Master
Leo
Was Master also used for the heirs of Lairds?
With many thanks,
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
M.Sjostrom
In my experience, I have seen that 'Master' was used without clear regulations still in 1500s and so - and naturally even more unregulatedly in earlier centuries.
This comes in part from observations that even in cases where eldest son was the heir of a scots peerage, and had legitimate heirs of his own, still some of his younger brothers were occasionally in usage (or parlance) also 'Master' of the same.
So, I guess, Master of a Peerage in those earlier centuries was not that formal, but was used much like 'young lord' (more or less even today, young men of gentlefolk are 'Master' firstname), whether it was eldest or younger son of a (high) noble.
So, the 'Master of' does not unambiguously mean 'heir of peerage' in some earlier centuries, and some caution should therefore be known.
the question thusly is also: what was the lowest class where sons were styled as 'Master' in centuries which are in question.
John P. Ravilious
Monday, 9 November, 2009
Dear Leo,
This was the case, certainly in the 17th century and (I presume)
for some time before and after.
The one example I note, William Cuninghame/Cunningham of
Craigends styled himself Master of Craigends during the lifetime of
his father Alexander, laird of Craigends; specifically, in 1676 (his
father died in 1690). A link to his Diary and Expenditure Book
(edited by James Dodds, D.D. for the Scottish History Society, 1887)
is given below.
Cheers,
John
Alex Maxwell Findlater
up was in the C19 colloquial sense of "boss". I have not found Master
used for anyone else but the heir of the peerage. When the usage
started I don't know, or at least haven't registered, but I would
suggest soon after 1435 when the idea of greater and lesser barons was
first enacted in Parliament. It is certainly current in the latter
part of the C15. The only occasion I know of when a laird's son was
called Master was Sir James Hamilton of Avondale, who was called
Master of Avondale in about the 1590s because he pretended to the
peerage which it is believed was created for his great grandfather Sir
James Hamilton of Finnart just before his fall from power. In a sense
this is the exception which proves the rule!
James Hogg
There are many dated quotations at sense no. 20 of "maister" in
the Dictionary of the Scots Language:
http://www.dsl.ac.uk/dsl/
Click on DOST 5. maister n.
--
James
Renia
I've seen it used for 16th century Yorkshire gentry as well.
James Hogg
Specifically for the heir apparent to the estate?
--
James
Renia
Non-specific. A 1546 will states: I gyff to my son the fermhold that I
have payd my goodes for to maister Rychard Segysweyke for xxi years
I haven't researched the Sedgewicks, so I don't know if Richard was heir.
Rs...@cs.com
Alex Maxwell Findlater
>
> There are many dated quotations at sense no. 20 of "maister" in
> the Dictionary of the Scots Language:http://www.dsl.ac.uk/dsl/
>
> Click on DOST 5. maister n.
>
> --
> James
I had understood that the question was specifically about the use of
the title Master of ....., as in Master of Angus. Of course the word
master is used in any number of different usages, all with slightly
different meanings. In the other case quoted: "I gyff to my son the
fermhold that I have payd my goodes for to maister Rychard Segysweyke
for xxi years" Master Richard Sedgwick would sugget that he was a
graduate, at that period. Later of course it became a more general
title to denote respect, from which we get "mister". Of course now
all men are "misters"!
In the peerage context the Master of Angus is the heir of the Earl of
Angus. Of course now we do not use Master for the heirs of earls and
higher as they all use subsidiary peerage titles, but for Viscounts
and Lords of Parliament, the expression is still Master of Belhaven,
Master of Lovat or Master of Elibank.
James Hogg
I am perfectly aware that "master" has any number of different
uses. That's why I pointed to sense no. 20 in the dictionary, the
specific sense that Leo raised in his question.
--
James
Renia
>> There are many dated quotations at sense no. 20 of "maister" in
>> the Dictionary of the Scots Language:http://www.dsl.ac.uk/dsl/
>>
>> Click on DOST 5. maister n.
>>
>> --
>> James
>
> I had understood that the question was specifically about the use of
> the title Master of ....., as in Master of Angus. Of course the word
> master is used in any number of different usages, all with slightly
> different meanings. In the other case quoted: "I gyff to my son the
> fermhold that I have payd my goodes for to maister Rychard Segysweyke
> for xxi years" Master Richard Sedgwick would sugget that he was a
> graduate, at that period. Later of course it became a more general
> title to denote respect, from which we get "mister". Of course now
> all men are "misters"!
But sons are masters.
I cited the case to illustrate how the term "Master" was used just south
of the border, wondering if the term was not specifically Scottish, but
northern. Maister is the Scottish spelling of Master, according to
Lloyd's Encyclopaedic Dictionary (1893).
I don't know why you suggest Richard Sedgewick was a graduate, from this
quote.
Alex Maxwell Findlater
for a graduate.
Alex Maxwell Findlater
>
> - Show quoted text -
Point taken. :-)
James Hogg
Renia
> Because at this period "Master", ie "Magister", was the normal address
> for a graduate.
Unlikely that one Yorkshire farmer would pay another Yorkshire farmer in
the capacity of university graduate. More likely Maister Sedgewick was a
son of a local farmer of substance.
Ginny Wagner
notes.
In Sketches of St. Albans:
Page 149, Dawn of the Reformation: "William Grey (1426-31) was advanced to
London from the Deanery of York. He is said to have founded a cell at
Theale, with a Master and four Cannons."
>From a write up on St. Albans School:
"The beauty of the School's historic buildings and its proximity to and
association with the Abbey give an immediate indication of its long history.
Indeed the year 948 has been taken as the likeliest date of its first
foundation by Abbot Wulsin. By 1100 the School had built for itself such a
high reputation, that the renowned Norman scholar, Geoffrey de Gorham,
applied for the post of Master. In fact he was later to become Abbot of St
Albans and the School then remained under the control of the Abbot until the
dissolution of the monasteries in 1539."
>From the Calendar of Patent Rolls:
Page 430, year 1349:
Nov. 28. Licence for Master Nicholas de Sandwico to enfeoff William de
Clynton
Westminster, earl of Huntingdon, of the manors of Folkstan, co. Kent, and
Morton, co Essex, and the advowson of the church of Rolvyngdenne, co. Kent,
held
in chief as is said, and for the earl to re-grant the same to ,hra ^for
life,
with remainder to John de Sandwico, brother of the same Nicholas,, and
the heirs of his body and reversion to the earl and his heirs. By p.s.
I offer these without comment, hoping someone more educated in medieval
history will elucidate.
Ginny Wagner