Sarah Ferguson, Duchess of York's continued Stringer/Newton ascent
wjhonson
position 504 (and also position 510) William FitzWilliam (1719-1756),
3rd Earl FitzWilliam
On Leo's most excellent website we see this man here
http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00081994&tree=LEO
and note that in his ascent he has a grandfather "John Stringer of
Sutton upon Lound" with no further particulars.
John Stringer, esq of Sutton-cum-Lound, Notts was born sometime
between 1666 and 1684. He married Elizabeth Pelham, bap 1 Sep 1680 on
6 Jul 1699 at St Pancras, London and they had their only surviving
child Anne sometime between 1700 and 1704 who married John
FitzWilliam, 2nd Earl FitzWilliam on 17 Sep 1718
John Stringer was the son of Francis Stringer, esq of Sutton-cum-Lound
by his wife Elizabeth Newton. There is a Patron Sheet submission in
the IGI stating that their marriage took place on 30 Nov 1665 at
Haydor, co Lincs. which at seems seems like a likely time and county
as her parents were of that county.
Francis bap Apr 1633 at Sutton cum Lound was the son of Nicholas
Stringer of that place, by his wife Alice South whom he had married 5
Mar 1630/1 at Kelstern where she had been baptised 3 Mar 1608.
Other than Francis they had at least one other child Anne who married
Sir Thomas Hutton of Nether Poppleton and had issue.
Meanwhile Elizabeth Newton was the daughter of John Newton, 2nd Bart
of Barrs Court, co Gloucs and of Gunwardby, co Linc . John had been
born 9 Jun 1626 and died 31 May 1699 and is buried at Bitton, Gloucs.
Elizabeth's mother was Mary Eyre daughter of Sir Gervase Eyre by his
wife Elizabeth Babington.
By this route Elizabeth Newton is a 16th generation descendent of the
English throne.
There is some more known ascent to the South family from this point
that I had casually glanced at prior to finding the evidences of this
ascent, but didn't copy out. It's in one of the Vis, I'll have to
look again for it.
This new line adds some interesting new ancestry for Sarah Ferguson.
Will Johnson
wjhonson
(ancestress of Sarah Ferguson, Duchess of York), the wife of William
3rd Lord FitzWilliam, had further known ascent through one of her
great-grandmothers Alice South. I had said that I'd seen it in one of
the Vis. I believe where I saw it was actually in the Leics. Ped.
Interestingly it runs head-first into one of the families I'd
researched long ago, the Welbys of Moulton.
Alice South "Eldest daughter" bap 3 May 1608 at Kelstern married
Nicholas Stringer esq of Sutton-cum-Lound, Notts on 5 Mar 1630/1631 at
Kelstern.
Alice was the daughter of Francis South, Knt of Fotherby and Kelstern
by his *second* wife Anne Irby. They had married 9 Jun 1606 at
Whaplode which is where her father was then living.
Sir Francis South and Anne Irby had exactly or at least eleven
children (in 13 years!) before her untimely ? death 12 May 1620
Sir Francis South had married firstly Elizabeth Meres by whom he had
four daughters only, but the two eldest died as infants. The two
remaining, Barbara South bap 1603 married Everard Buckworth of White
Hall and Frances South bap 1604 married David Skipwith of Utterby.
By this second wife Anne Irby, Sir Francis South had his son and heir
Sir John South of Kelstern, who would marry up by wedding Margaret
Clifton, daughter of Gervase Clifton Bart of Clifton Hall by his wife
Frances Clifford.
Frances Clifford's father, was at that time the Earl of Cumberland, so
this was quite a step up for the South family. Sir John South and
Margaret Clifton married by 1637 as their eldest child Clifton was
bapt 18 Nov 1637 at Kelstern and died, probably there as well, by 1648
Another child by Anne Irby, Anne South married "Gervase Clifton, Knt
of Clifton". I am not yet sure if this means here that she married
her brother-in-law ? or did she marry her brother's father-in-law ?
At any rate Anne (South) Clifton d.s.p. 1639
Another child by Anne Irby, Joan South, married William Jessop of
Broom Hall; and her brother Charles South married Sarah Butler,
daughter of Gregory.
So much for that generation.
Alice (South) Stringers four grandparents were:
John South of Keelby and of Fotherby died 17 Apr 1591 buried at Keelby
Alice Twidale bur 4 May 1605 aet 60 Keelby, Will dated 27 Apr 1605,
proved (CPC) 19 Jun 1605
Anthony Irby of Whaplode died Sep 1625
Alice Welby died Apr 1602
Anthony Irby and Alice Welby were also the parents of that Sir Anthony
Irby who in Feb 1603 married Elizabeth Peyton and were thus ancestral
to Sarah Ferguson by further descent.
Leo has the marriage of Anthony Irby to Alice Welby and a date of 22
Dec 1575.
Alice Welby's ascent can then be traced in 12 steps back to the
English throne through her mother, or 14 steps through her father.
Will Johnson
jhigg...@yahoo.com
On Jul 2, 1:23 pm, wjhonson <wjhon...@aol.com> wrote:
> In my continuing series on the ancestry of Sarah Ferguson, we come to
> position 504 (and also position 510) William FitzWilliam (1719-1756),
> 3rd Earl FitzWilliam
>
> On Leo's most excellent website we see this man herehttp://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00081994&tree=LEO
>
> and note that in his ascent he has a grandfather "John Stringer of
> Sutton upon Lound" with no further particulars.
>
> John Stringer, esq of Sutton-cum-Lound, Notts was born sometime
> between 1666 and 1684. He married Elizabeth Pelham, bap 1 Sep 1680 on
> 6 Jul 1699 at St Pancras, London and they had their only surviving
> child Anne sometime between 1700 and 1704 who married John
> FitzWilliam, 2nd Earl FitzWilliam on 17 Sep 1718
There are, of course, a great number of royal lines for Elizabeth
Pelham....see Leo's site for a beginning.
>
> John Stringer was the son of Francis Stringer, esq of Sutton-cum-Lound
> by his wife Elizabeth Newton. There is a Patron Sheet submission in
> the IGI stating that their marriage took place on 30 Nov 1665 at
> Haydor, co Lincs. which at seems seems like a likely time and county
> as her parents were of that county.
>
> Francis bap Apr 1633 at Sutton cum Lound was the son of Nicholas
> Stringer of that place, by his wife Alice South whom he had married 5
> Mar 1630/1 at Kelstern where she had been baptised 3 Mar 1608.
The Stringer line can be carried back about four generations further
via the Visitations of Nottinghamshire (HSP v. 4, available on Google
Books) and in a more complete pedigree in "Hunter's Pedigrees" (HSP v.
88, snippet view only on Google).
>
> Other than Francis they had at least one other child Anne who married
> Sir Thomas Hutton of Nether Poppleton and had issue.
Anne Stringer and Thomas Hutton are ancestors of Princess Diana.
>
> Meanwhile Elizabeth Newton was the daughter of John Newton, 2nd Bart
> of Barrs Court, co Gloucs and of Gunwardby, co Linc . John had been
> born 9 Jun 1626 and died 31 May 1699 and is buried at Bitton, Gloucs.
> Elizabeth's mother was Mary Eyre daughter of Sir Gervase Eyre by his
> wife Elizabeth Babington.
>
> By this route Elizabeth Newton is a 16th generation descendent of the
> English throne.
>
> There is some more known ascent to the South family from this point
> that I had casually glanced at prior to finding the evidences of this
> ascent, but didn't copy out. It's in one of the Vis, I'll have to
> look again for it.
Take a look at various volumes of Maddison's Lincolnshire Pedigrees
(HSP vols. 50-52 and 55). However, the royal connection which can be
constructed there (via Thimbleby, Welby, and Irby to South) is likely
invalid, because the chronology suggests that Anne Welby, wife of
Anthony Irby, was apparently daughter of Charles Welby by an unknown
wife other than Elizabeth Thimbleby.
jhigg...@yahoo.com
[snip]
> Alice (South) Stringers four grandparents were:
>
> John South of Keelby and of Fotherby died 17 Apr 1591 buried at Keelby
>
> Alice Twidale bur 4 May 1605 aet 60 Keelby, Will dated 27 Apr 1605,
> proved (CPC) 19 Jun 1605
>
> Anthony Irby of Whaplode died Sep 1625
>
> Alice Welby died Apr 1602
>
> Anthony Irby and Alice Welby were also the parents of that Sir Anthony
> Irby who in Feb 1603 married Elizabeth Peyton and were thus ancestral
> to Sarah Ferguson by further descent.
>
> Leo has the marriage of Anthony Irby to Alice Welby and a date of 22
> Dec 1575.
>
> Alice Welby's ascent can then be traced in 12 steps back to the
> English throne through her mother, or 14 steps through her father.
>
> Will Johnson
In another post in this thread, I mentioned that there was some
question whether Alice Welby, wife of Anthony Irby, was the daughter
of Thomas Welby by Elizabeth Thimbleby (who was of royal descent) or
by an unknown first wife of Thomas Welby.
I think the argument for this is that Alice (said to be the third
daughter) was married in 1575 and is said to have already been a widow
of NN Tasher. Also, her next elder sister Mary is said to have mar.
in 1572. Since Thomas Welby and Elizabeth Thimbleby married in 1560,
either Thomas was very big into child marriages (presumably including
his 1st daughter Katherine who mar. Sir Robert Pulvertoft), or there
must have been a first wife who was the mother of these daughters.
Obviously this could be resolved if baptismal records could be found
for these daughters. FWIW, Douglas Richardson in RPA and MCA reaches
the same conclusion regarding an known first wife (not that this makes
it right, of course!). But, if so, the royal connection through Alice
Welby's mother disappears.
What is the royal connection for Thomas Welby? I know that he has
Thimbleby ancestry himself, but I can't immediately connect him to his
[known] wife's Thmbleby relations, which would hive him a royal
descent [or two].
wjhonson
> > Other than Francis they had at least one other child Anne who married
> > Sir Thomas Hutton of Nether Poppleton and had issue.
>
> Anne Stringer and Thomas Hutton are ancestors of Princess Diana.
>
Leo does not have this connection whatever it is, can you give a bit
more of it?
Thanks
Will Johnson
wjhonson
> What is the royal connection for Thomas Welby? I know that he has
> Thimbleby ancestry himself, but I can't immediately connect him to his
> [known] wife's Thmbleby relations, which would hive him a royal
>
> - Show quoted text -
-------------
Hmm I have something wrong here, but here goes.
Thomas Welby of Moulton son of
Catherine Bray, daughter of
Joan Halliwell, daughter of
Jane Norbury
having said that, the chronology needs to be fixed up in my database
because something is screwy.
Kinda like you said with the Welby connection.
I need to go back and review the documentation (as it is) and see if I
can fix these connections better.
Will Johnson
jhigg...@yahoo.com
According to Maddison's Lincolnshire Pedigrees (HSP 55:1313),
Catherine Bray was the dau. of Thomas [or John] Bray of Middlesex. In
1524 she was the executrix for the will of her late husband Thomas
Welby, who was declared a lunatic in 1521 (having made a will dated 6
Sept 1520 - while he was still sane?) and had been 8 years old in
1496. Catherine remarried NN Hall.
Joan/Jane Halliwell was the wife of Sir Edmund Bray, 1st lord Bray -
not Thomas or John Bray.
jhigg...@yahoo.com
Their daughter Elizabeth Hutton mar. Thomas Dawson, Lord Mayor of York
(d. 1703/4). Leo has this couple and the remaining descent.
wjhonson
motherhood if she is to be the daughter of Elizabeth Thimelby.
The boundary is set by
A) Thomas Welby of Moulton married Elizabeth Thimelby 20 Jul 1560
B) Alice was already a "Mrs Tash, widow" when she married Anthony Irby
on 22 Dec 1575
C) They had a child in 1576 or 1577 (two sources are conflicting here)
That Alice is a Welby, and is a daughter of a Thomas Welby of Moulton,
esq cannot be questioned. This is because her own son, states this on
his own MI, or rather the MI was probably put up by Alice's grandson.
But at any rate, that seems the least likely to be in error here.
Anthony Irby's birthrange is wide-open, I know nothing useful to pin
it down. His father Thomas was buried at Whaplode 30 Apr 1561.
Anthony had at least five (not four) sisters and he himself had a son
born in 1576 or 1577.
As for Alice Welbye, if we believe A) above then we also have to face
that Jane (Welby) Ayscough is stated as being bap 26 May 1561 at
Moulton. Alice here is forced to be baptised in 1562, Thomas in 1563
and Richard in 1564 which seems barely possible. And then Alice
married by age 13, widowed, married again and a mother at least once
if not twice by 1577.
My gut feeling is that there is something wrong with "Who are the
parents of Thomas Welby who married Elizabeth Thimelby". Alice is
more likely to be his sister, and both the children of somebody also
named Thomas Welby of Moulton.
Will Johnson
wjhonson
While looking again at this Irby family, I accidently ran into a
Virginian!
A governor no less
http://books.google.com/books?id=pg1JAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA40&dq=anthony+irby&lr=#PPA42,M1
wjhonson
http://books.google.com/books?id=pg1JAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA44
Bingo. Big fat bingo.
Thank you "Mistress Audrey Mann"....
You have thrown a long light on a dim subject.
Will Johnson
wjhonson
William Tashe in his will, is not only telling us that Audrey Mann a
daughter of Beatrice Ogle is already married...
He.. is... putting... all of Beatrice's children in order.
Amazing.
wjhonson
that one, who in 1552 was one of the exors to the will of William
Tashe
and that "Ellen Welby" is his wife, and originally "Ellen OGLE"
daughter of Richard Ogle...
Can It All Work !?!?!?!
That's the magic question
Will Johnson
wjhonson
The will of Thomas Fleet (or Flete) dated 26 Apr 1560
finally gives us the name of the wife of the "Richard Welby of Gedney"
who was then living. Her name was Jane.
This is the son of that Richard Welby of Gedney who married Anne
Thimelby and some unknown Alice as his last wife.
Will Johnson
