Family of Heinrich Graf von Egisheim

[wjc]

Group,

Has anyone done any research, or come across any, that clarifies the
descent of the Counts of Egisheim?

Cawley

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ALSACE.htm#HeilwigDachsburgMAlbertMoha

and Schreiber

http://www.genealogie-mittelalter.de/egisheim_grafen_von/albrecht_1_graf_von_egisheim_dagsburg_1098/albrecht_1_graf_von_egisheim_dagsburg_+_1098.html

have two different interpretations.

Cawley shows the descent from Heinrich I as

1.0 "Heinrich [I]" died "28 Jun [before 1050]". Count of Egisheim and
Dagsburg. Wife unknown.
1.1 "Gerhard [II"] died "after 1098".Count in Nordgau, 1065; Count of
Egisheim, 1089. Wife: "Richarda"
1.1.1 "Heilwig" died "29 Jan before 1126. Heiress of Egisheim. Married
"[1080]" "Gerard de Lorraine Comte de Vaudemont" died "1108".
1.2 "Hugo [X] von Egisheim" died "5 sep 1089". Count of Dagsburg.
Married "Mathilde de Mousson" died "[28 Nov 1091/8 Mar 1105]".
1.3 "Bruno" died "1102". Archdeacon of Toul.
1.4 "Heilwig". Cawley states the proof that she was the daughter of
Heinrich [I] is "a charter dated 1137 under which "Hugo comes" donated
property to Kloster Lüders for the soul of "patris sui…Albertis
comitis et avunculi sui Brunonis archidiaconis Tullensis". [Source:
Vanderkindere II, p. 153, quoting Würdtween Nova Subsidia VII, 96,
quoted in Witte, H. 'Genealogische Untersuchungen zur Geschichte
Lothringens und des Westrich (II)', Jahrbuch der Gesellschaft für
lothringische Geschichte und Altertumskunde, VII.1, 1895 (Metz), p.
112.
Married 1.4A "Albert [II] [de Moha] son of Albert [I] de Moha" died
"24 Aug 1098".
1.4.1 "[Heinrich] Hugo [XI]" died "after 1137". Count of Egisheim.
Married "Gertrud [van Looz]". Although Cawley names him son of
Heilwig, in the more detailed article he is named son of "Ermesinde",
Heinrich's second wife.

1.4A "Albert [II] de [Moha]" married second, "Ermensinde de
Luxembourg" died "26 Jun 1141".
1.4A.1 "Mechtild" died "after 1157" married "Folmar [VII]" died
"1142". Count of Metz.
1.4A.2 "[daughter]. married "Aiulf".

Schreiber shows the descent from Heinrich [I] as

1.0 "Heinrich I" died "28.6.1063 28.6. nach 1061, vor 1064" Count of
Dagsburg. Married "N. N. Von Moha Tochter des Grafen Albert"
1.1 Gerhard (IV. ?).
1.2 "Hugo" died "5.9.1089".
1.3 "Albert I" died "24.8. um 1098". Count of Egisheim, Dagsburg, Metz
and Moha. Advocate of Altdorf Abbey. Married once, to "Eremesinde"
died "1143 24. XI".
1.3.1 "Hugo VII" died "um 1137".
1.3.2 "Mechtild von Egisheim"died "nach 1135". Married "Folmar II"
died "1142". Count in Bliesgau.
1.4 "Bruno".

Shreiber acknowledges that the prevailing view (that shared by Cawley)
is that Hugo was the son of the first marriage of Albrecht von Moha
and Dagsburg allegedly with a sister of the last count, Hugo VI.

However, he is of the opinion that Hugo VII (Crawley's [Heinrich] Hugo
[XI]) was the son of Albrecht by his second wife, Ermisinde. He
references a document where Hugo VIII, son of Hugo VII, calls
Ermisinde his grandmother. He also states that the descendants of Hugo
VII inherit honors that can only have come to them through Ermisinde.

He discounts the 1037 charter evidence, saying that avunculus was
frequently used in the paternal sense.

He concludes Albrecht was the brother of Hugo VI and Bruno, not their
brother-in-law.

Schreiber's sources: "H. Witte in the Jahrb. fur lothringische
Geschichte 7, 114f; Tihon, Les comtes de Moha (Instit. archeol.
liegeois 23, 431 f.) and Vanderkindere 2, 151f., Möller, Stammtafeln
2, 143".

Questions:

1. Who was the child of Heinrich I? Heilwig or Albert?

2. How did the honor of Moha come to the family? Heinrich's unknown
wife as Schreiber shows? Through Albert, as Cawley shows?

3. Was Albert married twice (Heilwig and Ermesinde) or just once, to
Ermesinde?

4. If twice, who was the mother of Hugo (d. 1137)? Hedwig or
Ermesinde?

I will appreciate any help in answering these questions and unraveling
this mystery.

Regards,

Bill Culverhouse

[marc.f...@gmail.com]

Hi,

Have you find some answers to your questions because I have actually the same about the origins of the castle of Longwy near Luxembourg.

Best regards,

Marc Feller

[Peter Stewart]

I'm not sure that Bill Culverhouse is still reading posts in the
newsgroup. His 2009 questions above are the result of an obsolete
reconstruction of this family (largely from the early 20th-century work
of Vanderkindere) persisting after it has been superseded -
Vanderkindere based his solution on literally interpreting a charter
that named Bruno, archdeacon of Toul (died before 6 Jun 1102) as the
'avunculus' of Albert's son Hugo VII. According to this interpretation,
Bruno, who was a son of Heinrich I, must have been a maternal uncle of
Hugo VII. However, Vanderkindere did not know of an earlier charter that
named Bruno as brother ('frater') of Albert. 'Avunculus' was very
frequently used to mean the same as 'patruus' (paternal uncle), whereas
'frater' was not at all commonly used for brother-in-law.

The answers, as cogently presented by Franz Legl in *Studien zur
Geschichte der Grafen von Dagsburg-Egisheim* (1998) are as follows:

1. Albert

2. Through Heinrich's unknown wife, who was a daughter and heiress of
Albert's namesake, lord of Moha.

3. Yes, Albert occurs in charters with both wives.

4. Ermesinde was the mother of Hugo's two recorded offspring, Hugo VII
and Mechtild.

Peter Stewart