Barack's Lungvilliers ascent
wjhonson
all descent from the marriage of Margaret de Lungvilliers to Geoffrey
de Neville of Hornby Castle.
You can see, on Leo's great web site here
http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00385259&tree=LEO
what he shows for Margaret.
We can extend this ascent several more generations
Margaret's father Sir John de Lungvilliers was himself the heir of his
own father and "aged 24" 1254.
Sir John's father was also Sir John de Lungvilliers who has an IPM 5
Nov 1254 in which his son John is his heir, and this Sir John Senior
left a widow Elena who a few months later, as his widow is making a
claim for land in Horneby and Mellyng, co Lanc. I don't know who she
is.
Sir John de Lungvilliers, senior was the son of Eudo de Lungvilliers,
by his wife Clemence de Montbegon. Clemence was co-heiress of her
brother Roger de Montbegon, and they were both children of Thomas de
Montbegon of Horneby, co Lanc.
Will Johnson
John P. Ravilious
> Diana, Sarah Ferguson, and Barack are all cousins in part because they
> all descent from the marriage of Margaret de Lungvilliers to Geoffrey
> de Neville of Hornby Castle.
>
>
> what he shows for Margaret.
>
> We can extend this ascent several more generations
>
> Margaret's father Sir John de Lungvilliers was himself the heir of his
> own father and "aged 24" 1254.
>
> Sir John's father was also Sir John de Lungvilliers who has an IPM 5
> Nov 1254 in which his son John is his heir, and this Sir John Senior
> left a widow Elena who a few months later, as his widow is making a
> claim for land in Horneby and Mellyng, co Lanc. I don't know who she
> is.
>
> Sir John de Lungvilliers, senior was the son of Eudo de Lungvilliers,
> by his wife Clemence de Montbegon. Clemence was co-heiress of her
> brother Roger de Montbegon, and they were both children of Thomas de
> Montbegon of Horneby, co Lanc.
>
> Will Johnson
Friday, 20 November, 2009
Dear Will,
Comments and observations interspersed.
You wrote:
Margaret's father Sir John de Lungvilliers was himself the heir of
his
own father and "aged 24" 1254.
Sir John's father was also Sir John de Lungvilliers who has an IPM 5
Nov 1254 in which his son John is his heir, and this Sir John Senior
left a widow Elena who a few months later, as his widow is making a
claim for land in Horneby and Mellyng, co Lanc. I don't know who she
is.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
I'm not certain that the younger John de Longvilers was a knight.
Elena, or Ellen, was Ellen de Daiville (or d'Eyvill) and was the
wife/widow of the younger John de Lungvilers, not his mother. Elena
was the daughter of Sir Robert de de Daiville of Egmanton, Notts. (d.
bef 1249) by his wife Denise 'fitz William', of the Sprotborough
family. Ellen evidently had lands in Skegby, and Egmanton, Notts. as
her maritagium. There was an assize of novel disseisin arraigned by
Clementia (a daughter of John de Longvilers and Ellen de Daiville)
against her uncle John de Daiville in 1275 over lands in Egmanton and
elsewhere [CPR 3 Edw. I, in 44th Annual Report of the Deputy Keeper of
the Public Records (1883), p. 93].
The University of Nottingham Library has record of the following:
Me D 4/4 13th C
Feoffment of lands and tenements in Skegby.
Elena de Lungvilers to Jn. de Eyvill her nephew.
Location: Skegby, Nottinghamshire
Ellen/Elena married (2ndly) Sir William de Montgomery [W. Brown,
The Register of Walter Giffard, Surtees Soc. CIX:25-26].
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You wrote:
Sir John de Lungvilliers, senior was the son of Eudo de Lungvilliers,
by his wife Clemence de Montbegon. Clemence was co-heiress of her
brother Roger de Montbegon, and they were both children of Thomas de
Montbegon of Horneby, co Lanc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Clementia was Clementia Malherbe, not de Montbegon. Roger de
Montbegon of Hornby, Lancs. was her half-brother, who d.s.p. in 1226.
The lands of Hornby came to Clementia's descendants, although perhaps
not too cleanly. See VCH Lancs. 8:191-201.
Adam fitz Swain
I
I
1) Adam de = Matilda = 2) John Malherbe
Montbegon I I
I __I______________________
I I I I
Roger John Mabel Clementia
dsp 1226 dsp = William = Eudo de
bef 2 Jan de la Longvilers
1216 Mare
See among other sources, W. Farrer, Early Yorkshire Charters III:
319, no. 1663; W. Brown, Yorkshire Inquisitions I:40; P. C. Reed, <De
La Mare>, SGM, 24 Feb 1999; and Rosie Bevan, <Re: de Montebegom with
Hansard Up Front Again>, SGM, 12 Jul 2001.
Cheers,
John
P.S. Link to VCH Lancs. 8:191-201
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=53296
Merilyn Pedrick
Merilyn
-------Original Message-------
From: wjhonson
Date: 11/20/09 19:30:19
Subject: Barack's Lungvilliers ascent
Diana, Sarah Ferguson, and Barack are all cousins in part because they
All descent from the marriage of Margaret de Lungvilliers to Geoffrey
De Neville of Hornby Castle.
You can see, on Leo's great web site here
http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00385259&tree=LEO
What he shows for Margaret.
We can extend this ascent several more generations
Margaret's father Sir John de Lungvilliers was himself the heir of his
Own father and "aged 24" 1254.
Sir John's father was also Sir John de Lungvilliers who has an IPM 5
Nov 1254 in which his son John is his heir, and this Sir John Senior
Left a widow Elena who a few months later, as his widow is making a
Claim for land in Horneby and Mellyng, co Lanc. I don't know who she
Is.
Sir John de Lungvilliers, senior was the son of Eudo de Lungvilliers,
By his wife Clemence de Montbegon. Clemence was co-heiress of her
Brother Roger de Montbegon, and they were both children of Thomas de
Montbegon of Horneby, co Lanc.
Will Johnson
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wjhonson
This is my source for Sir John being the heir of Sir John
http://www.archive.org/stream/cu31924084250582#page/n67/mode/2up
Will Johnson
wjhonson
Ellen as widow as Sir John occurs just five years after the elder Sir
John's 1254 IPM, as "widow of Sir John" claiming land in Horneby.
Are you certain that she was not the widow of the elder Sir John?
Will
wjhonson
believe probably more correctly when it says that Margaret was the
granddaughter, citing a record from 1292. The pleading in 1399 note,
is more than 100 years after the fact, so it's not unusual that two
Sir John's might be rolled into one, esp. if they died within a short
time of each other.
Add to that the IPM information linked earlier and I think the
evidence weighs more on the side of two sequential Sir John's and then
Margaret.
Will
John P. Ravilious
>
> - Show quoted text -
Friday, 20 November, 2009
Dear Will,
I'm rather certain of this. Two items of use on this point:
1. A post by Rosie Bevan from 2004, copied below [1]. This
placement works well with the chronology of the Daiville
family, given that Margaret de Longvilers is identified
as having been born after 1246 [cf. Richard Holmes,
Wapentake of Osgoldcross, in YAJ X:250 et seq.]
2. The text in the Register of Archbp. Walter Giffard
[Surtees Soc. CIX:25-26, no. LXIX] says regarding the
dispute over the advowson of Badsworth [inquisition
dated at Doncaster, 11 Apr 1268] that
'... the advowson belonged to Geoffrey de Neville by
reason of his marriage with the heiress, which was
made with Edward's [the prince, son of King Henry]
consent. Sir William de Mungumeri claimed to present,
as having married the mother of the heiress, who was
dowered in a third part of the heiress's
inheritance. '
Given that we already knew that Elena, widow of John de
Lungvilers, claimed dower in Horneby and Melling [Yorks. Inqs. I:40]
in Feb. 1257/8, I think the case is made.
Cheers,
John
Notes
[1] From: Rosie Bevan <rbe...@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: The identity of Denise, wife of Thomas Brocket d.1435
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 21:40:59 +1300
" From time to time posts appear asking questions about the identity
of Joan/Dionise Neville/Fauconberg, wife of Thomas Brocket from
Glover's pedigree of the Brocket family (e.g. see Paul Reed's post of
May 7 1999 under the thread "William Neville (Earl of Kent)"
explaining the problem of her identification).
In March 2002 at the prompting of Odd Otteson, I struck up a
correspondence with Dr Adrian Brockett of Darlington, co. Durham, who
had made the discovery that Denise was neither a Neville or a
Fauconberge, but was in fact daughter and heir of Sir William Sampson
of Appleton, Yorkshire, by whom the manor, later known as Brocket's
Hall in Appleton, came into the Brocket family. Adrian's findings were
summarised on Ray Madsen's web site. http://www.wheathampstead.net/brockett/
The text of this deed is now posted on Adrian's well-sourced Brockett
web site at http://www.brockett.info/
"1 Oct 1458: Release by Thomas Broket Esq, son and heir of Thomas
Broket and Dionisia, his wife, daughter of William Sampson, late of
Appulton, Esq. to Robert Stillyngton, clerk, of all right in the
lands, etc., in Nether Acastre, which Styllington has had of his grant
and feoffment" [Brown W (ed) (1907) Yorkshire Deeds, YASRS, vol 39, p.
5].
Although Adrian's focus is primarily the Brocket family, I was able to
pass on to him some information about the Sampsons and Folyfaits
ancestral to this line, which he has developed and posted on his
website. Anyone descended from the Brockets of Wheathampstead or the
Hesilriges of Noseley will find the web site and discussion of
Glover's pedigree of particular interest http://www.brockett.info/Hertfordshire/Glover.htm.
Perhaps Glover noting the arms of Fauconberg and Neville on Thomas and
Denise's tomb drew the the wrong conclusion about her identity. There
is indication that Denise had both Fauconberg and Neville descents
albeit by cadet lines, (Fauconberg of Appleton and Neville of Hornby)
and she may have also been their heraldic heiress, though presumably
the arms would have been differenced.
Additional notes about the Sampson line are given below.
The origins of the Sampsons of York may lie with Sampson of Allerton,
Yorkshire who held half a fee of Henry de Lascy in 1166. With his wife
Ragenild and son William, Sampson gave Kirkstall priory two carucates
of land in West Allerton around 1160-1170. Adam son of William Sampson
son of Sampson of Allerton occurs in 1188 [EYC III, p.311-313] and may
be the same person as Adam Sampson who with his son Walter and
daughter Denise gave land in Pudsey (which is three miles east of
Allerton) to Kirkstall priory [Mon.Ang. v.5, p.549].
Tying the Sampson generations together is the following source kindly
provided by Adrian [William Brown (ed) (1897) Yorkshire Lay Subsidy
1301, YASRS, vol 21, p.119 footnote 1.].
In the British Museum (Add. MSS no. 28, 780) there is a brief pedigree
of the descent from Alan Sampson to Denise. "Memorandum quod Alanus
Sampson, Civis Ebor., obiit A.D. millesimo cc'mo septuagesimo tercio,
Johane Sampson, Ch'r, filio suo ete herede, tunc plene etatis
existente, viz., anno regni Regis Edwardi primi pos. conquestum
secundo per estimacionemt Idem Johannes Sampson, Ch'r, obiit A.D. M'mo
ccc'mo x'mo, Henrico Sampson, filio suo et herede, tunc plene etatis
existente, viz, anno regni Regis Edwardi secundi post conquestum
quarto. Idem Henricus Sampson obiit intestatus, anno regni Regis
Edwardi tercii post conquestam xxxj'mo (1357), ut dicitur, Johanne
Sampson, filio suo et herede, tunc plene etatis existente. Idem
Johannes Sampson, filius Henrici, obiit in festo Decollationis S.
Johannis Baptiste (Aug. 29th), A.D. millesimo ccc'mo sexagesimo nono,
viz, anno regni Regis E. tercii xliij'cio, Willelmo Sampson, filio suo
et herede, patre Dionisie que nunc est, infra!
etatem existente."
1. Alan Sampson ('Alanus filius Sampsonis') d.1273, Moneyer of York
1242, bailiff of York 1253-4 [Red Book of the Exchequer, p.1078 ;
William Brown (ed.) 'Yorkshire Lay Subsidy, 1301. (YASRS, vol 21) p.
119]
2. Sir John Sampson, mayor of York in 1279, 1281-83, 1285, 1299 and
1300, Commissioner of gaol delivery 1286, attorney of Archbishop of
York in 1291, Constable of Scarborough Castle 1292-97. Summoned to
serve against the Scots in 1296 having £40 lands in Yorkshire. Owed
£25 in fees and £60 compensation for lost horses and equipment at
Stirling which was eventually paid to him in 1304. Knight of the Shire
in 1300 and 1301. The same year he was appointed Constable of
Scarborough for life for £10 p.a. but had to relinquish the post in
1308 for £20 [Knights of Edward I, v.3, p.206]. In an undated charter
Richard son of Philip Fauconberg granted to Sir John Sampson of York
and Mary his wife, his manor called Southwood in Appleton in Ainsty
[Kirkby's Inquest, p.218]. Curiously he also seems to be the same who
gave his manor of Southwood to the priory of Appleton in 1301 in a
charter witnessed by Sir John Sampson. Richard de Fauconberge had also
given the nuns two parts of his ma!
nor of "Suboys' in 1265 [Monasticon Anglicanum, v.5 p.653]. Mary was
John Sampson's wife prior to an inquisition instigated by the heirs of
Gilbert Skipton to John and Mary's right in a messuage in Appleton in
1299 [William Brown (ed.), Yorkshire Inquisitions, vol. 3, p.113]. On
6th Sept 1309 Sir John was was given licence to have an oratory within
his manor of Appleton and died in 1310, having had four sons - John
who died without issue during his father's lifetime, Henry son and
heir, Thomas a canon at York d.1349, and William living 1348 when he
bought a messuage in York from Robert de Reygate. Sir John also had a
daughter Constance, wife of Sir John Sutton [CP XII/1574].
2. Henry Sampson d.1357. Recorded in 1316 holding land in Appleton
[Feudal Aids, v.6, p.189].
3. John Sampson d. 1369 "Johannes Sampson, filius et haeres Henrici
Sampson, by will dated "apud Appelton, in manerio meo," August 29th,
1369 desires to be buried within the conventual church of St John the
Evangelist at Nun Appleton. He left a son Robert, and a widow
"Emmeria" [Kirkby's Inquest, p.218]. Emma was daughter of Alan
Folyfait of Badsworth, Yorks. and his wife Euphemia, as given by a
1424 plea over the manor of Badsworth.
4. William Sampson d.1393. Details about William, (including his will)
are given on Adrian's site at http://www.brockett.info/yorkshire/Sampson.htm#William
5. Denise Sampson d. 1437 wife of Thomas Brocket d.1435
http://www.brockett.info/yorkshire/Sampson.htm#Dionisia
The plea over Badsworth gives valuable information about Denise's
ancestry. The manor descended from Ilbert de Reinville fl 1090 into
the Longvillers family by marriage between Agnes Reinville great grand-
daughter of Ilbert, and Eudo de Longvillers. From thence it passed to
Margaret Longvillers, daughter and heir of Sir John de Longvillers,
wife of Geoffrey de Neville of Hornby d.1285 [EYC III, p. 248-250; CP
IX 487]. Robert de Neville of Hornby was still in possession of the
advowson of Badsworth in 1346 when he settled it and others by fine on
Sir William Scot and Alice his wife [W. Pailey Baildon (ed.) (1910)
Feet of Fines for the County of York from 1327-1347. YASRS, vol.42, p.
188], but by 1312 the manor of Badsworth itself had passed into the
hands of Roger Folyfait presumably by marriage.
The descent of the manor of Badsworth as far as it is known is given
below.
1. Ilbert de Reinville fl 1090 [EYC III pp.248-250]
2. Adam de Reinville [EYC III pp.248-250]
3. Hervey de Reinville [EYC III pp.248-250]
4. Eudes de Longvillers, seneschal of Robert de Lascy [EYC III pp.
304/5] who married Agnes, daughter of Hervey de Reinville of Badsworth
5. Sir Eudes de Longvilliers, d.1229 [EYC III 318]=Clemence de
Malherbe d.1246
6. Sir John de Longvilliers d. 1254 [William Brown (1892), Yorkshire
Inquisitions, v. 1, p.40]
7. Sir John de Longvilliers=Elena da. of Sir Robert Deiville and
Denise FitzWilliam (Elena married secondly Sir William Montgomery of
Cubley, Derbs. who presented to Badsworth church in right of his wife
[W.Brown (ed) (1904), Register of Archbishop Walter Giffard, (Surtees
Society Publication 109), p.101])
8. Margaret de Longvillers d.1319=1267 Geoffrey de Neville d.1285, ?yr
brother of Robert de Neville of Raby d. 1282.
From here the descent of the manor is not known. Geoffrey and Margaret
had five sons John, Robert, Geoffrey, Edmund and William, and one
known daughter, Margaret.
The following gives a possible Fauconberg descent for Mary, wife of
Sir John Sampson
1. Osbern de Arches d.c. 1115 gave 3 carucates in Appleton to St
Mary's York [EYC I, pp. 418-419; DP 314]
2. Agnes de Arches of Catfoss who was married three times and had
children by all three husbands 1.Herbert de St Quintin, 2. Robert de
Fauconberg, 3. William Foliot [EYC v.III p.53,54; Mon.Angl. v.4, p.
185]. Her brother William de Arches gave her land in Appleton, two
carucates of which were given to Nunkeeling priory which she founded.
Her daughter Alice St Quintin founded the nunnery at Appleton. By her
second husband Agnes had
3. Peter de Fauconberg who was given tenancy of the 3 carucates in
Appleton, donated by his grandfather, between 1145-65 by Savary, abbot
of St Mary's York. By his wife Beatrice he is known to have had three
sons William Walter and Stephen. Another son, Philip, possibly by a
later wife, appears in the chronicles of Melsa [EYC v.III, pp.47-48;
EYC v.I, pp.418-420]. Chronologically there may be an intervening
generation or two before:
4. Philip de Fauconberg of Colton and Appleton, Yorks. Possibly the
same as the Philip Fauconberg whose wife was Cecily de Scotney, one of
the three daughters and coheirs of William Scotney of Cumberworth,
Lincs. [DD 706] mentioned in the Close Rolls in 1234 when the sheriff
of Lincolnshire was ordered to divide William's lands between the
heirs and give his widow, Matilda, her dower. (Cecily's elder sister
Frethesant was married to Walter de Fauconberg (unlikely to have been
Sir Walter of Rise and Withernwick) [CCR 1231-1234 p.407]. Frethesant
died in 1258 when William son of Hugh Willoughby was her heir to the
town of Cumberworth, Thorp manor and half a knight's fee in
'Folettby' [CIPM I no.442; CP XII/2 p.656 n.(d)])
5. Richard de Fauconberg whose heir was probably Mary, wife of Sir
John Sampson. The exact relationship is not known.
Adrian is to be congratulated on an excellent web site.
Merry Christmas, everyone, and a healthy and productive 2005!
Cheers
Rosie "
Roem...@aol.com
my cousin many times over. In opposition to Merilyn, I am not one who is
pleased about this cousinship. I fear for my country.
Kay Roemer
_roem...@aol.com_ (mailto:roem...@aol.com)
Nathaniel Taylor
Roem...@aol.com wrote:
> So, Obama is a descendant of Baudry le Teuton. That must mean that he is
> my cousin many times over. In opposition to Merilyn, I am not one who is
> pleased about this cousinship. I fear for my country.
First, your comment about your country is off topic. Second, if you
would like to discuss your descent from 'Baudry le Teuton', you should
post your line for comment. If it is through the same alleged gateway,
Matthew Rodham of Virginia, through whom you posted a medieval line back
on October 17, given that no one seemed to be able to produce any
evidence for Rodham's parentage, you might want to be more circumspect
about claiming this particular descent.
Nat Taylor
a genealogist's sketchbook:
http://www.nltaylor.net/sketchbook/
Merilyn Pedrick
have a man of vision at the helm - we just have more of the same here in
Australia.
Merilyn
-------Original Message-------
From: Roem...@aol.com
Date: 22/11/2009 4:55:46 AM
Subject: Barack's Lungvilliers ascent
So, Obama is a descendant of Baudry Le Teuton. That must mean that he is
My cousin many times over. In opposition to Merilyn, I am not one who is
Pleased about this cousinship. I fear for my country.
Kay Roemer
_roem...@aol.com_ (mailto:roem...@aol.com)
-------------------------------
TOM
<merilyn.pedr...@internode.on.net> wrote:
> Bloody hell - what's the matter with you Americans? You are so lucky to
> have a man of vision at the helm - we just have more of the same here in
> Australia.
Stop painting all us Americans with one brush!
My cousinship with Barack is posted at Gen-Med,
and I am proud of it. He was elected by a majority
of the electorate, and his genealogy is as British
as Americans could ask for.
aaron