] Maud de Holand:
+Walram III de Luxemburg aka: Earl of St. Paul
*2nd Husband of [3] Joan Plantagenet:
+Sir William de Montacute aka: 2d Earl of Salisbury d: 1397 ref #:
BxP:372
*3rd Husband of [3] Joan Plantagenet:
+Edward Plantagenet aka: "The Black Prince" b: 15 Jun 1330 d: 8 Jun
1376 ref #: F229:12i
3 Edward Plantagenet b: 27 Jan 1364/65 d: 1372
3 [4] King Richard II of England b: 6 Jan 1366/67 d: 6 Jan 1399/00
+Anne of Bohemia b: 11 May 1366 d: 7 Jun 1394
*2nd Wife of [4] King Richard II of England:
+Isabelle de France b: 9 Nov 1389 d: 13 Sep 1409
2 John Plantagenet b: 7 Apr 1330 d: Dec 1352 ref #: F226:14xvii
+Elizabeth de Julich

--
FWIW; AFAIK; IMHO; YMMV; yadda, yadda, yadda.

Regards, Ed Mann mailto:edl...@mail2.lcia.com

References:
Ä = Weis, _Ancestral_Roots_, 7th ed.
AACPW = Roberts & Reitwiesner, _American Ancestors and Cousins of
the Princess of Wales_, [page].
AAP = Roberts, _Ancestors_of_American_Presidents_, [page] or
[Pres. # : page].
BP1 = _Burke's_Presidential_Families_, 1st ed. [page].
BPci = _Burke's_Peerage_, 101st ed., [page].
BRF = Weir, _Britain's_Royal_Families_, [page].
BxP = _Burke's_Dormant_&_Extinct_Peerages_, [page].
EC1 = Redlich, _Emperor_Charlemagne's_Descendants_, Vol I, [page].
EC2 = Langston & Buck, _Emperor_Charlemagne's_Descendants_, Vol II,
[page].
EC3 = Buck & Beard, _Emperor_Charlemagne's_Descendants_, Vol II,
[page].
F = Faris, _Plantagenet_Ancestry_, [page:para].
NK1 = Roberts, _Notable_Kin_Volume_One_, [page].
Π= Hardy, _Colonial_Families_of_the_Southern_States_of_America_,
[page].
S = Stuart, _Royalty_for_Commoners_, 2d ed. Caveat emptor.
W = Weis, _Magna_Charta_Sureties,_1215_, 4th ed.
WFT = Broderbund's World Family Tree CD, [vol]:[num] Caveat emptor.
WMC = Wurt's Magna Charta, [vol]:[page]


0 new messages