Poke at Frances Harriet Leigh Duchess of Caithness

[Wjhonson]

http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00312012&tree=LEO

Leo I think you will find if you poke at her ancestry, something truly interesting.
Look at who her maternal grandfather was, for a hint.

[Turenne]

>> Countess << of Caithness

RL

[John Higgins]

I assume you're talking about the connection to the Canning family,
since the mother of Frances Harriet Leigh was the aunt of George
Canning, the Prime Minister. But there is interesting ancestry behind
her father as well, including quite a number of royal descents (most
recently from Edward III) - through such families as (among others)
the Talbots.

[Wjhonson]

Thanks. I had recorded that Edward Leigh of Rushall, who died in 1671 "aet 69" had married Elizabeth Talbot daughter of "Thomas Talbot" but knew nothing of him.

Now by your prompting, poking at him a bit I realize that he is this one called Thomas Talbot "of Worfield near Bridgnorth, co Salop" and was the third son of John Talbot of Salwerpe and Grafton, Knt; by his wife Olive Sherrington

That makes this Thomas Talbot a Cecil 6, a new one to my database, and makes him a tenth generation descent from Edward 1

This family appears in the Vis Shropshire

[Alex Maxwell Findlater]

Surely this Elizabeth Talbot is more remote than a daughter of
Harriet's maternal grand-father?

Edward Leigh was born 1602, 2nd son of Henry Leigh of Rushall, BA
1620, MA 1623 (Oxon), a Colonel in the Parliamentary Army and a well-
known author, who died 1671, which earned him an entry in the DNB.

Frances Harriet on the other hand would seem to have been born about
1800, and her father William was born 1752, adm Trinity 1774,
transferred to Corpus Christi 1777, LLB 1778 and died 1809 a year
after becoming Dean of Hereford. His birth record shows his father as
John Burridge Leigh (PCC will 1774) and mother as Olympia and there is
an IGI entry, without evidence, for her being Olympia dau of Daniel
Houghton and Jane Blackburn. Daniel Houghton was an African explorer
according to the much used Wiki. I haven't seen an entry for William's
marriage or for Frances Harriet's birth though.

[Derek Howard]

On Jul 9, 9:29 am, Alex Maxwell Findlater

<maxwellfindla...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Surely this Elizabeth Talbot is more remote than a daughter of
> Harriet's maternal grand-father?
>
> Edward Leigh was born 1602, 2nd son of Henry Leigh of Rushall, BA
> 1620, MA 1623 (Oxon), a Colonel in the Parliamentary Army and a well-
> known author, who died 1671, which earned him an entry in the DNB.

A copy of the will of Edward Leigh of Rushall, mentioning "all the
works which I published in my life time", dated 1668 is in the
Rushall and Ettingshall in Sedgley papers at Staffordshire and Stoke-
on-Trent Archive Service, Staffordshire Record Office (D822/1/1).

RUSHALL (St. Michael), a parish, in the union of Walsall, S. division
of the hundred of Offlow and of the county of Stafford, 1 mile (N. E.
by N.) from Walsall; .... The church ..... contains some old monuments
to the Leigh family, of whom Edward Leigh, author of Critica Sacra and
several other works, died in 1677, and was buried in the chancel.
'Ruscomb - Ruswarp', A Topographical Dictionary of England (1848), pp.
717-719.
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=51250

> Frances Harriet on the other hand would seem to have been born about
> 1800, and her father William was born 1752, adm Trinity 1774,
> transferred to Corpus Christi 1777, LLB 1778 and died 1809 a year
> after becoming Dean of Hereford.  His birth record shows his father as
> John Burridge Leigh (PCC will 1774)

i.e. the will of John Burridge Leigh of Rushall Hall, Staffordshire,
11 May 1774, PROB 11/998/50

I take it this chap is the same as "John Barridge, esq., of Leigh,
Rushall Hall, Staffordshire", whose probate inventory, or declaration,
of the estate of the same, deceased, 1775 September, is at PROB
31/624/599, Exhibit: 1775/599.

John Burridge Leigh was High Sheriff of Stafforddshire in 1755,
according to Wikipedia.

For other Leighs of Rushall or Leigh Rushalls, see also:
Edward Leigh Rushall , Staffordshire, PPC 1 July 1773, PROB 11/990/2

William Leigh Rushall, Staffordshire, 30 May 1718, PROB 11/564/28

Henry Legh or Leigh Rushall, Staffordshire, 22 May 1639, PROB
11/180/124

For the early Leighs of Rushall see, The Visitacion of Staffordschire
made by Robert Glover, al's Somerset herald, mareschall to William
Flower, ...., 1583, p 103 et seq.:
http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00098554/00001/155j

> and mother as Olympia and there is
> an IGI entry, without evidence, for her being Olympia dau of Daniel
> Houghton and Jane Blackburn.  Daniel Houghton was an African explorer
> according to the much used Wiki. I haven't seen an entry for William's
> marriage or for Frances Harriet's birth though.

The very interesting ancestry of Olympia is to be found at:
http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/manuscriptsandspecialcollections/collectionsindepth/family/thorotonhildyard/biographies/biographyofabrahamblackborne(-1720)andhisfamily.aspx

Papers relating to Daniel Houghton are in the De Hoghton of Hoghton
papers at Lancashire Record Office. The papers include a number of
pedigrees of the family.

Derek Howard

[smith....@gmail.com]

See Frederick William Willmore, Records of Rushall, County Stafford: with a transcript of the Old Parish ...,1892, Walsall, pps 83-84. This work outlines her ancestry.


Doug Smith

[Wjhonson]

Oh this is excellent! I had no idea Olympia had been traced. I'll work on this tonight or tomorrow.
Seems like I should write up the ancestry of Frances, and also a bit on *why* she is important to my research into Theosophy.
The history of Theosophy is really arcane and convoluted, but many of them were great letter writers.
It's just a long journey to read through the thousands and thousands of pages of communications looking for the small biographical details.

-----Original Message-----
From: Derek Howard <dho...@skynet.be>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Mon, Jul 9, 2012 3:50 am
Subject: Re: Poke at Frances Harriet Leigh Duchess of Caithness


On Jul 9, 9:29 am, Alex Maxwell Findlater
maxwellfindla...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Surely this Elizabeth Talbot is more remote than a daughter of
Harriet's maternal grand-father?

Edward Leigh was born 1602, 2nd son of Henry Leigh of Rushall, BA
1620, MA 1623 (Oxon), a Colonel in the Parliamentary Army and a well-
known author, who died 1671, which earned him an entry in the DNB.
A copy of the will of Edward Leigh of Rushall, mentioning "all the

orks which I published in my life time", dated 1668 is in the

ushall and Ettingshall in Sedgley papers at Staffordshire and Stoke-

n-Trent Archive Service, Staffordshire Record Office (D822/1/1).
RUSHALL (St. Michael), a parish, in the union of Walsall, S. division

f the hundred of Offlow and of the county of Stafford, 1 mile (N. E.

y N.) from Walsall; .... The church ..... contains some old monuments

o the Leigh family, of whom Edward Leigh, author of Critica Sacra and

everal other works, died in 1677, and was buried in the chancel.
Ruscomb - Ruswarp', A Topographical Dictionary of England (1848), pp.

17-719.

ttp://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=51250
> Frances Harriet on the other hand would seem to have been born about
1800, and her father William was born 1752, adm Trinity 1774,
transferred to Corpus Christi 1777, LLB 1778 and died 1809 a year
after becoming Dean of Hereford. His birth record shows his father as
John Burridge Leigh (PCC will 1774)
i.e. the will of John Burridge Leigh of Rushall Hall, Staffordshire,
1 May 1774, PROB 11/998/50
I take it this chap is the same as "John Barridge, esq., of Leigh,

ushall Hall, Staffordshire", whose probate inventory, or declaration,

f the estate of the same, deceased, 1775 September, is at PROB

1/624/599, Exhibit: 1775/599.
John Burridge Leigh was High Sheriff of Stafforddshire in 1755,

ccording to Wikipedia.
For other Leighs of Rushall or Leigh Rushalls, see also:

dward Leigh Rushall , Staffordshire, PPC 1 July 1773, PROB 11/990/2
William Leigh Rushall, Staffordshire, 30 May 1718, PROB 11/564/28
Henry Legh or Leigh Rushall, Staffordshire, 22 May 1639, PROB
1/180/124
For the early Leighs of Rushall see, The Visitacion of Staffordschire

ade by Robert Glover, al's Somerset herald, mareschall to William

lower, ...., 1583, p 103 et seq.:

ttp://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00098554/00001/155j
> and mother as Olympia and there is
an IGI entry, without evidence, for her being Olympia dau of Daniel
Houghton and Jane Blackburn. Daniel Houghton was an African explorer
according to the much used Wiki. I haven't seen an entry for William's
marriage or for Frances Harriet's birth though.
The very interesting ancestry of Olympia is to be found at:

ttp://www.nottingham.ac.uk/manuscriptsandspecialcollections/collectionsindepth/family/thorotonhildyard/biographies/biographyofabrahamblackborne(-1720)andhisfamily.aspx
Papers relating to Daniel Houghton are in the De Hoghton of Hoghton

apers at Lancashire Record Office. The papers include a number of

edigrees of the family.
Derek Howard

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[Wjhonson]

Yes it lists one part of her ancestry related to Rushall.

-----Original Message-----
From: smith.doug466 <smith....@gmail.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Cc: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Mon, Jul 9, 2012 4:45 am
Subject: Re: Poke at Frances Harriet Leigh Duchess of Caithness

On Saturday, July 7, 2012 3:12:59 PM UTC-4, wjhonson wrote:
http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00312012&tree=LEO

Leo I think you will find if you poke at her ancestry, something truly

nteresting.
Look at who her maternal grandfather was, for a hint.
See Frederick William Willmore, Records of Rushall, County Stafford: with a

ranscript of the Old Parish ...,1892, Walsall, pps 83-84. This work outlines

er ancestry.

oug Smith

[John Higgins]

Yes, this is the source I had used also. I'm not sure, however, about
the accuracy of the connection of this Leigh family to the other Leigh/
Legh families. But the generations closer to Frances Harriet Leigh
are probably OK.

[John Higgins]

On Jul 9, 3:47 am, Derek Howard <dhow...@skynet.be> wrote:
> On Jul 9, 9:29 am, Alex Maxwell Findlater
>
> <maxwellfindla...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Surely this Elizabeth Talbot is more remote than a daughter of
> > Harriet's maternal grand-father?
>
> > Edward Leigh was born 1602, 2nd son of Henry Leigh of Rushall, BA
> > 1620, MA 1623 (Oxon), a Colonel in the Parliamentary Army and a well-
> > known author, who died 1671, which earned him an entry in the DNB.
>
> A copy of the will of Edward Leigh of Rushall, mentioning "all the
> works which I published in my life time",  dated 1668 is in the
> Rushall and Ettingshall in Sedgley papers at Staffordshire and Stoke-
> on-Trent Archive Service, Staffordshire Record Office (D822/1/1).
>
> RUSHALL (St. Michael), a parish, in the union of Walsall, S. division
> of the hundred of Offlow and of the county of Stafford, 1 mile (N. E.
> by N.) from Walsall; .... The church ..... contains some old monuments
> to the Leigh family, of whom Edward Leigh, author of Critica Sacra and
> several other works, died in 1677, and was buried in the chancel.
> 'Ruscomb - Ruswarp', A Topographical Dictionary of England (1848), pp.

> 717-719.http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=51250

> The very interesting ancestry of Olympia is to be found at:http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/manuscriptsandspecialcollections/collecti...

>
> Papers relating to Daniel Houghton are in the De Hoghton of Hoghton
> papers at Lancashire Record Office. The papers include a number of
> pedigrees of the family.
>
> Derek Howard

The Willmore book on Rushall cited elsewhere in this thread indicates
that Olympia Houghton, wife of John Burridge Leigh, was the daughter,
not of Daniel Houghton, but of Henry Houghton of Ongar, Essex. I
don't know how reliable this is, but it's worth a caution.

If either Daniel or Henry Houghton is connected to the Hoghtons of
Hoghton in Lancashire, they may appear in pedigrees of that family
which I think are in Croston's edition of Baines' Lancashire. I'll
check when I have a chance.

[John Higgins]

There is an extensive pedigree of the family of Hoghton of Hoghton in
vol. 4 of Croston's edition of Baines's "History of the County
Palatine and Duchy of Lancaster". Although there are numerous Henrys
and Daniels in the pedigree (some in the proper time frame), there is
no Daniel or Henry Houghton [sic} with the connections mentioned in
this thread.

Is it definite that the Daniel Houghton whose papers are said above to
be in the De Hoghton of Hoghton papers at Lancashire Record Office is
in fact the perosn we're concerned about here? And who was Henry
Houghton of Ongar, the alternative father of Olympia?

[Derek Howard]

The Daniel Houghton mentioned by Alex as an African traveller must be
the one whose papers are here:
http://archivecat.lancashire.gov.uk/CalmView/TreeBrowse.aspx?src=CalmView.Catalog&field=RefNo&key=DDHO%2F18

I am not so sure though whether he is the same Daniel who married Jane
Blackborne and had a daughter Olympia (who now appears to be the
niece(?) of Olympia the wife of John Burridge Leigh, though I am
having a little difficulty understanding the layout and relationships
in the genealogy at
http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/manuscriptsandspecialcollections/collectionsindepth/family/thorotonhildyard/biographies/biographyofabrahamblackborne(-1720)andhisfamily.aspx
) .

Derek Howard

[John Higgins]

> the one whose papers are here:http://archivecat.lancashire.gov.uk/CalmView/TreeBrowse.aspx?src=Calm...

>
> I am not so sure though whether he is the same Daniel who married Jane
> Blackborne and had a daughter Olympia (who now appears to be the
> niece(?) of Olympia the wife of John Burridge Leigh, though I am
> having a little difficulty understanding the layout and relationships

> in the genealogy athttp://www.nottingham.ac.uk/manuscriptsandspecialcollections/collecti...
> ) .
>
> Derek Howard

I agree with you that the Daniel Houghton letters in the Lancashire
collection you cite must be those of Daniel Houghton the African
traveler described in the Wikipedia article. But, if the Wikipedia
article is correct, I don't think that he is the Daniel Houghton who
married Jane Blackburn - or that he is of the family of Hoghton of
Hoghton.

The Wiki article says that Daniel Houghton the traveler was of an
Irish family. It gives no details on this but doesn't mention the
Lancashire family of Hoghton. Perhaps the Lancashire archivists
simply (but erroneously) associated him with Maj.-Gen. Daniel Hoghton
(also listed in that citation) who WAS of the Lancashire family.

More important, Daniel Houghton the traveler is said to have been born
in 1740 - which is consistent with the dates of his letters in the
Lancashire archives. But the marriage of Daniel Houghton and Jane
Blackburn took place in St. Paul's Cathedral in London on 30 June
1720, per this record:
http://books.google.com/books?id=NzIEAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA55#v=onepage&q&f=false

So clearly these are two different Daniel Houghtons - and the dates of
the traveler's letters, in the late 1770s, are clearly unlikely to be
those of a man who was married in 170, nearly 60 years earlier.

As to the placement of Olympia, wife of John Burridge Leigh, in the
Blackburn pedigree, I suspect that the indenting is wrong in that
pedigree, and that the sisters Jane and Olympia Houghton (as well as
Olympia's son Rev. William Leigh) should have been moved one indent to
the right. This placement makes sense given all the dates we've seen
so far.

BTW the Blackburn pedigree says that Jane Blackburn's sister Mary
married Sir Charles Matthew Goring, 5th Baronet. This is confirmed by
the latter's bio in vol. 4 of the Complete Baronetage, which also says
that Jane's father William Blackburn was of Morton Ash and High Ongar,
Essex. This latter reference ties back to the mention, in Willmore's
Rushall cited earlier, of "Henry Houghton of Ongar" as Olympia's
father. Perhaps Willmore just got the Christian name of Olympia's
father.

I was intrigued by the possibility that Olympia Houghton might be of
the family of Hoghton of Hoghton, and thus probably possessing some
interesting ancestry - but that doesn't seem too likely now. Oh,
well....

[Wjhonson]

Attacking another part of her ancestry, here is the Canning family of Garvagh
toward the bottom you see Stratford Canning the merchant and he is listed with three sisters
The "Elizabeth" sister is the one who married Rev William Leigh
the future prime minister George Canning, lived for a time with his aunt and uncle Leigh, while he was at Eton

http://books.google.com/books?id=DLAKAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA349

[Alex Maxwell Findlater]

On Jul 15, 1:10 am, Wjhonson <wjhon...@aol.com> wrote:
> Attacking another part of her ancestry, here is the Canning family of Garvaghtoward the bottomyousee Stratford Canning the merchant and he is listed with three sisters
> The "Elizabeth" sister is the one who married Rev William Leighthe future prime minister George Canning, lived for a time with his aunt and uncle Leigh,whilehe was at Eton
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=DLAKAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA349


Here is the birth of Frances Harriet Leigh, who had an elder sister
Elizabeth Jane, born 1785:

Frances Henrietta Leigh
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 23 Dec 1787
baptism/christening place: SAINT MARY IN THE
MARSH,NORWICH,NORFOLK,ENGLAND
birth date: 04 Dec 1787
father's name: William Leigh
mother's name: Elizabeth Canning
indexing project (batch) number: C04804-1
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 993896

Is there evidence of marriage of Elizabeth Canning to William Leigh?

You say that Canning stayed with his aunt Elizabeth while at Eton.
Was this culled from a
book on Canning? The younger son of Frances and the Earl of Caithness
had Canning as a second given name, which also fits.

[Wjhonson]

Your entry from the IGI showing that the mother of Frances Harriet Leigh was "Elizabeth Canning" and this book

http://books.google.com/books?id=74FHAAAAYAAJ&lpg=PA20&ots=hYEN6GuAsa&dq=george%20canning%20leigh&pg=PA20#v=onepage&q&f=true

showing that he is referred to here as her "nephew"
and that these letters show that he referred to Rev Leigh as "his uncle by marriage"

All go as evidence to cement the assertion that Jane Elizabeth Canning was twice married
Firstly to Westby Perceval esq as several works state, but then after the birth of a daughter, to Rev William Leigh of Rushall, but who also rented Ashborne where George Canning stayed sometime while at Eton

It will be remembered that although made his guardian, his uncle Stratford died in 1787 when George himself was only 17. I would not be surprised would it be found that Leigh was his next guardian as well.

Leigh officiated as well at Canning's marriage I believe

[Wjhonson]

And here we can identify were her first husband Westby Perceval fits, and further evidence of her second marriage to leigh, and the identification of "LP" (Leticia Perceval) her daughter

http://books.google.com/books?id=0wXkAAAAMAAJ&lpg=PA819&ots=1NdaGP7vkb&dq=perceval%20of%20philipstown&pg=PA819#v=onepage&q&f=true

-----Original Message-----
From: Wjhonson <wjho...@aol.com>
To: maxwellfindlater <maxwellf...@hotmail.com>; gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sun, Jul 15, 2012 9:01 am
Subject: Re: Poke at Frances Harriet Leigh Duchess of Caithness

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