Roger Kynaston, husband of Elizabeth (Cobham) le Strange
Douglas Richardson
Lord Strange, of Knockin, co. Salop, died 1449) married (2nd) a
Roger Kynaston. Can anyone tell me anything about Roger
Kynaston?
Best always, Douglas Richardson
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
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Dreama
"Plantagenet Ancestry", p. 169, Item 6 Lloyd:
"She (Elizabeth Grey) was married for the second time in 1465 to Roger
Kynaston, Knt., of Middle, co. Salop, Constable of Harlech Castle, Sheriff
of Shropshire, son of Gruffudd ap John Kynaston, of Stokes, co. Salop, by
Margred ferch John Hord.... He was born about 1430, and had been married
previously to Elizabeth Cobham.... Roger and Elizabeth Grey had two sons and
six daughters. Sir Roger Kynaston died in 1495/6."
REF: H.S.P. 29:105, 295, 459 (1889) (1623 Vis. Salop) ("Rogerus ...4
filius Griffini Kynaston de Stokkes in com. Salop senescallus de Ellesmere
(by) Mararetta fil. et haeres Johannis Hoord de Walford in com. Salop");
Trans. Shrop. Arch. Soc. (2nd ser.) 6:214 (1894) ("Roger was a personage of
great renown in the troublous times in which he lived. He was a zealous
partisan of the House of York, and at the Battle of Bloreheath, 23rd
September, 1459, he slew the Lancastrian leader, Lord Audley, and assumed
his arms (ermine, a chevron, gules) which are quartered ever since by the
Kynaston family"); Bartrum (1968) 1:129, 131 (Bleddyn ap Cynfyn 38 A1 & A3);
Evans (1984), p. 7.
William Addams Reitwiesner
>Elizabeth Cobham, died 1453, widow of Richard le Strange [7th
>Lord Strange, of Knockin, co. Salop, died 1449) married (2nd) a
>Roger Kynaston. Can anyone tell me anything about Roger
>Kynaston?
See Bartrum's *Welsh Genealogies AD 1400-1500*, p. 131 (table Bl. ap C. 38
A3). Sir Roger Kynaston of Hordley was Sheriff of Shropshire in 1461 and
1470, and died 1495/6. Sir Roger was a son, apparently a younger son, of
Gruffudd ap John Kynaston by Margred, daughter of John Hoord.
Sir Roger married twice. His first wife was Elizabeth, daughter of Henry
Grey, Count of Tankerville, by whom he had one son, Sir Thomas Kynaston of
Hordley. The Elizabeth you're referring to was Sir Roger's second wife, by
whom he had the following children (order unimportant):
Margred m. Richard ap Gruffudd Hanmer
Ermin m. John ap John Eutun
Mary m(a) Hywel ap Jenkin
m(b) Sir Rhys ap Thomas
Jane m(1) Thomas Corbet of Leigh
m(2) Ieuan Llwyd
m(3) Edward Sackville
Jane m. Roger Thornes
Lancelot Kynaston
Richard Kynaston
Oliver Kynaston
Sir Hymphrey Kynaston of Morton
m1. Margret ferch William
m2. Elsbeth ferch Maredudd
= Elsbeth ferch Edward
Yes, there were two different daughters named Jane.
Hope this helps.
William Addams Reitwiesner
wr...@erols.com
"Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc."
U...@aol.com
writes:
Faris in his 1st volume [p.169] lists Humphrey, Jane [who m. Roger Thornes],
and Mary as children of Roger & Elizabeth Grey. Is this in error?
Always optimistic--Dave
William Addams Reitwiesner
According to Bartrum's *Welsh Genealogies AD 1400-1500*, p. 131 (table Bl.
ap C. 38 A3), yes, it is in error. Then again, Faris could be right and
Bartrum wrong -- I don't know which is right, but they're at odds with each
other.
Stewart Baldwin
Reitwiesner) wrote:
>Douglas Richardson <royalances...@msn.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Elizabeth Cobham, died 1453, widow of Richard le Strange [7th
>>Lord Strange, of Knockin, co. Salop, died 1449) married (2nd) a
>>Roger Kynaston. Can anyone tell me anything about Roger
>>Kynaston?
>
The 1623 Visitation of Shropshire (Publications of the Harleian
Society, vol. 29, 1889) has almost completely opposite information
regarding which children were by which wife. According to that,
Roger's heir Thomas Kynaston was by Elizabeth Cobham, and all of the
other children (with a few differences in the list) were by Elizabeth
Grey. I don't know which is true, as I have never researched the
family myself, but deciding which children were by which wife is very
important because Elizabeth Grey was a descendant of king Henry IV. I
remember reading somewhere (I don't recall the exact reference) that
the marriage between Roger Kynaston and Elizabeth Grey was an
important "gateway" to royalty, because there were many descendants of
this marriage in the minor gentry. Gary Boyd Roberts, in his Royal
Descents of 500 Immigrants, lists several lines from the Kynaston-Grey
marriage, none of them through Thomas, so if the information from
Bartrum is correct, all of these lines would have to be removed.
Stewart Baldwin
William Addams Reitwiesner
This, plus Dave's earlier comment, caused me to go back and take a closer
look at Bartrum's page (the original, and not the photocopy I was using),
which leads me to announce a major ooops on my part. Elizabeth Cobham was
the *first* wife of Sir Roger, and mother of only Sir Thomas, and Elizabeth
Grey was Sir Roger's *second* wife, and mother of all his other children.
You, and Bartrum, were right, and I misread Bartrum.
I can explain what led me to the misreading, but that's not important. The
error is mine. Sorry, folks.
ImmuneNation
pgbrewer @swbell.net
Lorraine M Money
>the *first* wife of Sir Roger, and mother of only Sir Thomas, and Elizabeth
>Grey was Sir Roger's *second* wife, and mother of all his other children.
>You, and Bartrum, were right, and I misread Bartrum.
Does Elizabeth Cobham have any connection to Joan 4th Baroness COBHAM
daughter of Sir John de la POLE and Joan Cobham (daughter of John 3rd
Baron Cobham), we know that Joan (4th Bss) married Reynold BRAYBROOKE.
With kind regards
Lorraine