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Byzantine question
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Leo van de Pas
May 20, 2013, 8:29:04 PM5/20/13
to Gen-Med
The future Emperor Romanos III Argyros in 1028 was forced by Emperor
Constantine VIII to divorce his wife so he could marry the Emperor's
daughter and so succeed to the throne.
By looking around I found his first wife was Helena and she was forced into
a convent after their divorce.
Only an unnamed daughter is mentioned who was engaged to Holy Roman Emperor
Heinrich III
Romanos Argyros lived from 968 to 1034
Bagrat IV of Georgia lived from 1018 to 1072 married as a first wife Helena
daughter of Romanos Argyros, and from this marriage there are descendants
till the present.
If Bagrat's wife was younger, she would have been born between 1018 and 1028
which could make her a daughter of Emperor Romanos III Argyros and his first
wife Helena.
Can anyone confirm (or deny) this?
With many thanks
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
Constantine VIII to divorce his wife so he could marry the Emperor's
daughter and so succeed to the throne.
By looking around I found his first wife was Helena and she was forced into
a convent after their divorce.
Only an unnamed daughter is mentioned who was engaged to Holy Roman Emperor
Heinrich III
Romanos Argyros lived from 968 to 1034
Bagrat IV of Georgia lived from 1018 to 1072 married as a first wife Helena
daughter of Romanos Argyros, and from this marriage there are descendants
till the present.
If Bagrat's wife was younger, she would have been born between 1018 and 1028
which could make her a daughter of Emperor Romanos III Argyros and his first
wife Helena.
Can anyone confirm (or deny) this?
With many thanks
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
Bronwen Edwards
May 21, 2013, 12:21:54 AM5/21/13
to Leo van de Pas, Gen-Med
Leo, this doesn't have anything to do with your question but all of the Google threads have disappeared for the past two days. I tried to use Rootsweb to get the threads, but your post was the only one that came through. I would like to know if anyone else is having this problem or if I have done something terrible to my computer somehow. Thank you, Bronwen
>________________________________
> From: Leo van de Pas <can...@netspeed.com.au>
>To: Gen-Med <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
>Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 5:29 PM
>Subject: Byzantine question
>-------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>
>
>
Renia
May 21, 2013, 4:48:06 AM5/21/13
to
On 21/05/2013 05:21, Bronwen Edwards wrote:
> Leo, this doesn't have anything to do with your question but all of
> the Google threads have disappeared for the past two days. I tried to
> use Rootsweb to get the threads, but your post was the only one that
> came through. I would like to know if anyone else is having this
> problem or if I have done something terrible to my computer somehow.
> Thank you, Bronwen
I'm in the UK so the dates and times of threads are different.
> Leo, this doesn't have anything to do with your question but all of
> the Google threads have disappeared for the past two days. I tried to
> use Rootsweb to get the threads, but your post was the only one that
> came through. I would like to know if anyone else is having this
> problem or if I have done something terrible to my computer somehow.
> Thank you, Bronwen
The only threads and posts so far today that I can see are:
Byzantine Question (Leo) 01:29
Byzantine Question (Bronwen) 05:21
Elizabeth Cobham (Doug) 01:48
Elizabeth Cobham (Jan) 03:32
ElizabethCobham (John Watson) 05:25
Yesterday, 20th May
Jane Empson's birth year (Will) 03:08
Any Scots royal lines for John Borland (Kelsey) 10:01
Origins of the Despenser (poohroo) 14:09
Any Scots royal lines for John Borland (JohnnyBrananas) 14:40
Any Scots royal lines for John Borland (JohnnyBrananas) 16:28
Elizabeth Cobham (Doug) 21:13
And for 19th May:
Any Scots royal lines for John Borland (Johnny) 00:57
Any Scots royal lines for John Borland (Matt) 00:54
Any Scots royal lines for John Borland (Kelsey) 00:57
Hender of Botreaux Castle (Jim Baker) 03:51
Hender of Botreaux Castle (Will) 06:17
Any Scots royal lines for John Borland (Kelsey) 10:46
Hender of Botreaux Castle (Jim Baker) 10:00
Jane Empson's birth year (Will) 13:59
Elizabeth Empson (Will) 18:06
Elizabeth Empson (Will) 18:12
Any Scots royal lines for John Borland (JohnnyBrananas) 18:59
Sjostrom
May 21, 2013, 6:57:56 AM5/21/13
to gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Leo,
Precisely as I have posted to you on 2 November 2009 and on 22 January 2013
and in some messages also between those dates,
I think (and my sources report) that
1) king Bagrat IV's son and successor, king Giorgi II, was born of his
second wife Borena. Present-day Bagrationi progeny derives via Giorgi II,
so they consequently seem not to be descendants of Argyros.
As I recall, I am not aware of any longer-term descendancy from Bagrat IV's
other wives.
2) Genealogics person id nr I00512512,
Bagrat IV, King of Abkhazia and Kartvelians
(bc 1018; d 24 nov 1072; buried at Chkondidi monastery)
had two wives. His second wife (married bef c1040) was:
Borena of Alaunia (born in est 1020s; d aft 1072)
herself SISTER of:
Dorgholel of Ossetia, king of Alauns
Precisely as I have posted to you on 2 November 2009 and on 22 January 2013
and in some messages also between those dates,
I think (and my sources report) that
1) king Bagrat IV's son and successor, king Giorgi II, was born of his
second wife Borena. Present-day Bagrationi progeny derives via Giorgi II,
so they consequently seem not to be descendants of Argyros.
As I recall, I am not aware of any longer-term descendancy from Bagrat IV's
other wives.
2) Genealogics person id nr I00512512,
Bagrat IV, King of Abkhazia and Kartvelians
(bc 1018; d 24 nov 1072; buried at Chkondidi monastery)
had two wives. His second wife (married bef c1040) was:
Borena of Alaunia (born in est 1020s; d aft 1072)
herself SISTER of:
Dorgholel of Ossetia, king of Alauns
Don Stone
May 21, 2013, 1:31:16 PM5/21/13
to gen-me...@rootsweb.com
On 5/20/2013 6:29 PM, Leo van de Pas wrote:
> The future Emperor Romanos III Argyros in 1028 was forced by Emperor
> Constantine VIII to divorce his wife so he could marry the Emperor's
> daughter and so succeed to the throne.
>
> By looking around I found his first wife was Helena and she was forced into
> a convent after their divorce.
>
> Only an unnamed daughter is mentioned who was engaged to Holy Roman Emperor
> Heinrich III
>
> Romanos Argyros lived from 968 to 1034
>
> Bagrat IV of Georgia lived from 1018 to 1072 married as a first wife Helena
> daughter of Romanos Argyros, and from this marriage there are descendants
> till the present.
>
> If Bagrat's wife was younger, she would have been born between 1018 and 1028
> which could make her a daughter of Emperor Romanos III Argyros and his first
> wife Helena.
>
> Can anyone confirm (or deny) this?
>
>
> With many thanks
>
> Leo van de Pas
Leo,
> The future Emperor Romanos III Argyros in 1028 was forced by Emperor
> Constantine VIII to divorce his wife so he could marry the Emperor's
> daughter and so succeed to the throne.
>
> By looking around I found his first wife was Helena and she was forced into
> a convent after their divorce.
>
> Only an unnamed daughter is mentioned who was engaged to Holy Roman Emperor
> Heinrich III
>
> Romanos Argyros lived from 968 to 1034
>
> Bagrat IV of Georgia lived from 1018 to 1072 married as a first wife Helena
> daughter of Romanos Argyros, and from this marriage there are descendants
> till the present.
>
> If Bagrat's wife was younger, she would have been born between 1018 and 1028
> which could make her a daughter of Emperor Romanos III Argyros and his first
> wife Helena.
>
> Can anyone confirm (or deny) this?
>
>
> With many thanks
>
> Leo van de Pas
Cyril Toumanoff's _Les dynasties de la Caucasie chr�tienne_ (1990), p.
134 (Table 22), says that Bagrat III/IV (1018-1072) of Georgia married
first in 1032/3 H�l�ne, daughter of Basil Argyros and niece of Emperor
Romanos III Argyros.
-- Don Stone
Kay Allen
May 21, 2013, 3:41:20 PM5/21/13
to Renia, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Bronwen,
I haven't seen some of these that Renia mentions either.
I am also in California. Are you on At&T?
K
________________________________
From: Renia <re...@otenet.gr>
To: gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 1:48 AM
Subject: Re: Byzantine question and "missing threads"
I haven't seen some of these that Renia mentions either.
I am also in California. Are you on At&T?
K
________________________________
From: Renia <re...@otenet.gr>
To: gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 1:48 AM
Subject: Re: Byzantine question and "missing threads"
Don Stone
May 21, 2013, 7:29:21 PM5/21/13
to gen-me...@rootsweb.com
On 5/21/2013 11:31 AM, Don Stone wrote:
> On 5/20/2013 6:29 PM, Leo van de Pas wrote:
>> [snip]
> On 5/20/2013 6:29 PM, Leo van de Pas wrote:
>>
>> Bagrat IV of Georgia lived from 1018 to 1072 married as a first wife Helena
>> daughter of Romanos Argyros, and from this marriage there are descendants
>> till the present.
>>
>> If Bagrat's wife was younger, she would have been born between 1018 and 1028
>> which could make her a daughter of Emperor Romanos III Argyros and his first
>> wife Helena.
>>
>> Can anyone confirm (or deny) this?
>> Bagrat IV of Georgia lived from 1018 to 1072 married as a first wife Helena
>> daughter of Romanos Argyros, and from this marriage there are descendants
>> till the present.
>>
>> If Bagrat's wife was younger, she would have been born between 1018 and 1028
>> which could make her a daughter of Emperor Romanos III Argyros and his first
>> wife Helena.
>>
>> Can anyone confirm (or deny) this?
> Cyril Toumanoff's _Les dynasties de la Caucasie chr�tienne_ (1990), p.
> 134 (Table 22), says that Bagrat III/IV (1018-1072) of Georgia married
> first in 1032/3 H�l�ne, daughter of Basil Argyros and niece of Emperor
> Romanos III Argyros.
It appears that the marriage of Basil Argyros' daughter Helena to Bagrat
> 134 (Table 22), says that Bagrat III/IV (1018-1072) of Georgia married
> first in 1032/3 H�l�ne, daughter of Basil Argyros and niece of Emperor
> Romanos III Argyros.
IV was part of a peace deal negotiated in 1032. See /John Skylitzes: A
Synopsis of Byzantine History, 811--1057/, translation and notes by John
Wortley (Cambridge Univ. Press, 2010), p. 357.
-- Don
Wjhonson
May 21, 2013, 7:44:38 PM5/21/13
to d...@donstonetech.com, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Modern books are generally all available for sale on Amazon *with* the addition that you can "Look Inside", which you generally cannot do for resale books.
http://www.amazon.com/John-Skylitzes-Synopsis-Byzantine-Translation/dp/1107404746
Click to Look Inside
Type 1032 as your search term
and it will take you right to page 157
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Stone <d...@donstonetech.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tue, May 21, 2013 4:34 pm
Subject: Re: Byzantine question
On 5/21/2013 11:31 AM, Don Stone wrote:
> On 5/20/2013 6:29 PM, Leo van de Pas wrote:
>> [snip]
>>
>> Bagrat IV of Georgia lived from 1018 to 1072 married as a first wife Helena
>> daughter of Romanos Argyros, and from this marriage there are descendants
>> till the present.
>>
>> If Bagrat's wife was younger, she would have been born between 1018 and 1028
>> which could make her a daughter of Emperor Romanos III Argyros and his first
>> wife Helena.
>>
>> Can anyone confirm (or deny) this?
> Cyril Toumanoff's _Les dynasties de la Caucasie chrétienne_ (1990), p.
http://www.amazon.com/John-Skylitzes-Synopsis-Byzantine-Translation/dp/1107404746
Click to Look Inside
Type 1032 as your search term
and it will take you right to page 157
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Stone <d...@donstonetech.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tue, May 21, 2013 4:34 pm
Subject: Re: Byzantine question
On 5/21/2013 11:31 AM, Don Stone wrote:
> On 5/20/2013 6:29 PM, Leo van de Pas wrote:
>> [snip]
>>
>> Bagrat IV of Georgia lived from 1018 to 1072 married as a first wife Helena
>> daughter of Romanos Argyros, and from this marriage there are descendants
>> till the present.
>>
>> If Bagrat's wife was younger, she would have been born between 1018 and 1028
>> which could make her a daughter of Emperor Romanos III Argyros and his first
>> wife Helena.
>>
>> Can anyone confirm (or deny) this?
> 134 (Table 22), says that Bagrat III/IV (1018-1072) of Georgia married
> first in 1032/3 Hélène, daughter of Basil Argyros and niece of Emperor
> Romanos III Argyros.
It appears that the marriage of Basil Argyros' daughter Helena to Bagrat
IV was part of a peace deal negotiated in 1032. See /John Skylitzes: A
Synopsis of Byzantine History, 811--1057/, translation and notes by John
Wortley (Cambridge Univ. Press, 2010), p. 357.
-- Don
It appears that the marriage of Basil Argyros' daughter Helena to Bagrat
IV was part of a peace deal negotiated in 1032. See /John Skylitzes: A
Synopsis of Byzantine History, 811--1057/, translation and notes by John
Wortley (Cambridge Univ. Press, 2010), p. 357.
-- Don
Wjhonson
May 21, 2013, 7:45:07 PM5/21/13
to wjho...@aol.com, d...@donstonetech.com, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
recte page 357 is where it will take you
Renia
May 21, 2013, 9:16:31 PM5/21/13
to
On 21/05/2013 20:41, Kay Allen wrote:
> Bronwen,
>
> I haven't seen some of these that Renia mentions either.
>
> I am also in California. Are you on At&T?
At&T ?? What's that?
> Bronwen,
>
> I haven't seen some of these that Renia mentions either.
>
> I am also in California. Are you on At&T?
Bronwen Edwards
May 22, 2013, 1:10:29 AM5/22/13
to
On Tuesday, May 21, 2013 12:41:20 PM UTC-7, Kay Allen wrote:
> Bronwen,
>
>
>
> I haven't seen some of these that Renia mentions either.
>
>
>
> I am also in California. Are you on At&T?
>
>
>
> K
>
>
Today I re-loaded all of my Google stuff and the posts reappeared. I am not on AT&T. I think something happened in Google and it had to be re-started. On the other hand, I resubscribed on Rootsweb and nothing has come up at all from them.
> Bronwen,
>
>
>
> I haven't seen some of these that Renia mentions either.
>
>
>
> I am also in California. Are you on At&T?
>
>
>
> K
>
>
Bronwen
Renia
May 22, 2013, 4:44:54 AM5/22/13
to
Message has been deleted
Adrian Ballard
May 22, 2013, 11:20:15 AM5/22/13
to gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Hi
Can any body please help me ! - I recently found a link online to a
publication that only contains an index.
I believe this to be in 3 volumes this one being Vol. lll - An Index -
Although very useful it would be good
to find Vol. l & ll - so I can glean the information I am interested in -
The details of the book are below with
the references I seek.
As anybody access to these are can any body look them up for me.
Best Wishes
Adrian Ballard
THE HISTORY OF
Totnes Priory & Medieval Town
DEVONSHIRE
BY
HUGH R. WATKIN 1917
GENERAL INDEX TO VOLUMES I AND II
Ballard :
Rogerus, 35.
Thoma, vicar of Rattrwe, 87 (283)
Willelmus, son of Thoma, 88 {298), 218, 228, 231.
Ricardus, no (i), 114 (4), 123 (2), 166 (4), 206.
Walterus, 216.
Ballonde :
Ricardus, [1342] 1076, 278 (7),
Ratdone. See Raddon. Rattery, Rattre, Rattriu, Rattru
Thoma Ballard, 87 {283) ; admitted to guild, 916.
Kallard ;
Walterus, 218, 218.
Ricardus, 218.
Martinus Adhelard, 82 {176).
Adelard, Athelard, Adtelard, Adhulard :
Elena, daughter of Ydonia and Martinus, and wife of Willelmus Casse, 85
(244).
Luka, 207. ?
Martini, 66 (186).
Martinus, 71 (30) ;
Martinus, filius, 72 (100), succeeded by
Rogerus de Lolles- forde, 82 (176).
Ydenia, wife of Martinus, daughter of Adam Stranga, 85 (243) (244).
Martinus, 85 (244).
Alardus : 67 (246).
Ricardus filius, 64 (84).
the Sheriff, 1045.
Alanus : family of Fitz, 19.
son of Count Stephanus, 18 ;
Count, 1013.
filius Fraaldi or Flaeld, 19, 21.
fitz Ronald, 19.
Ran., 64 (72) ;
Radulf Alan, 107.
Alanni: Ricardus, 63 (14b).
http://ia600303.us.archive.org/32/items/cu31924091781348/cu31924091781348.pdf
Can any body please help me ! - I recently found a link online to a
publication that only contains an index.
I believe this to be in 3 volumes this one being Vol. lll - An Index -
Although very useful it would be good
to find Vol. l & ll - so I can glean the information I am interested in -
The details of the book are below with
the references I seek.
As anybody access to these are can any body look them up for me.
Best Wishes
Adrian Ballard
THE HISTORY OF
Totnes Priory & Medieval Town
DEVONSHIRE
BY
HUGH R. WATKIN 1917
GENERAL INDEX TO VOLUMES I AND II
Ballard :
Rogerus, 35.
Thoma, vicar of Rattrwe, 87 (283)
Willelmus, son of Thoma, 88 {298), 218, 228, 231.
Ricardus, no (i), 114 (4), 123 (2), 166 (4), 206.
Walterus, 216.
Ballonde :
Ricardus, [1342] 1076, 278 (7),
Ratdone. See Raddon. Rattery, Rattre, Rattriu, Rattru
Thoma Ballard, 87 {283) ; admitted to guild, 916.
Kallard ;
Walterus, 218, 218.
Ricardus, 218.
Martinus Adhelard, 82 {176).
Adelard, Athelard, Adtelard, Adhulard :
Elena, daughter of Ydonia and Martinus, and wife of Willelmus Casse, 85
(244).
Luka, 207. ?
Martini, 66 (186).
Martinus, 71 (30) ;
Martinus, filius, 72 (100), succeeded by
Rogerus de Lolles- forde, 82 (176).
Ydenia, wife of Martinus, daughter of Adam Stranga, 85 (243) (244).
Martinus, 85 (244).
Alardus : 67 (246).
Ricardus filius, 64 (84).
the Sheriff, 1045.
Alanus : family of Fitz, 19.
son of Count Stephanus, 18 ;
Count, 1013.
filius Fraaldi or Flaeld, 19, 21.
fitz Ronald, 19.
Ran., 64 (72) ;
Radulf Alan, 107.
Alanni: Ricardus, 63 (14b).
http://ia600303.us.archive.org/32/items/cu31924091781348/cu31924091781348.pdf
Wjhonson
May 22, 2013, 11:44:32 AM5/22/13
to re...@otenet.gr, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
A phone company in the US
-----Original Message-----
From: Renia <re...@otenet.gr>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wed, May 22, 2013 1:52 am
Subject: Re: Byzantine question and "missing threads"
-----Original Message-----
From: Renia <re...@otenet.gr>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wed, May 22, 2013 1:52 am
Subject: Re: Byzantine question and "missing threads"
Wjhonson
May 22, 2013, 11:52:21 AM5/22/13
to balla...@hotmail.com, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
You can get the ebook for 10 bucks
http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?tn=History+Totnes+Priory+Medieval+Town,+Devonshire
-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Ballard <balla...@hotmail.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?tn=History+Totnes+Priory+Medieval+Town,+Devonshire
-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Ballard <balla...@hotmail.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
John Higgins
May 22, 2013, 12:15:38 PM5/22/13
to
> http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?tn=History+Totnes+Prior...
> http://ia600303.us.archive.org/32/items/cu31924091781348/cu3192409178...
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEVAL-requ...@rootsweb.com
website?
Volume I is available - for free - via the Internet Archive.
http://archive.org/details/cu31924091781322
Also volume III - but not volume II:
http://archive.org/details/cu31924091781348
From the table of contents, it appears that the genealogical
information is in volume II, alas.
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEVAL-requ...@rootsweb.com
> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of
> the message
How can you tell WHICH volumes are being offered for sale at this
> the message
website?
Volume I is available - for free - via the Internet Archive.
http://archive.org/details/cu31924091781322
Also volume III - but not volume II:
http://archive.org/details/cu31924091781348
From the table of contents, it appears that the genealogical
information is in volume II, alas.
Wjhonson
May 22, 2013, 12:30:52 PM5/22/13
to jhigg...@yahoo.com, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
It is a three volume set. They are offering for ten bucks for the ebook, all three volumes, as one download
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com
John Higgins
May 22, 2013, 12:38:10 PM5/22/13
to
>
> Also volume III - but not volume II:http://archive.org/details/cu31924091781348
>
> >From the table of contents, it appears that the genealogical
> information is in volume II, alas.
>
> -------------------------------
> Also volume III - but not volume II:http://archive.org/details/cu31924091781348
>
> >From the table of contents, it appears that the genealogical
> information is in volume II, alas.
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEVAL-requ...@rootsweb.com
> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of
> the message
Ummm....how exactly do you know that? It's certainly not clear from
> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of
> the message
the description on the seller's website.
Message has been deleted
Joe
May 22, 2013, 12:45:40 PM5/22/13
to
Wjhonson
May 22, 2013, 12:50:31 PM5/22/13
to wjho...@aol.com, balla...@hotmail.com, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=1334697947&searchurl=tn%3DHistory%2BTotnes%2BPriory%2BMedieval%2BTown%252C%2BDevonshire
Original volumes, $275 US
http://ia600303.us.archive.org/32/items/cu31924091781348/cu31924091781348.pdf
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com
Original volumes, $275 US
To: ballardgen <balla...@hotmail.com>; gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wed, May 22, 2013 8:52 am
Subject: Re: THE HISTORY OF Totnes Priory & Medieval Town
Sent: Wed, May 22, 2013 8:52 am
Subject: Re: THE HISTORY OF Totnes Priory & Medieval Town
You can get the ebook for 10 bucks
http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?tn=History+Totnes+Priory+Medieval+Town,+Devonshire
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com
Renia
May 22, 2013, 9:24:45 PM5/22/13
to
On 22/05/2013 11:39, Johnny Brananas wrote:
> > What is AT&T?
>
> American Telephone & Telegraph. Try it ... you might like it!
Don't I have to live in America to try it?
> > What is AT&T?
>
> American Telephone & Telegraph. Try it ... you might like it!
Don't I have to live in America to try it?
Bronwen Edwards
May 23, 2013, 12:21:37 AM5/23/13
to
Message has been deleted
Renia
May 23, 2013, 9:02:22 AM5/23/13
to
On 23/05/2013 12:54, Johnny Brananas wrote:
>
>>>> American Telephone & Telegraph. Try it ... you might like it!
>>
>>> Don't I have to live in America to try it?
>>
>> Yes. Don't know why anyone would suggest it to someone living elsewhere.
>
> The point is ... why would you pester a genealogy newsgroup with
>
>>>> American Telephone & Telegraph. Try it ... you might like it!
>>
>>> Don't I have to live in America to try it?
>>
>> Yes. Don't know why anyone would suggest it to someone living elsewhere.
>
> questions about it when you have Google at your fingertips?
No, that wasn't the point. The point is you assume everyone on the
newsgroup is American. You made a wrong assumption, now you're covering
your tracks. You didn't actually have to reply in the first place.
Message has been deleted
Bronwen Edwards
May 23, 2013, 1:05:59 PM5/23/13
to
On Thursday, May 23, 2013 6:23:32 AM UTC-7, Johnny Brananas wrote:
> > No, that wasn't the point. The point is you assume everyone on the
>
> > newsgroup is American. You made a wrong assumption, now you're covering
>
> > your tracks. You didn't actually have to reply in the first place.
>
>
>
> What a laughable buffoon you are, Renia.
> > No, that wasn't the point. The point is you assume everyone on the
>
> > newsgroup is American. You made a wrong assumption, now you're covering
>
> > your tracks. You didn't actually have to reply in the first place.
>
>
>
And when you resort to name-calling, it is an admission of being wrong. You have no more to say.
Adrian Ballard
May 23, 2013, 4:49:45 PM5/23/13
to gen-me...@rootsweb.com
A "Big Thanks" to those that were able to help my last request.
I have another favor to ask.
I am trying to find the details of the following entries below from the following publication. - Can anybody help
is there an online source I can access.
Regards Adrian Ballard.
Visitations by the Heralds in Wales
Michael Powell Siddons
Harleian Society, 1996
page. 187. Gules, a horse's head erased Agent, bridled & reined Or, Sir David Ballard, Knight
page. 189, Sir David Ballard, Jane Ballard.
page 168, Richard Ballard.
v.xv, 1-2 William Ballard March King of Arms
page 224 pedigree (Ballard)
I have another favor to ask.
I am trying to find the details of the following entries below from the following publication. - Can anybody help
is there an online source I can access.
Regards Adrian Ballard.
Visitations by the Heralds in Wales
Michael Powell Siddons
Harleian Society, 1996
page. 187. Gules, a horse's head erased Agent, bridled & reined Or, Sir David Ballard, Knight
page. 189, Sir David Ballard, Jane Ballard.
page 168, Richard Ballard.
v.xv, 1-2 William Ballard March King of Arms
page 224 pedigree (Ballard)
Adrian Ballard
May 24, 2013, 10:34:11 AM5/24/13
to gen-me...@rootsweb.com
THE HISTORY OF Totnes Priory & Medieval Town
I checked with Abe Books purchase what they had shown and they do not have
Volume 2.
If anybody has any Ideas how to get a copy or the data I need inside I wound
appreciate it!
Regards,
Adrian Ballard
I Already have - Vol.1 & Vol.3 now ;-) thanks jim.
Joe
May 24, 2013, 3:47:04 PM5/24/13
to
Adrian Ballard
May 24, 2013, 4:33:42 PM5/24/13
to gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Hi Joe - No I cant, am I doing something wrong - can you ?
Limited (search only)v.2
This item is not available online ( Limited - search only) due to copyright restrictions. Learn More »
Regards Adrian
Limited (search only)v.2
This item is not available online ( Limited - search only) due to copyright restrictions. Learn More »
Regards Adrian
Joe
May 24, 2013, 5:02:35 PM5/24/13
to
you don't need too many pages, I can email them too you. I would send
you the entire pdf but it is 48 mb.
Joe
May 24, 2013, 6:30:29 PM5/24/13
to
On May 24, 1:33 pm, "Adrian Ballard" <ballard...@hotmail.com> wrote:
each. I uploaded them here: http://tinyurl.com/pyuf5b9 They are at
the bottom of the page with the names Totnes v2a_1, Totnes v2a_2 and
Totnes v2a_3.
I will interested to know if this works for sharing books with those
who cannot see them outside the US.
Adrian Ballard
May 24, 2013, 6:50:04 PM5/24/13
to gen-me...@rootsweb.com
LOL... Joe that works fine - thanks for doing that - seems we in the uk cant
access a lot of the content
your pages look impressive - will have a nose around went I have time
later...
SO
I noticed you did not have a copy of the following - can you get it the same
way - its in google books
But allas limited acces to me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Visitations by the Heralds in Wales
Michael Powell Siddons
Harleian Society, 1996
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Adrian Ballard" <balla...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 9:33 PM
To: <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Subject: Re: THE HISTORY OF Totnes Priory & Medieval Town
> Hi Joe - No I cant, am I doing something wrong - can you ?
>
>
>
> Limited (search only)v.2
> This item is not available online ( Limited - search only) due to
> copyright restrictions. Learn More �
>
> Regards Adrian
>
>
>
>
>
> On May 24, 7:34 am, "Adrian Ballard" <ballard...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> THE HISTORY OF Totnes Priory & Medieval Town
>>
>> I checked with Abe Books purchase what they had shown and they do not
>> have
>> Volume 2.
>>
>> If anybody has any Ideas how to get a copy or the data I need inside I
>> wound
>> appreciate it!
>>
>> Regards,
>> Adrian Ballard
>>
>> I Already have - Vol.1 & Vol.3 now ;-) thanks jim.
>
> Are you unable to read the copy at HathiTrust?
>
> http://tinyurl.com/q87a724
>
>
>
>
>
Renia
May 24, 2013, 7:40:00 PM5/24/13
to
On 24/05/2013 23:50, Adrian Ballard wrote:
>
> LOL... Joe that works fine - thanks for doing that - seems we in the uk
> cant access a lot of the content
I'm guessing that we in the UK can't access a lot of Googlebook stuff
>
> LOL... Joe that works fine - thanks for doing that - seems we in the uk
> cant access a lot of the content
because over here, we have different copyright laws.
John H
May 24, 2013, 9:18:42 PM5/24/13
to
Hi Joe,
I was able to finally read them from your tinyurl contribution and I am not
in USA.
Thanks
John H
"Joe" <coc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:eff6bced-8e91-4dfb...@li6g2000pbb.googlegroups.com...
I was able to finally read them from your tinyurl contribution and I am not
in USA.
Thanks
John H
"Joe" <coc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:eff6bced-8e91-4dfb...@li6g2000pbb.googlegroups.com...
Cristopher Nash
May 25, 2013, 2:20:55 PM5/25/13
to Gen-Med, Joe, Renia
It's true, Renia. And Joe <coc...@gmail.com> wrote on 24 May 2013 —
> It turns out it was easy to split the book into 3 parts of about 15MB
> each. I uploaded them here: http://tinyurl.com/pyuf5b9 They are at
> the bottom of the page with the names Totnes v2a_1, Totnes v2a_2 and
> Totnes v2a_3.
>
> I will interested to know if this works for sharing books with those
> who cannot see them outside the US.
Many thanks, Joe, for this thoughtful & helpful contribution. It works invaluably for me, currently deep & paradoxically at it — in Devon(!). 'Paradoxically' also because I've until recently spent 2 years ransacking the archives in search of Watkins' legendary ms for the Vol. 2 sequel to his magisterial Dartmouth—Vol. I.—Pre-Reformation. (For others interested in that one, the news is not so good.)
Cris
> It turns out it was easy to split the book into 3 parts of about 15MB
> each. I uploaded them here: http://tinyurl.com/pyuf5b9 They are at
> the bottom of the page with the names Totnes v2a_1, Totnes v2a_2 and
> Totnes v2a_3.
>
> I will interested to know if this works for sharing books with those
> who cannot see them outside the US.
Cris
Wjhonson
May 27, 2013, 8:53:19 PM5/27/13
to d...@donstonetech.com, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
I just want to point out that Bagrat was not
born in 1018 and he did not die in 1072
as the below might lead one to suppose.
Rather he was a hostage to Basil in 1019
and then called "boy" and this is his first
appearance in the record.
Similarly he was "living" in 1072.
His birth year and death year are unknown.
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Stone <d...@donstonetech.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tue, May 21, 2013 10:34 am
Subject: Re: Byzantine question
On 5/20/2013 6:29 PM, Leo van de Pas wrote:
> The future Emperor Romanos III Argyros in 1028 was forced by Emperor
> Constantine VIII to divorce his wife so he could marry the Emperor's
> daughter and so succeed to the throne.
>
> By looking around I found his first wife was Helena and she was forced into
> a convent after their divorce.
>
> Only an unnamed daughter is mentioned who was engaged to Holy Roman Emperor
> Heinrich III
>
> Romanos Argyros lived from 968 to 1034
>
> Bagrat IV of Georgia lived from 1018 to 1072 married as a first wife Helena
> daughter of Romanos Argyros, and from this marriage there are descendants
> till the present.
>
> If Bagrat's wife was younger, she would have been born between 1018 and 1028
> which could make her a daughter of Emperor Romanos III Argyros and his first
> wife Helena.
>
> Can anyone confirm (or deny) this?
>
>
> With many thanks
>
> Leo van de Pas
Leo,
Cyril Toumanoff's _Les dynasties de la Caucasie chrétienne_ (1990), p.
134 (Table 22), says that Bagrat III/IV (1018-1072) of Georgia married
first in 1032/3 Hélène, daughter of Basil Argyros and niece of Emperor
Romanos III Argyros.
-- Don Stone
born in 1018 and he did not die in 1072
as the below might lead one to suppose.
Rather he was a hostage to Basil in 1019
and then called "boy" and this is his first
appearance in the record.
Similarly he was "living" in 1072.
His birth year and death year are unknown.
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Stone <d...@donstonetech.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tue, May 21, 2013 10:34 am
Subject: Re: Byzantine question
> The future Emperor Romanos III Argyros in 1028 was forced by Emperor
> Constantine VIII to divorce his wife so he could marry the Emperor's
> daughter and so succeed to the throne.
>
> By looking around I found his first wife was Helena and she was forced into
> a convent after their divorce.
>
> Only an unnamed daughter is mentioned who was engaged to Holy Roman Emperor
> Heinrich III
>
> Romanos Argyros lived from 968 to 1034
>
> Bagrat IV of Georgia lived from 1018 to 1072 married as a first wife Helena
> daughter of Romanos Argyros, and from this marriage there are descendants
> till the present.
>
> If Bagrat's wife was younger, she would have been born between 1018 and 1028
> which could make her a daughter of Emperor Romanos III Argyros and his first
> wife Helena.
>
> Can anyone confirm (or deny) this?
>
>
> With many thanks
>
> Leo van de Pas
Leo,
Cyril Toumanoff's _Les dynasties de la Caucasie chrétienne_ (1990), p.
134 (Table 22), says that Bagrat III/IV (1018-1072) of Georgia married
first in 1032/3 Hélène, daughter of Basil Argyros and niece of Emperor
Romanos III Argyros.
-- Don Stone
Wjhonson
May 27, 2013, 9:27:28 PM5/27/13
to can...@netspeed.com.au, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
That she was his neice, not daughter
http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/BYZANTIUM.htm#HelenaArgyreMBagratIVGeorgia
-----Original Message-----
From: Leo van de Pas <can...@netspeed.com.au>
To: Gen-Med <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Mon, May 20, 2013 5:29 pm
Subject: Byzantine question
The future Emperor Romanos III Argyros in 1028 was forced by Emperor
Constantine VIII to divorce his wife so he could marry the Emperor's
daughter and so succeed to the throne.
By looking around I found his first wife was Helena and she was forced into
a convent after their divorce.
Only an unnamed daughter is mentioned who was engaged to Holy Roman Emperor
Heinrich III
Romanos Argyros lived from 968 to 1034
Bagrat IV of Georgia lived from 1018 to 1072 married as a first wife Helena
daughter of Romanos Argyros, and from this marriage there are descendants
till the present.
If Bagrat's wife was younger, she would have been born between 1018 and 1028
which could make her a daughter of Emperor Romanos III Argyros and his first
wife Helena.
Can anyone confirm (or deny) this?
With many thanks
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/BYZANTIUM.htm#HelenaArgyreMBagratIVGeorgia
-----Original Message-----
From: Leo van de Pas <can...@netspeed.com.au>
To: Gen-Med <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Mon, May 20, 2013 5:29 pm
Subject: Byzantine question
The future Emperor Romanos III Argyros in 1028 was forced by Emperor
Constantine VIII to divorce his wife so he could marry the Emperor's
daughter and so succeed to the throne.
By looking around I found his first wife was Helena and she was forced into
a convent after their divorce.
Only an unnamed daughter is mentioned who was engaged to Holy Roman Emperor
Heinrich III
Romanos Argyros lived from 968 to 1034
Bagrat IV of Georgia lived from 1018 to 1072 married as a first wife Helena
daughter of Romanos Argyros, and from this marriage there are descendants
till the present.
If Bagrat's wife was younger, she would have been born between 1018 and 1028
which could make her a daughter of Emperor Romanos III Argyros and his first
wife Helena.
Can anyone confirm (or deny) this?
With many thanks
Leo van de Pas
Don Stone
May 27, 2013, 10:00:00 PM5/27/13
to gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Toumanoff (1990, p. 134) says that Bagrat was born in 1018 (no month or
day supplied), so this may be a generally accepted approximation.
However, he says that Bagrat died 14 November 1072. Wikipedia says
Bagrat died on 24 November 1072, referencing David M. Lang's _The
Georgians_ (1966), p. 111. So I have _some_ confidence in 1072 as the
year of death; if I had to know for sure, I would see what Lang says and
perhaps look at other sources.
-- Don Stone
On 5/27/2013 6:53 PM, Wjhonson wrote:
> I just want to point out that Bagrat was not
> born in 1018 and he did not die in 1072
> as the below might lead one to suppose.
>
> Rather he was a hostage to Basil in 1019
> and then called "boy" and this is his first
> appearance in the record.
>
> Similarly he was "living" in 1072.
> His birth year and death year are unknown.
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don Stone <d...@donstonetech.com>
> To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Tue, May 21, 2013 10:34 am
> Subject: Re: Byzantine question
>
> On 5/20/2013 6:29 PM, Leo van de Pas wrote:
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email toGEN-MEDIE...@rootsweb.com <mailto:GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com>
day supplied), so this may be a generally accepted approximation.
However, he says that Bagrat died 14 November 1072. Wikipedia says
Bagrat died on 24 November 1072, referencing David M. Lang's _The
Georgians_ (1966), p. 111. So I have _some_ confidence in 1072 as the
year of death; if I had to know for sure, I would see what Lang says and
perhaps look at other sources.
-- Don Stone
On 5/27/2013 6:53 PM, Wjhonson wrote:
> I just want to point out that Bagrat was not
> born in 1018 and he did not die in 1072
> as the below might lead one to suppose.
>
> Rather he was a hostage to Basil in 1019
> and then called "boy" and this is his first
> appearance in the record.
>
> Similarly he was "living" in 1072.
> His birth year and death year are unknown.
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don Stone <d...@donstonetech.com>
> To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Tue, May 21, 2013 10:34 am
> Subject: Re: Byzantine question
>
> On 5/20/2013 6:29 PM, Leo van de Pas wrote:
> > The future Emperor Romanos III Argyros in 1028 was forced by Emperor
> > Constantine VIII to divorce his wife so he could marry the Emperor's
> > daughter and so succeed to the throne.
> >
> > By looking around I found his first wife was Helena and she was forced into
> > a convent after their divorce.
> >
> > Only an unnamed daughter is mentioned who was engaged to Holy Roman Emperor
> > Heinrich III
> >
> > Romanos Argyros lived from 968 to 1034
> >
> > Bagrat IV of Georgia lived from 1018 to 1072 married as a first wife Helena
> > daughter of Romanos Argyros, and from this marriage there are descendants
> > till the present.
> >
> > If Bagrat's wife was younger, she would have been born between 1018 and 1028
> > which could make her a daughter of Emperor Romanos III Argyros and his first
> > wife Helena.
> >
> > Can anyone confirm (or deny) this?
> >
> >
> > With many thanks
> >
> > Leo van de Pas
>
> > Constantine VIII to divorce his wife so he could marry the Emperor's
> > daughter and so succeed to the throne.
> >
> > By looking around I found his first wife was Helena and she was forced into
> > a convent after their divorce.
> >
> > Only an unnamed daughter is mentioned who was engaged to Holy Roman Emperor
> > Heinrich III
> >
> > Romanos Argyros lived from 968 to 1034
> >
> > Bagrat IV of Georgia lived from 1018 to 1072 married as a first wife Helena
> > daughter of Romanos Argyros, and from this marriage there are descendants
> > till the present.
> >
> > If Bagrat's wife was younger, she would have been born between 1018 and 1028
> > which could make her a daughter of Emperor Romanos III Argyros and his first
> > wife Helena.
> >
> > Can anyone confirm (or deny) this?
> >
> >
> > With many thanks
> >
> > Leo van de Pas
>
> Leo,
>
> Cyril Toumanoff's _Les dynasties de la Caucasie chrétienne_ (1990), p.
> 134 (Table 22), says that Bagrat III/IV (1018-1072) of Georgia married
> first in 1032/3 Hélène, daughter of Basil Argyros and niece of Emperor
> Romanos III Argyros.
>
> -- Don Stone
>
>
> -------------------------------
>
> Cyril Toumanoff's _Les dynasties de la Caucasie chrétienne_ (1990), p.
> 134 (Table 22), says that Bagrat III/IV (1018-1072) of Georgia married
> first in 1032/3 Hélène, daughter of Basil Argyros and niece of Emperor
> Romanos III Argyros.
>
> -- Don Stone
>
>
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email toGEN-MEDIE...@rootsweb.com <mailto:GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com>
Wjhonson
May 28, 2013, 10:36:56 AM5/28/13
to d...@donstonetech.com, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
There is some dicussion on this birthyear question
in Medlands where he points out (obtusely) that
part of the issue is determining exactly when the father
died as the son is said to be "nine" at that time.
So it's a dependent year, one based on the other
chicken and egg.
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com
in Medlands where he points out (obtusely) that
part of the issue is determining exactly when the father
died as the son is said to be "nine" at that time.
So it's a dependent year, one based on the other
chicken and egg.
0 new messages