Correction on Geoffrey de Bouogne Question
Nancy Hopkins
person I was citing. It's Frederick Weis, not Alison Weir. Wikipedia
cites Weis a lot as basis for medieval genealogy, but not Alison Weir.
I will check the wikipedia article that states that Geoffrey had no
issue and try to find the reference. I live in the boondocks which is
why I can't research this issue myself.
Here is the citation to the discussion of the issue in "Ancestral
Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America Before
1700" (8th Edition): Line 158A-23. The text was written by Prof. David
H. Kelley.
Prof. Kelley goes into great analysis about the confusion between the
names Godefroy, Gauzfrid, Goisfrid and Geoffrey. He goes on to say
that Geoffey de Boulogne married the daughter of Geoffrey de
Mandeville, Beatrice. They had one son, William of Boulogne (who he
notes was not the Count of Boulogne nor even born in Boulogne). Some
of the basis for his thinking that William was the son of Geoffrey de
Boulogne are references to William de Boulogne being descended from
Eustace de Boulogne, Geoffrey's father. William had a son, Faramus,
whose only heir was Sybil who married Enguerrand I de Fiennes,
bringing the line into the Fiennes family.
I am sorry I lead everyone down the garden path so to speak. I
appreciate your help and enjoy reading the answers posted here.
Peter Stewart
"Nancy Hopkins" <passer...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:665ee680-a119-408a...@a19g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
I'm not sure what is meant by "some of the basis for his [Kelley's] thinking
that William was the son of Geoffrey de Boulogne" - this is not a matter of
opinion but comes from a very reliable source and the genealogy of this
family was well established in the literature long before the 8th edition of
Weiss.
William's son Faramus stated the relationship in a charter for Le Bec abbey
("Faramus filius Willelmi de Bolonia ... Gaufridus filius comitis Eustacii
de Bolonia, avus meus, et Willelmus de Bolonia, filius ipsius, pater meus").
Faramus had a son named William who was dead by 1171 when Enguerrand de
Fiennes and his wife Sibilla, his own daughter were named by Faramus as his
heirs ("Ego Pharamus de Tingri ... laudantibus et alacriter concedentibus
... heredibus meis, Ingeranno de Fienles [sic] et uxore ejus Sibilla, filia
mea"). Enguerrand was killed at Ace in 1189, Sibilla was still living in
1219.
Peter Stewart
Kevin Bradford
The below article, published last year in The Daily Mail, makes an intriguing claim which is quite likely true: contemporary British peers are all related to one another.
In the insular world of medieval polity, no doubt that there is an admixture of shared lineage among these men:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1218628/Ten-dukes-dining-Gathered-lunch-unique-picture-grandees-2bn-340-000-acres-them.html
Can a common ancestor be found among all of these men? If so, who might their MRCA (most recent common ancestor) be? I can document a relation to most of these featured peers. David Manners (#2) shares a descent from the same Manners family who were among the ancestors of Capt. Philip Nelson of Rowley, Mass.
Cheers,Kevin BradfordPlantagenet Dynasty: Genealogy & Biographyhttp://plantagenetdynasty.blogspot.com/
Kevin Bradford
Leo,
Yes, that is what I am looking for. Do these men know with certainty that they are related, or are they simply making a presumption...is my question.
I will credit the discoverer of their common link(s) in an article in my blog.
Many thanks,Kevin
> From: can...@netspeed.com.au
> To: plantag...@hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: Ten Dukes a-Dining
> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 11:04:06 +1100
>
> Are you looking for one person who is an ancestor for all? Preferably the
> nearest? Interesting task. I will try.
> Leo
> > -------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> > GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>
John
> The below article, published last year in The Daily Mail, makes an intriguing claim which is quite likely true: contemporary British peers are all related to one another.
> Can a common ancestor be found among all of these men? If so, who might their MRCA (most recent common ancestor) be? I can document a relation to most of these featured peers. David Manners (#2) shares a descent from the same Manners family who were among the ancestors of Capt. Philip Nelson of Rowley, Mass.
> Cheers,Kevin BradfordPlantagenet Dynasty: Genealogy & Biographyhttp://plantagenetdynasty.blogspot.com/
Well, here's a start. The duke of Somerset is the only one of these
10 dukes (and the only one of all 24 non-royal dukes) who is NOT a
descendant of King Henry VII. The next earlier monarch who is an
ancestor of all 24 of the dukes (including Somerset) appears to be
Edward III. FWIW only 5 of the 10 dukes in question are descended
from James VI and I.
So, to find the most recent common ancestor, one approach would be to
study the ancestry of the Duke of Somerset and see which of his (non-
royal) ancestors appear in the ancestry of the other 9 dukes.
John
I should qualify the above statements somewhat. The Somerset dukedom
passed to a cousin in a junior line in the 19th century. Unlike the
more senior lines of the Seymour family, the line currently holding
the title does not appear (from the peerages, at least) to have
married wives from peerage or gentry families. But I haven't
investigated these marriages (and their ancestry) very closely, so
there are likely royal descents that I've missed here. Any additions
will be welcome....
the_ver...@comcast.net
> The below article, published last year in The Daily Mail, makes an intriguing claim which is quite likely true: contemporary British peers are all related to one another.
> Can a common ancestor be found among all of these men? If so, who might their MRCA (most recent common ancestor) be? I can document a relation to most of these featured peers. David Manners (#2) shares a descent from the same Manners family who were among the ancestors of Capt. Philip Nelson of Rowley, Mass.
> Cheers,Kevin BradfordPlantagenet Dynasty: Genealogy & Biographyhttp://plantagenetdynasty.blogspot.com/
There were posting about that story when it was first published and I
seem to remember someone mentioning a couple in the early 1400's or
so.
Nancy Hopkins
> "Nancy Hopkins" <passerineb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thank you, Sir, for your answer.
Nancy Hopkins
John
Yes, a posting in the "Peerage News" group said that 9 of the 10 dukes
in question were descended from Roger Wentworth (d. 1452) and his wife
Margaret Le Despencer (1397-1478). The exception among the 10 was the
current Duke of Wellington - although Wellington's grandson the Earl
of Mornington is descended from this couple (via his mother
presumably). I haven't verified this myself - Leo may have the data
to check this.
Christine Czarnecki
immigrant Henry Isham of "Bermuda Hundred," Henrico Co., VA. (Gary Boyd
Roberts, Ancestors of American Presidents, 2009 Ed.)
Isham is the 2nd great grandfather of Thomas Jefferson on his maternal line, and
ancestral to all the Randolph family from "Turkey Island."
William Randolph and his wife Mary Isham, daughter of Henry Isham, are
colorfully called "the Adam and Eve of Virginia," as they had nine children who
lived to adulthood, married and had children of their own.
________________________________
From: John <jhigg...@yahoo.com>
To: gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Sent: Tue, October 12, 2010 8:57:12 AM
Subject: Re: Ten Dukes a-Dining
On Oct 12, 12:59 am, "the_vermina...@comcast.net"
-------------------------------
wjhonson
wrote:
> Roger Wentworth and Margaret Le Despencer are also ancestors of the gateway
> immigrant Henry Isham of "Bermuda Hundred," Henrico Co., VA. (Gary Boyd
> Roberts, Ancestors of American Presidents, 2009 Ed.)
>
> Isham is the 2nd great grandfather of Thomas Jefferson on his maternal line, and
> ancestral to all the Randolph family from "Turkey Island."
>
> William Randolph and his wife Mary Isham, daughter of Henry Isham, are
> colorfully called "the Adam and Eve of Virginia," as they had nine children who
> lived to adulthood, married and had children of their own.
>
> ________________________________
> To: gen-medie...@rootsweb.com
I can make this shorter.
Nine of the ten dukes are descended from Richard Cecil.
So I win by at least 100 years.
http://knol.google.com/k/will-johnson/ten-dukes-a-dining/4hmquk6fx4gu/566#view
Still working on the tenth holdout if anyone wants to help.
Will
John
>
> Still working on the tenth holdout if anyone wants to help.
>
> Will
The current (19th) Duke of Somerset may or may not have a Cecil
descent, but it looks like his wife does - so at least his successor
will have the descent that Will is looking for.