Diana Spencer, Princess of Wales and her Brideoak ascent
wjhonson
bone and show another one. A quite interesting one, that Leo is
missing.
Here on Leo's great web site
http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00089004&tree=LEO
http://www.genealogics.org/pedigree.php?personID=I00089004&tree=LEO
we see that Anne Woodford who married Peter Thellusson
Her grandfather here is given as John Brideoak
with nothing further
The trick to this one is realizing that his daughter Mary was not only
*his* co-heiress, but she was also the co-heiress of her uncle Ralph
Brideoke and Ralph helpfully states that his father was the Bishop of
Chichester.
We then find them in Alumni Oxensis (or something like that)
and get the dates
John Brideoak
born Isleworth, Berks; matric Trinity College 19 May 1681 age 15
while his brother Ralph
born Isleworth, Berks; matric Trinity College 19 May 1681 age 16
Their father
Ralph Brideoke, Bishop of /Chichester/ 1675-1678
matric 9 Dec 1631 age 16
buried at St George's, Windsor
son of
Richard /Brideoake/ of Cheetham Hill, co Lancs
Will Johnson
wjhonson
ancestry was going to be a dead-end....
"He married Mary Saltonstall, the daughter of Sir Richard Saltonstall"
Ears? Perking up? I thought so.
http://books.google.com/books?id=NyoJAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA313&lpg=PA313&dq=briddock+chichester+bishop&source=web&ots=ZpT1DFWnX6&sig=1qEencFZ6-0AeLyZAQzoaayUmbQ&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=7&ct=result
DNB, "Brideoake, Ralph (1613-1678)"
Will Johnson
jhigg...@yahoo.com
> Oh silly me. Here I thought the Bishop "of lowly birth" in Diana's
> ancestry was going to be a dead-end....
>
> "He married Mary Saltonstall, the daughter of Sir Richard Saltonstall"
>
> Ears? Perking up? I thought so.
>
> DNB, "Brideoake, Ralph (1613-1678)"
>
> Will Johnson
Since you're using outdated sources like the old DNB, you should be
aware that the new ODNB makes a slight change to the parentage of
Bishop Ralph Brideoak, indicating that his mother was Cicely Boardman,
not Cicely Booth of Lancashire as in the old DNB. (Possibly the
Bishop or his family were engaged in some creative genealogy, trying
to link to the well-known Booth family)
And have you figured out WHICH Sir Richard Saltonstall was the father-
in-law of the Bishop? This one could be easier than wading through
the Townshends.... :-) [Hint: look at Richard K. Evans' recent book
on the ancestry of Princess Diana]
WJho...@aol.com
In a message dated 7/11/2008 10:10:16 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
jhigg...@yahoo.com writes:
And have you figured out WHICH Sir Richard Saltonstall was the father-
in-law of the Bishop? This one could be easier than wading through
the Townshends.... :-) [Hint: look at Richard K. Evans' recent book
on the ancestry of Princess Diana]
Silly! You know I don't actually consult works for which I must PAY
(Paying is evil, unless someone is paying me)
**************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music
scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com!
(http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112)
jhigg...@yahoo.com
> In a message dated 7/11/2008 10:10:16 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
>
>
> And have you figured out WHICH Sir Richard Saltonstall was the father-
> in-law of the Bishop? This one could be easier than wading through
> the Townshends.... :-) [Hint: look at Richard K. Evans' recent book
> on the ancestry of Princess Diana]
>
> Silly! You know I don't actually consult works for which I must PAY
> (Paying is evil, unless someone is paying me)
>
> **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music
> scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com!
> (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112)
Try inter-library loan. Oh, I forgot....you don't believe in
libraries either....
wjhonson
is one who could be this Bishop baptised on 31 Jan 1612/3 to a father
Richard
There was apparently more than one Richard Briddock having children
baptised there at the same time. I tried to extract the baptisms but
a few of them run into each other in ways that tell me I'm dealing
with at least two different families.
As far as his wife "Mary Saltonstall daughter of Sir Richard", I
looked again and it specifies in the Bishops DNB entry that he was Sir
Richard Saltonstall of Okenden, co Essex, which helps a bit.
Mary could not be a daughter of the Lord Mayor because he had died 17
Mar 1600/01 "aged 80". His eldest son Gilbert d.v.p. and apparently
s.p. and it seems likely that the Lord Mayor's son also called Sir
Richard Saltonstall was his father's heir-male. One source stating
that this Sir Richard died 11 Dec 1609 but another stating that he
died in 1618.
The source stating that he died in 1609 states that he left an heir
also named Sir Richard Saltonstall who was then 23 years old. There
is one who could fit this, who was baptised on 14 Nov 1585 at Halifax,
Yorkshire.
Richard the heir, whenever he was baptised is supposed to have come
into the property and died 1649 leaving an heir John who left Philip
who left another Philip and then apparently a Philippa took the
property to another family.
So I would hazard that the father of Mary (Saltonstall) the wife of
Ralph Briddock the Bishop must be a daughter of this Sir Richard who
died in 1649.
Will Johnson
jhigg...@yahoo.com
You've stepped into a tangle of at least four Richard Saltonstalls who
were more or less contemporaneous. You're correct that the Sir
Richard who was the father of Mary the wife of Bishop Ralph Brideoake
was Sir Richard the Lord Mayor. In this case the younger Sir Richard
was the one who d. 1619 (not 1609), who is distinct from a different
Sir Richard (loosely his cousin - I don't have the specifics at hand)
who was the one who was baptized in 1584 (and emigrated to New
England, at least for a while). The latter Sir Richard is covered,
inter alia, in RPA, but both of the two last-mentioned Sir Richards
married wives of royal descent.
I imagine you should be able to find considerable information on this
family in NEHGR since the last Saltonstall family was quite prominent
in New England well into the 20th century (e.g, Sen Leverett
Saltonstall, in the Senate until 1966).
wjhonson
> You're correct that the Sir
> Richard who was the father of Mary the wife of Bishop Ralph Brideoake
> was Sir Richard the Lord Mayor. In this case the younger Sir Richard
> was the one who d. 1619 (not 1609), who is distinct from a different
> Sir Richard (loosely his cousin - I don't have the specifics at hand)
> who was the one who was baptized in 1584 (and emigrated to New
> England, at least for a while). The latter Sir Richard is covered,
> inter alia, in RPA, but both of the two last-mentioned Sir Richards
> married wives of royal descent.
----------------
I think you must mean that the "Sir Richard who was the father of Mary
the wife of Bishop Ralph Brideoake was NOT Sir Richard the Lord
Mayor..."
Mary was having children in the 1660s based on the ages at which they
matric, and yet the Lord Mayor had died in 1601/2 so he could not be
her father.
Will Johnson
jhigg...@yahoo.com
Yes, I did mess this up pretty badly....too many Richard Saltonstalls.
My statement should have read: "the Sir Richard who was the father of
Mary the wife of Bishop Ralph Brideoake was THE GRANDSON of Sir
Richard the Lord Mayor". If I've got it right, the sequence should
be:
Sir Richard, Lord Mayor (d. 1600/1); m. Susannah Poyntz
Sir Richard of South Ockenden (d. 1619); m. Jane Bernard
Sir Richard of South Ockenden (d. 1649/50); m. (2) Mary Parker
Mary; m. Bishop Ralph Brideoake
The other two Richards I previously mentioned were son and grandson
of Samuel, the brother of the Lord Mayor. For their details see,
inter alia, RPA/PA3 636.
Sorry for the confusion....
wjhonson
>
> - Show quoted text -
Well look at this.
In 1576 George's son Edward Tyrell sold the estate to (Sir) Richard
Saltonstall, a London merchant and later lord mayor. (fn. 71) From Sir
Richard (d. 1601) the manor descended in the direct male line for five
generations: to Richard (d. 1618), Richard (d. 1649), John (d. 1658),
Philip (d. 1668) and Philip Saltonstall (d. 1694). (fn. 72) On the
death of the last-named Philip the manor descended to his
granddaughter, Philippa Saltonstall, who married John Goodere, younger
son of John Goodere of Claybury in Barking. (fn. 73)
From: 'Parishes: South Ockendon', A History of the County of Essex:
Volume 7 (1978), pp. 117-126. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=42825.
Date accessed: 14 July 2008.
Will Johnson