Princess Diana's continuing Philipps ascent
wjhonson
http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00027835&tree=LEO
we see that Sir John Philipps of Picton Castle who was 1st Bnt
and his parents there listed as Morgan Philipps and Elizabeth Fletcher
but without any further ascent.
We can go further, by realizing that Picton was in this family before
Morgan held it.
Actually Morgan held it after being heir-male of his elder brother
William who had married Jenet Perrot, daughter of Sir Thomas Perrot of
Haraldstone and his wife Mary Berkeley. Jenet was the sister of that
Sir John Perrot rumoured at the time to have been the illegitimate son
of Henry VIII, or so many websites will state. Thomas Perrot was
knighted by H8 at Thomas' wedding to Mary Berkeley. Mary is of royal
blood, being an eighth generation descent in at least three different
ways from Edward I.
William Philipps and Mary Berkeley had only daughters who survived.
One Elizabeth married George Owen who was Lord of Cemais, co Pemb, and
himself being the son of Elizabeth Herbert, daughter of Sir George
Herbert of Swansea by his wife Elizabeth Berkeley. All of royal
descent.
George Owen's father William Owen, on the other hand was a new man,
having purchased the lordship of Cemais in 1543.
The parents of these brothers William and Morgan Philipps were John
Philipps, server of the chamber and lord of Haverfordwest (died 1551)
by his wife Elizabeth Griffith. Her father was Sir William Griffith
of Penrhrn, although I'm not certain which one of that name.
John Philipps in turn was the son of Thomas Philipps of Kilsant, co
Carm; esquire to the body of H7, by his wife Joan Dwnn, heiress of her
father Henry.
So this adds a few more generations to the ascent of Princess Diana.
Will Johnson
John
> On Leo's great website herehttp://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00027835&tree=LEO
> we see that Sir John Philipps of Picton Castle who was 1st Bnt
> and his parents there listed as Morgan Philipps and Elizabeth Fletcher
> but without any further ascent.
>
> We can go further, by realizing that Picton was in this family before
> Morgan held it.
>
>
> The parents of these brothers William and Morgan Philipps were John
> Philipps, server of the chamber and lord of Haverfordwest (died 1551)
> by his wife Elizabeth Griffith. Her father was Sir William Griffith
> of Penrhrn, although I'm not certain which one of that name.
>
> John Philipps in turn was the son of Thomas Philipps of Kilsant, co
> Carm; esquire to the body of H7, by his wife Joan Dwnn, heiress of her
> father Henry.
>
> So this adds a few more generations to the ascent of Princess Diana.
>
> Will Johnson
The Philipps ancestry can be taken back a considerable number of
generations further by looking in any recent edition of BP under the
title of Viscount Saint Davids. The BP article will also answer your
question of which Sir William Griffith of Penrhyn was the father of
Elizabeth Griffith, wife of John Philipps.
Elizabeth Griffith is of course of royal descent, and her husband John
Philipps may also have a royal Plantagenet descent, but the latter
depends on a couple of Welsh connections which are uncertain o0r have
been questioned.
tom
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hi John,
I wonder if you might be more specific regarding the "couple of
Welsh connections".
Any expansion would be appriciated.
Regards
Tom Dunn, Kilbrittain, Co. Cork, Ireland
John
Ten generations prior to John Philipps, one of his ancestors is
Angharad, wife of Maelgwn Ieuanc [aka Maelgwn Fychan] ap Maelgwn Hen,
and daughter of Llywelyn ab Iorwerth, Prince of North Wales. One of
Llywelyn's wives (and probably the only one by whom he had legitimate
issue) was Joan, the illegitimate daughter of King John of England.
Some older publications have assigned Angharad as a daughter of Joan
(and thus given a royal descent to Angharad's children), but there
seems to be no documentary evidence to support this assignment.
The matter of the maternity of all Llyweyn's daughters is well covered
in a 1980 article by William Addams Reitwiesner in vol. 1 of TG ["The
Genealogist"]. He reaches this conclusion: "Until some specific
documentary evidence is found, the mothers of Llywelyn's daughters
must be shown as 'unknown', at least as Joan is concerned, and any
descents from Joan through these daughters must be regarded as
'unproven'."
I had previously that there was another weak Welsh connection later in
this line to John Philipps, but upon re-checking it appears to be
supported (insofar as it can be) by Bartrum's Welsh Genealogies.