M Balard: "Les Latins en Orient (XIe-XVe siècle)", 2006, 71, lists the Montolieu family, who held Chastel Rouge, as one of the Provençal families who dominated the settlment of the county of Tripoli. Balard does not mention any Montolif.
> M Balard: "Les Latins en Orient (XIe-XVe siècle)", 2006, 71, lists the Montolieu family, who held Chastel Rouge, as one of the Provençal families who dominated the settlment of the county of Tripoli. Balard does not mention any Montolif.
> The family of Montolif is outlined in Du Cange "Les familles d’Outre-mer", ed Rey, 1869, pp 557-564, see
Many, many thanks for that. It will take time to absorb. But there does seem to be a connection between Montolif and Montolieu. We seem to acknowledge that the Montolieu family held Chastel Rouge until 1177 when the castle was passsed to the Order of St. John. As I posted above, in November 1178 - 'Raymundus de Montolif et frater ejus renuntiant omnia jura quae habent in Castellum Rubrum quae possederant et Raymundus, comes Tripolitanus, Hospitali concesserat ex cambio CCCC bisantiorum [400 bezants].', 'Cartulary of the Hospitallers of Saint John of Jerusalem', Book I, pp. 371-372, no. 549; Reinhold Rohricht, 'Regesta Regni Hierosolymitani', Innsbruck, 1893, Add., p. 35, no. 562a. This would seem to indicate that Monolif and Montolieu are the same family. What do you think?
actually states that the family were indifferently known as Montolif, Montolieu, de Monte Olivarum, de Monte Olivo, Montolivo or de Mont Oliu, being the name of a small village in Laguedoc where the family came from, being originally from Marseille. So it seems to be clear that we are dealing with branches of the same family. What does 'Nous n'oserions 'l'affirmer' (on that page) mean?
> actually states that the family were indifferently known as Montolif, Montolieu, de Monte Olivarum, de Monte Olivo, Montolivo or de Mont Oliu, being the name of a small village in Laguedoc where the family came from, being originally from Marseille. So it seems to be clear that we are dealing with branches of the same family. What does 'Nous n'oserions 'l'affirmer' (on that page) mean?
Essentially that there isn't enough evidence to be sure. In an idiomatic form - We wouldn't go that far.
-----Original Message-----
From: Graham Milne <grahammilne...@btinternet.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-medie...@rootsweb.com>
Cc: gen-medieval <gen-medie...@rootsweb.com>; Graham Milne <grahammilne...@btinternet.com>
Sent: Tue, Oct 30, 2012 6:10 am
Subject: Re: Beatrix of Jerusalem d.o. Guy de Lusignan
actually states that the family were indifferently known as Montolif, Montolieu, de Monte Olivarum, de Monte Olivo, Montolivo or de Mont Oliu, being the name of a small village in Laguedoc where the family came from, being originally from Marseille. So it seems to be clear that we are dealing with branches of the same family. What does 'Nous n'oserions 'l'affirmer' (on that page) mean?
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-----Original Message-----
From: David Topping <davidt...@gmail.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-medie...@rootsweb.com>
Cc: gen-medieval <gen-medie...@rootsweb.com>; Graham Milne <grahammilne...@btinternet.com>
Sent: Tue, Oct 30, 2012 7:21 am
Subject: Re: Beatrix of Jerusalem d.o. Guy de Lusignan
On Tuesday, 30 October 2012 13:09:16 UTC, Graham Milne wrote:
> PS
> actually states that the family were indifferently known as Montolif, Montolieu, de Monte Olivarum, de Monte Olivo, Montolivo or de Mont Oliu, being the name of a small village in Laguedoc where the family came from, being originally from Marseille. So it seems to be clear that we are dealing with branches of the same family. What does 'Nous n'oserions 'l'affirmer' (on that page) mean?
Essentially that there isn't enough evidence to be sure. In an idiomatic form - We wouldn't go that far.
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I have written to the Austrian state archives to try to obtain a copy of the letters patent of 1706. It would be nice to resurrect the title (which looks as though it would go to the Stopford family).
