New Henry Project pages
Stewart Baldwin
much on the Henry Project, I have finally gotten back to making some (slow)
progress on the Henry Project over the last several months, and I have
uploaded some new pages to the website. Most of the new pages are for the
Anglo-Saxon kings and their in-laws. There have also been some significant
revisions on some of the later Scottish pages (e.g., Malcolm III, Duncan I,
Suthen). The new pages are:
Ealhmund of Kent
Ecgbeorht of Wessex
�thelwulf of Wessex
Osburh, his wife
Oslac, her father
�lfred the Great
Ealhswith, his wife
�thelred Mucil, her father
Eadburh, his wife
�lfthryth, wife of Baldwin II
Eadweard the Elder
Eadgifu, his wife
Sigehelm, her father
Eadmund I
�lfgifu, his wife
Wynfl�d, her mother
Eadgar
�lfthryth, his wife
Ordgar, her father
�thelred II the Unready
�lfgifu?, his wife
Eadmund II Ironside
Ealdgyth, his wife
Eadweard the Exile
Agatha, his wife (very long)
St. Margaret
Eadgyth/Matilda of Scotland
These web pages are most easily accessed via the index page:
http://sbaldw.home.mindspring.com/hproject/prov/index.htm
or via the ancestor table page:
http://sbaldw.home.mindspring.com/hproject/prov/at.htm
Stewart Baldwin
J Cook
> After more than a year when I was distracted by other things and did not do
> much on the Henry Project, I have finally gotten back to making some (slow)
> progress on the Henry Project over the last several months, and I have
> uploaded some new pages to the website.
Congratulations on this monumental achievement. The light at the end
of this tunnel is surely seen now and you should be exceptionally
proud of the accomplishment.
JC
Nathaniel Taylor
"Stewart Baldwin" <sba...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> After more than a year when I was distracted by other things and did not do
> much on the Henry Project, I have finally gotten back to making some (slow)
> progress on the Henry Project over the last several months, and I have
> uploaded some new pages to the website. Most of the new pages are for the
> Anglo-Saxon kings and their in-laws. There have also been some significant
> revisions on some of the later Scottish pages (e.g., Malcolm III, Duncan I,
> Suthen). The new pages are:
>
> Ealhmund of Kent
> Ecgbeorht of Wessex
> Æthelwulf of Wessex
> Osburh, his wife
> Oslac, her father
> Ælfred the Great
> Ealhswith, his wife
> Æthelred Mucil, her father
> Eadburh, his wife
> Ælfthryth, wife of Baldwin II
> Eadweard the Elder
> Eadgifu, his wife
> Sigehelm, her father
> Eadmund I
> Ælfgifu, his wife
> Wynflæd, her mother
> Eadgar
> Ælfthryth, his wife
> Ordgar, her father
> Æthelred II the Unready
> Ælfgifu?, his wife
> Eadmund II Ironside
> Ealdgyth, his wife
> Eadweard the Exile
> Agatha, his wife (very long)
> St. Margaret
> Eadgyth/Matilda of Scotland
>
> These web pages are most easily accessed via the index page:
>
> http://sbaldw.home.mindspring.com/hproject/prov/index.htm
>
> or via the ancestor table page:
>
> http://sbaldw.home.mindspring.com/hproject/prov/at.htm
>
> Stewart Baldwin
The Agatha page(s) alone is (are) worth the price of admission.
I keep telling people that this is the best database that exists in the
world of medieval genealogy. Thank you, Stewart, for continuing to
blaze this trail -- and for your patience as the rest of us come around
to being ready or able to aid in this effort.
Nat Taylor
a genealogist's sketchbook:
http://www.nltaylor.net/sketchbook/
taf
> After more than a year when I was distracted by other things and did not do
> much on the Henry Project, I have finally gotten back to making some (slow)
> progress on the Henry Project over the last several months, and I have
> uploaded some new pages to the website. Most of the new pages are for the
> Anglo-Saxon kings and their in-laws. There have also been some significant
> revisions on some of the later Scottish pages (e.g., Malcolm III, Duncan I,
> Suthen). The new pages are:
> Eadweard the Elder
Some notes on this:
I am not entirely sanguine that the wife of Sihtric was daughter of
Ecgwynn, given the late and contradictory record, and the debatable
stories told of Ecgwynn's relationship with the king. This is
particularly the case when ASC places her marriage (or at least the
agreement leading to it) 30 Jan. 925, yet Roger of Wendover (whose
account of the daughters should perhaps be incorporated more
generally) indicates that she was still a virgin at the time of his
death a year later, suggesting that it was a child-marriage and that
she was much younger than AEthelstan. It is possible (well, given the
circumstances, likely, but not necessarily about this particular item)
he is confused. Roger seems to have special knowledge of her, giving
her fate and the date, 15 Sep., of her death at Pollesbury (although
not the year). It seems likely to me that too much has perhaps been
read (even by Malmesbury) into her being called "sister" of
AEthelstan, and I would say it's a tossup between Ecgwynn and
AElfflaed.
A charter of Edward the Elder (Sawyer #S 366), thought based on an
authentic original is witnessed by Elfredus filius regis. However the
previous charter (S 365) has Aelfwerd at a similar position. This may
tie to the confusion in the Hyde source.
If I recall correctly (you will have to forgive me, as I last looked
at this in about 1982), the Larousse Encyclopedia from the early 20th
century gives a table for the Ethiconids that includes the marriage of
Eadgifu to Eberhard of Nordgau, perhaps representing (perhaps through
intermediates) Weir's derivation.
I have read the Numismatic article on Boleslaw (thanks to WAR, who
supplied it to me back in the early days of the newsgroup).
Unfortunately, that was two moves ago, and I haven't relocated it yet.
From memory, it reports a coin of unknown date with characteristics
the author suggests reflect English moneyers, and which is inscribed
with VDIVA, interpreted as representing Adiva. He then equates this
Queen Adiva with the documented Queen Emma of Boleslaw II.
> Agatha, his wife (very long)
There are earlier instances of both the German (Georgio Pray, 1764,
Annales Regum Hungariae, see also Istvan Katona, 1779, Historia
Critica Regum Hungariae) and Hungarian (Daniel Cornides, 1778, Regum
Hungariae) solutions that probably merit mention. (Both are quoted by
Herzog.)
taf
Peter Stewart
"taf" <t...@clearwire.net> wrote in message
news:bed5bee4-573e-40e3...@11g2000prv.googlegroups.com...
<snip>
> If I recall correctly (you will have to forgive me, as I last looked
> at this in about 1982), the Larousse Encyclopedia from the early
> 20th century gives a table for the Ethiconids that includes the
> marriage of Eadgifu to Eberhard of Nordgau, perhaps representing
> (perhaps through intermediates) Weir's derivation.
This conjecture goes back at least to the 18th century, if not to the 17th
or earlier.
Rudolph Coronini von Cronberg stated that Eberhard (i.e. the Etichonid,
count in the Alsatian Nordgau) married the sister of Otto the Great's first
wife Eadgyth. However, the only authority given for this was that Otto's
father Heinrich allegedly called this Eberhard his "propinquus" - which
would be a rather odd contortion of terms, if true [see _Specimen
genealogico-progonologicum ad illustrandam augustam Habsburgo-Lotharingicam
prosapiam_ (Vienna, 1770), p. 20: "Eberhardus IV Alsatiae Comes Hugonis I
filius primogenitus conjugio sibi copulavit Eadivam Anglorum Regis filiam,
sororem Edgitae Uxoris Ottonis M. Romanorum Imperatoris; quae conjunctio
haud dubie causa fuerit, quod subinde Henricus Auceps Imperator Eberhardum
nostrum propinquum suum appellaverit"].
But the Eberhard described as "propinquus" in charters of Heinrich was
explicitly the count in Salland (" in Salalant pago"), and was most probably
the son of Eberhard Saxo of Hamaland, duke in Frisia. This Eberhard's only
known wife was Amalrada of Ringelheim, and their only recorded offspring was
Theuderic, bishop of Metz (died 984).
Coronini went on to muddle the descent from the Etichonid Eberhard and his
supposed wife, mixing them up with the family of the counts of Metz,
confusing matters a good deal further though that has not stopped others
from cherry-picking the alleged English connection.
His main source for most of the early genealogy of the Hapsburgs was Johann
Ludwig Schönleben's _Dissertatio polemica de prima origine augustae domus
Habsburgo-Austriacae_ (Laibach, 1630), which I have not seen - NB this work
was not cited for the information about Eberhard.
Peter Stewart
Peter Stewart
"Peter Stewart" <pss...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:M6ATn.3854$Ls1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Apologies - I copied two mistakes from the German Wikipedia page
(http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Ludwig_Sch%C3%B6nleben) for the
following title, corrected here:
Johann Ludwig Schönleben, _Dissertatio polemica de prima origine
augustissimae domus Habsburgo-Austriacae_ (Laibach, 1680).
Schönleben turned 12 years old in 1630.
Peter Stewart
joe c
> "Peter Stewart" <pss...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
> Apologies - I copied two mistakes from the German Wikipedia page
> (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Ludwig_Sch%C3%B6nleben) for the
> following title, corrected here:
> Johann Ludwig Schönleben, _Dissertatio polemica de prima origine
> augustissimae domus Habsburgo-Austriacae_ (Laibach, 1680)
> Schönleben turned 12 years old in 1630.
And now I've corrected the wikipedia page as well; so all is again
right with the world.
Regards,
JC
Peter Stewart
"joe c" <joey...@mail.com> wrote in message
news:e01e7a34-9d62-4869...@u26g2000yqu.googlegroups.com...
I don't have a clue how Wikipedia editing works - or is supposed to work -
but your effort seems to have been in vain, since the same mistakes are
still showing on the page today.
Peter Stewart
Denis Beauregard
wrote in soc.genealogy.medieval:
Usually, you have first to discuss before changing a page.
In other words, to bypass the wiki censors, you have to expose your
evidences and the censors will evaluate your proof before accepting
any change. This page is in German, so it is possible you will have
to argue in German...
In wiki, it is very easy to undo something and if a moron decided he
is right and you are wrong, then you may have some problem to make
your point. But if you proove your point with strong evidences, then
the moron will be forced to accept your point and will be considered
as the wrong guy.
Denis
--
Denis Beauregard - généalogiste émérite (FQSG)
Les Français d'Amérique du Nord - www.francogene.com/genealogie--quebec/
French in North America before 1722 - www.francogene.com/quebec--genealogy/
Sur cédérom à 1775 - On CD-ROM to 1775
Volucris
If Alfred was born in 849 he might have been 4 in 853 or 6 in 855. Is
that not a bit young to testify? I thought that 7 was at that time
(and centuries later) the borderline (on the Continent), the age of
distinction.
Ælfred "the Great"
Ælfred appears in a charter of his father dated 855 (but with an
indiction for 853) ["Ego Elfred fili regis consensi & subscripsi"
Cart. Sax. 2: 62 (#467)],
[snip]
Asser, who is the only source for the statement that Ælfred was born
at Wantage, states that he was born in 849 ["Anno Dominicae
Incarnationis DCCCXLIX natus est Ælfred, Angul-Saxonum rex, in villa
regia, quae dicitur Uuanating, in illa paga, quae nominatur
Berrocscire ..." Asser, c. 1 (p. 1), see also pp. 154-5]. As noted
above, the West Saxon Genealogical Regnal List states that Ælfred was
23 years old when he became king in 871.
Hans Vogels
Stewart Baldwin
"taf" <t...@clearwire.net> wrote in message:
>I am not entirely sanguine that the wife of Sihtric was daughter of
>Ecgwynn, given the late and contradictory record, and the debatable
>stories told of Ecgwynn's relationship with the king. This is
>particularly the case when ASC places her marriage (or at least the
>agreement leading to it) 30 Jan. 925, yet Roger of Wendover (whose
>account of the daughters should perhaps be incorporated more
>generally) indicates that she was still a virgin at the time of his
>death a year later, suggesting that it was a child-marriage and that
>she was much younger than AEthelstan. It is possible (well, given the
>circumstances, likely, but not necessarily about this particular item)
>he is confused. Roger seems to have special knowledge of her, giving
>her fate and the date, 15 Sep., of her death at Pollesbury (although
>not the year). It seems likely to me that too much has perhaps been
>read (even by Malmesbury) into her being called "sister" of
>AEthelstan, and I would say it's a tossup between Ecgwynn and
>AElfflaed.
Having looked this over, I think that you are right, and I plan to make the
change and add Roger's account of Edward's children. I am also composing a
table that will make it easier to compare what different authors say about
his children.
[snip]
>I have read the Numismatic article on Boleslaw (thanks to WAR, who
>supplied it to me back in the early days of the newsgroup).
>Unfortunately, that was two moves ago, and I haven't relocated it yet.
>From memory, it reports a coin of unknown date with characteristics
>the author suggests reflect English moneyers, and which is inscribed
>with VDIVA, interpreted as representing Adiva. He then equates this
>Queen Adiva with the documented Queen Emma of Boleslaw II.
I checked a book on Bohemian coins from Google Books, "Beschreibung der
Sammlung böhmischer Münzen und Medaillen des Max Donebauer" by Eduard Fiala
(Prague, 1889) and I did not find the coin with VDIVA, but there were some
coins of Boleslaw II in Anglo-Saxon (Æthelred II) type (pp. 13-15).
Stewart Baldwin