DE BRAOSE

[UTZ]

I have as the children of William de Braose and Maud de St. Valery

William=Matilda de Clare
Giles, Bishop of Hereford
Maud=Gruffudh ap Rhys
Reginald=Gwladys Dhu of Wales
Eleanor=Hugh de Mortimer
John=Margred verch Llewellyn

I have also seen a listing sans John, but adding

Loretta=Robert de Beaumont
Margaret=Walter de Lacy

The Margery/Margaret m. Walter de Lacy [1172-1241] and Loretta m. Robert Fitz-
Parnell [Earl of Leicester] as daughters of the above John & Margred.

Any clarification appreciated.

Always optimistic-- Dave

[KHF333]

In a message dated 3/28/98 11:48:22 AM, you wrote:

<<I have as the children of William de Braose and Maud de St. Valery

William=Matilda de Clare
Giles, Bishop of Hereford
Maud=Gruffudh ap Rhys
Reginald=Gwladys Dhu of Wales
Eleanor=Hugh de Mortimer
John=Margred verch Llewelly >>

I don't get it. His wife's name is wrong. His father was Robert de Brus.

21312. William de Braose (RN=6006), b abt 1049 at of Brienze,
Normandy, France, d aft 1089 at Bramber, Sussex, England,
fath Robert de Brus (RN=6408), moth Emma of Brittany
(RN=6409), m to Agnes de St. Clair (RN=6007), 1: Phillip
de Braose (RN=6002), 2: (daughter) md. Robert de
Harcourt (No Record), sou Royal Ancestors of Some
American Families, by Michel L. Call, chart 11430.
21313. Agnes de St. Clair (RN=6007), b at of Barnstaple,
Devonshire, England, m to William de Braose (RN=6006), 1:
Phillip de Braose (RN=6002), 2: (daughter) md. Robert de
Harcourt (No Record).

20616. Robert de Brus (RN=6408), b bef 1000 at of Bruis,
Normandy, France, d abt 1066, fath Ragenwald (Rogwald)
--Governor of Aldegorburg (RN=6401), moth Ardogia
(Arlogia) of Russia (RN=6402), m to Emma of Brittany
(RN=6409), 1: Adam (Adelm) de Brus --Baron Skelton, Lord
Cleveland (RN=6407), 2: William de Braose (RN=6006).
20617. Emma of Brittany (RN=6409), fath Alan II or III
--Duke/Earl of Brittany (RN=6412), moth Bertha of
Chartres (RN=6413), m to Robert de Brus (RN=6408), 1:
Adam (Adelm) de Brus --Baron Skelton, Lord Cleveland
(RN=6407), 2: William de Braose (RN=6006), (1: This
person is unknown to Isenburg, chart 75.), sou Royal
Ancestors of Some American Families, by Michel L. Call,
chart 11477.

You may want to check the Braos web page:
http://freespace.virgin.net/doug.thompson/BraoseWeb/index1.htm
Let us know what you find.

Kenneth Harper Finton
Editor, THE PLANTAGENET CONNECTION

_____________________HT COMMUNICATIONS____________________
PO Box 1401 Arvada, CO 80001 303-657-2723 K...@AOL.com

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[Matt Townsend]

I know this line has been going on for a while but...

Could the DE BROUSE surname also have been spelled DE BREWSE?

I have a loose end in the 1400's that shows a William DE BREWSE of Wenham
Hall, Suffolk. His daughter, Anne DE BREWSE b: 1474 married a Sir Roger
TOWNSHEND of East Raynham.

Matt Townsend
Monument, CO, USA

At 10:45 AM 3/28/98 -0800, UTZ wrote:
>I have as the children of William de Braose and Maud de St. Valery
>
>William=Matilda de Clare
>Giles, Bishop of Hereford
>Maud=Gruffudh ap Rhys
>Reginald=Gwladys Dhu of Wales
>Eleanor=Hugh de Mortimer

[ED MANN]

KHF333 wrote:

>
> In a message dated 3/28/98 11:48:22 AM, you wrote:
>
> <<I have as the children of William de Braose and Maud de St. Valery
>
> William=Matilda de Clare
> Giles, Bishop of Hereford
> Maud=Gruffudh ap Rhys
> Reginald=Gwladys Dhu of Wales
> Eleanor=Hugh de Mortimer

> John=Margred verch Llewelly >>
>
> I don't get it. His wife's name is wrong. His father was Robert de Brus.
>
> 21312. William de Braose (RN=6006), b abt 1049 at of Brienze,
> Normandy, France, d aft 1089 at Bramber, Sussex, England,
> fath Robert de Brus (RN=6408), moth Emma of Brittany
> (RN=6409), m to Agnes de St. Clair (RN=6007), 1: Phillip
> de Braose (RN=6002), 2: (daughter) md. Robert de
> Harcourt (No Record), sou Royal Ancestors of Some
> American Families, by Michel L. Call, chart 11430.
> 21313. Agnes de St. Clair (RN=6007), b at of Barnstaple,
> Devonshire, England, m to William de Braose (RN=6006), 1:
> Phillip de Braose (RN=6002), 2: (daughter) md. Robert de
> Harcourt (No Record).
>

The William who m. Maud de St. Valery is your WIlliam's greatgrandson:

Direct Descendants of Robert de Brus

1 Robert de Brus Abt. 1030 - ref #: BxP:80
+Emma de Bretagne Abt. 1034 - Abt. 1094
2 William de Braiose Abt. 1049 - Abt. 1087 ref #: BxP:72
+Agnes de St. Clare Abt. 1049 -
3 Philip de Braiose Abt. 1080 - ref #: BxP:72
+Aenor de Totnes Abt. 1084 - ref #: (Ä177-5)
4 Sir William de Braiose Abt. 1126 - Abt. 1193 ref #: BxP:72
+Bertha de Gloucester Abt. 1130 - ref #: Ä177-5
5 Sir William de Braiose Abt. 1153 - 1211 ref #: Ä177-6
+Maud de St. Valery Abt. 1155 - 1210 ref #: (Ä177-6)

--
FWIW; AFAIK; IMHO; YMMV; yadda, yadda, yadda.

Regards, Ed Mann mailto:edl...@mail2.lcia.com

References:
Ä = Weis, _Ancestral_Roots_, 7th ed.
AAP = Roberts, _Ancestors_of_American_Presidents_, [page] or
[Pres. # : page].
BP1 = _Burke's_Presidential_Families_, 1st ed. [page].
BPci = _Burke's_Peerage_, 101st ed., [page].
BRF = Weir, _Britain's_Royal_Families_, [page].
BxP = _Burke's_Dormant_&_Extinct_Peerages_, [page].
EC1 = Redlich, _Emperor_Charlemagne's_Descendants_, Vol I, [page].
EC2 = Langston & Buck, _Emperor_Charlemagne's_Descendants_, Vol II,
[page].
EC3 = Buck & Beard, _Emperor_Charlemagne's_Descendants_, Vol II,
[page].
F = Faris, _Plantagenet_Ancestry_, [page:para].
S = Stuart, _Royalty_for_Commoners_, 2d ed.
W = Weis, _Magna_Charta_Sureties,_1215_, 4th ed.

[UTZ]

In a message dated 98-03-28 13:48:21 EST, U...@aol.com writes:

<< The Margery/Margaret m. Walter de Lacy [1172-1241] and Loretta m. Robert
Fitz-
Parnell [Earl of Leicester] as daughters of the above John & Margred. >>

This should have read The Margery/Margaret m. Walter de Lacy [1172-1241] and
Loretta m. Robert Fitz-Parnell [Earl of Leicester] I have as daughters of the
above John & Margred.

Mea culpa

Always optimistic, Dave

[Doug Thompson]

On 28 Mar 1998 23:47:33 -0800, U...@aol.com (UTZ) wrote:

>This should have read The Margery/Margaret m. Walter de Lacy [1172-1241] and
>Loretta m. Robert Fitz-Parnell [Earl of Leicester] I have as daughters of the
>above John & Margred.
>

Your genealogical references are a bit confused here. The John (m
Margaret verch Llewelyn in 1219) you mention is the son of William de
Braose (d 1211 at Windsor, starved to death by King John) who was the
son of William and Maud St Valery. Loretta and Margaret (m Walter de
Lacy) are his aunts!

These two sisters both played important roles in the political history
of their time.

Margaret and Walter sheltered the de Braose family at their home in
Meath when they were being pursued by King John. The de Braoses and
the de Lacys, allied with Prince Llewelyn were in rebellion through
this period.

Loretta was the great-aunt of the Simon de Montfort who led the
barons' rebellion against Henry III, finally defeated at the battle of
Evesham (1265). She lived to great age as a religious recluse at
Hackington in Kent. She was approached by this Simon in1264 to give
information on the "rights and liberties" attached to the stewardship
of England. This post had once been held by Loretta's husband, Robert
de Beaumont, and had then descended to Simon de Montfort.

More details of the family can be found on my web-site.

Doug Thompson

http://freespace.virgin.net/doug.thompson/BraoseWeb/index1.htm

[Doug Thompson]

On 28 Mar 1998 13:18:18 -0800, KHF...@aol.com (KHF333) wrote:

>I don't get it. His wife's name is wrong. His father was Robert de Brus.
>
> 21312. William de Braose (RN=6006), b abt 1049 at of Brienze,
> Normandy, France, d aft 1089 at Bramber, Sussex, England,
> fath Robert de Brus (RN=6408), moth Emma of Brittany
> (RN=6409),

Ken,

The genealogy sources are incorrect here. This connection between de
Braose and de Brus is totally spurious. William's father is unknown.
The only fact known about his mother is that her name was Gonnor and
she held lands around Bavent, Rouvres, etc. which she had donated to a
religious foundation. Her name is given in a confirmation of this
gift by Henry II at a later date. (see Calendar of Documents Preserved
in France - J H Round. 1899)

You are also confusing the many Williams de Braose. Check out the
web-site for clarification.

>http://freespace.virgin.net/doug.thompson/BraoseWeb/index1.htm

Regards

Doug Thompson

[Doug Thompson]

On 28 Mar 1998 13:35:14 -0800, mto...@concentric.net (Matt Townsend)
wrote:

>I know this line has been going on for a while but...
>
>Could the DE BROUSE surname also have been spelled DE BREWSE?
>
> I have a loose end in the 1400's that shows a William DE BREWSE of Wenham
>Hall, Suffolk. His daughter, Anne DE BREWSE b: 1474 married a Sir Roger
>TOWNSHEND of East Raynham.
>
>Matt Townsend
>Monument, CO, USA
>

Yes! There are many variants of the spelling of the name. The earlier
ones were Braosa, finally settling down to Brewes in the 15th
century. Your William is the great-great-great-great-great- grandson
of the John de Braose discussed in the recent posts on this thread.

Doug Thompson

http://freespace.virgin.net/doug.thompson/BraoseWeb/index1.htm

History and Genealogy of the de Braoses

[UTZ]

In a message dated 98-03-28 16:17:43 EST, KHF333 writes:

<< You may want to check the Braos web page:
http://freespace.virgin.net/doug.thompson/BraoseWeb/index1.htm
Let us know what you find.
>>

That is where I got the info that conflicted with mine.

[UTZ]

Thanks to all who responded to my query. Here's what I now have:

Generation No. 1

1. WILLIAM DE BRAOSE died Abt. 1095. He married AGNES
OF ST. CLARE, daughter of WALDRON OF ST. CLARE.

Children of WILLIAM and AGNES are:
2. i. PHILLIP DE BRAOSE
3. ii. MATILDA DE BRAOSE.??

Generation No. 2

2. PHILLIP DE BRAOSE He married AENOR DE TOTNES,
daughter of JUHEL DE TOTNES.

Children of PHILLIP and AENOR are:
i. PHILLIP DE BRAOSE, m. EVA.
4. ii. WILLIAM DE BRAOSE, b. Abt. 1130; d. Abt. 1193.

3. MATILDA DE BRAOSE She married ROBERT DE HARCOURT
son of AUCHETIL and EVE.

Children of MATILDA and ROBERT are:
i. PHILIP DE HARCOURT.
ii. RICHARD DE RENNESVILLE.

Generation No. 3

4. WILLIAM DE BRAOSE was born Abt. 1130, and died Abt. 1193.
He married BERTHA OF GLOUCESTER, daughter of MILES OF
GLOUCESTER.

Children of WILLIAM and BERTHA are:
5. i. BERTHA OF BRAOSE.
6. ii. WILLIAM OF BRAOSE, b. Abt. 1149; d. 1212, Paris, FRA.
7. iii. SIBYL OF BRAOSE, b. Abt. 1150.
8. iv. REGINALD OF BRAOSE, b. Abt. 1182, Bramber, SSX, ENG;
d. Abt. 1228, Bramber, SSX, ENG.

Generation No. 4

5. BERTHA OF BRAOSE She married WILLIAM DE BEAUCHAMP.

Child of BERTHA and WILLIAM is:
9. i. WILLIAM OF BEAUCHAMP, d. Bef. 1211.

6. WILLIAM OF BRAOSE was born Abt. 1149, and died 1212 in Paris,
FRA. He married MAUD OF ST. VALERY 1190.

Children of WILLIAM and MAUD are:
10. i. WILLIAM DE BRAOSE, d. 1211.
ii. GILES OF BRAOSE, b. Bramber, SUS, ENG; d. 13-Nov-1215,
GLS, ENG.
11. iii. MAUD OF BRAOSE.
iv. ELEANOR OF BRAOSE, m. HUGH DE MORTIMER.
12. v. MARGERY OF BRAOSE.
vi. LORETTA OF BRAOSE, m. ROBERT FITZ- PARNELL.

7. SIBYL OF BRAOSE was born Abt. 1150. She married ROBERT
DE FERRERS.

Children of SIBYL BRAOSE and ROBERT are:
13. i. AGATHA DE FERRERS.
ii. JOHN DE FERRERS.
14. iii. WILLIAM DE FERRERS, d. Bef. 21-Oct-1190, Crusades,
Acre, Palestine, Siege of Acon.
iv. MILLICENT DE FERRERS.

8. REGINALD OF BRAOSE was born Abt. 1182 in Bramber, SSX,
ENG, and died Abt. 1228 in Bramber, SSX, ENG. He married (1)
GRAECIA DE BRIWERE, daughter of WILLIAM DE BRIWERE.
He married (2) GWLADYS DHU OF WALES 1215, daughter of
LLYWELYN and TANGWYSTL.

Child of REGINALD and GRAECIA is:
15. i. WILLIAM OF BRAOSE, b. Abt. 1204, Bramber, SUS, ENG;
d. 2-May-1230.

Always optimistic--Dave

[dick.bishop2]

Based on Ancestral Roots, 7th Edition, by Frederick Lewis Weis, Line 177-7,
page 152, Reginald BRAOSE was the son of William de BRAOSE and Maud
de St. Valerie vice Willaim de BRAOSE and Bertha of Gloucester.

----------
> From: UTZ <U...@aol.com>
> To: GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: DE BRAOSE
> Date: Sunday, 29 March, 1998 11:10 AM