Re: Origins of the Despenser: Geoffrey, father of Thomas (CE Wood) - Re: GEN-MEDIEVAL Digest, Vol 8, Issue 497

[pooh...@aol.com]

From:

Mark Downen <mrdo...@gmail.com>



To:

GEN-ME...@rootsweb.com



Cc:

tyran...@gmail.com



Subject:

Re: Origins of the Despenser: Geoffrey, father of Thomas



Date:

Fri, 17 May 2013 07:33:07 -0700




John, Thanks for your summary of the latest research on le Despenser.

Does anyone know whether the Hugh le Despenser in John's pedigree is
the same Hugh le Despenser who married Aline de Basset, daughter of
Phillip de Basset?



Thursday, May 16, 2013, 9:21:32 PM, you wrote:

> On Saturday, January 14, 2006 12:43:47 AM UTC+11, John P. Ravilious wrote:
>> Thursday, 12 January, 2006
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello All,
>>
>> Following on Clive West's kind contribution of last week, I was
>> able to review a copy of Nichol's History of Leicester. In
>> particular, I was interested to see what was stated there, given
>> Clive's notation of several charters of Thomas le Despenser,
>> including one which stated (in translation), "I Thomas Dispensator,
>> son of Geoffrey (Galfridus) Dispensator, have given and confirmed
>> ten bovates in land at Burton with the consent of Asketill de
>> Berges, my lord of the same land."
>>
>> I am very pleased to confirm Clive's statements en toto. There
>> are several charters dealing with the same 10 bovates in Burton,
>> including one in particular, titled " Thomas Dispensator. (14.b.)
>> " by Nichols, which states in part,
>>
>> " ... Thomas Dispensator, filius Gaufridi Dispensatoris,
>> salutem........ x bovatas terre, cum omnibus pertinentiis
>> suis, in campo de Burtona, concessu Asketilli de Berges
>> domini mei de eadem terra,... " [1]
>>
>> The full text of one of the charters of Thomas, involving the
>> confirmation of another gift of his father Geoffrey, is given
>> below [2], which likewise makes it quite clear that Thomas'
>> father was Geoffrey le Despenser, and not his brother Hugh as most
>> recently conjectured. Based upon prior research (most of which
>> has been posted to prior SGM threads), this is Geoffrey le
>> Despenser, brother of Ivo de Alspath (sometime constable of
>> Coventry castle for Earl Ranulf of Chester) [3].
>>
>> Perhaps not as important as proving this relationship, the
>> existence of these charters is most interesting: it is amazing to
>> Clive and myself (and likely others) that these details had not
>> been more widely published. The edition of the Calendar of the
>> Charter Rolls provided an abstract of Garendon charters in 1912,
>> including one for the grant by Thomas le Despenser of the same 10
>> bovates in Burton, taken from the same source as that used by
>> Nichols (BL Lansdowne MS 415), but no notice of parentage was
>> made [4]. More recently, Geoffrey Barraclough and David Postles
>> have used the same source used by Nichols in the Garendon
>> appendix to his work [5]. The edition of Monasticon Anglicanum
>> now available online gives perhaps a sense of how this came about:
>>
>>
>> ' As Mr. Nichols has been equally copious in his abstract
>> and analysis of this Register also, no further account
>> of it will be needed here. " [6]
>>
>>
>> In addition to the matter of Thomas le Despenser's paternity,
>> one of the charters cited also involves Thomas' wife, and a son
>> Geoffrey. As Clive had advised, this charter renders her name as
>> 'Recuare', and evidences that Thomas had a son Geoffrey who
>> predeceased him - evidently a younger son later being named
>> Geoffrey in his stead:
>>
>>
>> ' Tomas Dispensator. (4.b.)
>>
>> Sciatis me dedisse, concessione & bona voluntate uxoris
>> mee Recuare & heredum meorum & hac carta mea confirmasse, Deo et
>> ecclesie Sanct Marie de Gerondonia, et monachis....etc etc..
>> x bovatas terra cum omnibus pertinentiis suis in campo de Burton
>> concesssu Asketilli de Berges domini mei de eadem terra, liberas
>> et quitas ab omni terreno servicio et consuetudine mihi &
>> heredibus meis pertinente, salvo forensi servicio; & excepto
>> quod annuatim dabunt mihi & heredibus meis 2 solidus ad festum
>> Sancte Crucis post Pascham. Preterea dedi eisdem monachis
>> ....etc.....pro salute anime mee & patris & matris mee, &
>> precipue pro anima filii mei Gaufridi 1111 solidos quos pro
>> predicta terra ......etc.... Ut inde habeat annuatim conventus
>> pitanciam in die anniversario eiusdem fillii mei, hoc est
>> crastino Nativitatis Sanct Marie. ........etc etc......
>> Hiis testibus; Roberto comite Legrecestrie, Petronilla
>> comitissa. ' [7]
>>
>>
>>
>> I will post a corrected pedigree (with documentation) of the
>> Despenser descent to the list in short order. The descent from
>> NN (possibly William) de Queniborough now appears to be as follows:
>>
>>
>> NN de Queniborough
>> of Queniborough and Burton on the Wolds, co. Leics.
>> [possibly 'Willelmus' who held lands in Stache and Queniborough,
>> Leics. of Geoffrey de la Guerche at Domesday Book, in 1086 ]
>> I
>> _____I_________________________________________
>> I I I I
>> NN, a daughter Thurstan de Radulf de Herbert de
>> = Hugh de Berges Queniborough Queniborough Queniborough
>> I
>> I
>> Ansketil de Berges
>> of Burton on the Wolds, co. Leics.
>> = Rohese
>> ____I_____________________________________________
>> I I I
>> Hugh de Berges Geoffrey le Despenser Ivo de Alspath
>> (de Prestwold) 'dispensator' constable of
>> of Burton on the I Coventry
>> Wolds, co. Leics. I________________
>> I ______________I________
>> I I I
>> Ansketil de Prestwold Thomas 'dispensator' Elias
>> (als 'de Berges') of of Burton on the Wolds of Arnesby
>> Burton and Prestwold d. 1207 and
>> = Dionisia = 'Recuare' Loughborough
>> I I____________
>> ___I________ ________________I_______________
>> I I I I I I
>> Thomas Elias de Geoffrey 'I' Hugh le Thomas I
>> heir; Prestwold dvp bef Despenser I
>> d.v.p. = Sibilla 1207 d. ca. 1238 I
>> _________I
>> ___________________________________I__
>> I I I I
>> Rohese Henry Robert Geoffrey 'II'
>> = Stephen de of Martley
>> Segrave
>> (d. 1241)
>>
>>
>> Again, many thanks to Clive for his magnificent find, and
>> sharing this with the list.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> John *
>>
>>
>>
>> NOTES
>>
>> [1] John Nichols, The History and Antiquities of the County of
>> Leicester (London: Printed by and for J. Nichols), Vol. III
>> part 2 (1804), p. 817.
>>
>>
>> [2] Ibid., p. 815:
>>
>> ' Tomas Dispensator. (12.a.)
>>
>> Omnibus filius sancte matris ecclesiae Tomas Dispensator,
>> filius Gaufridi Dispensatoris, salutem. Sciatis me concessise &
>> confirmasse donationem patris mei, quam fecit monachis de
>> Geraldonia[m], videlicet, de tota[m] terra[m] quam reclamavit in
>> Stantona[m]. Et sicut ille prefatam donationem eoram monachis &
>> multis aliis festibus super altare posuit, sic & ego manu mea[m]
>> eandem donationem super altare Dei obtuli & concessi, ut monachi
>> eam teneant libere & quiete a me, & a cunctis heredibus meis, in
>> perpetuam elemosinam. Semitam quoque in campo eorum, per quam
>> ego & homines mei incedere solebamus, que erat ad gravamen eorum,
>> & ad detrimentum segetum, quietam omnino concessi.
>> Hii fuerunt testes; Willielmus abbas Legrecestrie, Hugo
>> Barre, Willielmus Burdet, Willielmus de Widevill, Gaufridus
>> filius Algot, Willielmus de Rudevill, Gillebertus filius Picot,
>> Gillebertus de Segrave, Radulphus Fridei, Ricardus filius
>> Nicholai, Gaufridus Ostianus, Gilbertus Forestarius, Asketillus
>> de Torp, Johannes Constantin, Gaufridus de Curci, Ranulphus
>> Leblud. '
>>
>>
>> [3] cf. threads including <Origins of the Despensers> (Dec 2002-
>> Jan 2003), <The Family of Ivo de Alspath (a Despenser
>> link ?)> (Dec 2002) and <Origins of the Despensers (redux)>
>> (Dec 2003), among others.
>>
>>
>> [4] Calendar of the Charter Rolls, preserved in the Public Record
>> Office (London, 1912), IV:475, grants confirmed by the king
>> 12 July 1340, along with a royal charter dated 13 December 4
>> Edward III, at the request of Walter, abbot of Garendon.
>> The list of grants runs through pp. 472-481.
>>
>>
>> [5] In "Medieval Palaeography: Transcriptions and Translations
>> of Charters," Dr. David A. Postles, University of Leicester,
>> "http://www.le.ac.uk/elh/pot/char2.html", cites extract from
>> twelfth-century charters from the cartulary of Garendon
>> Abbey. Geoffrey Barraclough's work on the Charters of the
>> Anglo-Norman Earls of Chester likewise used this collection
>> concerning Ivo de Alspath and others.
>>
>>
>> [6] Sir William Dugdale, Monasticon Anglicanum (London: Harding
>> & Lepard; and Longman Rees Green), V:328-9. This can be
>> viewed at
>>
>> http://monasticmatrix.usc.edu/bibliographia/index.php?function=detail&id=2659
>>
>>
>> [7] Nichols, ibid., Vol. III, Part 2, pp. 810-811. Text
>> provided by Clive West.
>>
>>
>> * John P. Ravilious

> Thank You, John

> For giving me some information to trace my le Despenser ancestors
> back a few more generations. Not so obviously Norman-French as I had thought.

> R.M. O'Donnell




Best regards,
Mark mailto:mrdo...@gmail.com