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Re: William Falkener and his wife Sarah Derippe of North Carolina
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kelsey.jack...@googlemail.com
May 15, 2013, 5:12:11 AM5/15/13
to
This isn't an answer as such, but it's worth noting that the problematic statement in Betham ultimately derives from Joseph Nicolson and Richard Burn's _History and Antiquities of the Counties of Westmorland and Cumberland_ (London, 1777), Vol. II, p. 13, in a genealogy of the lords of Millum in Allerdale. The relevant generation is:
"20. Ferdinand [Hudleston], who married Elizabeth daughter of Lyon Falconer esquire, of Rutlandshire, son of Everard Falconer by Elizabeth daughter of Sir Maurice Tresham, baronet and had issue . . ."
Most other entries in the same genealogy -- which looks as if it might have derived from Ferdinand and Elizabeth's granddaughter Elizabeth who married Sir Hedworth Williamson -- only name the father of wives, so it looks as if whoever compiled it was particularly keen to emphasise their descent from the Treshams, for whatever reason.
All the best,
Kelsey
On Tuesday, 14 May 2013 20:37:01 UTC+1, Johnny Brananas wrote:
> William S. Powell, ed., _Dictionary of North Carolina Biography_
>
> (1986), has entries for both Sarah Derippe Falkener and her husband,
>
> William, who ran a finishing school for young ladies in North Carolina
>
> in the late 18th and early 19th centuries. They were both apparently
>
> immigrants from England, and had an only son, William Augustus Keppel
>
> Falkener, himself ancestor of one of the presidents of the University
>
> of NC (among many others).
>
>
>
> Rev. W.G.D. Fletcher, _Leicestershire Pedigrees and Royal Descents_ ,
>
> p. 49, shows the ancestry of both partners (who were cousins).
>
>
>
> "William [Falkener], went to America (? South Carolina), m. his
>
> cousin ..... Derippe, & had issues 3 sons, all named Lyon, who all d.
>
> young, & William Augustus Kipple [sic], who m. in America, & had 2
>
> sons not heard of since."
>
>
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=VpnC3wgof6gC&pg=PA49&dq=derippe+falkener&hl=en&sa=X&ei=v4uSUaWZOInS9ATemoGQDA&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=derippe%20falkener&f=false
>
>
>
> The Falkeners/ Fawkeners were a line of minor gentry in
>
> Leicestershire/ Rutlandshire. So minor and poorly traced (see the
>
> 1681 Rutland visitation, for instance), that this line probably isn't
>
> worth mentioning to Gary Boyd Roberts.
>
>
>
> However, both Sarah and William were descended from an Everard
>
> Ffalkener of Stoke Dry and Uppingham whose wife, as reported by the
>
> Rev. Fletcher, was "Elizabeth, dau. of Sir Maurice Tresham, Bart.," on
>
> the high authority of Betham's _Baronetage_.
>
>
>
> A chart between pp. 40-41 of _Northamptonshire Notes and Queries_,
>
> vol. 2 (1888), claims this Elizabeth Tresham wife of Falkener was
>
> daughter of an otherwise unknown "last" Baronet, Sir Maurice, brother
>
> of Sir William Tresham (d. 1642), usually named as the last Bart. See
>
> the accompanying short article, as well.
>
>
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=-PIGAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA42&dq=maurice+tresham+falkener&hl=en&sa=X&ei=RY-SUaS5N4H49gT_noCYDg&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=maurice%20tresham%20falkener&f=false
>
>
>
> This would make Elizabeth the wife of Falkener a descendant of Sir
>
> Thomas Tresham and his wife Muriel Throckmorton (who has several royal
>
> lines).
>
>
>
> However, volume 1 of Cokayne's _Complete Baronetage_, sub "Tresham,"
>
> brings the Northamtonshire N & Q article into question, pointing out
>
> that there is no evidence, besides Betham's work, for a last Tresham
>
> baronet named Maurice, and pointing out a number of other Maurice
>
> Treshams in existence.
>
>
>
> http://archive.org/stream/cu31924092524374#page/n7/mode/2up
>
>
>
> As Everard Falkener and his wife Elizabeth had a son Maurice baptised
>
> at Uppingham in 1659, there is probably some Tresham connection. But
>
> what is it exactly?
"20. Ferdinand [Hudleston], who married Elizabeth daughter of Lyon Falconer esquire, of Rutlandshire, son of Everard Falconer by Elizabeth daughter of Sir Maurice Tresham, baronet and had issue . . ."
Most other entries in the same genealogy -- which looks as if it might have derived from Ferdinand and Elizabeth's granddaughter Elizabeth who married Sir Hedworth Williamson -- only name the father of wives, so it looks as if whoever compiled it was particularly keen to emphasise their descent from the Treshams, for whatever reason.
All the best,
Kelsey
On Tuesday, 14 May 2013 20:37:01 UTC+1, Johnny Brananas wrote:
> William S. Powell, ed., _Dictionary of North Carolina Biography_
>
> (1986), has entries for both Sarah Derippe Falkener and her husband,
>
> William, who ran a finishing school for young ladies in North Carolina
>
> in the late 18th and early 19th centuries. They were both apparently
>
> immigrants from England, and had an only son, William Augustus Keppel
>
> Falkener, himself ancestor of one of the presidents of the University
>
> of NC (among many others).
>
>
>
> Rev. W.G.D. Fletcher, _Leicestershire Pedigrees and Royal Descents_ ,
>
> p. 49, shows the ancestry of both partners (who were cousins).
>
>
>
> "William [Falkener], went to America (? South Carolina), m. his
>
> cousin ..... Derippe, & had issues 3 sons, all named Lyon, who all d.
>
> young, & William Augustus Kipple [sic], who m. in America, & had 2
>
> sons not heard of since."
>
>
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=VpnC3wgof6gC&pg=PA49&dq=derippe+falkener&hl=en&sa=X&ei=v4uSUaWZOInS9ATemoGQDA&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=derippe%20falkener&f=false
>
>
>
> The Falkeners/ Fawkeners were a line of minor gentry in
>
> Leicestershire/ Rutlandshire. So minor and poorly traced (see the
>
> 1681 Rutland visitation, for instance), that this line probably isn't
>
> worth mentioning to Gary Boyd Roberts.
>
>
>
> However, both Sarah and William were descended from an Everard
>
> Ffalkener of Stoke Dry and Uppingham whose wife, as reported by the
>
> Rev. Fletcher, was "Elizabeth, dau. of Sir Maurice Tresham, Bart.," on
>
> the high authority of Betham's _Baronetage_.
>
>
>
> A chart between pp. 40-41 of _Northamptonshire Notes and Queries_,
>
> vol. 2 (1888), claims this Elizabeth Tresham wife of Falkener was
>
> daughter of an otherwise unknown "last" Baronet, Sir Maurice, brother
>
> of Sir William Tresham (d. 1642), usually named as the last Bart. See
>
> the accompanying short article, as well.
>
>
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=-PIGAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA42&dq=maurice+tresham+falkener&hl=en&sa=X&ei=RY-SUaS5N4H49gT_noCYDg&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=maurice%20tresham%20falkener&f=false
>
>
>
> This would make Elizabeth the wife of Falkener a descendant of Sir
>
> Thomas Tresham and his wife Muriel Throckmorton (who has several royal
>
> lines).
>
>
>
> However, volume 1 of Cokayne's _Complete Baronetage_, sub "Tresham,"
>
> brings the Northamtonshire N & Q article into question, pointing out
>
> that there is no evidence, besides Betham's work, for a last Tresham
>
> baronet named Maurice, and pointing out a number of other Maurice
>
> Treshams in existence.
>
>
>
> http://archive.org/stream/cu31924092524374#page/n7/mode/2up
>
>
>
> As Everard Falkener and his wife Elizabeth had a son Maurice baptised
>
> at Uppingham in 1659, there is probably some Tresham connection. But
>
> what is it exactly?
kelsey.jack...@googlemail.com
May 15, 2013, 5:18:37 AM5/15/13
to
Also, I'm intrigued by the claim in Fletcher (p. 48) that Elizabeth Tresham was "cousin to John Aubrey". Presumably this derives ultimately from Aubrey's account of Venetia Stanley, for which one of his sources was "my cosen Elizabeth Falkner" (John Aubrey, _Brief Lives_, 2 vols., ed. Andrew Clark [Oxford, 1898], i. 231), but it's not clear to me why Fletcher associates Aubrey's cousin with Elizabeth (Tresham) Falkener. If they _are_ the same, then her cousinhood to Aubrey -- whose ancestry is quite well-known -- might help clarify this issue.
Message has been deleted
kelsey.jack...@googlemail.com
May 15, 2013, 1:07:43 PM5/15/13
to
I think the biographer is meant, but I'm not sure I buy the identification of the two Elizabeth Falkeners. Looking at the relevant visitations and the comments in the _Complete Baronetage_ I'm inclined to think that the phantom baronet is more than likely Maurice Tresham of Geddington, Northants., who married Muriel *sister* of Sir Lewis Tresham, 1st Baronet, but it would be quite nice to see some evidence of this. I note that both Sir Lewis's Spanish wife and "Dame Muriell Tresham" left PCC wills which might, perhaps, identify Elizabeth (Tresham) Falkener.
All the best,
Kelsey
On Wednesday, 15 May 2013 17:54:07 UTC+1, Johnny Brananas wrote:
> Kelsey, thanks for clarifying about John Aubrey. I wasn't sure if
>
> this was the famous biographer or just some local personage with the
>
> same name.
>
>
>
> It does seem odd that this lady from Uppingham would know much about
>
> Venetia Stanley. Maybe we should invent a wife, a member of the
>
> Stanley family, for Maurice Tresham, "last" Bart.??
All the best,
Kelsey
On Wednesday, 15 May 2013 17:54:07 UTC+1, Johnny Brananas wrote:
> Kelsey, thanks for clarifying about John Aubrey. I wasn't sure if
>
> this was the famous biographer or just some local personage with the
>
> same name.
>
>
>
> It does seem odd that this lady from Uppingham would know much about
>
> Venetia Stanley. Maybe we should invent a wife, a member of the
>
> Stanley family, for Maurice Tresham, "last" Bart.??
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