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Message from discussion Appleton/Tyrell: A Tangle
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John  
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 More options Apr 24 2012, 8:15 pm
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
From: John <jhiggins...@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 17:15:02 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Tues, Apr 24 2012 8:15 pm
Subject: Re: Appleton/Tyrell: A Tangle
On Apr 24, 9:46 am, Brad Verity <royaldesc...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Apr 24, 8:02 am, Douglas Richardson <royalances...@msn.com> wrote:

> > Roger Appleton's wife, Elizabeth Frowick, was married previous to John
> > Martyn, who died in 1457 [see Sharpe Royal Descent (1875): 123 (Alphew
> > ped.).].  Elizabeth Frowick was the wife of Roger Appleton in 1464, as
> > indicated by her mother's will.  She subsequently married (3rd) John
> > Alphew.   Elizabeth Frowick is shown with these three husbands in a
> > Frowick pedogree published in Cass, South Mimms (1877): 70.
> > If Roger Appleton and his wife, Elizabeth Frowick, had issue, any
> > children born of this marriage would necessarily have been born after
> > 1457.  As such, it is impossible for them to be the parents of Thomas
> > Appleton, of Dartford, Kent who left a will dated 13 Feb. 1483[/84],
> > proved 11 May 1485, naming a wife, Alice, and seven children.

> > From all appearances, it seems to me that Roger Appleton, husband of
> > Elizabeth Frowick, was in the same time generation as Thomas Appleton
> > [Gen. 1 above], died 1485.  But they could not be father and son.

> I wonder if Roger Appleton the M.P. (I have not yet seen the entry for
> him in Wedgwood's HOP) had two wives?  First, Margery, by whom he had
> Thomas and Agnes, and then Elizabeth Frowick Martyn?  It seems quite
> likely that Richard Martyn of Dartford (d. by 1488), husband of Agnes
> Appleton, was her stepbrother, the son of Elizabeth Frowick & her
> first husband John Martyn (d. 1457)?

Wedgwood's bio of Roger Appleton the MP (d. 1491) gives him only a
single wife:  Elizabeth, dau. of Henry Frowick and widow of John
Martin [sic}.  As DR has noted above, for chronological reasons this
Roger cannot be the father of Thomas Appleton (d. 1485).  And
similarly he cannot be the grandfather of Roger Appleton (b. ca. 1462)
who married Anne Sulliard.

The identification of Roger Appleton and Elizabeth Frowick as the
parents of Thomas Appleton who supposedly married Joyce Tyrell seems
to have been first published in the 2nd edition of Faris' "Plantagenet
Ancestry" (it's not in the 1st edition) and carried forward without
change (or verification?) in DR's later volumes.  The identification
of Jouyce Tyrell (and particularly her parentage) seems to appear
first in RD500 (predecessor to RD600), which is cited in the 1st
edition of Faris along with the visitation pedigrees cited by RD500.

[snip]

> > I assume Christian Hartshorn is the Mackwilliam lady who is
> > commemorated in glass in the church at Stambourne, Essex.  See The
> > Connoisseur 1 (1901): 24, which is available in snippet view at the
> > following weblink:

> >http://books.google.ca/books?id=JgRHAQAAIAAJ&q=Edward+Mackwilliam&dq=...

This citation from Google Books (provided by DR, not Brad) appears to
be incorrect in its identification of the book in question.  A full-
view version of vol. 1 (1901) of "The Connoisseur" is available (in a
somewhat roundabout way) at the Internet Archive, and it does not
include the pages noted in the snippet view from Google Books.  I
haven't yet been able to identify "which" volume of The Connoisseur
might have these pages, but it's definitely not viol. 1 - or vol. 2.

Such are the pitfalls of doing "research" via a text-search mechanism
such as Google Books - especially via snippet views.  :-)


 
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