William Sinclair of Rossyln, Sheriff of Edinburgh 1264
WJho...@aol.com
Willian Sinclair, Lord of Rossyln d aft 13 Sep 1358 married Isabella of
Strathern
son of
William Sinclair who dvp 25 Aug 1330 in Spain
son of
Henry Sinclair of Rossyln d bef 28 Jan 1335/6 and his wife Alice de Fenton
son of
William Sinclair of Rossyln, Sheriff of Edinburgh in 1264 [note by this
descent he has to be born 1230/34]
son of
Robert de Chaumont, seigneur de Saint Clair in Normandy d abt 1269 by his
wife Eleanor of Dreux d 1248/57
Eleanor was a great-granddaughter of Louis VI King of France
Is this descent sound? I'm just wondering why the son of a seigneur in
Normandy would be popping over to live in Scotland in this time period.
Will Johnson
Peter Stewart
<WJho...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.154.11623455...@rootsweb.com...
Plenty of them did, after land & power - SP gives this link, citing
'Genealogie of the Saintclaires of Rosslyn' by Richard Hay, written at the
end of the 17th century & published from his manuscript in 1835. I have
never looked into this. I understand tat it has been reprinted recently,
perhaps due to interest in Freemasonry (and/or the Rosslyn chapel from the
_Da Vinci Code_ farrago).
Peter Stewart
WJho...@aol.com
p_m_s...@msn.com writes:
<< I understand tat it has been reprinted recently,
perhaps due to interest in Freemasonry (and/or the Rosslyn chapel from the
_Da Vinci Code_ farrago). >>
Thanks Peter. I found a book at Google
Dictionnaire histoique de toutes les communes du department de l'Eure, par m
Charpillon <a href =
"http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC12769391&id=nuELE8SLxVMC&pg=PA328&lpg=PA328&dq=Guillaume+de+chaumont">pg 328 Gui</a>
which fell just a *tad* short of informing me that the link was sound.
I quoted part of it into my database:
""Robert II, fils de Robert, dit le Roux, et frere de Guilluame II, etait en
1208 seigneur de Guitry, en partie; en 1211, du consentement d'Edithe, sa
femme, il ceda aux religieux de Guitry ses pretentions sur la terre de la Vignole,
et confirme les dons de ses ancetres; il est la tige des seigneurs de
Saint-Clair; son sceau etait charge de 6 ourelles orisees d'un aigle eploye.""
What they give, didn't quite make the leap I needed, although it did confirm
part of the ancestry. So thank you for pointing out that SP confirms this
connection also.
The Dictionnaire does say that it was "Amaury dit Robert" Seigneur of Guitry
in 1208 who was the ancestor of the Saint Clairs of Rosslyn, so it must be he
who is the father of this Robert (d abt 1269).
The elder Robert is given in "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" with dates 1160-1232
which seems reasonable. Oddly enough, since it's one of their main points, they
do not make crystal-clear that it was Robert Junior (d abt 1269) who married
Eleanor Dreux and were the parents thus of that William Sinclair who came to
Scotland.
They should have hired me to edit it. Next time I'm at the library I will
have to check for this book by Robert Hay to see if he gives more details on
this part of the family. Since it's such an important link to establish without
doubt.
Will Johnson
John P. Ravilious
Dear Will, Peter, et al.,
I am not aware of any credible support for the claimed
connection of the Sinclairs of Rosslyn to the counts of Dreux.
The claim that the 'first' Sir William de St. Clair was a son of
Robert, son of Robert II of Dreux was mentioned (as I recall) in
Scots Peerage (VI:564), and has been oft repeated (see the online
Stirnet pedigree, 'Sinclair01' for example).
Even the problematic earlier part of Father Hay's work on the
Sinclairs [1] claims a Sinclair presence in Scotland commencing in
or about the reign of David I. Father Hay does, however, provide
some actual texts of Sinclair-related charters, and is worth
consulting. However, beware of interesting claims in that work as
well, including that (for example):
"Sir William Sinclare, second sone to Woldonius or Widernus,
in France, whose mother was daughter to Duke Richard [of
Normandy],....."
".... and he, by his liberality, winning preferment, married
Dorothe, as some say Agnas Dunbar, daughter to Patrick first
Earle of Marche, or as some writters have, fifth Earle of
Marche,...." [2]
Also, I'd recommend using several grains of salt when dealing
with "Holy Blood, Holy Grail". Perhaps an interesting read, but
so too is Prince Michael of Albany's reconstruction of the Stewart
lineage - if only to sharpen the senses (esp. that of smell).
Cheers,
John
[1] Father Richard Augustin Hay, Prior of St. Pieremont,
Genealogie of the Sainteclaires of Rosslyn (Edinburgh:
Thomas G. Stevenson, 1835).
Accessible online, via Googlebooks
[2] Ibid., p. 2
Roger LeBlanc
of Dreux's two marriages?
Roger LeBlanc
adechaumont
a message wich doesn't have direct relation with the initial
subject......This is a "HELP!" message.
I explain to you my "problem" . My name is Antoine DECHAUMONT and after
genealogy researchs it appears that my ancesters, "de chaumont" , where
countrymen in the 17th century , and whose origin village was Villers
en vexin , a village which is at 3 kilometers of GUITRY !! (I find
number of generations in this part of vexin - a part of my family is
still in this canton , between Guitry, les Andelys, Etrepagny, Saint
clair sur epte, etc...)
The big question for us is : is it possible that our family could be a
"minor" branch of CHAUMONT-GUITRY ? is it possible that such a great
familly had a minor branch which could have staid in this region and
became "roturiers" ??? the registers begin in 1650 and I don't know
what to do to go up to try to find a link to the chaumont-guitry.
Do you have any advice that you could give to me for my research ? do
you think a link is possible or that it is absolutely impossible ?
thank you and sorry for this "out of subject message"...
Best Regards
Antoine DECHAUMONT
WJho...@aol.com a écrit :
Dora Smith
You leave out crucial details. What locations are attached to this family
and events? England? France? Quebec?
--
Yours,
Dora Smith
Austin, TX
tigge...@yahoo.com
"adechaumont" <adech...@infonie.fr> wrote in message
news:1166956019....@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...
Dora Smith
dit name of DeChaumont, which means that you're trying to get it backwards.
Dit names differentiated lines of a family. Dechaumont dit Guitry would
mean a line of the Dechaumont family that took the name Guitry.
Dit names could also be used to differentiate between unrelated families
with the same last name. They had other uses as well, such as in the
military. In time, as they were on their way out, they were often
abbreviated - the word dit became a dash.
The dash also warns you to look out - once people stopped sticking to form
they were also likely to confuse the names. The true name could be Guitry
dit DeChaumont.
I wouldn't just assume any of this without more information.
Now, if it was in Quebec, all of the genealogy is published, you just have
to keep searching under possible names, keeping in mind that the people also
couldn't spell and the Quebec dialect of French underwent rapid change. Or
formation. THe people who came to Quebec didn't just speak one dialect.
Even in France, the Catholic Church may have preserved records, and if the
family were well enough off there could also be wills.
If it was in England, good lluck, but I'm betting Villers en vexin and
Guitry were not in England. Even though you never say so.
--
Yours,
Dora Smith
Austin, TX
tigge...@yahoo.com
"adechaumont" <adech...@infonie.fr> wrote in message
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