royal Bruce y dna
M.Sjostrom
a descendant of Laurence Bruce, Sheriff of Shetland islands, has tested his y dna sample:
BRUCE 13 25 14 10 11 15 12 12 13 14 13 30
R1b; Scottish Mainland - (France); The surname Bruce is Norman, from Brix near Cherborug in Normandy. Bobert de Brus apparently came over to England .... and his some descendant ....to Scotland. One of the most prominent familes of Scotland (along with their kin the Stewarts) and were one time Kings of Scotland. Annandale, Stirling, and Clackmannan were family strongholds. It appears that the first of the family to settle in Shetland was Laurence Bruce, born (about 1540) Cultmalinde, Perth, Scotland, arrived in Shetland in 1571, and died August 1617, Muness Castle, Unst but buried inside the church at Sandwick. Laurence was the son of Sir Robert Bruce and Euphame Elphinstone (who is also the mother of the Stewarts of Shetland by her lover James V of Scotland);
In theYHRD database there is only one match at 9 markers in all Europe (from Rostock, Germany), making this a very rare signature. There are no matches in the FTDNA customer database. In the Haplogroup database, the few matches are scattered from Italy to Austria - as a matter of fact these are the only non-Shetland one mutation step matches. However what is exceedingly significant is that the participant matches 11/12 one of the members of the Bruce surname study. (Which individual) has an unbroken lineage back to one the ancestors of the famous Robert de Brus. It appears likely that the ancestor in common of the two men is the above Sir Robert Bruce who died in 1483; The evidence is clear that the Bruce family of Shetland carries the DNA signature of the ancient Norman Royal de Brus lineage.
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sheriff Laurence Bruce, foud of Shetland, was an agnatic descendant (via Clackmannan Bruces) of Edward Bruce, yunger brother of king Robert the Bruce
John P. Ravilious
Sunday, 8 November, 2009
Dear 'M',
You wrote in part, concerning this Laurence Bruce:
" (Which individual) has an unbroken lineage back to one the
ancestors of the famous Robert de Brus. It appears likely that the
ancestor in common of the two men is the above Sir Robert Bruce who
died in 1483; The evidence is clear that the Bruce family of Shetland
carries the DNA signature of the ancient Norman Royal de Brus
lineage.
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sheriff Laurence Bruce, foud of Shetland, was an agnatic descendant
(via Clackmannan Bruces) of Edward Bruce, yunger brother of king
Robert the Bruce "
As a descendant of the Bruces of Clackmannan (via Bruce of Airth)
I would be interested if this descent from 'the ancient Norman Royal
de Brus' family could be proved, but no evidence is at hand to support
this. The account in Scots Peerage for the family of Bruce, Earls of
Elgin and Ailesbury discusses the matter at some length, including the
theory that the earliest Bruce of Clackmannan (Thomas) was a natural
son of Edward Bruce (k. at Dundalk, 1318) but concludes, "there is no
evidence to support it" [SP III:466-7].
There was a relationship: Sir Robert de Brus (Bruce) of
Clackmannan had a charter of the lands and barony of Clackmannan dated
at Perth, 9 Dec 1359 in which King David II addressed him as 'dilectus
consanguineus noster' [SP III:467-8, citing RMS fol. vol. 38, 61].
Sir Robert could be descended from Edward Bruce; also possibly from
John de Brus, younger son of Sir Robert de Brus 'the Competitor' (d.
1295). This does not exhaust the number of possibilities of
relationship between David II and Sir Robert Bruce of Clackmannan - a
female relationship could also be the source.
Cheers,
John
M.Sjostrom
I am too trusting on the claim that the Clackmannan Bruces do descend in male line from king Robert's brother.
Either they do and then this Y DNA represents the king's y dna;
or they do not and this Y DNA represents only the Clackmannan lineage's.
I gather there are no other agnatic lines of the Bruce identified to be documented agnates of the king. So, testing against persons living today will not be possible.
But, in case it'd be possible to test the Y DNA of those deceased royals, king Robert, king David, or their brothers, uncles, or so, then this could be ascertained as far as Y DNA testing is proof enough.
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All that said, I think that some people would gladly like to know what the Clackmannan Y DNA 'signature' looks like.